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alharding
27-Jan-2011, 16:51
I'm looking for a shutter. or a wide lens with a shutter that will cover 8x10 and has a shutter speed that is faster than 1/125. I've been told that this may not be something I can find. I need to stop a fast moving object dead and this isn't happening even with a strobe a 1/125 although its close. Any suggestions on makes models of lenses/copal 3 shutters that have high shutter speeds. I'm sure this would be easier with a smaller format, but I'm committed to doing it in 8x10.

Thanks,

Al Harding

Gem Singer
27-Jan-2011, 17:08
Two lenses that I have owned:

The Nikon/Nikkor f8 120SW will barely cover 8x10, is mounted in a Copal 0 shutter with a top speed of 1/500 sec.

The Nikon/Nikkor f8 150SW will easily cover 8x10, is mounted in a Copal 1 shutter with a top speed of 1/400 sec.

There are many other focal length lenses mounted in Copal 0 or Copal 1 shutters that will cover 8x10.

John Kasaian
27-Jan-2011, 17:19
How about a 240mm G Claron in a Copal 1? Or a 300mm Nikon M?

engl
27-Jan-2011, 17:48
If you are shooting with flash, the most important thing for freezing movement is the flash duration. There is no difference between a flash-lit shot at 1/125 and 1/500 if the flash duration is 1/1000 (presuming the ambient light is too low to matter).

Gem Singer
27-Jan-2011, 17:48
The OP mentioned that he is looking for a wide angle lens.

Google, "High speed flash photography", for info on how to do it with a strobe.

ic-racer
27-Jan-2011, 18:21
A number of lenses in Copal 1 (1/400) will cover 8x10. Fujinon 250 comes to mind but there are many, many others. Do you need movements? If not then there are perhaps a hundred lenses in Copal 1 that could be used.

Smaller format won't make much difference. 35mm SLR 1/60 to 1/250, MF 1/500 usually.

Maybe you need to work on controlling ambient light or get higher power, shorter duration, flash units.

Two23
27-Jan-2011, 18:27
I shoot fast moving objects all the time. I do it at night. Shutter speed doesn't matter a whole lot. My flash has a "shutter speed" of about 1/1000 sec. Is that going to be fast enough?


Kent in SD

Brian C. Miller
28-Jan-2011, 03:20
Al, you need to look at your flash unit's duration. IIRC my Speedotron has a duration of 1/300s, while a Vivitar 285 has a duration of at most 1/1000th/sec.

Vivitar 285 (http://www.vivitar.com/products/9/flashes-and-accessories/172/285-hv)
Flash Duration (Auto) 1/1000 - 1/30000sec
Flash Duration (Manual) 1/1000sec

Of course, the Speedotron puts out a lot more light. There are also flashes developed for high-output, short-duration bursts. They are expensive, but you might be able to rent something.

Two23
28-Jan-2011, 07:08
Of course, the Speedotron puts out a lot more light. There are also flashes developed for high-output, short-duration bursts. They are expensive, but you might be able to rent something.

THere is a new monolight out by Paul Buff. It has something like 1/1000s duration at half power. The duration gets shorter as you cut power. It starts with 640ws, which is quite a bit. The monolight is called Einstein.

http://www.paulcbuff.com/pcb2009/einstein.html

I just bought one of these. Very, very light!
http://www.white-lightning.com/vmini.html


Kent in SD

Jim Galli
28-Jan-2011, 07:24
Duration with strobes can be so short that I believe Kodak was the first to offer reciprocity failure information for too fast of an exposure duration. I doubt you'll get what you want with an 8X10 or a shutter. More details might help.

Bob Salomon
28-Jan-2011, 07:37
Compur 3 went to 1/200, Compur 1 went to 1/500, Rollei Linear Motor 1 shutter goes to 1/300. Just find lenses that fit any of these shutters that cover the area that you want. Then, if necessary, get the shutter and have the lens installed in it. Note: Compur and Prontor are long out of production, Rollei shutter is extremely expensive as is its required controller and needed accessories.

rjmeyer314
28-Jan-2011, 08:00
I have a Graflex 8x10 focal plane shutter that will do up to 1/1000 second. These are obviously not made anymore since Graflex folded. They do come up from time to time on Ebay. They won't fit just any camera, they were usually made to fit specific model cameras. The one I have will fit my Century Universal, but won't fit my Seneca Competitor, or my Calumet C1.

alharding
28-Jan-2011, 11:12
These are all great suggestions. Thanks guys. I'll try to track down a Copal 1 shutter/ lens and try some other strobe speeds this weekend. Thanks to all for the comments.

Al Harding

Bob Salomon
28-Jan-2011, 11:13
I have a Graflex 8x10 focal plane shutter that will do up to 1/1000 second. These are obviously not made anymore since Graflex folded. They do come up from time to time on Ebay. They won't fit just any camera, they were usually made to fit specific model cameras. The one I have will fit my Century Universal, but won't fit my Seneca Competitor, or my Calumet C1.

But what shutter speed for X synch with electronic flash when using that shutter?

Bob McCarthy
28-Jan-2011, 11:25
I'm looking for a shutter. or a wide lens with a shutter that will cover 8x10 and has a shutter speed that is faster than 1/125. I've been told that this may not be something I can find. I need to stop a fast moving object dead and this isn't happening even with a strobe a 1/125 although its close. Any suggestions on makes models of lenses/copal 3 shutters that have high shutter speeds. I'm sure this would be easier with a smaller format, but I'm committed to doing it in 8x10.

Thanks,

Al Harding

Al if you want to stop the motion, remove all ambient light by stopping the lens way down and use strobe to light the object. Strobe-lights fire for really short durations and freeze objects. Thats been discussed above.

With a leaf shutter this is a simple issue as X sync works at any f stop or shutter speed. Just kill any ambient light by stopping down, not necessarily faster shutter.

Can you work in a low light enviornment to make that easy? The key is to work in low levels of ambient light.

bob

Drew Wiley
28-Jan-2011, 11:33
The fastest speeds on leaf shutters are almost always way off. Copals are generally
very bad at the top two marked speeds. I've owned a couple of Compurs that were
spot on every speed, but an electronic shutter might be better. Of course, going strobe is an even better idea if the subject matter warrants it.

Bob Salomon
28-Jan-2011, 11:40
The fastest speeds on leaf shutters are almost always way off. Copals are generally
very bad at the top two marked speeds. I've owned a couple of Compurs that were
spot on every speed, but an electronic shutter might be better. Of course, going strobe is an even better idea if the subject matter warrants it.

A shutter is at the correct speed if it is 30% of that speed.

IanG
28-Jan-2011, 12:11
I have a Graflex 8x10 focal plane shutter that will do up to 1/1000 second. These are obviously not made anymore since Graflex folded. They do come up from time to time on Ebay. They won't fit just any camera, they were usually made to fit specific model cameras. The one I have will fit my Century Universal, but won't fit my Seneca Competitor, or my Calumet C1.

There were far more Thornton Pickard focal plane shutters made, and for longer (from 1893), these were made to be adapted to many 10x8 camera backs, had a 1/1000th top speed, but a s Bob say, flash synch would be when the shutter slit was full frame and that would be a lowish shutter speed. If you could rig up flash sync it would be around 1/25th, maybe less :D

TP shutters were sold by Burke & James in the US, often with their nameplate on them.

Ian

John Koehrer
28-Jan-2011, 17:58
Darkened room, shutter at B or T and electronic flash. If you can get the light close enough tho the subject 1/5,000, 1/10,000 should be possible

Ivan J. Eberle
28-Jan-2011, 18:33
Short duration flash may not provide sufficient illumination for 8x10 stopped down far enough to exclude blurring from ambient light, at least not without a that faster shutter. Ganging multiple sync'd flash heads and using very slow emulsions may help.

Ben Syverson
28-Jan-2011, 19:45
Blurring from ambient light should not be a problem at 1/400, even if you're shooting people outside doing jumping jacks... Certainly it would never be an issue in a darkened studio.

Dan Fromm
29-Jan-2011, 07:15
Short duration flash may not provide sufficient illumination for 8x10 stopped down far enough to exclude blurring from ambient light, at least not without a that faster shutter. Ganging multiple sync'd flash heads and using very slow emulsions may help.Ivan, it depends on the film speed, shutter speed, and aperture used.

I used to shoot flowers and the like using KM and small flashes close to the subject. Typical effective aperture was f/22 or f/32, rarely f/45. All too small, but at 1/125 or 1/250 ghosting from ambient wasn't much of a problem. By sunny 16, in the worst case ambient would require 1/25 at f/16 and the shutter speeds I used saved me.

Now I'm stuck with ISO 100 E6, for which sunny 16 wants 1/100 at f/16. Effective f/22 at 1/250 is almost safe. Almost.

In this situation ND filters on the lens would save me but don't appeal.

When I shoot small subject outside with a Graphic, the shutter used allows 1/400 and ambient isn't too much of a problem at effective f/16. Not a problem at all under cover, so I think I'm going to have to start carrying a nice dense black umbrella to make a shadow when one is needed.

I also used to shoot fish in aquaria -- mainly home tanks -- with KM and flash at f/16 or smaller and 1/125 or 1/250. For practical purposes -- I tested inadvertently whenever the flashes didn't fire -- in that situation ambient gives no exposure.

Point is, it isn't hard to completely overpower ambient with flash if an easily attainable shutter speed is used. 1/400 will do for ISO 100 and f/22 in broad daylight, will be just fine with a larger aperture in dimmer light.

Cheers,

Dan