Last Minute Prep For Platinum - Kind of Strange Question

[Fragomeni]

Ok, I'll be printing some Platinum and Palladium prints this weekend. I have some negatives that I like which print very well in silver and I would be unable to go and re-photograph the scenes to get negatives with greater density for Platinum and Palladium. I haven't really fully thought this through yet but the idea came up and since I have to go run errands I figured maybe someone can answer this while I'm out and same me some time and brain power. Can I print new negatives from these, i.e. reversal process to produce paper negatives, and print them with greater density through exposure. I'll try to explain that a little clearer. I know that I can make a new/enlarged paper negative from a film negative quite easily i.e. print a positive print, oil the print (oiling isn't entirely necessary but I find it produces shorter exposure times and less grain do to paper fibers), contact print the positive to a new negative. My question is, would it be as simple as just printing the new paper negative one stop over exposed to get the the greater density? Thanks in advance for your help!

[cowanw]

I think you are over worrying about the density. That's what the change of contrasts with combinations of drops (or whatever variation you are using) is for. do a few small squares of Plat/pall of the subject of interest with the stouffer step tablet if possible and learn by doing. I think you will get it fast.
Regards
Bill

[Vaughn]

I think you would be sacificing the tonal range of the film for the shorter range of the photopaper. Seems to be a waste of expensive platinum!

It is not density itself that is important, but instead it is contrast you are wanting. Find some negatives that accidently got too much development or just have a large range of values on them...negs that need a 1 or 1.5 contrast filter (or lower!) to print in silver.

Another possibility is to selenium tone a neg (1:3 or thereabouts) to increase contrast.

Or find an over-exposed negative and bleach it until the darkest shadow areas start to clear -- you can even selenium tone the neg after bleaching! That'll bump contrast!

[Fragomeni]

I think you are over worrying about the density. That's what the change of contrasts with combinations of drops (or whatever variation you are using) is for. do a few small squares of Plat/pall of the subject of interest with the stouffer step tablet if possible and learn by doing. I think you will get it fast.

I think you're right. I ended up speaking to a friend who works exclusively in pt now and she explained that exposing a denser neg isn't entirely necessary and not to worry too much about it. I was under an all-or-nothing assumption that without extra density it wouldn't work at all. She referenced some of her prints that were made from normal density negs that look no different from negs made with extra density.


I think you would be sacificing the tonal range of the film for the shorter range of the photopaper. Seems to be a waste of expensive platinum!
Very good point. I hadn't really considered the difference in tonal range with this idea. Making paper negatives from prints and for enlarging film negs works when very well when printing to silver because you're using silver paper and printing to silver paper so regardless of what you do you are inside of the tonal range of the printing material because they are the same. You're correct that to print pt from a paper neg would limit the pt print to the tonal range of the paper, however, this wouldn't necessarily "limit" the final print. After all pt printing was for a very long time practiced with paper negs and some of the most beautiful pt prints from history were printed from paper negs with an even more limited tonal range then today's silver papers. Just a little devil's advocate but either way you're right about the tonal range difference. I'm just going to go ahead and take the simple route and make a copy neg.

Thank you everyone for the help :)

[Fragomeni]

Quick question, I've looked around but can't find a clear answer to this. I've heard both positions that a dense (bullet-proof) neg is need and not needed for pt/pl. I'll come to my own conclusion on that but will someone please explain the best way to go about exposing a neg for pt/pl? Is it simply a matter of overexposing a scene by 1 stop and then developing as normal so you get the denser neg? A simple explanation will be very much appreciated. Thank you.

[cowanw]

You keep talking about density. You want a more contrasty negative. Start with normal exposure and develop longer. Or take a picture of a contraty subject and develop normally.
Regards
Bill

[D. Bryant]

Quick question, I've looked around but can't find a clear answer to this. I've heard both positions that a dense (bullet-proof) neg is need and not needed for pt/pl. I'll come to my own conclusion on that but will someone please explain the best way to go about exposing a neg for pt/pl? Is it simply a matter of overexposing a scene by 1 stop and then developing as normal so you get the denser neg? A simple explanation will be very much appreciated. Thank you.

A simple explanation: Expose "normally", over develop 30 to 50% (to be determined empirically). Scene brightness range is more or less irrelevant. IOW, a flat or contrasty scene doesn't matter, though it will effect development.


You really need to do some research about the topic. I can tell by the questions you are asking that you knowledge of the subject needs expanding to make your attempts practical.

Don Bryant

[cowanw]

If your brain is anything like mine, you will benefit doing a few now, even if they might be described as wasted. It took me a few practical examples to really understand the books. The stouffer test strip with the print was a big help to learn both exposure of the print and contrast mixtures. Have at it.
Regards
Bill

[AF-ULF]

Giving the negative one stop more exposure will give you a more dense negative, which only leads to longer printing times. A print that should take 8 minutes under the light box will require 16 minutes. But the image will not be better.

I actually give my platinum prints less exposure than when shooting for silver. I use the same film for silver and platinum. I rate my Tri-X at 200 for silver and 320 for platinum. Silver gets developed for 9 minutes in D-76 at 1+1. The platinum negative gets 9.5 minutes in D-76 1+0. (Jobo processing at 21 degrees.)

As cowanw points out above, the key is not a more dense negative, but a negative with a wider density range. Silver papers (grade two) have an exposure scale of 1.0 to 1.1. Most platinum prints are in the 1.8 range. You get the range by developing the negative longer, not giving it more exposure.

[Fragomeni]

You keep talking about density. You want a more contrasty negative. Start with normal exposure and develop longer. Or take a picture of a contraty subject and develop normally.
I was basing my questions off the the somewhat generally accepted standard that a pt/pl neg needs overall greater density then a silver neg. I do see what you're saying though.


A simple explanation: Expose "normally", over develop 30 to 50% (to be determined empirically). Scene brightness range is more or less irrelevant. IOW, a flat or contrasty scene doesn't matter, though it will effect development.


You really need to do some research about the topic. I can tell by the questions you are asking that you knowledge of the subject needs expanding to make your attempts practical.
I just spent an hour on the phone with one of the best Platinum print I've met and we explained to me the normal exposure and over develop concept which he learned from Dick Arentz. This was the answer I was looking for I suppose. I definite protocol for producing the proper neg. I'm attending a pt/pl workshop this weekend so we'll go into it further.


As cowanw points out above, the key is not a more dense negative, but a negative with a wider density range. Silver papers (grade two) have an exposure scale of 1.0 to 1.1. Most platinum prints are in the 1.8 range. You get the range by developing the negative longer, not giving it more exposure.
This is where I was confused. Density vs density range and how to accomplish that. Thanks all for your help. Very much appreciated as usual.

[peter schrager]

I mostly use pyrocat-mc but I have even made nice TMY2 negs for plat with xtol 1:2 around 18 minutes...works just fine and this is about 40% over my normal dev time which is 13:20(all at 68 degrees) semi developed in a tray...please make some negs and then come back here
buy the Arentz book..worth its weight in platinum
Best, Peter

[Cor]

Probably to late, and common wisdom anyway..If you process in a Pyro developer you'll obtain a negative (when processed correctly, guess how I know..;-)..), which will print fine on siver gelatine, VC 2-3 and as a platinum print, because the stain is added density (proportional to the silver density!) under UV.

If you over develop with Pyro you can try to print on graded silver gelatine paper, it will bring back punch..

(I shot some snow scenes in the mist, boy talking about lack of contrast, both the sky and the snow functioned as a huge softbox, filling up ever thing with bounced light I realised later..I did apply a N+1 development, hence a very strong stain, but little density range)

You can bleach your negative and re-develop in Pyro..

Have fun,

best,

Cor