Question about old camera

[Martin Miksch]

50143
is this black frame a camera back without GG or just the rear frame of the bellows.
Thanks and Kind Regards
Martin

[Steven Tribe]

I think it probably is the back. It looks like an adaptor insert frame BUT it has rounded insert corners which look made for a corner cut ground glass. Finding plate holders that slide down will not be easy! Looks like it only has the portrait view available.

[Martin Miksch]

Thanks for your answer.
One plate holder lays down there, it can be attached to the back.
I know this camera only from pics, some pics show the holder attached.
So you think that black frame can be removed and the plate holder can slip in instead?
Thanks and Kind Regards
Martin

[Steven Tribe]

It looks like a special purpose camera - a photo of the front might help (are there any front standard movements?).
Doesn't the back remove upwards? There are 2 tabs built into the box frame on both sides and it looks like the back rests in a slot at the bottom.

[Martin Miksch]

soon I will know more, got it. (http://cgi.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220725476485#ht_1099wt_1136)

[Fourtoes]

Well done, I was watching that. Keep us up to date wit your progress with it.

[Martin Miksch]

Yup,
first I have to look for a lense,
what I found a Symmar 360/5.6 will cover and seems to be the cheapest way.

[Steven Tribe]

Well the seller's description was very accurate:

"Das Format geht bis 30x40 cm die Opalglas oder Mattscheibe fehlt leider".

The Plate/film holder matches the ground glass in design. There is a member in Norway who knows more about these 30x40cm types.
A very special type reisekamera - made to travel well - but a PITA to set up. How is the tripod mounting solved - or does it have to be placed on a board/board?

[Martin Miksch]

I just know it from the pics on that auction site, hope to get it soon.
Because of the very "portable" design I hope it will not need a board/board.
What I dont see is some gear to focus, hope it has.

[Robert Hughes]

Because of the very "portable" design...
Heh. I remember, years ago, seeing some old military "portable" electronics. I guess that "portable" in those days meant you could bolt wheels to the frame and roll it around...

[Steven Tribe]

Now I have had a look through the excellent photos at my leisure, I have come to the conclusion that this is a copying camera/horizontal enlarger.
There are no front movements on the standard mounted with a small lens and the fact that an additional bellows and additional front standard can be mounted in front of the lens standard is conclusive for me.
I have a similar "apparatus" designed for enlarging 4.5x6cm negative plates to a selection of papir sizes. In the middle of a sliding box sytem, there is a small lens mounted centrally. Yours is just a "super size" system with bellows instead of a moveable box system. The plate to be copied/enlarged is placed at the small end and illuminated by sunlight. The small lens produces an image on the rear ground glass, the distance is adjusted for framing and focus and the ground glass is replaced by the film holder (which could also have papir in it).
It could form the basis for a impressive reisekamera if the "middle standard" is well built and can manage heavier lenses.

The sellers description was very misleading, but quite understandable. He did show the correct mounting in one of the photos.

[Martin Miksch]

Thanks for your explanations,
the front bellows seems to me to be used for copywork too,
but without it its a nice camera^^
My idea is that I can rework the front bellow thing to attach my sinar shutter, I hope to get the baby soon to see what to do.
It seems to have front shift, and what I know about this old cameras they mostly dont have more movements.
Btw as european I find tilt not that important, here are not that american deserts and tilt I only tried once on my first landscape, all the trees in the foreground got very unsharp tops.^^
Now I shoot 5x7 with old wooden field cameras, they dont have front tilt, just some rear tilt, and I never missed it.

[Steven Tribe]

It is a splendid piece of lightweight, but solid, joinery in quite fantastic condition. I am sure the front standard will manage all your requirements. The front metal braces will give very good stability.
I am a little nervous about how the two halves of the base are joined together. I fear it is a sliding box system. This would make the use of a tripod system very difficult. You might get an idea from looking at the "table top" Century stand system - only use lightweight long "table" that has threads that accepts a tripod screw.
It looks like it is a single plate/film holder so you will not have enormous costs for negative film!

[Martin Miksch]

My thoughts about the two halfes sliding system have been similar, thanks for pointing me to the Century stand.
I see the camera like it is shown on pic 3 from that bay description and hope the use a 360mm lens will keep me without much sliding, alltogether its 52 cm long and the lense will (maybe ) in front of the lensboard. If that works it will be a more easy fix to attach some kind of tripod plate or whatever.
I live here at the very countryside, has some disadvantages, but one of the finer things here is that we have real carpenters to make some fixes and maybe build another plate holder. It will not be that difficult to copy the existing.
I dont know about film, my first idea was to use wet plate,

[Steven Tribe]

This is what the Century table looks like. The table is covered in cloth to allow movement but also some friction. Note the safety wood strip! The size is 44x70cm. The width between the Century uprights is 51cms. This is a solid wood design, but a suitably framed style with plywood top could match your camera style better. There would have to be a rigid section underneath for the matching face on the tripod.
Keep us up-to-date with the project as it progresses!

[Martin Miksch]

Thank you

[Steven Tribe]

Alb. Gloch & Cie, Karlsruhe was a very well established photo-supplier. There is a casket set on e**y sold by him which might be suitable - 2905270247! At least the single lenses.

[Martin Miksch]

Steven, sorry, I missed this bay- link,
got the camera now, which is, as you mentioned above, an enlarger,
I try to include some pics, showing:
that there is a 3/8 screw in for a tripoid, the back moves,
it came with inserts for the negatives, and a paper about negativsizes and papersizes, the sliding mechanism is just wood,
there is a very simple lens with 2 apertures to switch
and overall condition is very good, the pic shows the only small damage.
http://www.bitterechtfreundlich.info/30x40/_30X40_1.jpg
http://www.bitterechtfreundlich.info/30x40/_30X40_2.jpg
http://www.bitterechtfreundlich.info/30x40/_30X40_3.jpg

[Martin Miksch]

http://www.bitterechtfreundlich.info/30x40/_30X40_4.jpghttp://www.bitterechtfreundlich.info/30x40/_30X40_5.jpg

Need some ideas about the wooden slidings, they are not very smooth, so something is needed, oil isnt that good on wood, maybe soap?

[d.s.]

Go to your local hardware store and get a little block of bee's wax and rub it on the contact surfaces. Don't rub or press hard enough to see pieces of wax on the wood though. You can use a hot knife to slice the wax to a dimension that will fit into groves or tight places. Just rub the pieces that rub together with the wax a few times and Bob's your uncle, they slide like they're slick.
Great for old wooden drawers too. I've used it on metal parts with success also.

[Martin Miksch]

made some advance with this project, thanks to the idea of Stevens I made kind of camera plate after some tries with using the original tripod screw. Its much more stable now and I use the original tripod screw place to attach my foccussing device; now I can focus from behind the camera and it runs smooth.
On the front side I attached my Sinar shutter.
I found a thing called "lighthouse print film", technically its a paper but transparent, I can use paper chemistry but it looks like film and I can make contact copies.
The last image shows my first shot, its a little underexposed, I shot slides most the time and have to adapt my metering.^^