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View Full Version : 4X5 OR 8X10 is the question?



ataim
11-Jan-2011, 17:02
I currently have a Wista 4X5 with ten film holders, two lens, Schneider Super Angulon 90mm f8 and a Schneider 180mm f5.6.

I just bought for a good price a Calumet C-1 8x10 with 11 film holders three Polaroid holders and two lens, Caltar Pro 240mm 5.6 MC and Schneider Xenar 300mm 5.6. The Calumet it the Green one and does have some rough areas where the magnesium has corroded.

I mostly shoot landscapes and nature. I do a fair amount of hiking, so weight is a concern, but the Wista is not light. The Calumet is heavier. I have an Epson 7600 that takes 24" roll paper so the maximum that I normally enlarge to is 24x36, but larger could be possible with a 8x10.

My two options appear to be:

One: I could sell everything, keep the 8x10 lens and holders and buy an OK wooden field camera for them. I would probably be out a little cash.

or

Two: sell all of the 8x10 stuff and and the Wista and buy a really nice 4x5 Wista Zone VI or Tachihara wooden field camera and have maybe some cash to buy film.


I can only keep one camera so what would you do.

Ed Richards
11-Jan-2011, 17:12
If you think you might want to try 8x10 - otherwise why did you buy it - just start shooting with what you have. Shoot a 100 sheets of 8x10. If love it, then option 1. If you hate it, option 2. But selling everything to buy a better camera before you know if you want to do it seems inefficient to me.

Kevin Bradbury
11-Jan-2011, 17:18
I agree - use what you have for a while and then decide. You might decide to keep both formats or may go with one or the other. And larger than 24x36 should be possible with 4x5, btw.

ataim
11-Jan-2011, 17:20
otherwise why did you buy it

I bought the 8x10 stuff for close to a steal,


Shoot a 100 sheets of 8x10. If love it, then option 1.

That's a good idea, I might do that first. Did not even think about that.



But selling everything to buy a better camera before you know if you want to do it seems inefficient to me.

The Wista is a mono rail and I'd sell it to get lighter. Also I don't know if I could easly lug around the extra weight of the metal 8x10, plus film holders and lens. But if I lost the extra 20 pounds that around my belly, well I think I could carry it:) :mad:

ataim
11-Jan-2011, 17:23
And larger than 24x36 should be possible with 4x5, btw.

I agree, but with 8x10 you could twice as large with the same ppi scan :eek:

Noah A
11-Jan-2011, 18:56
Since you already have the camera, lens and holders there's no harm in trying a few boxes of 8x10 film.

I tried 8x10 for a while and found it to be a bit too big and too expensive since I shoot color. I drum scan my 4x5 negs and have no problems printing to 40x50in. or bigger. Sure, 8x10 is beautiful. But only if it suits your style of shooting.

I tried a Canham JMC 8x10 then an Arca Swiss F-Metric. But I eventually ditched the 8x10 gear and went back to smaller formats. Now I've settled in quite nicely with 4x5.

If you stick with 4x5 you might consider one of the Wista metal field cameras. I use the 45VX and it's great. It's not a super-lightweight, but it's very compact and tough and it will fold with a 150mm lens mounted.

If you go 8x10 then a wood camera does make sense since it's the only thing that will be even remotely lightweight (other than the pricey Canham or Arca I mentioned).

Anyway, as others have said since you have the gear you might as well at least try the 8x10. I'm sure you'll find that the negs/chromes are amazing, but after you've tried both formats think about which suits your needs better in the long run.

jeroldharter
11-Jan-2011, 19:16
I agree to try the 8x10 and see if you like it. However, using the big Calumet camera might not offer the equivalent experience of a newer camera.

If you go the 8x10 route, consider a Wehman camera. I have one and think it is great. You could get an inexpensive 4x5 reduction back (or 5x7) and have the use of both formats.

Filmnut
11-Jan-2011, 19:17
I have used 4X5 for many years, and as I like to hike and such with it, so I don't think that I would ever go to anything bigger for my personal use. I've shot 8X10 in a studio and copy setting, and there is something lovely about the bigger format, especially chromes, though there're very costly.
I'll add to the chorus, and say that since you've got a working 8X10 system, give it a try, even if you have to use some bargain B&W film so you can afford to give it a try!
If you know how (or learn) to do your own B&W processing, then you can do your own film, and then make contact prints without much extra trouble, or cost.
Keith

Vaughn
11-Jan-2011, 20:41
With an 8x10 and using a modified darkslide to get two 4x10 negs per 8x10 sheet, would a 4x10 neg go up nicely to a 24"x60" print? While I do not print digitally, it looks like inkjet printers using rolls of paper would do very well with panoramic work.

It is too bad you can not keep the simple 4x5 system and have your pudding, too. After much experience with the 8x10, going back to the 4x5 would seem so fun and light. Sort of like pounding your head on the wall because it feels so good to stop -- but you will build yourself up with the 8x10! My 8x10 pack weights about 45 pounds (5 to 8 holders, several lenses, Zone VI 8x10), plus a 15 pound tripod. I recently got an Eastman View No.2 5x7. I carried that camera (with a 210mm and on a pod) over my shoulder thru the redwoods and it seemed like nothing...well, I was a bit tired after 5 or so miles that afternoon.

In fact, that would be my recommendation -- just stick with what you have now. Carry the 8x10 when and as far as you feel up to it. Save the 4x5 for the times you want to hit the trail. After some experience with the 8x10 format, you can decide on which format is worth up-grading.

John Kasaian
11-Jan-2011, 21:36
I would sell it all except for the 4x5 holders and 240 Caltar and get a 5x7 Nagaoka with an extra 4x5 back & lots of 5x7 holders. These are very light wieght & imho ideal for back packing---use the 4x5 back for chromes and the 5x7 for B&W, providing you can even find a 5x7 Nagaoka.

I agree the green monster is really a studio camera. Everything about 8x10 is bigger and heavier--even an 8x10 woody in the field takes a bit of effort---I can't imagine carting a green monster afield unless maybe you afix a 1/4-20 to a jeep.

Rayt
12-Jan-2011, 02:58
What kind of film do you like to shoot and is it available in 8x10. I got into 8x10 late and never shot a single sheet of TMY when it was discontinued.

eddie
12-Jan-2011, 05:21
why are you not able to keep both?

sell six 8x10 holders and the 240 lens. this will loosen up some cash.

keep em both.

Ken Lee
12-Jan-2011, 06:10
8x10 is not just 4x5 with four times more detail.

The lenses are different, and thus the look is often different.

Equivalent lenses being twice as long, they need to be stopped down 2 more stops to get the same depth of field. This means exposures that are 4 times longer - or images with shallow depth of field.

Depending on your subject and your aesthetic preference - these differences may or may not matter.

rjmeyer314
12-Jan-2011, 07:12
There are actually a whole set of issues that probably go into the decision that haven't been touched on. Do you intend to just do contact prints or scans in both formats, or do you intend to enlarge? If you enlarge, do you have the space for an 8x10 enlarger, or only for a 4x5 enlarger? Do you use a community darkroom, because they seem to be going away.

jp
12-Jan-2011, 07:26
If you end up liking 8x10 images and workflow, but can't hike a heavy metal camera, keep an eye out for future camera options. Attend an event or workshop where different 8x10 cameras are in use. I have done that and decided if I hiked a lot I'd pick the 4x5 camera that day, lose some belly and keep my B&J 8x10, or get a deardorff 8x10 that folds up nice and compact.

ataim
12-Jan-2011, 07:46
why are you not able to keep both?
sell six X holders and the 240 lens. this will loosen up some cash.
keep em both.

After doing some additional looking last night, I could sell a few of the holders and the 240 lens and break even for what I paid for the whole set. And keep them both. Then as Vaughn said...



In fact, that would be my recommendation -- just stick with what you have now. Carry the X when and as far as you feel up to it. Save the X for the times you want to hit the trail. After some experience with the X format, you can decide on which format is worth up-grading.

Pack the X on short hauls and keep the X for longer treks.


What kind of film do you like to shoot and is it available in X. I got into X late and never shot a single sheet of TMY when it was discontinued.

Rayt, I normally shoot color transparencies, but would like to do more B&W. The 8X10 color would cost around 10-12 bucks after processing.


Do you intend to just do contact prints or scans in both formats, or do you intend to enlarge? If you enlarge, do you have the space for an X enlarger, or only for a X enlarger? Do you use a community darkroom, because they seem to be going away.

I would scan both formats. I do not have the room for an enlarger, But I'm enrolled in Community College for photography, mostly for the dark room access and experience. Darn at my age does that make me a Jeff Winger wannabe?


I have not looked, but will the other lens that I have also work on the X, assuming that I have the correct lens boards?

John Bowen
12-Jan-2011, 08:57
From my personal experience....

Started with 4x5. Shot 4x5 exclusively for almost 10 years. Purchased an 8x10 about 5 years ago. I just love the big camera! I still have the 4x5, but it is only used where a long trek is involved or an occasional architectural pic. Over the past 5 years, over 99% of my LF negatives have been made with an 8x10 (or larger) camera.

Having said that, 8x10 is MUCH more expensive than 4x5.

Peter Gomena
12-Jan-2011, 10:20
I'd take Ed's advice from earlier in the thread. My infatuation with 8x10 lasted for about 100 sheets of film. That's enough for you to figure out if the format is for you.

Everything about 8x10 is four times bigger (and heavier) than 4x5, and the image quality may or may not be four times better. I found the number of potential screw-ups multiplied with the format size, and my "keeper" rate was much lower than with smaller formats.

I sold my camera, then ended up buying a whole-plate size camera about 10 years later, and still use 4x5 and 5x7. I'm in a little different place with my work now, and I don't regret selling my big camera. If you decide you don't like it, there's a buyer out there. Obviously, there's a lot of folks that dig the big cameras. You got a deal, feed it 100 sheets and decide for yourself. There's nothing like a print, or a scan, made from a good big negative.

Peter Gomena

squiress
12-Jan-2011, 13:16
I'm another Wehman guy and think this is a great option for going to the larger format should you dump everything and start fresh with 8x10. Camera is lightweight and durable. However with bellows fully extended there is a lot of sail area and a stout tripod and mount are necessary. None of that lends itself to lugging around except for short hikes, even with a lightweight camera. My 4x5 is a Toyo AX and I find advantages to each, but the 4x5 is probably a better all around camera. That said there is something about working with 8x10 that seems a lot more fun to me albeit more expensive for sure every time you release the shutter.

Shoot a bit with the 8x10 before making any decisions. I would especially try and use it where you've had good success with the 4x5 and see what differences you can discover while under the hood.

Robert Hughes
12-Jan-2011, 13:40
That's interesting, I thought 4x5 or 8x10 was the answer.

What was the question? "Contact print or enlarger," perhaps?

Drew Wiley
12-Jan-2011, 13:45
4X5 and 8x10 really cultivate a slightly different way of seeing things. You need to spend a fair amount of time with a given format to get used to it enough to recognize
the distinction. I use both, but for technical reasons and personal satisfaction the
8x10 really wins out. 4x5 is obviously much cheaper to shoot, more portable, and
easier to find film for. Depends on your style too. If you're a machine-gunner making
twenty shots a day, 8x10 will put you in the poorhouse fast; so the nature of the game is that if you do choose the large camera, you will almost automatically be more
careful with your choice of compositions, and shoot less film overall - so end up spending about the same.

William McEwen
13-Jan-2011, 15:39
Ataim, I agree with those who say it's too early to decide -- you've got to spend some time shooting with the 8x10.

I used a terrific 4x5 Sinar for five years, then traded it (and other stuff) for an 8x10. During the first months, I sometimes thought, "What have I done?" But with the 4x5 gone, I didn't have a choice to revert back to the 4x5. I'm glad I didn't have a choice.

I've been shooting 8x10 for 21 years now. I still have nostalgic feelings for that 4x5 Sinar and those 4x5 negatives, but I prefer 8x10.

ataim
14-Jan-2011, 07:42
Thanks to all for the advise. I've got some both B&W and slides coming in the mail. I'll run at least 50 sheets before I make a final decision. I'm new to LF (about 150 sheets) so I still make some mistakes, and with a 4x5 the $$$ loss is not as great. But as Drew said, I WILL take more time with a 5 to 12 dollar sheet of film in the holder.

John Kasaian
14-Jan-2011, 09:23
I'm kind of in the same situation. So far I have survived a lengthly spell of unemployment and I'm still shooting 8x10---not as much 8x10 of course, but I enjoy the format the most so I've become very selective of my exposures---and over the long haul this works out to be a good thing, I think. It has taught me a lot about having confidence in my vision a well as my skills.
I can see myself shooting more 5x7 in the future though.

alharding
17-Jan-2011, 10:37
I would sell both and consider getting a lightweight 8x10. I have the Shen Hao Folding 8x10. Its great. It weighs about 9 pounds and folds really small. Its about 1900$. Also The Chamonix 8x10 is a very similar design and has an optional 4x5 reduction back. Its more expensive but you could have the best of both worlds.

Gem Singer
17-Jan-2011, 11:37
ataim,

You state that you do a fair amount of hiking and enjoy shooting landscapes and nature.

Yet, you have two heavy weight monorail cameras. Neither one is suitable for the type of photography that you enjoy.

Why not keep your 4x5 film holders and lenses, sell both cameras and their accessories, and purchase a light weight 4x5 folding flatbed camera that is compatible with the type of photography that you prefer?

8x10 is a wonderful format if you plan on shooting B&W, developing your own negatives, and making contact prints. Otherwise it is expensive for color photography and a bulky heavy weight format to use outdoors in the field.

BTW, there's a large number of large format photographers in the DFW area who can help you

Noah A
18-Jan-2011, 09:23
... If you're a machine-gunner making
twenty shots a day, 8x10 will put you in the poorhouse fast; so the nature of the game is that if you do choose the large camera, you will almost automatically be more
careful with your choice of compositions, and shoot less film overall - so end up spending about the same.

:D Only in the Large Format world does 20 photos a day constitute a 'machine gunner'! :D

But drew is spot-on. I've found that with 8x10 you do choose your photographs more carefully and you do shoot fewer frames. And with 4x5 you're free to experiment more and shoot a higher volume (though to me it's still a slow, contemplative medium).

Only you can decide which is best for your needs and preferences.