The price jump from Ilford is official

[Robert Skeoch]

I received this Monday late afternoon. This is from the Canadian distributor of Ilford and Kentmere. I haven't had a chance to compare the prices but a quick glance looked like 25% on film like HP5 8x10.

As a result of the unprecedented rise in the price of silver over the past
year, the key raw material in Photographic film and paper, Harman
Technology - Ilford and Kentmere branded products - have announced a
significant price increase effective Feb. 1, 2011. The increase applies to
all Silver Halide based products including Ilford and Kentmere black and
white papers, films and Scientific products. Chemical and accessory items
are not affected by this increase.

Due to stock limitations, we reserve the right to limit purchases on all
Ilford and Kentmere film and paper products that are covered by this
increase.

I'll try and post the new prices on my website tomorrow.
-Rob Skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com

[Sirius Glass]

As the cost of materials, such as silver, rises and value of currencies decline, the price of chemicals, paper and film will rise.

In the past the cost of chemicals, paper and film were inexpensive compared to the cost of cameras and lenses. Due to the digital revolution, cameras are cheaper. I can now own cameras that in the past I could only dream about. Therefore, even with these incremental raises in photographic materials, I am still better off than I was ten years ago.

I would like to see Ilford, Kodak and Fuji stay in the film business.

Lets not start the mindless rants of "X raised the price of film! I will boycott X.", "Y stopped making my favorite film! I will boycott Y.", and "Z does not know anything about the film business any longer! I will boycott Z."

Steve

[Robert Skeoch]

Hi Sirius,

I agree with you. I just made the posting to keep people up-to-date on the situation. Maybe we could close the thread and just leave the announcement open.

-rob

[Merg Ross]

This increase was to be expected, although it is not an unprecedented increase in the price of silver. That occured in 1980 when it closed close to US$50 per ounce. All silver based photo supplies took a tremendous price jump shortly thereafter, and never retreated after the rapid decline in the price of silver. Fortunately, I was in a position to pass the increase on to my loyal customers.

As unwelcome as this news might be, the good news is that Ilford will continue to make materials for the silver based commuinity. For that we should applaud; after all, silver based users are only a niche in the overall market.

Thanks, Robert, for making the news official.

[Heroique]

“Due to stock limitations, we reserve the right to limit purchases on all Ilford and Kentmere film and paper products that are covered by this increase.”

Thanks for the alert, Robert.

BTW, the distributor’s “we reserve the right” statement (above) is worth a chuckle.

Sounds like bank panics & withdrawal limits. ;)

[Drew Wiley]

Anything in black-and-white seems easy to me, at least if it's silver-based. I stocked
up with about a year's worth of Kentmere and Ilford papers for about the same cost
as two weeks of color printing! Most metal commodities are on a roller coaster.
I think what Merg was referring to was back when Bunker Hunt and his brother managed to control the entire silver market. They were sons of an infamous Texas billionaire, and their own financial empire thankfully crumbled due to family fighting over the fortune, and who was or was not a legal heir (the patriarch had two wives
at the same time - interesting history to say the least). Kodak and photographers in general were really pinched, and several well known fine art printers had to temporarily suspend activity due to the cost of paper.

[DrTang]

when Bunker Hunt and his brother managed to control the entire silver market. .

I remember those days

Kodak B&W film went up like 50 percent almost overnight

I sold all my silver quarters and dimes for like 15X face value

funny thing though.. when the price of silver plummeted, Kodak didn't lower their prices back down very much or any at all

[Wayne]

Wonder what this will do to Ilfochrome prices. Doesnt matter, I cant afford it now.

[Merg Ross]

Kodak B&W film went up like 50 percent almost overnight

That is correct.


funny thing though.. when the price of silver plummeted, Kodak didn't lower their prices back down very much or any at all

Correct again.

[Steven Tribe]

I have the feeling that the cost of Ag in photographic material is only a small proportion of the total cost of the material. Has anyone made an analysis of the mass of silver in an sq. inch of negative? The contribution of silver content to total cost would be easy to find out. This must have been done at some time?

[Sevo]

This increase was to be expected, although it is not an unprecedented increase in the price of silver. That occured in 1980 when it closed close to US$50 per ounce. All silver based photo supplies took a tremendous price jump shortly thereafter, and never retreated after the rapid decline in the price of silver.

Only in black and white. Colour, in particular CN, eventually did more than adjust, and finally went into a price war it has not yet fully recovered from. But the Hunt crisis provided the big makers with the opportunity to kill black and white as the cheapest consumer material, and replace it with colour negative. The current ups and downs won't have a similar effect, though - nobody has been using black and white for cost reasons for ages, and no maker is going to be the loss leader in an attempt to grow his film market share...

[Robert Skeoch]

I chatted with my Ilford distributor this morning.
It seems no products have been discontinued and no changes to the minimal orders on products. It's just a price change.

Right now I have stock of a lot of paper and film. It's at the old price. Yesterday I ordered a lot of paper and film, if it was in stock at the distributor it will ship at the old price. If it's in the container on the way from the UK to Canada it will ship at the old price, if it's part of an order already placed by the distributor with Ilford it will ship at the old price.

If it's not already on order with Ilford it will ship at the new price.

I have a couple examples of price changes on my most popular items.

HP5 8x10 current price is $105.33 new price is $124.19
FP4 120 Current price is $5.57 new price is $6.10
Multigrade Fibrebase Glossy 8x10 100 sheet current price is $98.61, new price is $124.26
Multigrade Fibrebase Warmtone Glossy 11x14 50 sheets current price is $122.80, new price is $154.72

Kenmere products have a price increase of 21% across the board.

[SamReeves]

Yeeech.

I'll stick with Arista thank you.

[Wayne]

Yeeech.

I'll stick with Arista thank you.

How much is their price increase going to be?

[John Kasaian]

I think it is important that we have multiple suppliers. I shoot a lot of Ilford, but I've also gotten to "know" Arista(Foma) quite well, and I've played around with Efke and some Orwa too. Foma and Efke are not "cheap" films---pricewise (in the US)they are on par with Ilford and the price of silver will have an effect across the board anyway. I don't know how Freestyle can sell Arista at a substanial savings over Foma but we are quite fortunate that they can(even Arista has gone up in price though!) I think this "heads up" from Rob is worthy of serious consideration. Here's what I plan to do:

Buy film & paper for this summer's projects now or pay the price later.

Learn other emulsions as they might help stretch my dollar. For example, I find that for architecture (or any non squirmy subject) without any sky showing I really like Ortho Litho film. With the right developer it gives nice midtones and the stuff is pretty cheap compared to panchro film.

Thanks Rob! :)

[Drew Wiley]

Wayne - Ilfochrome shouldn't be affected that much by silver fluctuations per se, but
is very susceptible to raw materials cost going into the polyester, the general rise in
petrochemicals, and the declining demand for the print material itself. The same factors
are what will drive up the cost of color film itself even more than currently. The different mfg have to fight for diminished supplies of particular film base. Ciba uses a
different plastic than Fuji Supergloss. Either one could disappear if demand slumps
significantly, and then we'd be stuck with only RC color prints and inkjets. Sure hope
that doesn't happen, but I can only afford print minor amounts of the stuff myself.

[SamReeves]

How much is their price increase going to be?

Not as much as Ilfart, that's for sure.

[John Kasaian]

I've already placed my order so I'll have enough 8x10 HP-5+ for my summer projects.

[Pavel+]

Perverse as this sounds, I feel that this is just fine. I sure don't like the hit in the wallet but my greater fear has always been that manufacturers will diminish the variety of offerings that are still very good, and I feel that long term that there may be a bit of a renaissance for film if the materials are still around when interest returns. That interest will imho be of film as a boutique market. Soon enough when everyone and their granny (and dog too) is shooting with a cell phone indistinguishable in quality from a mid level slr of today, digital will be far less something that intrigues both the tech-head and the advanced amateur. Film will gain in desirability then. It will be a bit of a status item and desirable by the fact that it IS expensive. Kind of like the Leica products, I'd like-a to think. Or that is my hope and silver lining as I try to figure out which day of the week is best for me to skip eating. :)

It was inevitable. Its here but not in any "the sky is falling" way. I plan to keep buying ilford and several other brands. My appreciation is that it sure could be far worse. It has long been predicted to be much more swift and deadly by those digi-heads. I'll be darned if I give the doom-sayers their satisfaction! :D

No. Film is exotic, has a look that digital does not give me. It is like diamonds, Ferraris, yachts and real trufles - but far more useful. Why I feel classier already!

and if I am wrong on every score then I'd like to point out that delusions are much much better than crying. :(

[John Kasaian]

Any idea when the price increase will take effect? My last order from Badger Graphic seem consistent with the previous prices I've been paying for the stuff(HP-5+ in 8x10) I'd assume that we'll notice the new prices when the current stocks are replenished? I noticed that B+H is still under $80/box for 8x10 HP-5+ & FP-4+(undercutting Badger by about a buck--but I figure it isn't really significant for me since the savings on shipping to the west coast will likely mitigate the difference.)

[Oren Grad]

Any idea when the price increase will take effect?

Simon Galley says the price rise goes into effect at the factory on Feb 1:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/85979-note-harman-technology-limited-re-price-increases.html

[John Kasaian]

Thanks!

[Roger Thoms]

I have the feeling that the cost of Ag in photographic material is only a small proportion of the total cost of the material. Has anyone made an analysis of the mass of silver in an sq. inch of negative? The contribution of silver content to total cost would be easy to find out. This must have been done at some time?

Here's a quote for Simon Galley from a post over on Apug "The cause of this increase is not only silver, but it is by far the biggest element, we have had significant rises in base costs, fine chemicals, taxation, employment costs, transport and energies. We have worked incredibly hard to try and offset these increases by cost savings and efficiencies in the factory and by necessity reducing staff numbers in 2009. HARMAN technology Limited had not planned ANY increase in prices AT ALL during 2011.

Roger

[John NYC]

Thanks for the heads up. I just bought 2 more boxes of FP4 and 1 more of HP5 at the old prices. This after stocking up on E100G as well in the event of more Kodak shenanigans. I've got the downpayment for a car in my little apartment freezer now! Hope the freezer doesn't spring an ice maker leak or something!

[Louie Powell]

This should come as no surprise to anyone. Consider:
- the cost of materials and labor is increasing
- the number of photographers using film is diminishing - rapidly
- manufacturers need either adequate pricing or adequate volume to survive. In the absence of volume, price increases are inevitable.
- there are fewer manufacturers making film, meaning that there is less competition in a shrinking market. That's also a scenario that leads to price increases.

And ultimately, we should be glad that Ilford is biting the bullet and raising prices. If they didn't do that, the result could be another business failure, which means that Ilford products would no longer be available. I would rather pay more and still be able to buy film than have to abandon film photography altogether because film is no longer being manufactured.

[bob carnie]

This pretty well sums it up for me. I am willing to pay more if it means Ilford , Fuji and Kodak still make the goods, for some its just a casual hobby easily replaced with digital sensors and inkjet for others *myself included* film and wet printing is a way of life.

This should come as no surprise to anyone. Consider:
- the cost of materials and labor is increasing
- the number of photographers using film is diminishing - rapidly
- manufacturers need either adequate pricing or adequate volume to survive. In the absence of volume, price increases are inevitable.
- there are fewer manufacturers making film, meaning that there is less competition in a shrinking market. That's also a scenario that leads to price increases.

And ultimately, we should be glad that Ilford is biting the bullet and raising prices. If they didn't do that, the result could be another business failure, which means that Ilford products would no longer be available. I would rather pay more and still be able to buy film than have to abandon film photography altogether because film is no longer being manufactured.

[Drew Wiley]

It ain't just film and printing paper, folks. These kind of pricing increases are happening all through any industry using chemical coatings and base plastics. Digital
whatever has damn little to do with it. Supplies are in short supply everywhere due
to various shutdowns related to the overall poor economy the last two years, so
mfg have to more aggressively compete for what is available in terms of raw materials. Labor is thin. Shipping costs have gone up across the board. And petrochemicals are rising. A lot of this is an overdue price adjustment after quite
a season of relative stability. It's only going to get worse. So hang on!

[John NYC]

It ain't just film and printing paper, folks. These kind of pricing increases are happening all through any industry using chemical coatings and base plastics. Digital
whatever has damn little to do with it. Supplies are in short supply everywhere due
to various shutdowns related to the overall poor economy the last two years, so
mfg have to more aggressively compete for what is available in terms of raw materials. Labor is thin. Shipping costs have gone up across the board. And petrochemicals are rising. A lot of this is an overdue price adjustment after quite
a season of relative stability. It's only going to get worse. So hang on!

Yes... to quote someone who posts to the "Film Is Not Dead It Just Smells Funny" group on flickr...

"I don't think "Film will be completely
Dead" but it could possibly become one of the most
Luxurious things in the years to come."
Toshihiro Oshima

[Richard K.]

............ others *myself included* film and wet printing is a way of life.

Hallelujah Bob...

[Drew Wiley]

John - I knew someone would pounce, but I was speaking in the context of WHY film
is going up. Marketing trends and profit incentives are a completely different factor
and much more difficult to predict. For example, during the same phase as film is
increasing significantly, something like inkjet inks mights appear relatively stable.
Their mfg costs might also have risen 20% or so hypothetically; but the fact that
this category of product often ends up with total profit margin in the thousands of percent means that there is a vast amount of room to buffer the retail price. With
film the margin is smaller, and probably most of the upcharge does occur at retail.
The fact that film selection has diminished mean that some of the slower moving less profitiable items no longer need to be sustained, so the remaining ones should be even more profitable (again, until marketing decisions overreact and kill a brand completely, or tank the economies of scale). The simple fact is that chemical mfg is rising fast in many categories, and what we're seeing in film and paper isn't out of sych with the rest of the picture at all. I've got piles of letters on my desk at work
from various manufacturers explaining why prices are rising like crazy at this
particular moment, and have even had sit-down meetings with CEO's and mfg reps
discussing such things in the past few days. I suspect that all kinds of things we're accustomed to will turn out to be luxuries in the future. Film will be one of them; darkroom paper even more (esp color). Just means wasting one less shot a day, or taking the time to make an extra test strip in the darkroom, and of course, keeping on top of product changes, just like we have always done. No difference in digital; there will always be the need to learn new tricks and figure out how to save a buck.

[John NYC]

John - I knew someone would pounce, but I was speaking in the context of WHY film
is going up. Marketing trends and profit incentives are a completely different factor
and much more difficult to predict. For example, during the same phase as film is
increasing significantly, something like inkjet inks mights appear relatively stable.
Their mfg costs might also have risen 20% or so hypothetically; but the fact that
this category of product often ends up with total profit margin in the thousands of percent means that there is a vast amount of room to buffer the retail price. With
film the margin is smaller, and probably most of the upcharge does occur at retail.
The fact that film selection has diminished mean that some of the slower moving less profitiable items no longer need to be sustained, so the remaining ones should be even more profitable (again, until marketing decisions overreact and kill a brand completely, or tank the economies of scale). The simple fact is that chemical mfg is rising fast in many categories, and what we're seeing in film and paper isn't out of sych with the rest of the picture at all. I've got piles of letters on my desk at work
from various manufacturers explaining why prices are rising like crazy at this
particular moment, and have even had sit-down meetings with CEO's and mfg reps
discussing such things in the past few days. I suspect that all kinds of things we're accustomed to will turn out to be luxuries in the future. Film will be one of them; darkroom paper even more (esp color). Just means wasting one less shot a day, or taking the time to make an extra test strip in the darkroom, and of course, keeping on top of product changes, just like we have always done. No difference in digital; there will always be the need to learn new tricks and figure out how to save a buck.

Yes, and my comment is one that agrees with you. I don't see why you said "pounce". I am agreeing with what you are saying, and I think Tommy O's comment reflects that which is why I used it.

[Don Dudenbostel]

Here's a suggestion all of us should be doing for the environment as well as to reduce the bottom line on our photography. Back in the late 70's and early 80's when silver went out of sight many studios including myself started recovering and selling the silver out of our fixer and bleach fix. Now is the time to start recovering again. Last year I found an inexpensive small electrical recovery system that would do the trick. I was going to buy one but got side tracked but anyone interested should be able to google and find a recovery system. With silver hovering in the $30/oz range it could help ofset increases in cost.

Drews comments are on target. I don't see labor as much of a factor at the moment but petroleum used in the plastic base and silver going up I'm surprised that it hasn't gone up earlier last year.

I expect silver to continue to clime. Last spring I started purchasing silver ETF (slv) shares and watched my investment gain 40% in just a few months. I wrang the register as it started to move down and bought other metals at their low. I do however expect silver to move higher andcwould not be surprised if it hits $50 an ounce this year.

My suggestion, get a recovery unit and invest in silver shares. If silver is climbing why not take advantage of it rather than taking a hit on it.