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View Full Version : Cheapest way to get into 8x10?



Curtis Nelson
10-Jan-2011, 17:31
I've been using a 4x5 field camera now for about 6 or 7 years. My primary output consists of scanning my negatives and printing the scans at Costco. I would like to move up to 8x10 and just do contact prints because I feel I can get a better image that way. What would be the cheapest route to 8x10?

John Bowen
10-Jan-2011, 17:48
Steal a camera, lens, holders and film. It doesn't get much cheaper than that.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.....

Gem Singer
10-Jan-2011, 17:52
By "cheapest way", how much are you willing to you spend?

The cost of an 8x10 camera, a lens or two, film holders, film, possibly a heavier duty tripod and a larger dark cloth, soon begin to add up, even when purchasing used equipment.

In essence, it ain't cheap.

Brian C. Miller
10-Jan-2011, 18:14
8x10 pinhole camera: cooler found by the road, or a paint can. No holder needed, just some tape.

Alan Gales
10-Jan-2011, 18:36
The cheapest new 8x10 is probably the Wehman at $2,200.00 for the regular model.

For cheap used, research Kodak 2D, Calumet C1 and Burke & James. Sometimes Toyo 8x10 monorails are pretty reasonable on Ebay also.

Vaughn
10-Jan-2011, 18:40
A Kodak 2D is one of the most affordable cameras on can find on the used market. The better deals are ones that have the extention rail and the sliding tripod bock -- both of which one can live without (unless one is using very long lenses.)

Good bellows, of course.

Holders -- some of the older wooden one can be bought at a cheap price -- otherwise expect 35 to 45 bucks for older plastic holders.

Lens -- depending on your imagery. Barrel lenses are relatively inexpensive -- fine if your exposure times will be a second or more (mine usually are). Semi-normal range is 270mm to 360mm. For lenses in shutters, keep an eye out for Calumet lenses -- usually a great value for re-branded German lenses.

Bob McCarthy
10-Jan-2011, 18:43
If you don't mind a sizable camera, I bought a 8x10 Sinar P for about $800.

In a roller cooler, it's portable.

Sinars are a bargain in any format and very capable cameras.

Bob

DanK
10-Jan-2011, 18:48
A Kodak 2D is one of the most affordable cameras on can find on the used market. The better deals are ones that have the extention rail and the sliding tripod bock -- both of which one can live without (unless one is using very long lenses.)

Good bellows, of course.

Holders -- some of the older wooden one can be bought at a cheap price -- otherwise expect 35 to 45 bucks for older plastic holders.

Lens -- depending on your imagery. Barrel lenses are relatively inexpensive -- fine if your exposure times will be a second or more (mine usually are). Semi-normal range is 270mm to 360mm. For lenses in shutters, keep an eye out for Calumet lenses -- usually a great value for re-branded German lenses.


Everything Vaughn said is probably the best bet...IMO

Orbit lenses, as well, in shutters...rebranded...

Thanks,
Dan

jp
10-Jan-2011, 18:56
If you're just looking for a better B&W image, you should have a 4x5 enlarger. The big box stores do an amazing job at 8x10 and 4x6 prints, but if they regularly meet your needs, you either have low standards or should start buying lotto tickets. They have the capability, but not always the consistency. A nice 4x5 enlarger might be $0-400 and $50-200 for a nice enlarger lens if you don't get one or more free with the enlarger. For better color images, you should get an epson printer rather than use the big box.

If you want 8x10 experience, Alan's used and Vaughn's suggestions are good.

I bought a B&J 8x10 for $350 here and a Schneider 300/5.6 for $200 in a nice working shutter. Great lens, I got it cheap because someone had dented the rear filter ring; common problem that seriously affects the value without affecting normal use.

I like the plastic film holders much more than the wood and they are about $10 more used. Two film holders is a good start.

I bought a cheap surveying tripod and a 5/8<-->1/4" adaptor from pacific laser systems on amazon.

A box of film for 8x10 isn't a casual purchase either but if you're only doing a couple sheets at a time, it should last quite a while.

Frank Petronio
10-Jan-2011, 19:03
Yeah if you better images perhaps scanning and printing with better skills and tools would be better no matter what camera you use? Plus a good scanner (refurbished Epson 4990) and printer (refurb Epson 2880) are a lot less expensive than an 8x10 outfit, especially once you factor film cost in.

Like others have said, the camera is only 30-40% of the expense. 8x10 film is 4x more expensive too.

Don't get me wrong, 8x10 is awesome. But if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

myoptic
10-Jan-2011, 20:14
Frank is right of course about the overall cost, but the size and weight factor are issues too. My 4x5 days saw me wandering much further afield in search of images, while my short lived 8x10 days saw me shooting more inside and when outdoors, not that far from the car. The fact that I had a rickety B&J was no help either, make sure you get something solid, as rickety really sucks.

Bill_1856
10-Jan-2011, 20:19
What would one expect to pay for a nice Kodak 2D?

Alan Gales
10-Jan-2011, 20:33
Bill,

Eddie Gunks has a 2D on Ebay right now for $499.99 buy it now. It has the extension rail but is missing the elusive sliding tripod block. It also needs a new bellows. The item # is 290521123645 if you want to look at the listing. A nicer one refinished, with new bellows and original sliding tripod block of course would cost a little more.

John Kasaian
10-Jan-2011, 21:06
An 8x10 pinhole will be the cheapest of course.
A Kodak 2D, B&J, Calumet Green Monster or Agfa Ansco will probably be the least costly cameras you'll find. It the bellows are light tight and the movements lock down OK then whats not to like? A heavier tripod is a must when coming from 4x5 but there are options like a surveyor's tripod with a 1/4-20 conversion.
Don't forget Film holders. These have gotten stinkin' expensive lately. The black wooden ones marked "Graflex made for Eastman Kodak" are usually the cheapest and mine work very well for me. I think three holders are the right number to start out with, then add more as you come across "deals."
Some lenses used on 4x5s will cover an 8x10, but many won't, so what do you already have? If you have a 240 G Claron on your 4x5 you'll be well outfitted! If you have to buy a lens old glass is the way to go. Wollensak, Kodak & Ilex seem to bring lower prices but optically can be very desireable lenses. Goerz & Schneider are also excellent but they are usually more costly. Whatever you do you'll want an operating shutter or factor a CLA into the cost, unless you're comfortable with a barrel lens and a "hat"(in that case the world, as it is, will be at your doorstep!)

I'd think you could easily get into an 8x10 kit for less than $1000, maybe quite a bit less if you stumble on to a few bargains.

Lets pull some numbers out of thin air:
Camera-$500
Barrel lens-$60
Tripod-$150 used surveyor's model with a 1/4-20" home made adapter
Film Holders-$120 for three clean used ones.

Bruce Barlow
11-Jan-2011, 05:14
I like the pinhole idea - now that's cheap. We have a pinhole 4x5 that my son made in 7th grade (his entire class made them - gotta love Waldorf education). He and I made negs and prints. f/256 gave Tri-X a 1 sec exposure in bright New Hampshire sun. No film holders, just a heavily-taped cardboard camera and film.

And let's talk about depth of field!

This could be a lot of fun, and a wonderful way to kick tires.

Enlarging 4x5 is fine, scanning and enlarging is fine, but REAL 8x10 can almost be a religious experience. Worth trying before you die.

eddie
11-Jan-2011, 15:15
Bill,

Eddie Gunks has a 2D on Ebay right now for $499.99 buy it now. It has the extension rail but is missing the elusive sliding tripod block. It also needs a new bellows. The item # is 290521123645 if you want to look at the listing. A nicer one refinished, with new bellows and original sliding tripod block of course would cost a little more.

thanks alan....

i got a complete one as well.....:)

IMO the expensive part of 8x10 is the film. if you are patient you should be able to get a camera for 500-800. holders (here ion the forum even) for $40 each. turner reich or tessar 12 inch in a betax shutter for 250-350. so around 800-1200 you are in....

or just lash out, call hugo zhang and get the 8x10 chamonix.......8 1/2 pounds of sweetness....

John NYC
11-Jan-2011, 17:08
I've been using a 4x5 field camera now for about 6 or 7 years. My primary output consists of scanning my negatives and printing the scans at Costco. I would like to move up to 8x10 and just do contact prints because I feel I can get a better image that way. What would be the cheapest route to 8x10?

For the camera new, probably a Tachihara or a Shen Hao. Used cameras, don't know.

For the lens, buy a big Copal #3 old Symmar or some other thing that is not highly in demand. You can probably get one for very cheap these days.

Buy used holders.

Buy Ilford film not Kodak, or even better get some of the less name brands.

Develop in trays.

That's about as cheap as I can think to do it.

jan labij
19-Jan-2011, 13:46
If film expense is worrysome, check posts on using x-ray film. I bought a box of half speed blue for $36.57 including shipping. 100 sheet box, by the way.

jnantz
19-Jan-2011, 15:18
it all depends on what you expect to do with the camera.
you can make an 8x10 camera for not too much $$
and if you only want to shoot paper negatives you are all set .. for cheap.

in september i made 3 11x14 cameras and sold 2 of them,
i still have and use one of them. i also built a 4x5 ( that can upsize to 5x7 )
with paper holders ... not pinhole, but glass lenses ...
you just have to use your imagination and you can make things to test the waters.
and who knows you might decide to just use the thing you made
since it works ...

Graybeard
19-Jan-2011, 16:04
Consider an Ansco Universal View in 8x10, the painted, battleship gray one. Well made, out of fashion, and sturdy. It is a simple matter to modify the front standard to allow for swings. The B&J's sell for about the same price but are not so well made.

Have the lady in your life cobble up a dark cloth and find a discount store cooler bag (I'm partial to Target) to use to carry your gear. You want two bags, one for the camera and glass, a second for the film holders. If you're going to work out of the trunk of your car (back of an SUV or pickup), a plastic storage tub is handy.


For a lens, as has been mentioned, look for a 300mm Symmar. Sometimes the 300mm Fujinons sell cheaply as well. Lots of useable barrel lens available in longer focal lengths - get yourself a Fedora (Stetson west of the Mississippi) and a watch with a second hand (Walmart agin').

A sleeper (pricewise) among 8x10 lenses can be the 360mm f6.8 lenses in a Copal #3 shutter(Symmars and Sironars). These are big and heavy and seemingly not terribly popular. Although the asking prices can often be high, the ones that actually sell on eBay can go for $200-$300 (my copy was $240). Be patient, and on eBay, submit lowball bids often.

You'll need a sturdy tripod - I'll leave it to others on this list to suggest inexpensive alternatives. I use a Majestic that I found on eBay for the price of a box of 8x10 film. Pay attention on this bit of gear; an 8x10 is a hefty bit of weight at the top of the tripod and if the camera starts to go over (wind, your clumsiness, bad karma), the camera will move faster than you can imagine and it will hit hard. This is another reason to consider an Ansco, but please don't ask how I know this.

No joy on film holders, just do the best you can with patience. The older, wooden ones, can be perfectly seviceable and are generally more economical than the more modern (plastic) ones. Get a roll of gaffer's tape and replace the cloth hinge on the holder bottom. Use a vacuum cleaner between shoots to get these guys fit for use.

You can use film hangers for processing and use plastic storage containers (read Target or Walmart) as your tanks. The hanger prices resemble the film holder prices - take your time and with time, you can assemble a collection of these for a couple of dollars (really mean $2-3 per) a pop. I am far to inept to avoid scratches when attempting to use trays for negative development; this doesn't mean that you can't do it sucessfully and avoid the need for hangers.

Frank Petronio
19-Jan-2011, 16:54
The cheapest way to get into 8x10 is to know somebody who got into 8x10 a few months earlier!

Chris Strobel
19-Jan-2011, 18:09
The cheapest way to get into 8x10 is to know somebody who got into 8x10 a few months earlier!


Lol! Funny Frank :D

Jay Decker
19-Jan-2011, 21:31
8x10... huh! Be careful, before you know it you'll have a 100 plus dollar a week film habit.

venchka
20-Jan-2011, 11:53
X-ray film. $30/100 sheets of 8x10. Perfect for learning and getting past Frank's "somebody who got into 8x10 a few months earlier!" Some people like the look of x-ray film and stay with it.
There you go. For under $100, way under probably, you can be making wonderfully "artsy" 8x10 pinhole x-ray film contact prints. And even more artsy 8x10 direct paper positves.
I wish I had thought of that. I wish I were doing that. Do you suppose.........

Jay Decker
21-Jan-2011, 08:55
X-ray film. $30/100 sheets of 8x10. Perfect for learning and getting past Frank's "somebody who got into 8x10 a few months earlier!" Some people like the look of x-ray film and stay with it.
There you go. For under $100, way under probably, you can be making wonderfully "artsy" 8x10 pinhole x-ray film contact prints. And even more artsy 8x10 direct paper positves.
I wish I had thought of that. I wish I were doing that. Do you suppose.........

Which X-ray film do you purchase, where do you buy it, and how do you determine the exposure?

Robert Hughes
21-Jan-2011, 13:53
I bought film from CXS (http://www.cxsonline.com/text/subcatalog.tmpl?command=showpage&sn=825839&category=1001&cart=129564319739820534&location=1001) a year or 2 ago; a box of 100 sheets (green sensitive orthochromatic) is currently selling for about $25. My guess is that the film speed is about ISO 100; start there and you'll get a usable image.

X-ray film has a couple tricks to it; it's 2 sided for one thing. Also, the emulsion is soft and easily scratched. But if you're careful in processing (I develop and fix in 1 gallon baggies filled with chemical) you can make it work without damage.

Jim Ewins
22-Jan-2011, 23:34
I have a B&F Monorail that I'd sell. It functions well, I don't. 5x7 & 4x5 backs, changing tent, film holders etc. email if you wish. jimewins