PDA

View Full Version : Studio Shutters: Worst Large Format Invention Ever?



BarryS
5-Jan-2011, 20:44
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6613/studioshutter.jpg

Is anything worse than a Studio Shutter? They're fragile, unreliable, impossible to find any parts--let alone replacements. Most of them don't work correctly and the few that do are sure to break soon. Wollensak must have found their dumbest designer to create the cursed contrivances and jammed their thumb in the eye of large format history by selling so many of the damn things. I'm going to build a time machine just so I can travel back in time and punch the inventor in the nose. Can you come up with a worse LF product?

DanK
5-Jan-2011, 21:15
Is anything worse than a Studio Shutter?

I don't mind the studio shutter, I just don't like not being able to find a cable release with a long enough throw to open it up completely...

Dan

Ernest Purdum
7-Jan-2011, 09:27
Regrettably, there have been few shutters large enough for the old brass cannon lenses. A Benster is probably a better shutter, but try to find one. Many portrait workers have been pleased to have a Studio instead of no shutter at all.

jnantz
7-Jan-2011, 09:45
i have two studio shutters,
and with a degroff piston i am
able to get them to work perfectly

goamules
7-Jan-2011, 09:52
You are just using them wrong. They make handy:

- Christmas ornaments
- Dog water bowl "splash guards"
- Decorator items (look at my cool old shutter)
- "Worst case" shutter to train new repairpersons
- Central lens flange, just glue the shutter to your lensboard
...etc

Jay DeFehr
7-Jan-2011, 11:58
I have one on my 11.5" Verito that used to stick, but since Flitot's rebuilt it, it works perfectly . There's nothing inside a Studio shutter that can't be easily fabricated.

BarryS
7-Jan-2011, 11:59
Ha--how about a rat collar? Maybe I've been unlucky, but most of the Studio Shutters I've gotten on lenses have has some issue. My latest lens came in a #3 SS described as "needing lubrication", so of course it's a gamble, but it basically doesn't work and I can't even figure out how to get it apart (anyone know?). I've got a nice 18" Verito in #5 and the shutter would work fine, but it's missing the cable release block--and the chances of finding one are exactly zero. How often do you find any SS for sale--let alone parts? Basically never, so there's little hope of repair. :( If you having a nice working one, consider yourself lucky.

GSX4
7-Jan-2011, 12:08
Mine is working fine on my 12" Wollensak Velostigmat series II lens, but am missing the block on my Wollensak series A petzval SS.... It would work well if I had that as everything else is moving freely. I guess I need to make one out of a block of brass or something. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

BarryS
7-Jan-2011, 12:42
... I guess I need to make one out of a block of brass or something. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Well, if you do, please let me know and I'll pay you to make one for me too.

John Kasaian
7-Jan-2011, 12:58
I'll take any and all Studio Shutters off your hands for you. I won't even charge you a hazardous materials fee to do this.
Get rid of it before it infects your good shutters!
I'll make certain it won't bother you ever again.

BarryS
7-Jan-2011, 13:09
Therein lies the problem. Lost souls with broken Studio Shutters tightly hold onto their broken shutters waiting for the parts or extra shutters that will never appear. Collectively, we might be able to cobble together some working shutters--but we all know--it ain't gonna happen. :)


I'll take any and all Studio Shutters off your hands for you. I won't even charge you a hazardous materials fee to do this.
Get rid of it before it infects your good shutters!
I'll make certain it won't bother you ever again.

Jim Galli
7-Jan-2011, 14:08
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/modelT.jpg

Here's the worst piece of shit ever.

Slow, Cold, Windy, Noisy, inefficient, the lights are dim, the windsheild wiper is a joke, the door on the drivers side is fake, won't go 70mph all day long on the freeway, no front brakes, 2 speed growler of a transmission, no place to put anything, gas tank is under your butt, go up too steep of a hill and it'll starve for gas and quit, if you find one that works at all it's sure to break!

What a worthless pile of crap. I'd like to go in a time machine and slap Henry Ford. What an idiot.

Doug Howk
7-Jan-2011, 14:12
Flutot's was able to free the shutter so that it fires properly; but they could not get the aperature to close down. So I have to use it wide open. Its a shame since the Velostigmat 14" looks like good glass.

Shen45
7-Jan-2011, 19:11
I love my Studio shutters. Our master of all that is old sold me two a time ago and they are just great. Unlike a lot of pre 1950's shutters these two are accurate at all speeds.

goamules
7-Jan-2011, 19:25
I love my Studio shutters. Our master of all that is old sold me two a time ago and they are just great. Unlike a lot of pre 1950's shutters these two are accurate at all speeds.

And what speeds are those? Open and Close is really only one speed or is your thumb on a timer?

Jim Galli
7-Jan-2011, 19:37
And what speeds are those? Open and Close is really only one speed or is your thumb on a timer?

Open - ansel adams - 2 - ansel adams -3- ansel adams - close

See, a perfect 3 second exposure. :cool:

Shen45
7-Jan-2011, 23:42
As the master said :)

Jim Graves
8-Jan-2011, 01:01
Open - ansel adams - 2 - ansel adams -3- ansel adams - close

Everybody knows ... there was only ONE ansel adams!

Vaughn
8-Jan-2011, 01:04
Yeah, but "1 ansel adams wannabe, 2 ansel adams wannabe, 3 ansel adams wannabe" -- close, would give you a little bit of over-exposure...

eddie
8-Jan-2011, 04:27
i figure most are broken or will be.

funny thing though. i had a nice 16 inch Vitax that was destroyed in shipping. i got it back and figured i would steal a few parts just in case the insurance people wanted the item. i took that little block for the cable release off. i knew some one would be needing it.....AND I FREAKING LOST IT!!!!! damn! it will turn up one day...i hope. but i can not find it now....

BarryS
8-Jan-2011, 06:12
Oh sweet torment! I've got dibs on that little block if you ever find it, Eddie.

eddie
8-Jan-2011, 07:32
Oh sweet torment! I've got dibs on that little block if you ever find it, Eddie.

har har har....you and some other few....:)

jnantz
8-Jan-2011, 08:18
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/modelT.jpg

Here's the worst piece of shit ever.

Slow, Cold, Windy, Noisy, inefficient, the lights are dim, the windsheild wiper is a joke, the door on the drivers side is fake, won't go 70mph all day long on the freeway, no front brakes, 2 speed growler of a transmission, no place to put anything, gas tank is under your butt, go up too steep of a hill and it'll starve for gas and quit, if you find one that works at all it's sure to break!

What a worthless pile of crap. I'd like to go in a time machine and slap Henry Ford. What an idiot.

they even wrote songs about that

http://ia700306.us.archive.org/4/items/BillyMurray_part2/BillyMurray-HedHavetoGetUnderGetOutandGetUndertoFixUpHisAutomobile1914a.mp3

jan labij
13-Jan-2011, 15:48
Geez -- I've driven a few of these, and really liked 'em.

Jim Galli
13-Jan-2011, 16:01
Oh sweet torment! I've got dibs on that little block if you ever find it, Eddie.

Me! Me! Me! I need it for an 18" Verito!

Diane Maher
17-Jan-2011, 18:42
I have a Studio shutter on my 19 in. Varium. I've only shot it a couple of times, but open and closed are the only speeds I have on mine. I don't have a proper release for it.

viewit
13-Feb-2011, 20:12
Somebodys found a solution to the missing cable socket problem.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220352947239&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT

BarryS
13-Feb-2011, 21:10
Interesting--it looks like a standard cable release block from a Copal shutter with one of the attachment tabs removed. I'd worry about a little torque rotating the block and misaligning the plunger rod with the lever for the blades. I suppose it would be worth a try if I could find the proper tiny machine screw. Thanks.

viewit
13-Feb-2011, 22:28
I've never owned a studio shutter so..if the lever doesn't sink into the housing when it moved then it might be possible fashion a cap that slips over the lever with a cone shaped depression to receive the plunger.
But finding the scew might be the hard part.

uphereinmytree
30-Jul-2012, 18:23
I have a tiny studio shutter for a 8 3/4" verito that works absolutely well. I have the next size up that works just as well although 4 of the blades are not opague. They are faded looking compared to the good ones and when held to a light bulb they glow brownish orange with transmitted light. They look original. maybe i'll try a sharpie marker?

E. von Hoegh
31-Jul-2012, 06:57
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6613/studioshutter.jpg

Is anything worse than a Studio Shutter? They're fragile, unreliable, impossible to find any parts--let alone replacements. Most of them don't work correctly and the few that do are sure to break soon. Wollensak must have found their dumbest designer to create the cursed contrivances and jammed their thumb in the eye of large format history by selling so many of the damn things. I'm going to build a time machine just so I can travel back in time and punch the inventor in the nose. Can you come up with a worse LF product?

Wollensak Optimo shutter, an unmechanical device with an undersized air cylinder, an unrealistic top speed that, if you used it, would loosen all the internal linkages and render the thing not worth repairing, has a hard to find latch which holds the front plate, etc etc. That, or the Yankee dayight tank.

E. von Hoegh
31-Jul-2012, 07:01
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/modelT.jpg

Here's the worst piece of shit ever.

Slow, Cold, Windy, Noisy, inefficient, the lights are dim, the windsheild wiper is a joke, the door on the drivers side is fake, won't go 70mph all day long on the freeway, no front brakes, 2 speed growler of a transmission, no place to put anything, gas tank is under your butt, go up too steep of a hill and it'll starve for gas and quit, if you find one that works at all it's sure to break!

What a worthless pile of crap. I'd like to go in a time machine and slap Henry Ford. What an idiot.

You forgot the dance you have to do between Brake and Reverse when descending a steep hill, so you don't char the brake band. And you can always back up the hill.

Jim Noel
31-Jul-2012, 09:07
You have to think about the equipment available when these shutters first reached the market. They were the only shutter which could be used with large lenses. If you don't like them, don't buy them and have some respect for those who invented the items which now make our photographic efforts easier and more productive.
Jim


http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6613/studioshutter.jpg

Is anything worse than a Studio Shutter? They're fragile, unreliable, impossible to find any parts--let alone replacements. Most of them don't work correctly and the few that do are sure to break soon. Wollensak must have found their dumbest designer to create the cursed contrivances and jammed their thumb in the eye of large format history by selling so many of the damn things. I'm going to build a time machine just so I can travel back in time and punch the inventor in the nose. Can you come up with a worse LF product?

Diane Maher
31-Jul-2012, 09:24
What does this missing part look like?

goamules
31-Jul-2012, 10:42
This thread was from almost 2 years ago...

E. von Hoegh
31-Jul-2012, 10:44
This thread was from almost 2 years ago...

Is there a statute of limitations on threads?

Jim Galli
31-Jul-2012, 11:39
Wollensak Optimo shutter, an unmechanical device with an undersized air cylinder, an unrealistic top speed that, if you used it, would loosen all the internal linkages and render the thing not worth repairing, has a hard to find latch which holds the front plate, etc etc. That, or the Yankee dayight tank.

Did you realize the Optimo blades do not reset in the same position each cycle. They only go one direction. Thus the lightning speeds attained. So they go ccw on one throw and cw the next. They rarely have equivalent speeds going both ways.

William Whitaker
31-Jul-2012, 11:47
In other words, they work half the time - at best.

goamules
31-Jul-2012, 11:56
I didn't like Studio Shutters way back when this was first written, but I've since had a couple that worked great. Same as any shutter, some work good, old dirty and worn out ones don't. And ALL my Optimos have worked great. No, it's not a modern Copal or whatever, but they work fine for me.

E. von Hoegh
31-Jul-2012, 12:05
Did you realize the Optimo blades do not reset in the same position each cycle. They only go one direction. Thus the lightning speeds attained. So they go ccw on one throw and cw the next. They rarely have equivalent speeds going both ways.


Yes, I have experience with them. That's how I know they are crap.

Edit - "junk" to "crap"

E. von Hoegh
31-Jul-2012, 12:06
In other words, they work half the time - at best.

Precisely. Bad design.

Jody_S
31-Jul-2012, 12:11
Precisely. Bad design.

If 50% are working after a century, it's not a bad design. How many contemporary rubber band shutters are still working?

Ok, it wasn't a great design.

goamules
31-Jul-2012, 12:17
Precisely. Bad design. It's too bad you've had trouble with Optimos (now that this thread is on them, not Studio Shutters). But of the dozens I've used, relative to what else was made during the period, they were about the best. Same as Volutes which came out in about 1903, Optimos about 1912. The Optimo design was so good, it was made longer than any other shutter made by Wollensak until the Betax came out. The photographers of the day considered the Optimo the best shutter. So you can summarily dismiss it, now a century later, but they worked very well for thousands of photographers for decades. I guess the Compound was a better shutter, but the Optimo is pretty good too, if you get a clean one.

Jim Galli
31-Jul-2012, 12:27
Railing against something someone made in a different technological time period that has been in service for 90 years, somehow, just doesn't seem that classy to me. That was what I was trying to say last year with the Model T comparison. What do you expect?? The Model T just beat hell out of a horse and wagon, and the Studio Shutter was light years better than a felt hat.

Who are you to say it's a piece of junk.

E. von Hoegh
31-Jul-2012, 12:30
It's too bad you've had trouble with Optimos (now that this thread is on them, not Studio Shutters). But of the dozens I've used, relative to what else was made during the period, they were about the best. Same as Volutes which came out in about 1903, Optimos about 1912. The Optimo design was so good, it was made longer than any other shutter made by Wollensak until the Betax came out. The photographers of the day considered the Optimo the best shutter. So you can summarily dismiss it, now a century later, but they worked very well for thousands of photographers for decades. I guess the Compound was a better shutter, but the Optimo is pretty good too, if you get a clean one.

I have a very early Compound, 1906 or so. It's as reliable as any modern shutter I have, and the same can be said for all other Compounds I have. I've had a Volute, it was reliable. Goerz Sector, same thing. The two Optimos I've worked on were not reliable and could not be made reliable within 1/3 stop. One was very little used, the other was used but not worn badly.

E. von Hoegh
31-Jul-2012, 12:34
Who are you to say it's a piece of junk.

I said it was crap, not junk. It's poorly designed, it really is that simple. I have a ca. 1830 marine chronometer which could still be used, today, to navigate with. Just because something is from an earlier era is no excuse for it being crap.

Edit - The model T was designed in 1907-1908. Compared to other designs for inexpensive cars, it wasn't bad at all.

Brian Ellis
31-Jul-2012, 12:34
I've never used a Studio shutter, actually never even heard of them until now. But from the looks of the one you posted, it's not surprising you can't get parts. It looks like it's about 100 years old.

Jim Galli
31-Jul-2012, 12:44
I said it was crap, not junk. It's poorly designed, it really is that simple. I have a ca. 1830 marine chronometer which could still be used, today, to navigate with. Just because something is from an earlier era is no excuse for it being crap.

Edit - The model T was designed in 1907-1908. Compared to other designs for inexpensive cars, it wasn't bad at all.

You're comparing apples and oranges. The marine chronometer and the Compound both enjoyed a 'money is no object' design point, with a machinist hand finishing ever tiny part. The Volute falls in that same general category, though less successful. The Studio Shutter and the Betax' that followed were made to be stamped out with the same technology as an alarm clock. I think they are fantastic for the design criteria they fell under.

E. von Hoegh
31-Jul-2012, 12:57
You're comparing apples and oranges. The marine chronometer and the Compound both enjoyed a 'money is no object' design point, with a machinist hand finishing ever tiny part. The Volute falls in that same general category, though less successful. The Studio Shutter and the Betax' that followed were made to be stamped out with the same technology as an alarm clock. I think they are fantastic for the design criteria they fell under.

I never said the studio shutter was crap. I've never used or seen one and therefore have no opinion. It's the Optimo that's crap. The Betax was quite good, in my experience. And I can assure you that every piece of the Compound was not hand finished, comparing it to a chronometer is like comparing a Mossberg to a Holland & Holland.

Mark Sawyer
31-Jul-2012, 14:11
FWIW, I rather like the Studio Shutters. I have half-a-dozen that work nicely, and one that doesn't due to abuse and broken/missing parts. If I had the parts, I'm sure I could get it going again. Yes, they're primitive, but also easy to work on.

I like Jim's analogy to a Model T. I have a fairly new pick-up now, and like it for its comfort and reliability. But when something goes, I can't fix it myself. My old truck, I could change the starter in five minutes or less. I can't even see it on my new truck...

uphereinmytree
1-Aug-2012, 07:22
I'd rather have a studio shutter than a packard shutter on smaller lenses. Anyone ever have studio shutter blades that weren't opaque? anyone want to sell me some studio shutters that have at least 4 opaque blades?

BarryS
1-Aug-2012, 07:53
I've never heard of a studio shutter with translucent blades--perhaps they got replaced at some point. I think you're going to have a tough time finding replacement blades or a replacement shutter--the supply situation hasn't improved.

The point of my original post was to have a little fun with my exasperation with the limited options for non-working studio shutters--I'm generally a big fan of Wollensak gear. People get a little too serious around here, but for those of you still following--I never got the time machine built. However, if I do get the time machine working, I'll be using it to pick up a few crates of Pinkham and Smith Semi-Achromats--the designers at Wolly are safe.


I'd rather have a studio shutter than a packard shutter on smaller lenses. Anyone ever have studio shutter blades that weren't opaque? anyone want to sell me some studio shutters that have at least 4 opaque blades?

eddie
2-Aug-2012, 05:20
Some blades were opaque. Or became that way.

I had one i was tryung to test the shutter speed on. Drove me absolutlry crazy until i figuged it out. I bet it was red light safe! It was from a very early lens. I have forgotten which at this point....but i do remember it pinning my tester!

Here is a video on the studio shutter:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYYUajLF2o8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

eddie
2-Aug-2012, 05:21
What does this missing part look like?

It is the piece that the shutter release canle screws into. See the above video.

PS: i found it a long time back and barrys owns it now!...:)