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Bob Kerner
3-Jan-2011, 19:52
Are most people here content to buy used LF cameras off the 'net based on a few pictures and a description, or do you prefer to pay more and purchase from a dealer such as KEH or MPEX etc?

In another thread, we got to discussing prices for used Crowns and, to generalize, they're going for around $300 on the Ebay. I'm risk averse and fear getting a POS and then being unable to return it, so I checked a couple of shops in NYC that sell used gear and they are asking $500-650 for Crowns, but with 3 month warranties and 15 day return periods.

$600 seems excessive but it got me to wondering how much of a premium is acceptable for the convenience of dealing with a brick and mortar shop that offers a warranty/liberal return policy on used LF gear.

How much extra would you pay, or are you comfortable with gambling on purchasing from unknown parties?

{It's another way of trying to determine if I'm unreasonably risk averse :confused: }

Brian Vuillemenot
3-Jan-2011, 20:04
E-Bay is a buyer's market right now; if you pay with Pay-Pal and have any problems, notify them and they will refund your money at the sellers expense (see all the threads about unfortunate sellers who've gotten screwed by unscrupulous buyers via Pay-Pal). Besides this fact, it's pretty safe buying cameras on E-Bay, provided they have ample pictures to examine and there are no red flags in the auction description. Most sellers will also offer a 3 or 7 day money back returns. I've bought numerous photographic gear via the bay and most has been as good or better than described, many things quite a bit more expensive than a $300 Crown Graphic. Of course, you may also want to check the buy/sell forum here at LFphoto.info.

Frank Petronio
3-Jan-2011, 20:13
First choice is the local option with this forum, buying from a known member who regularly posts, not a newbie.

Fred Miranda's forum, RFF, etc. are good too.

But I'm comfortable paying "average" prices from a solid seller on eBay who has good photos and descriptions.

When the description and photos are lacking, the most I will do is a "What The Hell" lowball bid even if I really want it. It's simply not worth the hassle to deal with a bad transaction. If I end up with something no good then I will resell it for a low price but with a very accurate description. People will even buy rubbish if you're honest.

Gem Singer
3-Jan-2011, 21:03
Limiting the discussion to cameras and camera gear, I have found that dealing with a seller that can be trusted is more important than the final purchasing price.

Jim, at Midwest is the most honest photo dealer I have ever met. He will never shaft a customer and will bend over backwards to make the sale go smoothly.

However, he needs to make a profit. Therefore, Jim's prices are slightly higher than purchasing from a private seller. I always figured that it was worth the extra expense to have a used item pass his inspection before I bought it. If he didn't think a camera or a lens was in excellent condition, he would not sell it to me.

KEH has more previously owned photo items in stock than any other dealer in the country.

They will reveal any defects that they can see and have a liberal return policy for defective items that they did not notice.

I have purchased items from KEH that were priced well below the selling prices on Ebay.

The best deals are right here on this forum where you can deal directly with the seller.

rdenney
4-Jan-2011, 06:16
I agree with Gem. I've bought from both ebay and from KEH (and Midwest, for that matter). I have not paid more at KEH, in general. I do often find, however, that ebay descriptions are more usefully detailed than those on KEH. And I find things KEH can't categorize easily, particularly parts. If you want a parts camera to go with your good Crown (when you get it), ebay is a better source for that.

My skiddishness factor is a lot higher on ebay, though. It's easy to run me off from an ebay ad if something makes me nervous. I don't have that nervousness buying things from KEH.

Rick "who'd like to spend a few hours in KEH's junk box of goodies they can't figure out how to categorize" Denney

jp
4-Jan-2011, 06:20
I have bought cameras here and apug and ebay. If you are looking for something specific (you state your search for a crown graphic), you really have to be patient to get something accurately described for a good price. If you have no patience you can get it for a higher price. I suspect most of the purchasing of LF equipment is by people who have wanted something for months or years and when it comes up, they notice and consider buying it.

You could also post a wanted here. Lots of people have lots of stuff they don't need but don't want the hassle of dealing with the variety of people one might end up corresponding with to sell something. I have posted wanteds here and got what I want for very reasonable prices in quick timeframes. They probably take the paypal money I sent them and buy some other piece of gear the next week.

For lenses, KEH tends to be comparable to ebay in prices, sometimes less, sometimes the same, sometimes a tiny bit more, but you get their return policy. If you are after a lens, check there first. I prefer to get lenses from them than ebay. I have found sellers on this forum to be very accurate in their lens selling too. The people here generally want to maintain a good reputation with each other and are pretty open with each other about what they are selling.

goamules
4-Jan-2011, 07:08
I most definitely like to take calculated risks and buy on Ebay. Especially if the price is half or less like you are describing. $600 for a Crown Graphic? I think not. I patiently watched and bid on several Speed Graphics until I won one for $140 a few years ago. Perfect, perfect condition.

I've seldom had a problem buying used, cheaply, from auction sellers that are willing to let the market forces determine price. It's not worth me paying an extra couple hundred dollars to some dealer because he has to keep a store going.

Bob Kerner
4-Jan-2011, 07:23
I don't mind supporting local brick and mortar shops but the number of shops in and around NYC dealing with LF is very small now. So I'll pay a couple of extra bucks for a filter ring or something rather than going online. But $600 for a $300 camera is a bit over the top!

My concern is that there's also a lot of crap out there. I saw a "found in the attic" Crown on Ebay and I immediately thought: "$140 isn't bad at all, but it might need shutter servicing, a bellows etc etc." By the time you get all that attended to, you're back at $500 aren't you?

Some things I could replace myself but I wouldn't know where to begin with a major overhaul if that was necessary. And that's what keeps me from taking the gamble. But as someone else mentioned...maybe I'm looking at this wrongheaded. If it turns out to be a lemon, just re-sell it.

Scratched Glass
4-Jan-2011, 08:32
I agree that you need to be skittish of ebay, but in general you can get a good price and sometimes there are other goodies to go with it. I got a Speed Graphic in very good condition with film, flash, flash bulbs and other accessories for $350, and I thought I paid too much. Even if you have a 30 day warranty it is still on a camera 40 or more years old, and something is going to go out of sync with it soon, as it did with my speed 8 months after I bought it. It still works fine, however. For $600 a patient buyer unlike myself should be able to pick up at least three crown graphics on ebay.

Ari
4-Jan-2011, 08:41
Unlike other people on this forum, I have never had a bad transaction on eBay; true, I've only had around 95 of 'em, but most people are pretty forthright about particular problems with a piece of kit; the hard thing to gauge is how much dirt is in the camera, for example, or standards being being slightly askew, or perhaps some kind of quirk that the seller is unaware of.
I've bought a lot of stuff here as well, and all of it was just as described.

Oren Grad
4-Jan-2011, 08:44
Are most people here content to buy used LF cameras off the 'net based on a few pictures and a description, or do you prefer to pay more and purchase from a dealer such as KEH or MPEX etc?

Another aspect is that if you're looking for anything out of the mainstream - say, anything other than a common 4x5 field camera or monorail and the types of lenses and accessories typically used with them - you can wait an awfully long time before you'll find what you're looking for at a dealer. I suspect that these days the vast majority of the more exotic stuff goes up on a forum classifieds section or on eBay and never sees a dealer.

Also, paying more from a dealer is no assurance that the product is described accurately, though it may ease returns. Some dealers are just as sloppy or uninformed in describing their used LF gear as many eBay sellers are.

Moopheus
4-Jan-2011, 08:49
I've bought from ebay and KEH. I always check KEH first, to see what they have in stock and their price. It may be possible to get an item for less than KEH prices, and there's surely no reason to pay more. To make it worth buying on ebay there has to be a discount from the KEH price, or it something KEH doesn't have (like darkroom stuff, which can be had _real_ cheap on ebay). Or something I just can't afford otherwise. I've gotten a few good items from the local craigslist as well.

On ebay it does seem to be better to buy from dealers who sell a lot of photo gear, rather than the "I found this at the estate sale and I don't know if it works" guys. Buying use cameras on ebay means figuring in the cost of a CLA in any case.

msk2193
4-Jan-2011, 08:54
I have never been burned by buying from an e-bay seller with a very high satisfaction rating over 50+ selling experience.

Most of the tools we use are mechanical with very little that can go wrong with it. Paypal provides a decent security blanket in case the merchandise is not as it is described.

Now, on certain camera bodies and lenses I am willing to pay full brick & mortar retail if the price variance is less than 25% between old and new. Try to find an excellent, but used 110mm center filter for instance!

On the digital side, however, a warranty has significant value and I will most often only buy new - and then preferably from my local dealer before I go to B&H.

Gem Singer
4-Jan-2011, 09:09
The old axiom holds true here:

"You only get what you pay for".

Just because the price was low doesn't mean you got a bargain.

Craig's List and Ebay are risky places to deal with.

It's safer to deal with a trustworthy seller who knows what they are talking about.

msk2193
4-Jan-2011, 09:16
Yea I know.
I have indeed bought many items from trustworthy sources and on one occasion still had to have a CLA performed for the lens to function! :D :D
To date that makes 2 CLA's, once form a know seller, the other on a KEH-sourced item; never from an e-bay seller or any members who had their products listed on this forum -- and I have bought way too much here!

Gem Singer
4-Jan-2011, 10:04
Michael,

Were those two shutters that required CLA's defective or inoperable when you purchased them?

If so, you should have returned them, or asked the seller to pay for the CLA.

A common problem with older shutters, the lube begins to dry up causing them to be inaccurate.

I have seen cases where the seller attempted to repair a faulty shutter by them self, failed in the attempt, and sold the lens/shutter as exc,+ condition.

John Kasaian
4-Jan-2011, 10:15
My preference is to buy locally or from someone off this forum. Being able to physically handle an item or talk to the person who has used it is a definate advantage. Some of my best gear I've come across came from local, professional studios who went digital! Next would be Midwest, Keh, Equinox or another highly regarded merchant. These are great people with great products who give great service. A very distant third(a speck on the distant horizon actually) is ebay. Other than a few ebayers whose reputation I trust, if I can't "steal" it on ebay it isn't worth the odds. Ebay is good for very esoteric stuff--I can't imagine where else I'd have found my Panavision changing bag, for example, or a mint 19" APO Artar and and equally mint 10" WF Ektar for $400, but those are exceptions(and even then, I would have to wait years to find an APO or WF on ebay at those prices, or buy the same lens from Midwest for a couple of hundred dollars more and be out shooting!. )
Usually the scenario runs something like this: I'm looking for 5x7 film holders for an example. Zippy has a stack that either belonged to his Aunt or he picked up at a storage sale and I can win them with a bid of $8 each, or I can call Jim at Midwest and buy a stack of used in the brand I prefer for maybe $15 each.
Zippy's stack needs to be cleaned and retaped, a couple of darkslides or light traps are cracked and unusable. Out of ten holders I can cobble up maybe seven good ones with a few evenings work. After testing them with paper, maybe I've only got five or six usable ones.
Then the Midwest stack shows up, I give them a quick vacum 'cause they are already very clean. Dark slides and light traps look fine. I test them with paper and maybe find one or two leakers, so I send them back and Jim sends me replacements and after testing all is right and good with the world :D

Now, sometimes I have lucked out on holders I've bought on ebay---don't get me wrong, it is possible----but it is rare. I find that buying on ebay is like buying a restoration project--if I want, I can expect to put in some time and maybe learn about how something works('cause I had to take it apart and figure out how to fix it) that it part of the fun but if I want to go out now and make photographsa bona fide dealer who wants me as a customer is the most efficient scource and when all the dust clears, is likely the most economical as well. For new photographers I heartily recommend Midwest(and a few other outfits lke KEH) because there are few things more frustrating than buying your first LF camera and finding it doesn't work---that there are light leaks or the shutter is frozen or the tripod screw hole is stripped or the locks don't tighten or the holders are the wrong type. Ebay can very likely be the "kiss of death" for a beginner, so don't go there! At least until you know what you're doing and what risks are involved.

mikebarger
4-Jan-2011, 10:26
My luck on the forums is just so-so.

One item had a defect the seller didn't see on a lens (it happens).

A different seller on a forum, selling a MF body....it was pretty close to deceitful advertising. In the MF case PayPal was of no help. They said if you got a camera body and it was the correct manufacturer, condition, right or wrong model, and non operational issues were an issue between buyer and seller (so much for the great protection from Paypal for buyers). I sent the camera body back anyway and the buyer after some months sent a PayPal for about two thirds of the selling price. I gave up $100 plus shipping both ways.

I've bought 5 to 10 other items on the forums, mostly under $100 and those all went well.

That MF body was so over stated I didn't want it even if I didn't get any of my money back.

Ebay, I buy low planning a CLA and have been very happy with this plan. Only once did I end up putting more into a Hassy lens than a CLA. In that case the seller stated the problem, I just guessed wrong on what it would cost to repair.

Mike

Bob Kerner
4-Jan-2011, 10:30
I find that buying on ebay is like buying a restoration project--if I want, I can expect to put in some time and maybe learn about how something works('cause I had to take it apart and figure out how to fix it) that it part of the fun but if I want to go out now and make photographs

You've exactly described my first experience trying to buy a Crown, albeit from a big-name merchant. The price was attractive but once I got it home and went over it head to toe, I realized it needed a GG, lensboard and so forth. I actually started pricing the parts when I realized that I was looking at another month before I could start using it with confidence and joy. I bought it to shoot with, not as a DIY repair project.

This goes to show that buying from brick and mortar can be risky too.

mikebarger
4-Jan-2011, 10:32
On film holders, I've bought 45 or so 4X5 holders on ebay from different sellers all Elite's, never spending more than $6.00 each (not including shipping) and not one has had an issue.

I just watch for sales with 6 or more at a time, look the picture over close, and inquire if any leakers/damaged ones can be sent back.

No issues.

Jim Galli
4-Jan-2011, 10:53
Just returned a lens that was hopelessly mickey-moused beyond repair to an Ebay seller. He was apologetic and refunded my purchase price before he had the lens back in hand. I don't consider Ebay an un-acceptable risk to buyers. It's getting sort of un-acceptable to be a seller there these days though.

Many sellers here will "warranty" their items. I'd far rather work to do whatever it takes to keep someone happy than have my reputation tarnished here. Large Format is actually a very small - ish community.

rdenney
4-Jan-2011, 14:00
I bought it to shoot with, not as a DIY repair project.

Remember that the last Crown Graphic was made in 1973, and most are much older, made when they were the standard among press photographers. Unless you buy one that has been carefully restored, I doubt that any could be expected to be perfect. So, it's not a matter of comparing expensive brick-and-mortar stores to cheap online stores, or expensive online stores to cheap ebay sales, it's a matter of buying an expensive fully restored Graphic or an old user. And just about any old user will require something.

Graphics were used heavily by their owners back in the day, and most have been sitting neglected on a shelf since then. They were not amateur cameras that only got used gently on weekends. If you don't pay for a restoration, you can probably expect any old Crown to be some sort of a DIY repair project.

The good news is that unlike most cameras, they are easy to work on, even by do-it-yourselfers.

Rick "thinking a full restoration would drive the price up much higher than the typical $200-300 price of user Graphics" Denney

Frank Petronio
4-Jan-2011, 14:27
I once gladly paid $450 for a Graphic because I needed it overnighted and had to know I was getting one in good condition for a shoot coming up shortly after.

But I've also gotten near mint ones for $150.

I simply pass on anything that looks shakey or if the seller is ignorant, unless I throw a bid out their for the "salvage value" of a complete junker. You can always resell the focusing hood and the back for $80+ most days.

msk2193
4-Jan-2011, 16:06
Michael,

Were those two shutters that required CLA's defective or inoperable when you purchased them?

If so, you should have returned them, or asked the seller to pay for the CLA.

A common problem with older shutters, the lube begins to dry up causing them to be inaccurate.

I have seen cases where the seller attempted to repair a faulty shutter by them self, failed in the attempt, and sold the lens/shutter as exc,+ condition.

Eugene....

1 was inoperable at a couple of speeds, the KEH was a rangefinder issue not a lens problem.
2. I could not get myself to ask a pensioner to pay for a CLA. I figured it was an honest oversight on his part.
3. I fully understand that, and always make sure the shutters work before I shlep the bag all over the place!
And finally 4, I have not come across a lens that was repaired by the seller. I guess I have been lucky in the trades I have made.

goamules
4-Jan-2011, 16:42
Remember that the last Crown Graphic was made in 1973, and most are much older, made when they were the standard among press photographers. Unless you buy one that has been carefully restored, I doubt that any could be expected to be perfect. So, it's not a matter of comparing expensive brick-and-mortar stores to cheap online stores, or expensive online stores to cheap ebay sales, it's a matter of buying an expensive fully restored Graphic or an old user. And just about any old user will require something.

Graphics were used heavily by their owners back in the day, and most have been sitting neglected on a shelf since then. They were not amateur cameras that only got used gently on weekends. If you don't pay for a restoration, you can probably expect any old Crown to be some sort of a DIY repair project.
...

What I've found is the Graflex cameras are bulletproof. Unless one is missing parts or has been beaten on, there isn't much that "sitting neglected on a shelf" is going to hurt. The covering can be scuffed. The rails could be bent or missing infinity stops. All this can be seen in decent photographs. But basically it's a tough box that was used by the press because they didn't break. I'm not sure what has to be "restored" on one. Now the shutter on any camera is the delicate working part, but if you're talking about just the camera, I wouldn't pay a premium if I had time to shop.

goamules
4-Jan-2011, 16:50
$140 auction "take a chance" Speed. Ektar 4.7 in Graphex works flawlessly. Velostigmat in Betax so-so. Rangefinder worked, bellows fine, heck even the light bulb in the Kalart "night vision" thing worked. Oh yeah, with a flash, reflectors...etc, etc. Personally, I like taking risks with the auctions.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1029/859678033_7c5e907f75_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1022/859678023_76b571be28_z.jpg

rdenney
4-Jan-2011, 20:03
What I've found is the Graflex cameras are bulletproof. Unless one is missing parts or has been beaten on, there isn't much that "sitting neglected on a shelf" is going to hurt. The covering can be scuffed. The rails could be bent or missing infinity stops. All this can be seen in decent photographs. But basically it's a tough box that was used by the press because they didn't break. I'm not sure what has to be "restored" on one. Now the shutter on any camera is the delicate working part, but if you're talking about just the camera, I wouldn't pay a premium if I had time to shop.

Here are things difficult to see in pictures:

1. Pinholes (and sometimes even cracks) in the bellows.

2. Corroded pins on the rear shutter (relevant to Speed Graphics only, of course).

3. Non-existent silvering on the rangefinder mirror.

4. Linkages missing in the rangefinder mechanism.

5. Unknown or incorrect cams in top rangefinders (which are hard to find, unlike those in the Super Graphics)

6. Beds that are tweaked and misaligned.

7. Front standard clamps that are rusted underneath the part the seller polished for the ebay ad photo.

8. Missing washers and other bits from slide clamps, etc., which were lost when "overhauled" by someone who didn't know what they were doing, which is probably quite a lot of DIYers who don't take care.

9. Dead front shutters, for which there are few replacement parts available.

10. Missing bits that are not reflected in photos, or that a new Graphic buyer might not know to check for, such as focus scales, tilt/rise thumbscrews, side shutter button bits, and so on.

It has taken me some effort to get the top-rangefinder Pacemaker Speed Graphic I bought last year into a state of good maintenance, including buying a couple of different parts grab-bags and a camera carcass (cheap because it was a 3x4), and spending several hours on it. And I'm still missing one or two little things. I paid $300 for a camera that looked pretty good in the pictures, mostly because it had the specific features I wanted and had not seen all that frequently. But I've paid over $100 since then to find the parts I need, and I'm still not really sure the bed on the camera is really straight--the lens seems to have a slight swing when it is locked down square with the rail.

Yes, they are pretty bulletproof, but that doesn't mean the little things that can be wrong or missing can't nickel and dime a new owner, both in dollars and hours, if the new owner wants the camera not to have issues. Really what makes them bulletproof is not their toughness, but their willingness to work acceptably even when they are not in a state of good maintenance. They are sorta like my funky Ukrainian cameras, but for a different reason. None of those Ukrainian cameras really work exactly as they are supposed to, and most people trade around with them until they find one with faults that don't undermine their particular requirements.

Rick "not talking about scuffs" Denney

Brian Ellis
4-Jan-2011, 20:45
I've paid a somewhat higher price for something from Midwest Photo Exchange because I've consistently been treated extremely well by Jim. But except for that one seller, I buy from ebay or anywhere else I can get the best price as long as the seller has 100% positive feedback on ebay (unless it's a dealer who has tens of thousands of transactions) or is someone here or in another forum with a good history.

I've never had a bad transaction on ebay in the 100 or so times I've bought or sold over the course of maybe 10 years. I think the most important thing when buying on ebay or anywhere else is to have an in-depth knowledge of the item you're buying. Problems tend to come up when a buyer doesn't really know the equipment that well and so doesn't know what questions to ask or doesn't understand the significance of red flags in the listing that a knowledgeable buyer would catch.

John Kasaian
4-Jan-2011, 21:09
You've exactly described my first experience trying to buy a Crown, albeit from a big-name merchant. The price was attractive but once I got it home and went over it head to toe, I realized it needed a GG, lensboard and so forth. I actually started pricing the parts when I realized that I was looking at another month before I could start using it with confidence and joy. I bought it to shoot with, not as a DIY repair project.

This goes to show that buying from brick and mortar can be risky too.

There are plenty of big name merchants who have lousy reputations. These will often sell "discount" gear and they are more known for cheap pricing rather than used LF gear. I find can trust merchants who have excellent reputations--MidWest, KEH, Equinox and others and the price, while not "discount" are very fair. I don't feel cheated, nor will I feel that I've cheated someone else.

Bob McCarthy
4-Jan-2011, 21:29
In phase 2 of my large format experience begun 6, maybe seven years ago, I have accumulated much of my equipment used from many sources, but primarily eBay and this forum. After 50,possibly more Transactions, I've only had 2 go bad.

Both were on this site and in both cases the seller was a professional seller, not an active participant. Regarding these transactions, the prior history was a total of 4 posts combined.


I will never buy anything from a seller with a history of 2 posts again. I know buyer beware, but most around here are fair with each other and make things right.

Bob

goamules
5-Jan-2011, 08:14
Yeah, besides the Speed Graphic I posted, I've bought about 300 LF items, and quite a few vintage 35mm rangefinders, and a lot of antique watches and other items on FeeBay since 97. I can remember one lens that had a ton of unmentioned scratches. And maybe a couple lenses that weren't quite right. But again, I paid a small fraction of what the retailers charge, so I'm always ahead, only few bad deals after hundreds of good buys. Win some - lose some. I like the game.

But I'm sure some can get unlucky on their first try with a Crown or Speed Graphic. I agree with Brian, you really need to do your research before jumping. And be willing to take a chance. But that's the difference between paying retail and "picking" at flea markets, antique shops, live auctions, internet auctions....

Dan Fromm
5-Jan-2011, 10:30
Garrett, I'm with you, sort of. I've bought many lenses via eBay, from sellers on bulletin boards, sellers on the French and Dutch equivalents of Craigslist, and dealers' sites. I've bought a few cameras, none LF, via eBay.

So far, just a few clinkers, all priced well under market. In general, if I can't get the thing for less than the going rate I do without. Paying less than the going rate is a way of self-insuring.

Buying used gear is always a gamble. The real questions here are whether insurance against getting a piece of junk when ordering non-junk (a) is available and (b) is worth the price. I'm not sure how available it is unless buying from very reputable store-front merchants (sort of including KEH), am fairly sure it is over-priced.

There's another kind of gamble for which no insurance is available. I've bought lenses from remote sellers, mainly via eBay, without being sure just what the lens was. For example, my first Reichert Neupolars when no one knew what a Neupolar was. Similarly, my first Luminar (a 25/3.5 in chrome livery and badged Zeiss-Winkel). Most of those gambles have worked out very well. A discussion of that kind of risk may merit another thread, though.

Cheers,

Dan

Jim Galli
5-Jan-2011, 10:51
A couple of months ago I paid a guy in Germany $126 for a 240 G-Claron lens. It never showed up and being nice guy that I am, the time limit at Ebay and PayPal to do anything, expired.

So, I'm out $126 bucks plus whatever the profit I expected when I re-sold it here was after it was checked and serviced as required.

Just pinched myself...........yep, I'm still here. Life goes on. I'm a million dollars worth of experiences ahead by not being so damn cautious I never do anything.

Part of that is in my personality profile. I don't look down on the cautious 'slow movers', but I'm very glad NOT to be in that group.

goamules
5-Jan-2011, 11:08
A couple of months ago I paid a guy in Germany $126 for a 240 G-Claron lens. It never showed up and being nice guy that I am, the time limit at Ebay and PayPal to do anything, expired.

So, I'm out $126 bucks plus whatever the prophet I expected when I re-sold it here was after it was checked and serviced as required.

Just pinched myself...........yep, I'm still here. Life goes on. I'm a million dollars worth of experiences ahead by not being so damn cautious I never do anything.

Part of that is in my personality profile. I don't look down on the cautious 'slow movers', but I'm very glad NOT to be in that group.

Exactly. If I were cautious I wouldn't have gone in the Navy, lived in Hawaii, rode a motorcycle through Mexico, become an Engineer, changed to a training consultant, shot antique target rifles in national matches, gone backpacking alone into the wilderness, learned to let mules carry my packs, etc....or started in LF and Wetplate!

David Karp
5-Jan-2011, 11:51
The best source I have used, without a doubt, is Jim at MPEX. Fair, honest, knowledgeable. He will even tell you if he thinks the item is not right for you - thereby talking himself out of a sale! KEH is fine if you absolutely know what you want, but they don't come close. Usually, Jim will beat their prices if he has the same item in stock. Plus, Jim will pull the item, describe it to you, even send you some digital photos. Sometimes, KEH was willing to pull an item from stock for me, but the description over the phone has not come from someone familiar with LF photography.

This forum has also been a good source for me. I have only purchased from people who have been hanging around for a while. Every transaction has been perfect.

I feel very comfortable buying from any of those sources.

I have also purchased several items on EBay. Notable deals include: a 210mm Caltar II-N for $200 (back when that was an exceptional deal), a 180mm Fujinon W for $100, and a camera that was nearly free after I sold off most of the other items that came with it. Despite the fact that I have gotten some great deals, EBay almost always makes me nervous. I have had a few transactions where the items I ordered turned out to be not as described, or had operational problems. In each case, the seller just refunded my money, and did not even want the items back! I may be in the middle of a problem on an EBay purchase right now, but that remains to be seen. If it becomes a problem, it will be my first.

All that said, I prefer buying from MPEX, KEH, or this forum. I have to be getting a good deal that is significantly better than offered by MPEX or KEH before I buy on EBay.

Michael Graves
5-Jan-2011, 12:17
It depends on the item for me. I tend to buy a lot of things on impulse because somebody is selling it at a good price and I see it and say, "Hot damn! I always wanted to try one of those!" That sort of thing comes from eBay or here. If it is an item that I know I want to use for a long, long time (like my Mamiya 7), I buy it from a trusted dealer like MPEX or KEH. Call it the paranoia factor.

John Koehrer
5-Jan-2011, 15:20
Since the prices are so reasonable today, it doesn't make too much sense to pay $600 for a Camera that sells for $125-$250 every day. If you feel more secure spending $350 to have a warrantee, it's your money.
I buy from the bay regularly & just have to be conscious of who you buy from

engl
6-Jan-2011, 18:20
With about 100 transactions on eBay, I've really only had one bad one, and that was for a 200$ Crown Graphic. The seller seemed fairly knowledgeable and had a good history, still the camera had several major issues, some unmentioned, some in direct conflict with the description. I got a 90$ refund, the problem was I had paid very significant shipping costs as well as 25% VAT on the full price+shipping.

Apart from this, I've had a few items with minor problems, either insignificant or for which I have received partial refunds in happy with.

All in all, I consider eBay a great way to buy stuff. Even with the time and money wasted on that Crown, the total savings of using eBay for the 99 other purchases made up for the bad luck with that one item. I'd not consider it reliable in any way, if I know I needed an item, say before a trip, I'd pay more for a direct sale with ability to inspect and return the item.

jp
6-Jan-2011, 19:32
Part of the reason for people not gushing praise over ebay is that it is what risk we might be very comfortable with, we don't want to inflict that same risk on someone with less experience or perhaps someone nieve. We don't know if someone is needing the camera next week for something important, or does or doesn't have the skills to hit the ground running with a purchase, etc... Sorta like saying, yeh you can run that stop sign if you want, but not realizing the listener was driving a school bus or a hazmat truck. So the safest suggestion is a often first recommended but ebay can also be a nice option.

We get lots of ebay stuff at work and personal activities and have a feedback over 600. perhaps 1-2% of the time something either doesn't show up or isn't as described. Pretty low risk for stuff our life or business doesn't depend on getting in a timely manner, and paypal will straighten it out if you have the patience of a saint. That risk is very reasonable for the right deal sometimes. However they are not the only place to get stuff and their fees to sellers are encouraging a whole variety of methods of selling things on the Internet.

Bob Kerner
9-Jan-2011, 19:27
I'm a million dollars worth of experiences ahead by not being so damn cautious I never do anything.



An update. Decided to drop the analysis paralysis and dip my toe into the Ebay camera waters. Found a nice-looking specimen for < $300 with shipping. That's exactly half what the local brick and mortar quoted.

Of course thirty minutes after I won the auction, someone posted two in the For Sale area here:eek: