Airports and 4x5 film

[konakoa]

In a few short weeks I'm off on a month long vacation. I'm bringing my 4x5 and as much film as I can muster together (six 50-sheet boxes and a large pile of 120 film) with me. The film is going in my carry on, NOT in my checked baggage.

The question is: for those of you who have flown recently with boxes of 4x5 film, what have your experiences with the TSA been? I won't be asking for hand inspections, I have no problem with them using the passenger carry on x-ray machine--all the film is ISO 100--but if they pull my bag aside I can not have them open the sheet film boxes. Are the agents aware why these film boxes can't be opened?

Further, would they have a reaction to large format lenses? I'll also have those in my carry on. Will they have a problem with the lenses on 5 1/2" Sinar-type metal lens boards?

[Noah A]

I'm sure the lenses won't be a problem. Might be best to travel with the apertures and shutter open, I've often had security folks try to look through my lenses to make sure there's nothing in there that's not supposed to be.

I've never had a problem with rollfilm but will travel for the first time with 4x5 very soon. First on a domestic trip (in the U.S.) and later this year internationally.

I'm curious to hear others respond to your question about film...anyone?

[vinny]

I've only had issues with film when I asked for a hand inspection, usually resulting in me saying fuck it and putting it through the machine because they want to open the boxes. Them checking your bag is so random now and you won't have a problem with your lenses. At least I never have. For hand inspections I've had them just swab the boxes (both sealed and unsealed) and I've had them make me set up my changing bag to open the boxes and put their fingerprints on the film.

[BetterSense]

I don't stress out about the xray machines, but I don't send sheet film through the airport at all, because I don't trust TSA not to open the boxes. There was a guy on APUG earlier this year complaining about dozens of sheets from his expensive trip that were ruined because TSA opened the box, even though he had the box clearly marked and clearly verbally told them not to open the boxes. When I travel with sheet film I mail any exposed sheets USPS.

I don't really fly anymore anyway ever since they made it illegal for people with dignity, so really it's quite a relief.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Fuji Quickloads and hand inspection. Pat down and explosives sniffing, yes-- but my film isn't going to see the cumulative effects of getting X-rayed, either.

[Louie Powell]

Wife and I travel to the West Coast once each year to visit our son, and I always take the LF kit. The camera, lenses, holders, etc are in a backpack (on my back), and I take a 50 sheet box of film and three empty film boxes to bring back the exposed film - this all goes in a small 'camera bag' that is my 'personal item' (in TSA terms). The tripod goes either into a checked suitcase, or else a canvas tripod bag that is checked.

I always simply put the bags on the belt and let them go through the normal carry-on scanning process, and the TSA have simply waved me through with no hassle or question - with two exceptions. In one case, they opened the backpack for a 'wipe test'. The didn't take anything out - just wiped the wand across the holders. In the other case, the inspector asked to open the backpack, but then we had a long conversation about photography, so I don't know whether he had concern about what I was carrying, or that he simply was another photographer who wanted to chat.

I always take a changing bag (in the 'personal item' bag) in case the inspectors want to open holders or the film boxes, but the only time I've actually had to use it has been when the hotel bathroom had a window and couldn't be converted to a makeshift darkroom for changing film.

So my bottom line is that taking LF equipment and film is NOT a problem. Frankly, my fountain pen has wn more strange looks than my LF equipment and film.

I have not taken my LF kit outside the US. The TSA runs the show domestically, but when are outside the US the rules often are different.

[Ed Kelsey]

I've had it with flying; if I can't drive it I'm not going.

The Neo-Facist regime is becoming way too intrusive.

[Bill McMannis]

If possible, do yourself the favor and have the film Fedex'ed to your hotel. Let the hotel know to expect the shipment and they will turn it over to you at check-in. (Yeah, Fedex might X-Ray it, but they will not open it). When you are ready to return, Fedex the film back to your home.

For years I use to fly ever other week from the midwest to LA. I simply drive now as, like so many other posters, just do not want to subject myself to the TSA's "security."

[rguinter]

I've had it with flying; if I can't drive it I'm not going.

The Neo-Facist regime is becoming way too intrusive.

I agree 100% with Ed. But I have to fly a half-dozen times or so each year for business.

The good news is I will be retiring before the cumulative x-rays they are now exposing us to will do me any serious harm... unless of course they pump the power levels up a few notches.

After travelling several hundred business flights over the course of my career I am glad I am not starting out now. Just the increase in cosmic radiation exposure alone over the several thousand hours I've been at 30,000 feet is enough for me.

But off the soap box and back to film: I have not had any trouble so far at American airports and I carry sheet film and 120 roll all the time. Have for many years.

But in Canada I routinely have trouble. For details see my thread here from several months ago titled: Next Time to Quebec I Think I'm Gonna Drive. Quebec security is the only airport security I've ever been through where they wanted to pull darkslides on film holders with film in it and open 120 rolls. Unfortunately the 120 rolls I had were packaged in aluminum foil and they wanted to open them all up even though they had already gone through the x-ray scanner. I had to beg them not to do this and they finally agreed to open only one. Thankfully they did not insist on unrolling it once they saw what was inside. But who knows... that may be coming up on my next trip.

Anyway my suggestion is to place all film in a separate plastic tub at the security checkpoint and send it through the carry-on x-ray machine. I have not had any damage to unexposed films with up to 4-scans. But I don't recommend putting the film in with your cameras. My MF/LF cameras always get multiple scans and sometimes they even pick up the pack and carry it back to the input conveyor and send it through again. Then they always make me open it up and take everything out anyway. Such a routine now that I'm used to it and expect it.

And never, absolutely never, put any film in with checked baggage. These bags often get x-rayed with seriously high doses.

Someone else suggested mailing exposed films back to yourself and this is probably a good idea. I did this from Toronto last year and sent it UPS Ground. If you need to fill out a declaration form be sure to label it "Personal Effects" otherwise you will get charged import duty. And I label the outside "Photography Film: Do Not X-Ray." Whether this helps or not I can't really say but so far I've not had any damage.

All I have to offer. Check the other thread I mentioned and there are several additional threads here from last year that cover the same topic.

Cheers and best of luck with your trip.

Bob G.

[Kevin Bradbury]

Last year I had film come back from the lab with what I *think* was x-ray damage. Since then, I have requested hand check for all my film, including sheet-film boxes and loaded film holders. I have not had any problems with TSA. I always have a printout from TSA's website that advises hand check for sheet film and large format film; sometimes the printout is helpful, and other times it is unnecessary.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1035.shtm

[Kevin Bradbury]

If you send it through the X-ray machines you shouldn't have any problem at all. While they may want to do a hand-check of the bag, you should already be through your own scan by then and can make sure they don't open any film boxes.

[Shadowtracker]

Thanks for the link Kevin - that might come in handy.

I don't fly much; but when I have, it's been a hassle every step of the way - probably because I have long hair and a beard - so much for no profiling. I can do without the games they play. I drive most places I'm going to anyway, and like one other person said; If I can't get there by driving, I probably don't need to go there.

Tim

[Frank Petronio]

You know, I've never seen it written that the shippers, USPS, UPS, FedEx, don't X-Ray our film too. It probably doesn't matter but shipping film to avoid damage means letting it out of your control -- pretty much a 6 and 1 toss-up if you ask me.

[Thebes]

All my film comes mail order, so its already been zapped by anything they might zap it with, and its done no harm. I remember years ago ordering some aero film and the seller made a big deal about shipping it through a smaller carrier and labeling it as return to sender if it still had to be xrayed, so I suppose that fedex, ups and usps must xray at least some parcels.

In the particularly unlikely event I choose to fly in the USA (Land of the Free?#$*! omfg) I would not consider letting the TSA handle my exposed films. I don't see some minimum wage troglodyte working at UPS and opening the boxes, but I could see myself being tased to death while trying to stop Gonzo da Gropinator from ruining a few weeks of shooting.

[rguinter]

...In the particularly unlikely event I choose to fly in the USA (Land of the Free?#$*! omfg) I would not consider letting the TSA handle my exposed films. I don't see some minimum wage troglodyte working at UPS and opening the boxes, but I could see myself being tased to death while trying to stop Gonzo da Gropinator from ruining a few weeks of shooting.

Then what do you plan to do with them?

Perhaps you have a suggestion that I haven't thought of.

But I find that any time I fly the security staff at the airport handles virtually everything I own... and exposed films are no exception and no way to stop them.

Bob G.

[David de Gruyl]

I fly a lot.

Put the film in a separate bag to go through the scanner. I have not had any issues with the scanner.

The one thing that always triggers (and I mean always) is my filter stack. Also, I think my medium format lenses might (not positive). That's why I pull the film out in a separate bag: so they don't think they have to open the boxes and whatnot. I have found that being nice and polite (and not acting frustrated) goes a really long way in dealing with airport security in any country.

[jp]

I flew two years ago with LF film & camera in my carryon. Got wiped/swabbed every time.

Various reactions to film in boxes. Some places would consider the hand inspection to be swiping it. Others said a hand inspection meant opening the box, and they don't know enough to not open the box. They try to keep you busy chitchatting about your tickets or other things while they hand inspect it so you can't be part of the process. I neatly duct taped the exposed film closed to give me an extra few seconds of their tampering. I ended up letting them xray it instead of hand inspect it.

I would advise mailing film home definitely, and perhaps pre-mailing it if you can.

[Noah A]

...I have found that being nice and polite (and not acting frustrated) goes a really long way in dealing with airport security in any country.

This is very true. While I question the effectiveness of the TSA as much as anyone (and I'll leave it at that to avoid getting into politics), they're there to do a job and while you may think their tactics are flawed or invasive if you have an attitude or are visibly frustrated you're only going to make it worse for yourself.

I recently flew through Newark when it was very busy and I had more than 100 rolls of 120 film (exposed film not in foil packs, all in big ziploc bags). The screener was obviously not thrilled with having to swab it all, but I was friendly, I explained that I was a professional and that this film was very important to me both personally and financially, smiled a lot and joked about it. And by the end she was very helpful and she even took extra time to help me flatten out the film in the ziplocs so they would fit back in my bag.

I'm heading out to the Western US for a project soon and I plan to fly with my film, but my lab is in LA anyway so I'll ship my film to the lab before flying home.

I've yet to have any problems with x-rays with USPS priority mail (to which I add insurance and tracking). Same with UPS ground,which is how I get all of my film from B&H.

On the way to my destination my film boxes will be sealed, which might help.

The only thing I know for sure is that I'll never limit my travel experiences because of a little hassle at security. One of the things that drew me to photography as a career is that I wanted to see the world. I'd switch to digital before limiting my travel (although I really don't want to do that either!).

Out of curiosity, are the sealed film envelopes that kodak film comes in light-tight if you remove them from the box?

[rdenney]

I fly all the time (40,000 miles last year). Some airports are pickier than others, with the smaller airports usually being pickier.

I returned from Denver once with a Pentax 6x7 200mm lens and a chimney finder in my carry-on, and when the guy stopped the belt to look more closely, I told him that it was a camera lens. He said he knew that, but that I'd forgotten to remove my plastic bag of toothpaste and deodorant. I slapped my forehead, he let it through. That's a pretty typical experience. I had to board late and check my carry-on at the last minute, and I found that far more troublesome than the inspection. I was returning from Seattle with a Pentax 6x7 and a 75mm shift lens in my bag, which I pulled out and carried onto the plane loose while they checked the bag. That's about the worst it has been for me.

I've never had a TSA inspector want to look at my film more closely, and it has been a very long time (maybe five years) since a backpack full of cameras resulted in an automatic hand inspection. I do not, however, carry sheet film--it has all been in 120 rolls.

The only time I've had a problem was with some freezer-bait Ektachrome 1000 that I'd taken to Alaska in hopes of seeing auroras. That roll came out...thin. I've never had any problem I could detect with 50- or 100-speed film.

I don't always carry cameras, and often when I do they are digital to avoid problems. When I carry film, I use medium-format--the view camera is just too bulky for flying.

You guys who refuse to fly because TSA=Gestapo must never want to go to Alaska. I'm going in May, and will carry a bunch of film--again. I agree that dignity is in short supply in an airport but this has been true for a very long time, and it is true in different ways outside the U.S.

Rick "who has traveled to four continents in the last two years" Denney

[Bob Kerner]

The take-away message is: the system is wildly inconsistent! You may get hand inspected and they'll respect that there's exposed film in the box, or someone may try to open the box when you're not looking.

I haven't traveled with sheet film yet. Am considering it for a trip to New Orleans later this month and I'm troubled about what to do. In the past, with roll film I've had the gammut of experiences from polite understanding professionals to people who have it in their mind that they can and will open every container and poke around.

I don't see myself deploying the Harrison tent to allow someone to put their fingers on my film, so I'll probably mail myself 10 sheets of film and mail it back from the hotel or mail it directly to the lab.

I doubt USPS or UPS is xraying ground parcels---or if they are it's low dose---otherwise, we'd be hearing from people getting their stuff back from mail order labs all fouled up.

[Frank Petronio]

I don't know of anyone who has had the TSA actually open a film box on them unless they are not paying attention. All you have to do is tell them it is film and they'll swab it instead.

The point about putting your film into a clear plastic bag and passing it through in a separate bin from your main carry-on is a good one, so that they don't stall and cook it in the X-ray chamber.

I don't fly as much as a couple years ago but mostly my film got swabbed or ignored. If you have a lot, allow extra time.

I'll still argue that it is safer to keep the film in your possession than to be shipping it to third parties like hotels, etc.

[rdenney]

I'll still argue that it is safer to keep the film in your possession than to be shipping it to third parties like hotels, etc.

I agree. Hotels are notoriously unreliable receivers of shipments.

But sending it directly to the lab from your vacation spot is a good idea if you have access to a post office, assuming you use a mailorder lab anyway. That saves a shipment, reduces cost, and gets you your processed results back more quickly. It takes preparation, though. Have order forms, etc., with you before you leave.

Rick "who has had mixed results with hotel bell captains and desk clerks" Denney

[GPS]

...
The point about putting your film into a clear plastic bag and passing it through in a separate bin from your main carry-on is a good one, so that they don't stall and cook it in the X-ray chamber.

...

I thought we had this already cleared out - when the staff stops the belt and looks at your carry-on secrets it is in no way cooking them any longer than when they are just passing. They just look at still pictures.

[Frank Petronio]

Thanks! See, you're good for something! We don't always have to argue, once in a while you're right ;-0

[GPS]

Frank, love is love...:)

[Sal Santamaura]

...You guys who refuse to fly because TSA=Gestapo must never want to go to Alaska...Rick, there's no ocean between you and Alaska! Ever hear of the Alaska Highway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Highway

[rdenney]

Rick, there's no ocean between you and Alaska! Ever hear of the Alaska Highway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Highway

Even at my advanced stage of earning vacation time, I would have to save for a long time to drive the Alaska Highway. Don't think I haven't dreamed of it. But from Virginia, it's a minimum of three weeks there and three weeks back, plus the time you spend there. I can't carry over enough vacation time for such a trip, even assuming I don't use any of it for several years.

Also, I'll want to build a new engine for my old GMC Motorhome before attempting that trip. There is little forgiveness on that road.

Someday, probably when I'm too old and creaky to do more than look out the window at the scenery.

But in the meantime, flying to Anchorage and renting a motorhome is a pretty good plan, if you can get your stuff there. I'll devote both my carry-ons to photography equipment, one digital and one film. I can live with the loss of dignity and go this year rather than waiting another 15 years so that I can drive, heh.

Rick "no fan of flying but without any real choice" Denney

[jnantz]

i recently flew domestically with a boatload of film ( no sheets )
and had no problems through the scanners or hand inspections.
( asa 25-800 ) ...

[rguinter]

I thought we had this already cleared out - when the staff stops the belt and looks at your carry-on secrets it is in no way cooking them any longer than when they are just passing. They just look at still pictures.

I would use the word "allegedly" cleared out... but to me not definitive.

My stuff often gets backed up and/or picked up and sent through again for another scan. But I carry a pack full of MF panoramic cameras which seems to attract a lot of attention, i.e., the reason I always send film through in a separate plastic bin.

My opinion.

bob G.

[al olson]

I, too, have noted that my gear seems to be scanned and rescanned ... as many as three (or more as I haven't always been watching the whole time).

But I have some strange looking accessories in my LF and MF kits. One time I had a harmonica (chromatica) in a back pack (not containing photo gear) that they asked to see after rescanning it several times because they couldn't figure out what it was.

I am not comfortable with the belief that the scanner only gives it one dose.

[GPS]

I would use the word "allegedly" cleared out... but to me not definitive.

My stuff often gets backed up and/or picked up and sent through again for another scan. But I carry a pack full of MF panoramic cameras which seems to attract a lot of attention, i.e., the reason I always send film through in a separate plastic bin.

My opinion.

bob G.

It goes like this - they can toggle between different electronic filters to see different materials they are looking for. When the shape is for them not familiar or suspect they sometimes need to take a new picture from a different position of your bag. Then they reposition it and it goes back to the oven (they don't like that as it delays the processing of the merchandise). But the new picture is just another scan, nothing to cry about. This procedure is quite rare as they get the info also from the material composition of your stuff and often they prefer to open your case instead of delaying the whole belt. But if they want to know more for a future reference (they too learn day by day new things) they open your mystery merchandise and have a fun time...

[Drew Wiley]

Not long ago I did all my gear carryon, even the tripod. They took my stuff and went through absolutely everything, but wore white gloves and seemed to be very careful to repack all the lenses etc just as they found them. Of course no guarantee that kind of care will happen everywhere. Since I was carrying 100 speed film I just let them run it thru the X ray each time - no problem whatsoever. Checked out both b&w and color film after dev both visually thru printing and with a densitometer. Don't know if I'd be so comfortable with 400 ASA since I'm finicky about shadow values, but they claim anything less than 800 is OK. I generally fly out of Oakland airport. If it was SFO it can be a much bigger hassle - they're really paranoid over there.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Drew, I flew out of Monterey through SFO to PHL in October, and had to change terminals to catch my connecting flight. Had to do TSA twice that morning as the result.

Now, I'm really adverse to X-raying film for it's cumulative effects. I especially don't like having to remember which films have been X-rayed how many times. I carried my Quickloads in a little insulated lunch cooler and requested hand inspection of the film; but apparently that meant everything had to be explosives-sniffed. Also flagged me for a thorough search of every bag and pat-down-- twice. Thankfully, I don't fly with LF very often, I'd rather drive and linger longer unless it's over 2000 miles.

Easy to understand why pros who did have to fly everyday abandoned film in large numbers for an all-digital workflow.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I guess I won't be flying anywhere with my x-ray film then...

[rguinter]

I, too, have noted that my gear seems to be scanned and rescanned ... as many as three (or more as I haven't always been watching the whole time).

But I have some strange looking accessories in my LF and MF kits. One time I had a harmonica (chromatica) in a back pack (not containing photo gear) that they asked to see after rescanning it several times because they couldn't figure out what it was.

I am not comfortable with the belief that the scanner only gives it one dose.

Yes I carry some strange things in my kit also including fuji 617 and widelux cameras that always attract attention. And my gadget bag has small carpenter's levels, clothespins, various nuts and bolts, etc that always get a second look.

And I'm also not sure about the one shot scan either that several members here keep insisting... why would they reposition the pack and back up the conveyor if it were only one shot. With the physical work involved in repositioning a 40-pound pack I am quite sure they are making that effort so they can shoot it again from another angle.

This is the reason for my suggestion to keep film together in a separate tub... it doesn't get the back-and-forth, multi-pass, multi-scan treatment.

Bob G.

[rguinter]

It goes like this - they can toggle between different electronic filters to see different materials they are looking for. When the shape is for them not familiar or suspect they sometimes need to take a new picture from a different position of your bag. Then they reposition it and it goes back to the oven (they don't like that as it delays the processing of the merchandise). But the new picture is just another scan, nothing to cry about. This procedure is quite rare as they get the info also from the material composition of your stuff and often they prefer to open your case instead of delaying the whole belt. But if they want to know more for a future reference (they too learn day by day new things) they open your mystery merchandise and have a fun time...

GPS:

I'm only talking from personal experience of about 100 recent flights since 9/11/2001.

Where precisely are you getting your personal knowledge of x-ray scanning/handling techniques? I'd be curious to know.

Bob G.

[GPS]

...

And I'm also not sure about the one shot scan either that several members here keep insisting... why would they reposition the pack and back up the conveyor if it were only one shot. With the physical work involved in repositioning a 40-pound pack I am quite sure they are making that effort so they can shoot it again from another angle.

...

Bob G.

As said, they reposition your 40-pound pack to see the item of interest from a different angle because they were not able to identify it from the picture taken (shades and shapes are confusing for them). It only takes a new scan - nothing to cry about...

[GPS]

GPS:

I'm only talking from personal experience of about 100 recent flights since 9/11/2001.

Where precisely are you getting your personal knowledge of x-ray scanning/handling techniques? I'd be curious to know.

Bob G.

You have your personal knowledge. I have my knowledge. Stay curious where from. ;)

[rdenney]

This is the reason for my suggestion to keep film together in a separate tub... it doesn't get the back-and-forth, multi-pass, multi-scan treatment.

Yes, they may move a bag back in front of the machine and run it through again after they have removed or repositioned the offending item, but the statement that we have put to rest is the notion that they have a button on the machine that pumps up the dosage for any given item as it passes through. That is not the case with carry-on bags (it is the case, however, with checked bags). And if the belt stops, the scan stops, and all they do is move the image from the previous scan around to study it more closely. When they back up the belt, they are not scanning again--they are repositioning the belt to the point where they stopped looking before so they don't miss anything. Everything on the belt still only gets one blast. The only way for an item to get an extra dose is to be pulled from the belt when it is ejected and placed on the belt upstream of the scanner to be scanned again.

You know when the X-ray is on--the red light is on.

Rick "whose knowledge is based on close observation during 30-50 flights a year" Denney

[Noah A]

Now, I'm really adverse to X-raying film for it's cumulative effects. I especially don't like having to remember which films have been X-rayed how many times. ...

Was your film damaged by the x-ray doses?

I've never been denied a hand-check of my 120 film in the US. Since I switched back to film in mid-2010 I've flown through PHL, EWR, ORD and MIA with no issues and no x-rays. I just (very politely) explain that I'm a professional photographer and that I often push-process my film. When shooting rollfilm I'd also mix a few rolls of 800 speed film in the bags so when asked, I could say that there are a few high-speed rolls in the bags.

I did have my film x-rayed in Lima and Istanbul. But the film (160NC, 400NC, Tri-X) was not affected. In Lima I asked for a hand inspection but they told me the film would be safe. In places where I don't speak the language I usually don't even bother asking and just let them send it through.

I do worry about cumulative effects. Normally I'll buy a batch of fresh film for a trip. (As a working photojournalist/documentary photographer I could easily shoot 100 rolls of 120 or 200 sheets of 4x5 on a 2-week trip.) Whatever film I don't use during the trip I save for projects closer to home. That way my film won't get exposed to x-rays more than once or twice.

I also tend to travel to one destination at once and so I try to limit the number of flight segments and, therefore, the number of screenings. I can't always afford direct flights, but if at all possible I try to connect within the US where I'm fairly certain I'll get a hand-check.

[rguinter]

...I do worry about cumulative effects. Normally I'll buy a batch of fresh film for a trip. (As a working photojournalist/documentary photographer I could easily shoot 100 rolls of 120 or 200 sheets of 4x5 on a 2-week trip.) Whatever film I don't use during the trip I save for projects closer to home. That way my film won't get exposed to x-rays more than once or twice...

I also carry a sharpie marker in my kit.

I strike a line on the end of each 120 roll and film box each time it goes through a scanner. And when I get home I put them aside in the refrigerator in a box labeled "use first."

So far no apparent problems with films that have been scanned twice.

Bob G.

[rguinter]

You have your personal knowledge. I have my knowledge. Stay curious where from. ;)

I'm only trying to separate fact from opinion. So far you have stated nothing that indicates you have any insider knowledge or anything that indicates you fly frequently through different airports.

My opinions are based on experiences that have happened to me over the course of the last ten years.

So if you have some specific expertise that makes your opinions more valuable then please advise.

Bob G.

[rguinter]

...they reposition your 40-pound pack to see the item of interest from a different angle because they were not able to identify it from the picture taken (shades and shapes are confusing for them). It only takes a new scan - nothing to cry about...

Isn't this pretty much what I said?

Why reiterate something I've already stated clearly?

Bob G.

[rguinter]

Yes, they may move a bag back in front of the machine and run it through again after they have removed or repositioned the offending item, but the statement that we have put to rest is the notion that they have a button on the machine that pumps up the dosage for any given item as it passes through. That is not the case with carry-on bags (it is the case, however, with checked bags). And if the belt stops, the scan stops, and all they do is move the image from the previous scan around to study it more closely. When they back up the belt, they are not scanning again--they are repositioning the belt to the point where they stopped looking before so they don't miss anything. Everything on the belt still only gets one blast. The only way for an item to get an extra dose is to be pulled from the belt when it is ejected and placed on the belt upstream of the scanner to be scanned again.

You know when the X-ray is on--the red light is on.

Rick "whose knowledge is based on close observation during 30-50 flights a year" Denney

I'm starting to wonder about everyone's opinions here and why they keep challenging personal observations and experiences.

I've stated clearly, that frequently during my flights since 2001 my carry on backpack has been physically carried off the downstream side of the belt and repositioned on the input side for an additional scan.

Why is this so hard for others to understand or believe?

And my only suggestion as a result of this observation is to put film in a separate tub and send it through the scanner without anything else in it that might attract attention.

This is all I've said here and in several other threads. And it is something that simply makes sense to me that will reduce the cumulative number of exposures from successive scans.

Bob (who only travels about 10-times a year and prefers to sleep at home) G.

[Noah A]

I also carry a sharpie marker in my kit.

I strike a line on the end of each 120 roll and film box each time it goes through a scanner. And when I get home I put them aside in the refrigerator in a box labeled "use first."

So far no apparent problems with films that have been scanned twice.

Bob G.

I basically do the same thing, but I mark it when I get home. Though I guess making marks on 100+ rolls of film would pass time when my flights are delayed:( .

And to reiterate, I've had no problems with ISO 400 film getting zapped 2-3 times.

I do have lead bags that I used pre-9/11. I may consider using them again for overseas trips but as with here in the US, I assume they will just lead to more inspection and they may just cause more trouble than they're worth.

Incidentally, since I went back to film I haven't gotten pulled aside for additional screening and they haven't wanted to hand-check my camera bag after it went through. I use domke satchels so most of the gear is in a single layer, and I guess they can see it well enough with the x-ray.

When I was shooting digital and with all of the electronics I used to carry, they would almost always want to hand-check my camera bag after it went through the x-ray.

[GPS]

I'm only trying to separate fact from opinion. So far you have stated nothing that indicates you have any insider knowledge or anything that indicates you fly frequently through different airports.

My opinions are based on experiences that have happened to me over the course of the last ten years.

So if you have some specific expertise that makes your opinions more valuable then please advise.

Bob G.

You haven't noticed that yet but people have no duty to tell you the source of their knowledge.
The fact that you have some knowledge from your experience does in no way mean that other sources of knowledge are less valid. A doctor doesn't need to have his heart operated to know how to operate hearts neither is his knowledge less valuable because his heart is healthy and yours not...:rolleyes:

[GPS]

Isn't this pretty much what I said?

Why reiterate something I've already stated clearly?

Bob G.

In doing so you just repeated what I said in the post n.31. I don't even ask why.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

If you've got your film in a separate tub, it's pretty easy to request hand inspection and swabbing instead, isn't it? Why subject film to Xrays, at all, so long as other non-invasive procedures are available?

Whether or not an individual's film has yet been hit by a strong enough single dose or enough cumulative doses of Xrays to fog or ruin their film is beside the point. Suggesting that because it hasn't happened to you in your experience, means that it doesn't happen at all or that it's nothing to worry about, to me sounds like going around insisting that folks never get hit by stray bullets because you've been in a bad neighborhood or war zone and heard rounds go off but lived to tell the tale.

Xrays most certainly can have a deleterious effect on film. TSA suddenly cranking up the dosage our bags receive on the conveyor in response to changes in the threat level is something we'd be unlikely to know about until after the damage is done. So, call me a chicken, but to whatever degree possible, I don't subject my films to Xrays. When flying with film, I'll arrive a half an hour earlier than normal to get swabbed and patted down, if necessary, when I request hand inspection. And I fly with Quickloads only.

Realizing QL's won't be around forever, I also mail ahead. This also has meant before mailing or dropping it off, asking a supervisor at a courier service whether they Xray.

(I won't send undeveloped film to the lab via FedX due to a response I got last year--nor do I care to route film anywhere near DC or NYC via the USPS, either.)

[rguinter]

...Incidentally, since I went back to film I haven't gotten pulled aside for additional screening and they haven't wanted to hand-check my camera bag after it went through. I use domke satchels so most of the gear is in a single layer, and I guess they can see it well enough with the x-ray...

Yes that might be the situation with my travel. My backpack is multi-level and I carry a gamut of supplies, lenses, 4-cameras, and misc parts.

With all my trips since 2001, about 100 flights, there has only been two times that the pack has not been double-triple scanned and then opened up and swabbed afterwards.

There is something about the multi-levels and all the misc. parts that causes this I know. But I learned to accept it early on and just give myself an extra 15-minutes for the inspection. No worries.

Bob G.

[rguinter]

In doing so you just repeated what I said in the post n.31. I don't even ask why.

Well then I guess you didn't read my post #9 did you?

And somehow you miss the point that I am merely advising others about experiences I've had personally and how to reduce the number of x-ray scans on their films through security checkpoints if they are inclined to want to do that. And many of us do want to do that.

Me I just let the film go through typically for up to 2-scans, sometimes as many as 4... as I've said very early on in this thread and several others.

So just who is repeating who here!

Bob G.

[ac12]

I had a TSA agent at SFO tell me that she HAD TO inspect the film as she opened the sealed box and rip the foil bag around the 120 roll. Totally pissed me off, but I did not have the time to stop her and get her supervisor involved. Luckily she did not want to unroll the film to inspect it.

[GPS]

Well then I guess you didn't read my post #9 did you?

And somehow you miss the point that I am merely advising others about experiences I've had personally and how to reduce the number of x-ray scans on their films through security checkpoints if they are inclined to want to do that. And many of us do want to do that.

Me I just let the film go through typically for up to 2-scans, sometimes as many as 4... as I've said very early on in this thread and several others.

So just who is repeating who here!

Bob G.

Bob, I read it, so what? I just explained why they reposition bags and that people doesn't need to be afraid if the bag goes there again. Take your evening tea and be happy.;)

[rdenney]

I've stated clearly, that frequently during my flights since 2001 my carry on backpack has been physically carried off the downstream side of the belt and repositioned on the input side for an additional scan.

Where did I claim this did not happen?

I was distinguishing between two processes. The first process is what the airlines use with checked baggage: When they can't see through something, they increase the intensity of the x-rays until they can (or until they decide to inspect by hand). They do not do that with carry-on bags, primarily because the scanner is insufficiently shielded. Instead, they use a second process: they run it back through just as you describe. Some have refuted the first as an argument against the second, and vice versa. Some have argued such that they apparently believe that if the belt stops, the bag is getting more dosage, which is not the case. So, as I said (which reinforced your experience), the only way it gets more exposure is if they run it through a second time. With everyone talking past one another, the problem is not restatement or credentials, but clarity. I thought if I wrote it down clearly once, it would still the troubled waters. Apparently, I was wrong.

Rick "sheesh" Denney

[Noah A]

One more question as I start to pack for my next trip--Does it seem to matter to the security folks if you bring factory-sealed boxes instead of ones that have been opened and taped shut?

I ask because one of the films I may use (the new Portra 400) only comes in 10-sheet boxes. And they take up a LOT of space if you plan to bring a lot of film. I'm thinking about combining boxes to save space.

I wish Kodak would sell it in a 50-sheet box!

Also, I don't think anyone answered my question before--Are the envelopes inside of the Kodak film boxes light-tight if you take them out of the box? I don't plan to travel that way of course, but I was just wondering what would happen if a box came open or if a security agent opened it and found the sealed envelopes inside.

[David de Gruyl]

Kodak or Fuji film in sealed envelopes is safe. (Ilford is folded black bags and might not be).

I'd like to hear more concurrence with that, though, if I were you. I have done what you are asking about and don't remember a problem with LIGHT exposure. I have seen problems with pressure/damaged emulsion when the boxes had too much film packed into them.

[tom thomas]

Even 120 roll film loaded in a Rolleiflex isn't safe in the hands of an airport security inspector. I suspect my camera was opened to make sure the film was "OK." It would have had to been when we travelled from Tulsa, through Houston to Paris, CDG.

The results show a beautiful pink/magenta tint to surrounding exposed frames. The one under the lens is just a deep pink square when developed. Here is an example, my cousin perusing a nice cigar. Pink dominates.

Luckily the later shots came out with only some pink along both edges. I was able to crop much of the pink off this shot of Roman ruins at Glanum. The square negative does give some leeway to crop damage in this case.

Tom

[ac12]

Factory sealed Kodak 120 did not matter to the TSA agent at SFO. She ripped opened the box and the foil bag on both 120 rolls that I was carrying. Her comment was that she has no way of knowing that the box was not resealed. So don't count on "factory sealed" to make any difference to them.

So for sheet film w/o an inside foil bag, you better make sure that they CANNOT open the box w/o you knowing they are doing it. And as was recommended, take a changing bag with you, in case they demand to inspect what is inside the box.

[Ari]

I know TSA is a different breed of animal, but having just recently flown all over Europe most of the summer with my 100 ISO film going through scanners at every occasion, I can report that there were absolutely no problems.
I put all my B&W film in a 250-sheet box, sealed it with tape, and let it fly through the X-Ray machine.
I waited until I got home to develop, and all of the film was fine, except what I had managed to screw up.

[rguinter]

Factory sealed Kodak 120 did not matter to the TSA agent at SFO. She ripped opened the box and the foil bag on both 120 rolls that I was carrying. Her comment was that she has no way of knowing that the box was not resealed. So don't count on "factory sealed" to make any difference to them.

So for sheet film w/o an inside foil bag, you better make sure that they CANNOT open the box w/o you knowing they are doing it. And as was recommended, take a changing bag with you, in case they demand to inspect what is inside the box.

Quebec airport security wanted to do the same thing to me last October. But after pleading with them I was able to convince them to open only one of about 50 sealed rolls.

All this even after the film went through the x-ray scanner.

The good news is they did not insist on unrolling the film. It was a roll of Efke Aura infrared and I haven't shot it yet so I really don't know if the film was spoiled but my guess is probably not. The protective paper on the spool should have been sufficient to protect it.

Bob G.

[Noah A]

I always take my 120 film out of the box and the foil and l've never had anyone try to unroll it. Thankfully.

Sorry to have asked a question before figuring out the answer myself--but I just looked at one of the foil Kodak 4x5 envelopes (after taking the film out of course) and the corners leaked light like crazy. So the envelopes in practice are not going to be light-tight.

[eddie]

the scanner can see into the lenses. no need to open the shutter and aperture. i have carried a bag full of lenses. i saw them go through the scanner. they looked just like they do in person, hollow tubes that look empty....you can not see the glass. what i have learned here is do not stuff them with contraband as they WILL see it!

for the sheet film what i do is put it in a separate zipper pocket on the outside/top flap of the suitcase. so when they look in it they go for the lenses inside and never care to see the small outside zipper pocket. OR i send the film through in a separate bag. i make sure that that bag will not get flagged....like an empty laptop bag with only film boxes inside.

eddie

[Bob Kerner]

I just flew from NY to Louisiana today. Took Eddie's advice (put sealed boxes of film into my otherwise inconspicuous knapsack) and sent them thru the scanner. No problems whatsoever.

I'm going to err on side of caution and mail the exposed sheets directly to the lab, rather than potentially have to deal with the opened boxes on the return trip.

[Jim Ewins]

Ship your film - do not let those TSA jerks get hold of it. I had that problem at McClarren after shooting Death Valley - when I asked to speak with the supervisor I was threatened with missing my flight. That was 6 years ago and I have not been on another flight - federal prisons may not be fun.

[Marc B.]

Regarding whether your baggage and/or packages may be X-rayed by airport baggage scanning equipment, think about this.

Your airport handles flights from multiple airlines. Your airport also handles packages from multiple shipping carriers as well.

Whether you ship packages by your country's national mail carrier, by UPS, or by FedX, these same bags of mail, trays and boxes of mail, or small packages and large parcels, will all, at some random time, somewhere, run the possibility of being X-rayed, possibly multiple times, at any of the airports your packages may travel through en-route to the final destination.

No matter which carrier you hand the package over to for shipping, and no matter which company's employee delivers a package to your door, that package most likely has gone through several airports during it's journey to you.

[eduardtoader]

I´m here too. If I ship my unprocessed film with the post or another shiping service, the pack will pass through the xray scaners?

And, if I buy film from another country the pack pass through Xray in some place? Then, how are buying film the european shops from Kodak or Fuji?

[eddie]

i have never had any issues....NONE. shipping film. exposed or other wise from asia, europe, and the USA. no problems with the planes either. no problem with TSA.

[Noah A]

I just got back from my first trip with 4x5 film.

I flew from Philadelphia to Las Vegas. I took 250 sheets of Portra 400...but I combined boxes so I didn't need to lug around 25 boxes. I used Freestyle Photo's black film bags and could easily fit 50 sheets of film in each 10-sheet box.

I carried-on my camera bag as well as a small bag that only contained my changing bag and the film. I put it through the x-ray machine with no problems. (I was a little surprised they didn't hand-check my camera bag, with all that metal in there, but I'm not complaining.)

I usually shoot two sides of each holder for each shot, for redundancy. On this trip I split up the film. When unloading I put all of the a-sides of my holders in one box and the b-sides in another box.

I sent half of the film directly to the lab via USPS Priority Mail and held the backup sheets until I got home.

The good news is that I just got my first two days worth of film back and it looks fine.

I figure this system will be my normal practice for travel within the US. Outside the US I probably won't ship the film back, as I assume the film would be more likely to go through baggage screening.

But my film cameras and big lenses attracted no attention from screeners nor did my non-factory sealed film boxes.

[David de Gruyl]

If you send it through the x-ray machine, sheet film looks (un)surprisingly like sheets of something. Not generally something that is a component of a bomb.

I have more problems with stacked filters than anything else. (occasionally, I get interest in the equipment, but mostly just "oh, ok").

[Noah A]

If you send it through the x-ray machine, sheet film looks (un)surprisingly like sheets of something. Not generally something that is a component of a bomb.

Very true, but I was still a bit worried that they'd want to open the boxes! By the way I also printed out labels on my laser printer that had my logo, contact info in case of loss, and in big print: "Photographic film open only in complete darkness".

I thought that my Technikardan would raise an eyebrow, since it has a lot of metal, large l-shaped standards, etc. Though I suppose since it's metal, they could kind of see what it was in the x-ray.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Noah, pardon me for asking but why-oh-why-on-Earth would you subject your professional film to Xrays at all, since you don't have to by requesting hand inspection?

[Tony Evans]

In addition to the problems with film, I have noticed that screeners seem to pay particular attention to anything (a) metal and (b) with some sort of edge or point.
I have had a couple of clearly innocent items confiscated from my carry-on over the last year. For this reason I leave metal Lens Spanners and Lens Boards in the checked luggage.

[Noah A]

Noah, pardon me for asking but why-oh-why-on-Earth would you subject your professional film to Xrays at all, since you don't have to by requesting hand inspection?

Mostly because hand inspection of a non factory-sealed box (or even a sealed one) could result in the box being opened. I've heard of this happening. There was even some talk on lightstalkers about brand new film from B&H coming up positive after being swabbed for explosive residue. Perhaps if you ask a security agent to hand-check your film then tell them they can't open the box it would go well for you. But, frankly, if I were a security agent I'd want to see inside the box.

I don't own a densitometer but I've traveled for years with ISO 400 film going through multiple x-ray screenings without a problem. Even if there is some imperceptible base fog, I'd prefer that to either getting my film boxes opened or getting into an argument that could land me on a watch list for life...

In the US we do have a right to hand inspection, but this is not the case in many of the places I work. So it was kind of a test, but again, in many years of having ISO 400 film x-rayed (by hand-baggage checks, not check-in luggage screening) I've never once had any film damaged.

My strategy is to just limit the number of x-ray exposures. So, for instance, the film I didn't shoot on this trip will be shot locally, I won't take it on another out-of-town shoot. I also try to limit connecting flights and if I do have them, I stay in the secured area if at all possible to avoid additional screening.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Save yourself the stress and headache and just have them xray your film. I've had film (exposed & unexposed) go through xray machines multiple times with no problems.

[Doremus Scudder]

My experiences, as objectively as possible:

Per year 4 intercontinental flights between Europe and the U.S., with at least three legs each. Also several (2-6) flights within the E.U. with one or two legs each.

I carry new, sealed boxes of Tri-X 320 and TMAX-400 in 4x5 size to Europe from the U.S. to Europe regularly (it's a lot cheaper in the U.S.).

I gave up asking for hand-inspections long ago for several reasons, principally because the TSA inspector really needs to look inside boxes that are being hand inspected to see what is in them. Think about it: asking for a hand-inspection of a closed box and then saying "don't look inside" kind of defeats the purpose of inspecting. Also, in this digital age, larger-size film is a relative rarity; inexperienced inspectors will slow you down and may insist on opening the boxes/film containers. Why risk that when the scanner is simple, easy and safe?

All my film stays in the carry-on luggage and goes through the scanner. I've never had a problem this way. Often, my camera equipment is inspected, or the carry-on is swabbed (a random test, BTW), but once the film has been through the scanner, no one seems worried about it.

Nevertheless, I always carry a scrap sheet of 4x5 film to show them what is inside the box just in case. I've never had to show it. I also carry the TSA guidelines for film; never had to use that either.

FWIW, my experience with airport security has been magnitudes better since the TSA took over. Now, after several years of getting their act together, it is even better. I've never had a TSA agent try to open a box of film. But, I always let them X-ray it.

Unexposed film on the way to Europe gets an average of one to two scans before arriving at its destination. It is often then subjected to further scans (see below).

In Europe I travel with a carry-on loaded with camera equipment and 6-8 loaded filmholders. My wife usually carries another 15 loaded filmholders for me in her carry-on. The carry-ons go through the scanner. Never a problem. I carry a box of unopened film as well. No problems there either

Again, I carry a scrap sheet of film, and am willing to open a holder if needed. This has never been necessary, although in Italy I've been asked about the holders. An explanation seemed to do the trick.

On return trips, I simply do the same. Although I could unload and repack in boxes, I don't. The carry-ons with filmholders loaded with exposed film go through the scanners. Again, as above, no problems.

How dangerous are scanners?: On trip to Venice from Vienna in November, I took filmholders loaded with Tri-X 320, which had been scanned twice already on the trip from the U.S. to Europe. They were scanned once going and once coming. Total: 4 scans. However, I didn't shoot all the film I took with me; I had 4-6 holders with unexposed film in them, which I took with me on a more recent trip to Italy. This time I flew through Zurich. One scan going and two scans returning. Total now: 7 scans. The developed film was absolutely fine, no problems whatsoever. I wouldn't hesitate carrying them through a couple more times.

By the way, on these last trips, no problems at all except for one unpack-repack of the carry-on in Vienna to show them the camera. Evidently the folding camera looked a little confusing to them in the scan. Once open, I just got oohs and aahs and waved through.

If I were taking exposed film from Europe back to the states on the airlines, I would simply pack them in film boxes and send them through the scanner. I'd mark the boxes "exposed film, open in total darkness" or something like that, and be ready with a scrap sheet of film just in case.

That said, I never do this. I develop here in Europe and take the negs back with me.

Hope this helps.

Doremus Scudder

[rguinter]

...My strategy is to just limit the number of x-ray exposures. So, for instance, the film I didn't shoot on this trip will be shot locally, I won't take it on another out-of-town shoot. I also try to limit connecting flights and if I do have them, I stay in the secured area if at all possible to avoid additional screening.

I've made this same comment several times on this forum... I think also earlier in this thread. And it is the same strategy I use.

All I would add is using a method to identify which rolls/boxes went through the scanners and how many times. I use a sharpie marker and strike a line on each roll or box each time it was scanned.

So far up to 4-scans have not produced any perceptible damage on my films and after that I keep them for local use.

Bob G.

[Bob Kerner]

Noah, pardon me for asking but why-oh-why-on-Earth would you subject your professional film to Xrays at all, since you don't have to by requesting hand inspection?

Not to answer for Noah, but I think asking for hand inspection invites problems. Somewhere in this thread or an older one on the same subject, someone related a story about hand inspection. The TSA agent wanted the film boxes opened, despite the fact that it was exposed film.

For the most part, no one here has reported ruined film going through an xray machine once or twice. I've never had it happen. So why invite a different breed of problem by calling attention to yourself and asking for hand inspection, only to encounter some numbskull who insists on looking inside the box?

[rguinter]

Not to answer for Noah, but I think asking for hand inspection invites problems. Somewhere in this thread or an older one on the same subject, someone related a story about hand inspection. The TSA agent wanted the film boxes opened, despite the fact that it was exposed film.

For the most part, no one here has reported ruined film going through an xray machine once or twice. I've never had it happen. So why invite a different breed of problem by calling attention to yourself and asking for hand inspection, only to encounter some numbskull who insists on looking inside the box?

Good points.

But even going through the scanner sometimes the security agents want to look inside the boxes and unroll spools of film anyway. It was quite a hassle for me during my last return trip from Quebec City and nearly cost me a lot of exposed and unexposed film.

See my thread here last year titled "Next Time to Quebec I Think I'm, Gonna Drive."

So even if you send it through the scanner, that is still no guarantee that they won't want to hand inspect it all anyway.

Bob G.

[Sean Galbraith]

I always ask for a hand inspection, but I haven't travelled with sheet film before (will be doing so in May though).

This Kodak report scared me a bit:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

[Noah A]

I always ask for a hand inspection, but I haven't travelled with sheet film before (will be doing so in May though).

This Kodak report scared me a bit:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

That Kodak report mostly refers to checked baggage scanners, not the smaller, weaker scanners used for carry-on checkpoints. Personally I wouldn't worry too much. Of course, NEVER, EVER put film in your checked baggage.

If I were planning on asking for a hand-check of my sheet film, I'd contact the airport(s) ahead of time to explain the situation, I'd probably have my agency fax them a letter of assignment, etc. I know this can be done in the UK for example, where hand-checks can sometimes be hard to get by just asking at the checkpoint.

By the way, I have all but one batch of film back and it all looks perfect, no damage or fogging. Most of the film was only x-rayed twice, but some was scanned three times since I needed to go through security once more before shooting the interior and power plant at the Hoover Dam.

I'll set aside a few of the unused sheets from the trip and take them on another few trips as a torture test.

The biggest pain in the neck of my last trip was that I had to repackage my film. I really wish Kodak would bring back 50-sheet boxes of color neg film, even if it cost the same as buying 5x 10-sheet boxes. Heck, I'd pay a few more bucks for the convenience of it.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

I wish they'd bring back Readyloads, and offer Ektar and Portra as such.
I stocked up on Fuji Quickloads for flying, solves the hand inspection problem even if they wanna open the box.

[Bruce Barlow]

A friend who worked for the USGS tested Tri-X a few years back, and found that about 8 scans produced a change in base fog. I just let them x-ray it as carry-on. I have had no problems, but neither have I exceeded, maybe, 4 scans.

Spent a half-hour in a closet with a supervisor once, sticking his hand in my film boxes. Never again.

Had a jeweler's screwdriver confiscated once. They thought I was going to disassemble the plane with it in flight.

[Jan Becket]

Hereʻs the link to a parallel discussion on photo.net a few years ago, with a long account of trips to Scotland and Ireland via Heathrow:

http://photo.net/travel-photography-forum/00OXdL

An earlier posting at photo.net suggested that UK airports employ a different scanning technology, but I donʻt have direct info. A number of random sheets did come out with clipped highlights, unrelated to lighting / exposure /development variables, but possibly related to where the sheets were located on the stack. Most of this discussion references color film, but for those of us who shoot large format B&W, the curves may be affected differently. In many trips to France, Iʻve never noticed x-ray damage to 120 film, color or B&W.

One strategy I might use this summer (returning to Scotland) is adding a roll of 400 color film to my carry on bag, so that it can be developed there, just as a reality check, the canary in the coal mine.

Film aside, the real challenge is going to be the stringent weight and carry-on limits in Europe. For the check-in (with tripod inside), 20 kilos. For the carry-on (Ebony, 3 lenses, tripod head and all film), 10 kilos. No second bag. Thatʻs going to be hard.

[ignatiusjk]

If you have film in film holders take a blank one with you to show the TSA's.You might even load a holder with an very old and useless neg so they can see what is up.

[rjbrine]

I Have just travelled with quickload E6 film and insisted on hand inspection.

They key thing in the UK is to ask for a supervisor as they are more knowledgeable and understanding. The US seem more informed about large format sheet film.

I found carrying a print out of TSA guidelines was useful in explaining the situation.

Each quickload sheet was swabbed but not scanned.

[Vlad Soare]

I Have just travelled with quickload E6 film and insisted on hand inspection.
[...]
Each quickload sheet was swabbed but not scanned.
You were lucky this time. Next time you ask for hand inspection the monkey might open all your film boxes to "inspect" them.
Besides, there's no guarantee that the supervisor is any smarter. He may be, if you're lucky.

[rguinter]

I agree with Vlad. I don't travel that much but I'm putting all my film through the scanners these days except for a few 120 infrared rolls that are unique and irreplaceable.

Asking for hand inspection at my local airport is no problem... but getting iffy in other places. I visited the Statue of Liberty last Fall and there was no option for hand inspection.

I simply mark each box of film (or each roll) each time it goes through a scanner and limit the number of scans.

Bob G.

[Curt]

Going through Las Vegas they moved my carry on bag back and forth several times and when several people were looking at it I finally asked if it was ok. I said I would open it if they wanted and they laughed and said what is it a flux capacitor?

I said no just several old lenses. They had a good time with it.

Now I'd be more worried with a sleeping controller or one playing a video game on duty.

[dikaiosune01]

If the TSA folks begin to open your bag, ask to get it hand inspected. Or remove the film and tell them that you would like to get it hand inspected. They'll do a chemical swab of the surface boxes; and 9 times out of 10, you'll be on your way.

New Annecdote:
I was going through Australian Customs. My camera was scanned once, the security guy told me that my film holders looked like knives.
He repositioned my bag of filmholders flat, and scanned it again. Then he called me American and sent me on my way. (I rolled my eyes because I'm Canadian damn it)

All in all. Not much inconvience was caused.

[eddie]

At JFK Now. Passed the x ray noproblem. Al is going well.....except the $10 beers at the bar!

[BetterSense]

At the last DFW terminal I flew threw, beer at Applebee's bar was cheaper than bottled water. Guess which one I purchased?

[kansasjhawk]

What does everyone put in their carry-on for actual camera equipment? Do you try to carry on a whole 4 x 5 camera case with everything packed inside?

[Richard Wasserman]

What does everyone put in their carry-on for actual camera equipment? Do you try to carry on a whole 4 x 5 camera case with everything packed inside?

I just got back from a trip to Oregon and Canada. I packed a Domke bag with a Horseman 45FA, 3 lenses, assorted doodads, and a Rollei TLR. I shipped the film and tripod separately. The TSA inspector at O'Hare Airport was fascinated by my Rollei, and we had a nice chat. When leaving PDX they x-rayed the bag and didn't look any further. I had no problems whatsoever.

[Jan Becket]

What does everyone put in their carry-on for actual camera equipment? Do you try to carry on a whole 4 x 5 camera case with everything packed inside?

Having had stuff ripped off by baggage handlers, especially in LA, I try to cram it all in: Ebony 4X5, three lenses, spot meter and boxes of film. Yes, I know thatʻs a crap shoot with TSA. I just try to minimize the total number of scans. Iʻd ship film within the US, but when traveling abroad, all bets are off. Even if FedEx might not X-ray in France, French customs might. No guarantees. At least thatʻs what FedEx told me when I asked.

With some careful buffering, the mounted 150 fits inside the folded camera body, although I wouldn't carry it that way normally. The tripod has to go in luggage, unfortunately, but I take the head in the carry on. Everything fits, barely, within a Kelty 2700 ci pack altered by PhotoBackpacker. The larger Kelty might work inside the US but in Europe the airlines have smaller/tighter carry on limits (no second carry-on bag, not even a waist pack).

The big problem, at least for me, is weight. The budget airlines like Ryan Air allow a 20 kilo bag and a 10 kilo carry on.

[kansasjhawk]

I have a 4 x 5 view (monorail) camera and was thinking of getting a Tenba case for it...I think that would be too big to carry on though. I think that damage wouldn't be too much of an issue with that...but have other people had problems with people stealing things if you check it? If so I could always carry lenses etc in a carry-on.

[rdenney]

I have a 4 x 5 view (monorail) camera and was thinking of getting a Tenba case for it...I think that would be too big to carry on though. I think that damage wouldn't be too much of an issue with that...but have other people had problems with people stealing things if you check it? If so I could always carry lenses etc in a carry-on.

If you leave a monorail in it's normal configuration and you're going to check it, get an anvil case, buy insurance, and carry your lenses with you. A Tenba isn't rugged enough, and not even the tough Calumet case I have for my Cambo would be adequate for checked baggage. It has to be robust enough to protect the camera when dropped from some feet. I've seen the gorillas routinely wipe bags off the conveyor belt onto the tarmac if they are coming too fast.

But many monorails can be arranged flat by disconnecting the bellows on one end and turning the standards 90 degrees to be in line with the rail. My Sinar F will fit in a briefcase in that arrangement. The Cambo will go that way, too, as will just about any monorail with interchangeable (read: Easily removable) bellows.

Rick "who does not, however, fly with 4x5" Denney

[David R Munson]

Has anyone had experience with carrying on sheet film at either Narita or Taipei? I'll be going through both airports this summer on vacation and while I haven't had problems at either with photo stuff in the past, I haven't dealt with flying with LF yet either.

EDIT: Also, has anyone ever tried to whip out their changing bag/tent in the occasion that someone insisted on opening a film box? Sorry if that's already been covered in the thread (still reading through it). Wanted to make sure I asked before I forgot again. :)

[B.S.Kumar]

Has anyone had experience with carrying on sheet film at either Narita or Taipei?

While I've not flown out of Narita with film, I've done so plenty of times from Kansai International (KIX, Osaka). I use roll film, though. I asked for, and got hand inspection of my film every time. But do get there with plenty of time to spare. The magic words are "sumimasen", "onegai shimasu" and "doumo arigatougozaimasu".

Kumar

[David R Munson]

Kumar, my experience has been good at KIX and NRT both with 35mm and 120, I just wonder about the 4x5! I may just end up EMS-ing my exposed film home at the end of my trip. It shouldn't be too expensive or take very long (I live in Taiwan), and would circumvent the potential problems with non-sealed boxes of film.

[B.S.Kumar]

David, I hope to take at least one box of 4x5 film when I travel out of KIX in July. I will post my experience at that time.

Kumar

[matthias ley]

In the last 3 years, I often flew in and out Narita with 4x5 sheet film. Always hand inspection was ok, just remind the security staff not to open the film boxes (they sometimes take "hand inspection" literally). Once being told that they cannot open the boxes, they politely nod and return them to you.

[Doremus Scudder]

I carry my 4x5 wooden folder and four lenses plus loaded filmholders, meter and filters in a rolling carry-on when flying around Europe. I let everything go through the scanner. I've had to unpack to show my equipment and have had to run the camera through separately a time or two (something about not being able to see through it...). Sometimes the film gets up to 8 scans (rarely, but sometimes when I take the same unexposed holders on multiple trips). I've had no problems with x-ray damage whatsoever.

Same goes when I'm flying inside the United States, although there I usually prefer road trips.

However, when I fly back and forth between my "home bases" in Europe and the U.S., I found that lugging so much stuff around on long-haul flights was a real pain. I now keep separate camera(s) meters and common lenses in duplicate, one set on each continent; same for tripods. I just carry the few lenses and filters I need. I'm now down to carrying 12 filters (which go fine in bubble wrap in the checked baggage) a 90mm SA and my Fuji A 240mm. If I find a good deal on either of these in the future, I'll station one of them in Europe and one in the U.S. as well. This time I'm carrying an extra meter back and forth, which I used to check the accuracy of my European meter. Usually it stays in the U.S. too.

I do return to Europe with supplies from the U.S.; boxes of 4x5 film and some dry chemistry (both just for economy, since I can get everything in Europe, just at double the price). I carry the film in the carry-on, let it go through the scanner and have had zero problems (usually one to two scans to get film from the U.S. to Vienna). Chemistry goes in the checked bags. Both film and chemistry are always in factory sealed packages. I was a little concerned that the TSA might confiscate my sodium metaborate and my PMK kits, but so far, no problems.

Hope my experiences help somewhat.

Best,

Doremus Scudder

[ataim]

A few years ago I was flying out of Denver. I had my film and camera hand check. I knew some thing was wrong when two armed guards came and stood beside my wife and I. What they found was TNT on our shoes bottom of the camera bag. The TNT was picked up from the old mines that we had visited. A general alert sent the guards. After discussing the issue with about five officials they finally asked where we had been. The swabs picked traces of TNT that was exploded over forty years ago. I now ship all of my film back home with fedex or ups

[Rayt]

Sorry for not directly on topic but I just came home from a trip to Amsterdam and while going through Schiphol security two ladies both obviously over 70 years old were thoroughly padded down. Perhaps logic is not in the equation?

[John NYC]

Sorry for not directly on topic but I just came home from a trip to Amsterdam and while going through Schiphol security two ladies both obviously over 70 years old were thoroughly padded down. Perhaps logic is not in the equation?

This is probably because they do a portion of pat downs pre-selected at random. They do that here in the U.S. at some airports. I have been selected at random once; I know because I asked when they did it.

[tom thomas]

Little old ladies, and men, dying of cancer or other serious disease make great terrorists for the right price. They may want to leave a little bit of cash for the family, who knows what motive, but dont' count anyone out when it comes to being a bomb "mule."

tom

[tom thomas]

Update on little old ladies. I just saw the story on the news where a 95-year old in wheelchair, set off alarms so she got the full search including in her adult diaper and body cavities. A security spokesman explained what I'd just posted a moment ago in including that children are favority "mules" for terrorists as well. Nice liddle teddy bear, go boom later.

When I left Bangkok, Thailand in June 1972 heading for Paris on an Air France flight, security was so tight. I had Uzi's shoved in my nose twice, one checking my bag, the other at the gate during a body pat down.

Reason, a "trusted" airport security policeman had provided a last minute gift at the gate to his ethnic-Chinese wife heading to Hong Kong to visit her family. He asked a fellow security officer to give the present to her as she'd already boarded. The bomb went off when the plane was over Pleiku or at least in central South Vietnam. Security was so tight a week later when I travelled through.

Airport security knew I was US military travelling on my own, perhaps they thought I was going to mess with the Air France 747. Who knows, but I sure got close scrutiny.

tom

[msk2193]

I just passed through security checkpoints at DFW, London Heathrow, Nairobi, and Kilimanjaro.

No one ever rescanned my bag for its contents, or removed my film which was in one of two carry-on bags and placed inside a lead bag for protection against x-rays.

[eduardtoader]

I´m glad to have tho forum back, finally..

Next tuesday I will fly to NY city. I´m thinking to shot 4x5 slides and negatives. I´m planing to buy and develop the film there in NY.

SOmeone of you could tell me the best pricey/quality places to buy film and develop it? I would like to avoid the airport scaning, so I´m thinking to turn home with the film developed.

And finally:

If I would buy 10 - 20 boxes with 4x5 film from there (in europe the price is at least triple) the customs officers will let me to bring it home? Could they make me any problem? It´s worth to do it or not?

[John NYC]

I´m glad to have tho forum back, finally..

Next tuesday I will fly to NY city. I´m thinking to shot 4x5 slides and negatives. I´m planing to buy and develop the film there in NY.

SOmeone of you could tell me the best pricey/quality places to buy film and develop it? I would like to avoid the airport scaning, so I´m thinking to turn home with the film developed.

And finally:

If I would buy 10 - 20 boxes with 4x5 film from there (in europe the price is at least triple) the customs officers will let me to bring it home? Could they make me any problem? It´s worth to do it or not?

B&H or Adorama for film. My favorite lab now is landiphotolab.com. They have good hours, too.

Please read this thread to be prepared for the hassle of using a tripod on NYC.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59856&highlight=tripod+law

John

[eddie]

If I would buy 10 - 20 boxes with 4x5 film from there (in europe the price is at least triple) the customs officers will let me to bring it home? Could they make me any problem? It´s worth to do it or not?

i never have any issues carrying film or equipment all over the world. i would say put the film in your carryon bag and let it fly. get in the nothing to declare line and you will be away.

i was asked what was in my carry on last week. it was my new-to-me 26 inch Ross petzval lens.....they just could not believe it was 19 pounds!

[dikaiosune01]

I've been traveling with my 4x5 camera for about a year now. And I've read this thread many times over. I've traveled across south-east asia and a few places beyond that. I haven't had any problems yet, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared. a brief summary of my conclusions

1. X-ray scans are cullmulative. The more scans, the more damage it will do.
2. Most people say; ISO 400 or under can withstand up to 5 scans before any noticable drop in quality (says kodak)
3. If you fly in the US, and have to adher to the TSA rules, you can request a hand inspection and they cannot say "no". If they do, you need to speak to someone higher up who knows the rules a bit better.
4. In you are flying through London, everything will be scanned.
5. MOST IMPORTANT: be polite about it. No need to sound like a drunken loon spouting rights and invasion of privacy. That will cause more harm than good.

Personally: I get my film hand-checked when ever I can. I arrive at the airport early so there will be no problems. I haven't had any problems in (Canada, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Australia).

Some airport security has said that 400 speed film is safe for x-ray use. I've gave the following explainations, and before I could finish... ...
1) "Actually, the x-ray process is cullulmulative. The more x-rays it goes through the more likelyhood that it will damage the film. I will be traveling through multiple airports and I'm trying to minimize the exposure to the film. THe reason is because X-rays are actually light. Albiet a small amount of light. When enough light hits the film, it will ruin the film. It is like jabbing a thumb into someones throat. For the first inch there will be no noticable damage, the skin is quite plyable. But eventually when the thumb punctures through the neck, there's going to be blood everywhere. I'm just trying to minimize that margin of error officier."
2) "Actually, I plan on devloping this film myself using something called 'pushing'. Put it simply, I can develop this film as if it were rated for ASA 6400. I also have a few sheets of film that I have experiemented on. The ASA equivalent would be closer to 25000. This is accomplished by enlongating the devlopment times and it can achieve a variety of different effects that I may utilize in the future, officer"

[chassis]

I just passed through TSA checkpoints at PHL and SFO and my carry on bag went through the scanner with no additional inspection. In the bag is a metal 4x5 field camera, lens+board, light meter, loupe, and two film holders with 4 unexposed sheets of film.

We will see how the journey home goes next week, and when I process the film 10 days from now.

[chassis]

Just went through the TSA checkpoint in PDX with no extra inspection, and no hassles. Gear was the same as above: 4x5 camera, lens, film holders, meter, etc.

[Steve Goldstein]

This first isn't 4x5 film but, I recently flew home from Grand Junction CO with about a dozen rolls of 120, half FP4+, half TMY-2. Some were exposed, some were not. All were packed together in a single ziploc bag that I placed in its own bin to run through the scanner. Next thing I know, there's a TSA guy headed my way with the bag and saying that it's better to hand-screen film so if I didn't mind that's what he'd do. <Sound of jaw hitting floor>. I thanked him for his concern and accepted his offer. Since I'd had a hand-scan in Boston on departure, this film never got scanned at all, just the normal high-altitude X-ray exposure that everyone and everything receives.

I traveled to and from Denver CO in late September with about 150 sheets of 4x5 (FP4+, HP5+, TMY-2). Everything went through the scanner on both ends of the trip with no ill effects, based on the 100 or so sheets I exposed and developed. The TMY2 had been scanned twice before as well. I followed the same drill - 4x5 boxes in separate ziploc bags, laid out flat in their own bin. The TSA guys didn't bat an eye at the backpack with the 4x5, 5 lenses, two light meters, regular 4x5 and Polaroid 545i holders, and various other weird items.

[Terry Hull]

My october experience made me happy I had a changing bag. They wanted to open the boxes of 4X5 and would have, but after explaining the supervisor opened the boxes in my film bag.

[John NYC]

My october experience made me happy I had a changing bag. They wanted to open the boxes of 4X5 and would have, but after explaining the supervisor opened the boxes in my film bag.

That's ridiculous.

[Dietrich Floeter]

Opening an old thread but this fits. I just passed through El Paso TSA security with 20 loaded and exposed holders of 4x5 tri-x and two boxes with unexposed film inside. One box contained a couple unopened packets and the other the remains of a last packet. They did consent to hand check but had to open the boxes because they open all boxes. I normally unload all film into boxes prior to flying and got lucky here because the supervisor ok'd just swiping the holders which the checker said would normally have to be opened. The result is 15-20 sheets of fogged unexposed film, 20 loaded holders that I don't believe had the slides slid even a little and a thudding heart rate.
I was told that had I unloaded to boxes as I have many times before, the boxes would have to be opened and no, once through security I would not have been allowed to take them back out. A signed affidavit from the supervisor for my client explaining why I just wasted a week of my paid time, location assistance and travel expenses might have been forthcoming.

Live and learn. It's funny I got here through other TSA checks with no problem.

[Tin Can]

Makes me think shipping film home may be best.

[djdister]

Asking for a hand check is the problem. I let my exposed and unexposed film [in boxes] go through the hand-carry scanners on the way over and back from Scotland and not one bit of fogging or delay at Security.

[Ari]

Asking for a hand check is the problem. I let my exposed and unexposed film [in boxes] go through the hand-carry scanners on the way over and back from Scotland and not one bit of fogging or delay at Security.

Exactly; the machines at security are pretty harmless. You can put your film through 15 times and not notice anything amiss.

[Jan Becket]

I posed my negative experience (pun intended...) this summer w/ the TSA security people at SFO in a separate thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?116298-SFO-near-horror-story&p=1206305#post1206305

At least I got them to cough up $95 for a box of ruined 4X5 TMX 100.

I had originally asked for hand screening at SFO because the film had already been screened 7 times in Europe, and because there is no guarantee that all scanners everywhere are being maintained to specs. Seemed like a good idea at the time — 100% hindsight. There was some minor damage to about a dozen sheets of TMX, with very faint lines that seemed to be from boxes stacked above them.

The security guy at SFO, opened all my boxes of exposed film w/o asking me if I would rather have them scanned — and out of my direct line of sight. That was the big problem. Next time itʻs FedEx.

[BetterSense]

I just had my film, including lots of expensive color 4x5, scanned at RDU, ORD, and NRT. I wondered each time if asking for a hand-check was worth it. I have asked for hand checks at Denver and RDU but it was always roll film.

[Drew Wiley]

I can tell lots of horror stories about Fedex and UPS too, and obviously USPS. I'd just let them X-ray it. Once they swabbed my tupperware box containing 4x5 holders with a conventional residue test. Now they don't seem to even look at my gear. But they do seem to change their strategy from time to time, and it differs
at different airports, depending on what their marching orders are. They also seem to be doing more profiling in advance; so maybe I'm just in the old and boring
category that doesn't attract their interest.

[Tin Can]

If I ever return to EU, it will be by Queen Mary 2. Here in NA, it's train or motorcycle.

I used to like flying in the 60's and early 70's, when 747's had a bar for long hauls. Deadhead returns on holidays were also great, with stewardesses singing carols and handing out drinks to 6 passengers one Christmas day. :)