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View Full Version : B&H has 8x10 TMax 400 in stock right now



Jim Cole
31-Dec-2010, 09:06
Just ordered several boxes.

Good luck!

vinny
31-Dec-2010, 09:26
it's already gone. It wouldn't let me add more than one box to my cart.

jp
31-Dec-2010, 09:39
I ordered 4 boxes before you posted Jim. I was quite surprised. It took my order and the order status says "In stock, order sent to warehouse".

I'll be ordering some with canham too.

With the price of silver as shown in

http://silverprice.org/silver-price-history.html

I'm sort of sympathising with the doomsday crowd being that this price spike is pretty unprecendented. Surely it will be, at a minimum, reflected in film prices at some point. (look at the multiyear graphs near the bottom.)

I don't think this portends the end of civilization, but silver has certainly met new needs in soldering worldwide of the ROHS rules and home plumbing to a smaller extent. Like oil, some people estimate limited supply of certain metal in the ground such as copper. I have not investigated this for silver.

I have commenced hoarding. In addition to 8x10 film, I bought 8 boxes of 4x5 tmax 400 and 10 propacks of 120 tmax400.

Allen in Montreal
31-Dec-2010, 09:44
Just ordered several boxes.

Good luck!

It did not even show the product as a choice when I looked last night.
You are lucky Jim! :)

Jan Pedersen
31-Dec-2010, 09:56
Inventories deplete really fast these days.
Badger had it for about 24 hours earlier this week, Adorama for 24 hours until yesterday morning and now B&H. All out again.
Must be good film. :rolleyes:

Happy New Year to all.

Rayt
1-Jan-2011, 03:12
I signed up for the email notification but never got it! Anyway before TMY was listed as out of stock at B&H and now it is listed as discontinued so I am not going to hold my breath. I already sent in my money to Canham for 10 boxes.

Jim Cole
1-Jan-2011, 06:37
I went really fast. I got the notice of "in stock" from B&H 5 minutes before I posted here (I was actually at my desk when it popped up and immediately placed my order). According to Vinny, here was only one box left 20 minutes later.

It must have been a small supply, or some really large orders went through at the speed of light. I am usually never in the right place at the right time, so this was very lucky for me. Heck, I didn't read about the demise of TMax on these forums until three weeks after the buying frenzy started.

After looking in all my regular places and finding the discontinued notice everywhere, I finally got lucky with an order through Digital Truth on Dec 13th, which going to be shipped direct through Kodak (if my Karma is still good). If I don't see that order by Jan 12th or so, I'll hop on Canham's order before the 15th.

I'll shoot TMax as long as I can, but I guess eventually I'll have to start experimenting with HP-5.

Michael Kadillak
1-Jan-2011, 15:07
I went really fast. I got the notice of "in stock" from B&H 5 minutes before I posted here (I was actually at my desk when it popped up and immediately placed my order). According to Vinny, here was only one box left 20 minutes later.

It must have been a small supply, or some really large orders went through at the speed of light. I am usually never in the right place at the right time, so this was very lucky for me. Heck, I didn't read about the demise of TMax on these forums until three weeks after the buying frenzy started.

After looking in all my regular places and finding the discontinued notice everywhere, I finally got lucky with an order through Digital Truth on Dec 13th, which going to be shipped direct through Kodak (if my Karma is still good). If I don't see that order by Jan 12th or so, I'll hop on Canham's order before the 15th.

I'll shoot TMax as long as I can, but I guess eventually I'll have to start experimenting with HP-5.

You can continue to shoot TMY in 8x10 as long as you want. We put together 220 boxes of pre-order with Keith Canham to met the minimums so we know we are a go. The good news is that there are no maximums - we can order what we want OVER the minimum. It is only slightly more expensive than previously offered when you use Keiths coupon online. We also expect a fairly quick turn around from Kodak.

Do yourself a favor and give Keith a call or let me know if you have any questions. Why change what works?

Cheers!

Jim Cole
1-Jan-2011, 15:28
Michael,

Thanks for the reply. I do plan to shoot TMax as long as it's available by special order. I love the film and only made the comment about HP-5 as a long term solution to any future issues arising from Kodak's recent history of production cuts of film types and/or sizes.

I appreciate everything you did to help get Keith's order going. I will jump on if my order from Digital Truth fails to materialize from Kodak. If I get that, I will have a year supply to hold me until the next special order. I cannot afford to own more than that right now. I wish I could buy a 10 year supply, but alas, my print sales have been down 40-60% for the last three years and most people still insist on my color work (gasp)!

Michael Kadillak
1-Jan-2011, 15:52
Understand completely Jim. In an ironic twist of business logistics I feel that Kodak is actually served better by taking this product from regular inventory and converting it to Special Order because they can excise a considerable amount of infrastructural costs in the marketing chain. Secondly, when they get paid up front those collars those dollars go directly to the bottom line improving their economics.

When we turn around several deals a year to sequester our collective needs we are in a great position to request larger sheets per box along with a number of other deal improvements. Thanks to people like you we are all in a better place.

Next on the train stop is ULF. We need to kick this mule in the ass hard.

I hope 2011 is a great year for you personally and professionally Jim!

Sal Santamaura
1-Dec-2017, 18:13
Heads up -- today B&H lowered its price on 8x10 TMY-2:


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533811-USA/Kodak_1930106_TMY_8_x_10.html

It had been $104 per box.

ic-racer
1-Dec-2017, 18:36
Anyone remember what it cost in 2010? I didn't get any In 2010, I was using expired boxes of 50 I got from ebay at $2/sheet. Back in the day when ebay expired film was priced below fresh film prices.

Michael Kadillak
1-Dec-2017, 19:45
Anyone remember what it cost in 2010? I didn't get any In 2010, I was using expired boxes of 50 I got from ebay at $2/sheet. Back in the day when ebay expired film was priced below fresh film prices.

That was then and this is now.

IMHO T Max 400 2 is without doubt the best sheet film that has ever been manufactured. Why? Straight line density relationship with minimal toe in partnership with resolution in the stratosphere and the resulting combination is in a class all by itself. My issue is that clearly, T Max 400 2 has been pushed and held in place into an untenable price point by a small number of deep pocketed buyers. This condition can continue as long as the deep pockets keep greasing the purchasing process. My question. Is B&H taking the sales price hit to move product or is this coming from Aleris? Hope it is Aleris. The baseline realistic price point is $4.25/sheet (FP4+ in 8x10). I have concluded that as good as it is TMax 400 2 is not twice as good as FP4. Is it 40% better @ $6.00/sheet? I believe it probably is. Anything beyond that cost the increased film speed and resolution improvement is not worth it as I see it.

Sal Santamaura
2-Dec-2017, 10:48
... The baseline realistic price point is $4.25/sheet...The realistic baseline price is what the market will pay. Each time B&H has run out, it places a new order and gets somewhere around 150 boxes into stock. They typically sell out gradually over the course of four to six months. The market speaks.

Pere Casals
3-Dec-2017, 10:51
IMHO T Max 400 2 is without doubt the best sheet film that has ever been manufactured. Why? Straight line density relationship with minimal toe in partnership with resolution in the stratosphere

If you review MTF curves in datasheets you will realize that TMX is way sharper than TMY. TMX is way a better film (technically speaking) if you don't need the ISO 400.

If this is useful or not it depends on the scene, the lens and the photographer...

Also Delta 100 should be technically better than TMY. And from D100 to TMX there is an slight difference in the TMX favor (if slightly finer grain and lower LIRF are an advantage).

All those differences may be slightly perceived in 35mm, but it is difficult that those differences can make a difference in MF or LF.

FP4+ has no direct equivalent in the Kodak product range. TMX and TMY can be better compared to D100 and D400, but D400 is not offered in sheets...

With TMX, TMY, D100 and D400, note that measuring resolving power at 1:1000 contrast does not make much sense for pictorial usage, in those conditions we see the performance of the very low speed cubic layer that it is useful for extreme highlights, but the layer that is interesting regarding resolving power is the tabular grain layer that makes the most of the scale for pictorial usage.

Michael Kadillak
3-Dec-2017, 15:03
If you review MTF curves in datasheets you will realize that TMX is way sharper than TMY. TMX is way a better film (technically speaking) if you don't need the ISO 400.

If this is useful or not it depends on the scene, the lens and the photographer...

Also Delta 100 should be technically better than TMY. And from D100 to TMX there is an slight difference in the TMX favor (if slightly finer grain and lower LIRF are an advantage).

All those differences may be slightly perceived in 35mm, but it is difficult that those differences can make a difference in MF or LF.

FP4+ has no direct equivalent in the Kodak product range. TMX and TMY can be better compared to D100 and D400, but D400 is not offered in sheets...

With TMX, TMY, D100 and D400, note that measuring resolving power at 1:1000 contrast does not make much sense for pictorial usage, in those conditions we see the performance of the very low speed cubic layer that it is useful for extreme highlights, but the layer that is interesting regarding resolving power is the tabular grain layer that makes the most of the scale for pictorial usage.

And when you make photographs you realize that an MTF curve and $4 may get you a fancy cup of coffee, not much more.

TMX is great if you have a JOBO and are willing to process it in T Max developer or D76. It is cranky as hell with any other process and mandates critical temperature consistency and precise rotation through the development process. TMX also has a UV coating which eliminates it for any alt process work.

TMY (2) the improved version on the other hand is tremendously flexible in any process and developer and even sings in ABC pyro tray developed. The tonalities it exhibits are wonderful in print form. I like flexibility.

Speaking of flexibility, FP4 is a unique emulsion that exhibits the most latitude of error and still produced tremendous results at the other end of the scale with TMX. Delta 100 is a middle of the ftexibility pack with TMY(2). Plus I have purchased FP4 and Delta 100 in ULF sheet film sizes. Unless your last name is Vanderbilt you may have a problem paying $25 a sheet for ULF from anything from Kodak.

Pere Casals
3-Dec-2017, 16:03
And when you make photographs you realize that an MTF curve and $4 may get you a fancy cup of coffee, not much more.

TMX is great if you have a JOBO and are willing to process it in T Max developer or D76. It is cranky as hell with any other process and mandates critical temperature consistency and precise rotation through the development process. TMX also has a UV coating which eliminates it for any alt process work.

TMY (2) the improved version on the other hand is tremendously flexible in any process and developer and even sings in ABC pyro tray developed. The tonalities it exhibits are wonderful in print form. I like flexibility.

Speaking of flexibility, FP4 is a unique emulsion that exhibits the most latitude of error and still produced tremendous results at the other end of the scale with TMX. Delta 100 is a middle of the ftexibility pack with TMY(2). Plus I have purchased FP4 and Delta 100 in ULF sheet film sizes. Unless your last name is Vanderbilt you may have a problem paying $25 a sheet for ULF from anything from Kodak.


Beyond the UV blocking issue of TMX for alternative, I see no flexibility difference of TMX vs TMY-II, I find same response, anyway I don't use stain. With TMX/Y and HP5 I find high densities in highlights, while FP4 has a clear shoulder, but this is seen at 1.8D. Until 1.8D (with N dev) all behave near the same, IMHO.

The real practical difference I find with all those films (for LF) is spectral response, requiring slight different filtering to obtain the same, I see this clearly with skin tones under daylight. Beyond sensitization related spectral response the pink juice from TMax works as a partial self-screening, no doubt with that. Until I know, sensitizing dyes can be washed from emulsion without any loss, so IMHO if coloured juices are shipped with film this should be to act as incorporated color filters.

With HP5 I find I can record textures of extreme highlights (glares) like with TMax, With FP4 and Delta I feel less highlight latitude, 1 stop less perhaps. Anyway with HP5 and TMax texture of those extreme highlights are really difficult to print...

Michael Kadillak
3-Dec-2017, 16:33
Beyond the UV blocking issue of TMX for alternative, I see no flexibility difference of TMX vs TMY-II, I find same response, anyway I don't use stain. With TMX/Y and HP5 I find high densities in highlights, while FP4 has a clear shoulder, but this is seen at 1.8D. Until 1.8D (with N dev) all behave near the same, IMHO.

The real practical difference I find with all those films (for LF) is spectral response, requiring slight different filtering to obtain the same, I see this clearly with skin tones under daylight. Beyond sensitization related spectral response the pink juice from TMax works as a partial self-screening, no doubt with that. Until I know, sensitizing dyes can be washed from emulsion without any loss, so IMHO if coloured juices are shipped with film this should be to act as incorporated color filters.

With HP5 I find I can record textures of extreme highlights (glares) like with TMax, With FP4 and Delta I feel less highlight latitude, 1 stop less perhaps. Anyway with HP5 and TMax texture of those extreme highlights are really difficult to print...

As you know the density capabilities of a film can be "adjusted" to greatly enhance this by both the developer and the process. Yes, FP4 + in some developers and processes can have a tendency to roll over in the highlights. Yet when you process it in highly diluted Pyrocat using Reduced Agitation Development (RAD) it goes on to N+2 and beyond without a hitch. Yes, TMX like Tri X is known to display skin tones optimally.

My experience with HP5 is exactly the opposite of yours. Your last comment above I do not understand. You say you can record highlights with HP5 and then at the end say they are difficult to print. Why? I bought a box of 11x14 HP5 a few years back and processed half a dozen sheets and learned pretty quickly that it can be a nice film as in normal scenes long as you do not ask it to do too much. The highlights can go into no mans land without even trying. I want film that I can use all the time so I gave the HP5 to a friend.

Here is my rule of thumb using factual information on a films density capabilities. Ask an alt processes printer what they use? HP5 is rarely if ever in that response.

Pere Casals
4-Dec-2017, 03:34
My experience with HP5 is exactly the opposite of yours. Your last comment above I do not understand. You say you can record highlights with HP5 and then at the end say they are difficult to print. Why?


Hello Michael,

What you do is great... from ULF to Pt/Pd optically... I'd like to learn that !!! pure authenticity, that requires a true photographer...


Of course all films can be developed playing with local developer exhaustion to limit higlights...

I find negatives with +2.0D densities difficult to print, if it is HP5, TMX or TMY.

This is the second 8x10 sheet I shot 2 years ago, with densities anotated in the image, I find difficult to print it, I don't obtain the optical print I'd like:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/125592977@N05/28693688313/in/dateposted-public/

Now I'm finishing tests with selective masking and I'll try with that:
http://phototechmag.com/selective-masking-part-iii-computer-techniques-for-the-traditional-darkroom/

FP4 has a very clear shoulder (see FP4 datasheet), thus limiting Max density, while TMX and HP5 builts more and more density with extreme highlights. IMHO, with FP4, a contrasty negative is easier to print because the film itsef makes the highlight compression in the shoulder. Linear films do record better highlight detail, but at higher densities, then we need to use advanced darkroom techniques to locally control exposure and contrast. This is IMHO...

All this comes from grain formulation, I think it is not "high technology at all". If emulsion includes a share of very small and low ISO grains, this builts more and more density instead showing a shoulder.



Ask an alt processes printer what they use? HP5 is rarely if ever in that response.

There are people around using HP5 for pt/pd. It is true that before 1998 HP5 had a higher fog+base that was not convenient for Pt/Pd, but since 1998 base+fog of HP5 is around 0.1D, making it suitable for Pt/Pd, with also very proportional stain.

Anyway most may prefer FP4 because the curve shoulder, or other I don't know.

Silver halide paper is offered in Variable Contrast ,allowing for split grade printing, etc, so it is possible to print difficult negatives. With Pt/Pd we have an straight printing process with way less flexibility so (IMHO) it is critical having the scale adjusted in the negative itself, taking advantage of shoulder and toe footprint.

For this reason some peope use digital negatives to print Pt/Pd, they do all local exposure/contrast control with photoshop !!!!!

In that case result is accurate, but IMHO it has not the same "merit" than cooking a precise negative that will perform as one wants on the Pt/Pd media, or using masking (UM,SCIM,CRM, etc). This is also IMHO. Nothing aganist digital negatives, just saying it makes it way easier (beyond adjustable contact print size).


...but I feel way more merit in the way you do it, and also love the implicit authenticity involved.



Regards,
Pere

Sal Santamaura
28-Dec-2017, 14:00
Heads up -- today B&H lowered its price on 8x10 TMY-2:


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533811-USA/Kodak_1930106_TMY_8_x_10.html

It had been $104 per box.There were only five boxes left in stock when I posted that, and they sold out quickly. Today it came back in stock; there are 148 boxes available as of this moment.

Pere Casals
28-Dec-2017, 15:15
With the price of silver as shown in

http://silverprice.org/silver-price-history.html



The silver content in a 8x10 sheet now is under $1 worth, during the high 2011/12 silver prices it could had been around $1.7.

Cheap X-Ray films have even x3 more silver. Tabular emulsions contain the minimum figures (around 3gr/m2 ?), perhaps 1/5 of what some X-Ray (until 18gr/m2) films can contain.

RoHS is from 2002/2003, but took effect on 1 July 2006, this is when the Silver price rocketed. Probably high prices stimulated prospection and production, so most of RoHS effect happened yet. IMHO you are pretty right about how market behaves.

Drew Wiley
29-Dec-2017, 10:33
B&H has the annoying habit of jacking the price of certain films & papers when they're in short supply, then relaxing the price when they're abundant. As far as comparing certain substitute films, TMY not only has the extra speed often needed in small-aperture 8X10 outdoor work, but has much better edge effect than TMX, so actually looks sharper in a print, despite the slower TMX having the ability to carry a bit more detail. FP4 does not dig as deep into the shadows as much as either TMax, nor have the same degree of plus development potential. I shoot all these films in 8X10, depending on conditions and subject matter. But Delta 100 is a completely different animal more in the league of old-school Plus-X with a very long toe. TMax also seems to be a more robust than Ilford sheet films in terms of Dev scratches. Batch to batch consistency has been excellent for me so far.

Sal Santamaura
29-Dec-2017, 17:07
B&H has the annoying habit of jacking the price of certain films & papers when they're in short supply, then relaxing the price when they're abundant...That's exactly the opposite of what I reported in this thread. On December 1 (post #11), when it had only five (very fresh) boxes left, B&H significantly lowered the price of 8x10 TMY-2. Then, yesterday, when it received a large shipment of 8x10 TMY-2, B&H kept the price at $89.95 per box, compared to the $104 per box it had been charging up through November 30.

Even if the practice you describe had happened (it didn't), I wouldn't refer to it as "annoying." Rather, I'd call it "supply and demand in action." :)

It's interesting to note that, since I wrote post #20 yesterday, B&H has already sold ten boxes of 8x10 TMY-2. Available stock is down to 138 boxes.

Drew Wiley
30-Dec-2017, 19:27
Oh Gosh, Sal, I've been following this for quite awhile in their film & paper pricing. Don't get me wrong - I buy quite a bit from them. But whenever they know they've got a stranglehold on a commodity ...

Sal Santamaura
7-Aug-2018, 07:49
B&H just got in another shipment of 8x10 TMY-2. As I post this, there are 142 boxes available at $89.95 per 10-sheet box.


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533811-USA/Kodak_1930106_TMY_8_x_10.html

Note that that's $10 per box lower than the current price of 8x10 320TXP. :)

drewf64
7-Aug-2018, 10:42
Sal:
Thanks for the heads-up regarding the Tmax400 pricing & availability at B&H.
Just placed an order for 8x10 & 4x5.
Free shipping to boot!!

Sal Santamaura
5-Feb-2019, 19:36
At this moment, B&H has 45 boxes of 8x10 TMY-2 in stock. It has just lowered the price to $69.95 per box.


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533811-USA/Kodak_1930106_TMY_8_x_10.html

Other Kodak sheet film is being discounted too. I don't know whether Kodak's financial situation has motivated rebates to retailers, but anyone who likes this film, especially in 8x10, ought consider picking up some now.

rdeloe
5-Feb-2019, 19:44
Is the 4x5 version TMY-2 or original? The box looks like the old one. I've seen the new labelling at other vendors.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/545368-USA/Kodak_8438202_TMY_4053_4_x.html

Sal Santamaura
5-Feb-2019, 20:02
Is the 4x5 version TMY-2 or original? The box looks like the old one...New (current) version. Only TMY-2 has been coated since, if memory serves, 2007. B&H probably never updated its Web page illustration.

Drew Wiley
5-Feb-2019, 22:01
Oh gosh, how long has it been from the transition to TMY-2? Well over twenty years it seems. I'd personally have to go back longer than that to find an 8x10 shot in my own files which used the older version of TMY.

Vaughn
5-Feb-2019, 22:21
I picked up a couple boxes -- unfortunately I had to pay shipping. No free shipping to PO Boxes...and that is all we have here in town.

Drew Wiley
5-Feb-2019, 22:26
You residents of the Republic of Jefferson shouldn't have seceded to begin with!

Vaughn
5-Feb-2019, 23:17
If you don't secede the first time, try, try again!

rdeloe
6-Feb-2019, 07:02
That's what I figured, thanks.


New (current) version. Only TMY-2 has been coated since, if memory serves, 2007. B&H probably never updated its Web page illustration.

pepeguitarra
6-Feb-2019, 07:14
You residents of the Republic of Jefferson shouldn't have seceded to begin with!

I am moving there. I have seen lots of SFciscans coming over here on weekends.

drewf64
6-Feb-2019, 12:56
Hey Sal:
Thank you for the "heads-up" AGAIN !! on the great price for TMAX400!
Just stocked up!
Drew


At this moment, B&H has 45 boxes of 8x10 TMY-2 in stock. It has just lowered the price to $69.95 per box.


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533811-USA/Kodak_1930106_TMY_8_x_10.html

Other Kodak sheet film is being discounted too. I don't know whether Kodak's financial situation has motivated rebates to retailers, but anyone who likes this film, especially in 8x10, ought consider picking up some now.

Sal Santamaura
6-Feb-2019, 15:17
...Thank you for the "heads-up" AGAIN !! on the great price for TMAX400!...You're most welcome.

Tin Can
6-Feb-2019, 15:20
Yes, Sal, thank you!

Vaughn
6-Feb-2019, 15:42
Still not as low as the regular price of FP4+, my main film of choice, but I bought two boxes (only 20 sheets, alas) of TMax400 that I'll toss in the fridge for when I need the speed. Quite the collection in there!

Alan9940
6-Feb-2019, 21:28
Another thank you, Sal, for the heads up! Already have enough 8x10 film in the freezer, but I ordered two boxes today; couldn't resist the price. ;)