300mm Sironar-S doesn't fit Phillips Explorer

[danchan]

I have a late-model Phillips Explorer 8x10 that takes Technika-style lensboards. I used to use a 300mm APO Symmar-L lens with it with no problems.

I tried mounting a 300mm Sironar-S for the first time last night and found that while the lens rear element fits through the circular hole in Explorer, if I try and angle the lens in order to slot the bottom edge of the lens board in, the top of the rear element doesn't clear.

This wasn't an issue with the APO Symmar-L since the rear-element on that lens didn't immediately flare out. There was some clearance so I was able to insert the rear-element through the opening and then angle the lens.

It looks like if I were able to get a Copal 3 lens board that was drilled just 2mm lower, I'd be able to make the 300mm Sironar-S work, but I'm not sure.

Has anyone run across this issue with the 300mm Sironar-S?

Does anyone know where I can get a Copal 3 lens board custom drilled?

Is there something else I'm doing wrong?

Picture of lens without lens boards is the APO Symmar-L. Picture of lens with lens board is the Sironar-S. Notice the difference in rear element shape.

[Oren Grad]

Yes, there are a few modern lenses with especially large rear cells that won't fit through the front standard of most of Dick's cameras, or at least can't tilt into place when mounted, as you've discovered.

I discussed this with Dick when I bought a new camera from him. He ended up carving an extra "bite" out of the top part of the front standard opening in the camera to accommodate the lenses I wanted to be able to use.

[Joe Forks]

How about a top hat lens board for that lens?

[ic-racer]

You may be able to re-mount it in a board with a lower hole. I was able to put a low hole on the board for my 300mm Fujinon, but my 210 Angulon needed a hole centered around the lip.

[Bob Salomon]

Linhof 001013 Technika lens board with a pilot hole. Any machinest and most camera repair shops can then mill a hole to clear the lip of the hole in your front standard. It is an easy fix.

[Oren Grad]

OK, my bad for not paying close enough attention on my first read, though I think the result is the same. Do you have a camera from Dick's last run of Explorers, that takes Technika rather than Sinar boards?

The 300 S shouldn't be a problem on Phillips cameras that take Sinar boards, but of course the opening on those Technika-board Explorers is much smaller. If there's no excess frame to be carved away as there is on the cameras with the larger front standard, you'll have to try with a board drilled a bit lower than usual. If that doesn't work, I think you'll just have to go with the smaller lens.

[danchan]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I've never seen a top hat lens board. I imagine that's just the opposite of a recessed lens board? Where would I find one?

I think there is some frame that could be cut away to let the lens clear, but I think I'll leave that as a last resort. I'm going to get a hole drilled 2mm lower on the lens board to see if that works.

Anyone have any experiences with S.K. Grimes?

[Oren Grad]

Anyone have any experiences with S.K. Grimes?

Yes, starting back when Steve was still around and continuing under Adam Dau's stewardship. Their work for me has always been excellent.

[Joe Forks]

Re: top hat lens board

I've seen them on the auction site occasionally, but I'm not positive it's going to work for your application, you might want to investigate that, mainly the size of that rear element has to fit within the extension.

Re; SK Grimes - top notch and high marks!

EDIT: I bet Bob Salomon knows where to get a wista/technika type top hat lens board, and could also tell you if your lens will fit in it. Send him a PM

[Bob Salomon]

Re: top hat lens board

I've seen them on the auction site occasionally, but I'm not positive it's going to work for your application, you might want to investigate that, mainly the size of that rear element has to fit within the extension.

Re; SK Grimes - top notch and high marks!

EDIT: I bet Bob Salomon knows where to get a wista/technika type top hat lens board, and could also tell you if your lens will fit in it. Send him a PM

I already posted what he has to do.

[Joe Forks]

Thanks Bob, much appreciated. Is that his only option? Perhaps the wista board #214518 will work just as well at 1/3 the price, though?

Maybe he will have other occasions to use the top hat lens board, and in that case he may want to investigate B&H Photo video and do a search under Wista Lensboards :)

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks Bob, much appreciated. Is that his only option? Perhaps the wista board #214518 will work just as well at 1/3 the price, though?

Maybe he will have other occasions to use the top hat lens board, and in that case he may want to investigate B&H Photo video and do a search under Wista Lensboards :)

That is what we use to put those large diameter lenses in 3 shutter on the Technika cameras so it will work for every other camera with the same board and enough bellows draw.

[Steve Hamley]

Maybe I'm missing something, but a "tophat" for a Copal #3, even if you could find one, would move the large diameter portion of the rear cell closer to the standard, not further. In other words, it would "turn" the Schneider into the Rodenstock. ???

I think Bob is right.

Cheers, Steve

[Joe Forks]

The whole lens could / would sit in front of the front standard including the rear element, depending on the length of extension. Several different lengths are available and if I'm not mistaken they can be combined.

OP wants to use the Rodenstock, not the Schneider, and Bob says it will work right above you. It may or may not be the best solution, but it's another option besides paying $150 for a blank lens board. - and we know what the odds of that happening are :)

Best
Joe

[Michael Jones]

Unless the extension or top hat board is 3" long, you'll still hit the top standard.

I'd suggest buying a blank "technika" style board (or one from Bob) and having Adam at SK Grimes machine it to fit lower on the board. I doubt the whole package would come to $100 including postage.

Call Jim at Midwest to see what used boards he has in stock.

Good luck.

Mike

[Joe Forks]

Yes, the blank wista board is only $47.50 brand new at B&H, it's got an off center pilot hole. I would definitely check with Jim and see what he has on hand. I wonder if OP has solved the problem yet and what ro0ute he chose.

And, no the lens won't hit the top standard with the top hat - it only hits now when he tries to mount it, because he has to tilt the lens board to get it in. He should also know he gets the advantage of extra extension with the top hat which may or may not be of interest for OP.

[Bob Salomon]

Yes, the blank wista board is only $47.50 brand new at B&H, it's got an off center pilot hole. I would definitely check with Jim and see what he has on hand. I wonder if OP has solved the problem yet and what ro0ute he chose.

And, no the lens won't hit the top standard with the top hat - it only hits now when he tries to mount it, because he has to tilt the lens board to get it in. He should also know he gets the advantage of extra extension with the top hat which may or may not be of interest for OP.

NO, IT HAS A CENTERED HOLE. LOOK ON THE BACK OF THE BOARD AND THE HOLE IS CENETERED IN THE CIRCLE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE BOARD MILLED SO THE HOLE IS HIGH IN THE CIRCLE SO THE SHOULDER OF THE REAR GROUP WILL CLEAR THE HOLE IN THE front standard. Sorry for the caps. Hit the wrong key by mistake.

[Joe Forks]

Sorry about the mistake Bob, it looked off center from the photo, my bad.

Here's the photo http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63469-REG/Wista_214518_Blank_Lensboard.html

and double whammy on me.... I thought the problem was the TOP of the rear element, not the bottom - oh, sure enough, he says "the top of the rear element doesn't clear."

[danchan]

My current plan is to contact S.K. Grimes about drilling a hole 1.5-2.0mm lower off-center. I haven't contacted them about it yet. I'll let everyone know how it goes and try to post pictures later.

[Peter Gomena]

Unscrew the back element. Mount the lens board with front element and shutter attached. Screw the back element back in. Not much fun in the field, but doable.

Peter Gomena