Fresh film in luggage scanner

[Tim Meisburger]

Unthinkingly I checked my carry-on bag with a fresh box of Adox Art 50 inside. I know it would be toast normally, but in this case I had the film, and several loaded film holders, in a Filmsafe bag (one of those lead lined bags). Does anyone have any idea if the film might be okay, or if it is toast anyway. I don't want top shoot it if it is ruined, and my only other option at this point is to try to find chemicals locally (Tucson) and test it. I might be able to do that today, but with all the holidday stuff going on that might be difficult.

I continue to discover new ways to screw up...

Tim

[Kevin Crisp]

The conventional wisdom is that if the bag was scanned, the lead might attract extra attention and dosage. I'd find a local lab and give them a sheet out of the box. If the holders were not positioned right on top of the box that doesn't mean they'd be OK. There is a significant chance the film is ruined, do you want to take that chance and shoot it? They don't x ray every bag so things may be OK and maybe the bag was enough protection if they did. Or just buy some new film in Tucson and use that and test the rest when you get home.

[BetterSense]

Not all checked luggage is scanned. Only some percentage (less than 50%) is actually xray scanned. So your film might be ok. I would test a sheet from the top and bottom of the stack and if they are clear I would assume the film is good.

[Tim Meisburger]

Okay. Thanks guys. I think I will try to pick up some chemicals and do some tests. Otherwise, maybe I'll just buy some film now and test when I get home.

Cheers, Tim

[Frank Petronio]

It's ISO 50, it's probably fine. Why not buy some fresh film and mix it in so you have half and half?

[Brian Ellis]

It's ISO 50, it's probably fine. Why not buy some fresh film and mix it in so you have half and half?

I don't travel with film much any more so I may not be up to date on the latest information but I've never heard that ASA 50 or even 25 is o.k. if it's in the luggage. I wouldn't take a chance without testing and I don't think I'd mix it in with film I knew was good even if one or two sheets pass a test. Why do you suggest that?

[Frank Petronio]

I don't mean mixing it blindly, I just mean shoot the potentially fogged 50 stuff and buy some fresh "whatever you can get on location" film and shoot that too, doubling up on the shots, at least the best ones.

I don't know whether it's fogged but it sounds like there are enough instances being reported where people have not had trouble with even their normal ISO 100-400 film, plus the fact that he used a lead bag... that I'd probably go for it, unless it was a job or something really important. But for general fun shooting, why not shoot half and half?

[rdenney]

I don't know whether it's fogged but it sounds like there are enough instances being reported where people have not had trouble with even their normal ISO 100-400 film, plus the fact that he used a lead bag... that I'd probably go for it, unless it was a job or something really important. But for general fun shooting, why not shoot half and half?

Don't confuse the toy X-rays in the security line, which seem to leave slower films unaffected, with the big honking X-rays used in the checked baggage inspections. And it is true that they crank up the dosage when they can't see something, such as the contents of a lead bag. Also, the lead in those bags is so thin that it doesn't do that much anyway.

If a person normally makes two exposures of every shot, then, sure, use new stuff for one and old stuff for the other, if keeping them straight isn't more trouble than it's worth. But if they don't do that, doing so will be little better than just throwing the old stuff away.

What price peace of mind? Buy new stuff (if you can) and ship the old stuff back home for careful testing.

Rick "thinking there are already enough things that can go wrong with large-format" Denney

[Jim Michael]

What manufacturer and model of x-ray devices do they typically use? Find that out and locate a manual or test data, then calculate your shielding required (http://www.ehow.com/how_7629916_calculate-lead-shielding.html) and see if your bag had sufficient sheilding. Or, just pretend you have a Holga and go shoot it.

[Kevin Crisp]

The checked bag x-ray treatment is MUCH worse than carry on. The damage looks like intense lightning marks (stripes, sort of) on the film. I don't think slower film can be immune to this, what I have seen is very high density lines.

You could use just developer, give it a normal time, turn the lights on and check. The damage I have seen would be obvious even at that step of processing. If you do a water rinse, you'd have a little longer to look.

[BrianShaw]

... the big honking X-rays used in the checked baggage inspections. And it is true that they crank up the dosage when they can't see something, such as the contents of a lead bag.

Agreed.

If I remember correctly, the CTX machines used for checked baggage is two-phase examination: regular X-ray as an initial screen and then if something suspicious is seen (or not seen in the case of a lead bag) CT is applied. I seem to remember that from a meeting with the CTX mfgr... but that was a long time ago so maybe my memory is faulty.


... Also, the lead in those bags is so thin that it doesn't do that much anyway.

Also agreed.

The lead in my lead bag was just thick enough to consistently attract the attention, in a negative way, of airport screeners. Since I got rid of it I now get through the screening process a lot quicker and with a lot less stress. And no fogged film either!

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks guys. The best bet seems to be to test some film, but I may not have time or opportunity while I am here to find chemicals, so may just shoot a few with what I have, and no expectations. Best I can hope for is they did not scan the bag. Oh well...

[eddie]

buy new film.

ship it to your self. should be easy enough to do. freestyle is not far from Az.

put a "help" request, there may be film shooters in or around Tuscon that could help.

my last accidental film in check bag stuff come out fine....but you know how it goes....only the best and most important film would be ruined by the x ray machine.

eddie

[Rayt]

Not all checked luggage is scanned. Only some percentage (less than 50%) is actually xray scanned.

How do you know this? I am just curious.

[IanG]

How do you know this? I am just curious.

All luggage is scanned but usually using the same type of scanners as carry on baggage which are film safe, then some is scanned again using deep more intrusive X-rays when an object can't be identified.

This film definitely need to be tested.

Ian

[BetterSense]

How do you know this? I am just curious.

The TSA documents that were leaked earlier this year say so. It makes sense, because it would take a lot of time and manpower to xray everything. There is no point in xraying it if someone isn't sitting there inspecting the contents by eye.

[BrianShaw]

The TSA documents that were leaked earlier this year say so. It makes sense, because it would take a lot of time and manpower to xray everything. There is no point in xraying it if someone isn't sitting there inspecting the contents by eye.

I haven't seen those documents, but the manufacturers make their specifications and "recommended usage" information quite available on the internet.

[rdenney]

How do you know this? I am just curious.

It certainly is not true in the airports I frequent (particularly Dulles, but also many others), where I put the bag down right at the big scanning machine that they use. I've never yet seen them carry a bag around that machine. Maybe when they get all the machines in the back room, that will be the case.

Rick "no stranger to airports" Denney

[Fred L]

Oversized, in Canada at least, has to be loaded personally by the traveller into the huge arse xray/scanning machine. I always presume my CHECKED baggage is going to be showered in xrays before being loaded onto planes, esp in the current flying environment. All the 400 speed film I accidentally left in the baggage on one trip had some cool wavy lines, pretty well rendering it useless. I suppose someone with lots of time could post process them out.

[rguinter]

It certainly is not true in the airports I frequent (particularly Dulles, but also many others), where I put the bag down right at the big scanning machine that they use. I've never yet seen them carry a bag around that machine. Maybe when they get all the machines in the back room, that will be the case.

Rick "no stranger to airports" Denney

I travel frequently for business and often put my laptop inside my suitcase... because it is old and (essentially) valueless so I'm not worried about it being damaged.

And I am sick and tired of the hassle of carrying it through and having to pull it out and send it separately through the carry-on scanner.

So far, over the course of several years, and dozens of trips, every time I do this my suitcase is opened and torn apart so they can hand-inspect the old bugger. How do I know this?... they always leave their little love-note inside my disheveled suitcase informing me that my suitcase was "selected at random" for a thorough search.

To me this suggests (at least through the airports that I'm travelling) that significantly more than 50% of bags are heavily x-rayed. Perhaps all of them.

Bob (who is also no stranger to airports) G.

[ki6mf]

I did the same with HP5 and shot some test shots to see the results. It did add a stop or two to my exposure. This is most evident in the area that was protected in the clear border areas. I did not test this with a densitometer and the inspection was done visually. I will throw off your images is the bottom line.