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View Full Version : Fujinon 1200mm F24 Lens Found!!!



LH1H17
18-Dec-2010, 08:19
Behind Glass, at the Fujifilm exhibit in Tokyo (Midtown, near Roppongi crossing). :rolleyes:

http://www.liangh.com/1200/1200a.jpg

http://www.liangh.com/1200/1200b.jpg

LH1H17
18-Dec-2010, 08:23
Quick stats:

Fujinon A 1200mm f/24, 6 lenses in 4 groups, 50 degree coverage for 1120mm image circle, in Copal #3, 102mm front filter size and single coated.

I currently own three samples of the A 600mm f/11 lens but this is the first time I've seen the 1200mm! The only one left on my watch list now is the 300 SW.

ic-racer
18-Dec-2010, 09:04
Telephoto?

Richard K.
18-Dec-2010, 09:51
The only one left on my watch list now is the 300 SW.

Is this an imaginary entity or was one actually PRODUCED?!? I've seen it listed in Fuji catalogues and seen it discussed but I've NEVER heard of anyone actually seeing one, let alone fondling one...

Songyun
18-Dec-2010, 10:07
Quick stats:

Fujinon A 1200mm f/24, 6 lenses in 4 groups, 50 degree coverage for 1120mm image circle, in Copal #3, 102mm front filter size and single coated.

I currently own three samples of the A 600mm f/11 lens but this is the first time I've seen the 1200mm! The only one left on my watch list now is the 300 SW.

Technically it is copal 3s,I have seen one at MPEX, it was later sold to some buyer in Asia.

Are you sure that 300SW is the last one on your watch list? How about 200mm Hypergon...:D

David Karp
18-Dec-2010, 12:23
Post from the next buyer: "Can I use this lens on my 4x5 Tachihara?"

Mark Stahlke
18-Dec-2010, 13:09
Can I use this lens on a Speed Graphic?

Dan Fromm
18-Dec-2010, 13:53
Um, Mark, the longest focal length that can be made to work on 2x3 Graphics -- two, set up front to back -- is around 19". Without doing the arithmetic, I think 48" would be a bit long for a pair of 5x7 Speeds.

But since the thing is in shutter, setting up any of the Cambos that uses a 1"x1" rail to work with it should be fairly easy. Don't know about other monorail cameras, suggest Cambos only because I know where to get inexpensive 1"x1" rail that Cambo standards will go on.

Yes, I knew you were joking. A serious answer is sometimes the best response to a joke.

Brian K
18-Dec-2010, 14:28
If I pop 2-12" extensions onto my 36" sinar rail I could use that sucker.....

Brian C. Miller
18-Dec-2010, 15:00
Toyo cameras have a back extension, so if those were just ganged together to an appropriate length... (sort of defeats the purpose of a lightweight field camera, though)

Oh, hey, look! Dry plates! Right next to the lens!

ic-racer
18-Dec-2010, 15:31
Telephoto?

It isn't, right? I don't see a "T" in the literature. Also, it seems many telephotos have an image circle about one-half the focal length. Whereas this thing has a massive image circle, over 3 feet!

LH1H17
18-Dec-2010, 18:10
This is a very long lens, but not a telephoto design lens (so more than 1m of bellows is required!) Would be great for uber large formats! ;)

Two23
19-Dec-2010, 15:42
At f24, how could you see to focus?


Kent in SD

domaz
19-Dec-2010, 15:59
At f24, how could you see to focus?


Kent in SD

Simple- Night-vision googles.

Steve M Hostetter
19-Dec-2010, 16:19
This can't be a telephoto with an image circle of 1120mm .. I bet it's sharp as hell

Drew Wiley
19-Dec-2010, 16:25
Are you sure this is an "A" or a complete oddball? A 1200A came up for sale last
year for an obscene amount; the coverage must have been ridiculous.

Mark Stahlke
19-Dec-2010, 16:57
Imagine the possibilities as a macro lens. At 1:1 this lens could probably cover 4x5. Feet.
Of course, the front and rear standards might be in different counties, but still...
:D

Heespharm
19-Dec-2010, 17:54
Just out of curiosity how much is this lens worth?? Are we thinking Honda civic or Cadillac prices

Brian C. Miller
19-Dec-2010, 17:59
Ferrari prices. This sold for Cadillac prices when it was new.

Heespharm
19-Dec-2010, 19:49
Ferrari prices. This sold for Cadillac prices when it was new.

That gets a two syllable damn.... Dayyyaamnnnn!!!

Carsten Wolff
20-Dec-2010, 06:57
:) .....At the other end of the spectrum: My ~800mm 8x10 Telephoto lens cost me all of 20 bucks for a teleconverter (on my 450mm Fujinon-C).
(PS: .....still takes 52mm filters, adds about 60g to my camera pack weight and needs no increase in bellows extension (insert Dr Evil laugh)).
- But of course, I'm no collector.

Dan Fromm
20-Dec-2010, 07:25
Carsten, which TC do you use with your 450? I ask because I recently came across a Horseman 2x that seems to work properly only with a 150 mm +/- lens.

GPS
20-Dec-2010, 12:27
It is not a lens that would be too difficult to focus (too dark) - with its f24 it is not far from the Fine Art Schneider 1100mm /f22. The fact that the rays angular spread is not extreme helps.
Fujinon often beat the other lens manufacturing firms with an edition of smaller and lighter lenses. In this aspect this lens beats Nikon 1200mm /f18 because of its f24 aperture. It was a clever strategy that gave us some excellent lenses.

Carsten Wolff
20-Dec-2010, 12:32
Carsten, which TC do you use with your 450? I ask because I recently came across a Horseman 2x that seems to work properly only with a 150 mm +/- lens.

Hi, Dan, :)
I use an Olympus C-180. I added a slip-on adapter ring to the front to be able to use filters, as the C-180 hasn't got a front filter thread.

Best,
Carsten

LH1H17
20-Dec-2010, 15:22
Focus should not be too difficult due to the long focal length and larger format (thus ground glass) of the camera that should be paired with this monster.

My Fujinon 600C and 600A lenses work fine on 8x10 :)

Dan Fromm
20-Dec-2010, 16:10
Carsten, thanks for the reply. What an evil mind you have! How well does the Oly TC work on y'r Fuji?

You've given me the idea of digging out my 1.4x 67 mm Canon C-8 TC, made for the 814 XL-S and 1014 XL-S, and trying to adapt it to a few of my longer lenses. If I wasn't clear about it, the Horseman TC goes behind the lens, the front of its mount adapter replaces the shutter's retaining ring. With it spacing matters a lot.

Cheers,

Dan

Carsten Wolff
21-Dec-2010, 03:30
Dan,
what can I say? I don't notice any big difference in pic quality, although If I looked closely enough there MUST be SOME, right? Well, perhaps an almost imperceptible loss in contrast, but that may well be inception :).
The only thing that becomes more critical has to do with the focal length and that is: I try not to do windy days with long lenses and have a lens support (Manfrotto 359) / and even wind deflector (umbrella on stand) handy. For that reason (and others) I mostly shoot 5x7" and 6x17cm (color trannies and b/w negs) these days, but briefly used the TC/Fuji combo when I still had the 8x10, initially as a lark, but then it worked so well, I stuck with the TC option.

PS: I popped it onto some other glass on a lazy Sunday; However, didn't seem to work that well on my 300mm Nikkor-M and neither on an 105/2.5 AI-S Nikkor (- absolutely awful there, with flat contrast and dark corners)....perhaps the Oly just doesn't like Nikon? ;)

Michael Jones
23-Dec-2010, 06:48
Telephoto?

"A" series Fujis are not telephoto lenses. You need full bellows length.

Mike

Mark Sampson
23-Dec-2010, 07:17
Long lenses, Cadillac prices, Ferrari prices... reminds me of a photo magazine article in the late '80s that announced a new Leica super-telephoto, 800mm or 1200mm? The article stated that if you ordered this lens, Leica would include as a bonus a new VW Fox automobile, then costing around $8k. Price for the lens/car package was not mentioned. Wonder if they ever sold one?

ampl
14-Jan-2011, 18:52
Quick stats:

Fujinon A 1200mm f/24, 6 lenses in 4 groups, 50 degree coverage for 1120mm image circle, in Copal #3, 102mm front filter size and single coated.

I currently own three samples of the A 600mm f/11 lens but this is the first time I've seen the 1200mm! The only one left on my watch list now is the 300 SW.


How's the optical quality of the A600/11? Comparing to XXL 550/11?
By the way, image circle of A1200 covers much larger than 20x24 film, is it necessary to own this lens?

Nortega
15-Jan-2011, 12:24
Long lenses, Cadillac prices, Ferrari prices... reminds me of a photo magazine article in the late '80s that announced a new Leica super-telephoto, 800mm or 1200mm? The article stated that if you ordered this lens, Leica would include as a bonus a new VW Fox automobile, then costing around $8k. Price for the lens/car package was not mentioned. Wonder if they ever sold one?

Anyone have a link that corroborates this? I kinda believe it but at the same time... that just seems totally random... and frankly hilarious. Here's my new lens in it's Ecnobox... er, EconoFox wrapper!

Mark Sampson
15-Jan-2011, 14:26
I could have been dreaming. I remember reading about that lens deal in the late '80s in, probably, "American Photographer" (which was a better magazine then). At the time I was car-shopping but any new car, even a VW Fox wagon, was out of reach. Perhaps it was the same type of lens that used to be pointed out the window of the old Ken Hansen's in NYC, mounted on a huge cine tripod, with a Leica R attached to it.

Tracy Storer
16-Jan-2011, 14:11
When Polaroid originally built the 20x24s in the late '70s they bought a couple of these, The New York Studio has one.

anton orlov
29-Dec-2018, 15:52
Reviving a thread 8 years after last post.

Question - what would one do if one found this lens in mint condition?

Daniel Unkefer
30-Dec-2018, 10:04
Reviving a thread 8 years after last post.

Question - what would one do if one found this lens in mint condition?

I would configure my 8x10" Norma with two tripods and Sinar Shutter. Like what Reinhart Wolf was doing decades ago, his work inspires me. 800mm Rodenstock Apo Ronar is my longest. And also the 790mm Apo Ronar. Wolfe used 1000mm Zeiss if I remember correctly :/

Guess I will have to keep my eyes open when I go to MPX next week!

Bernice Loui
30-Dec-2018, 10:09
Do not understand the obsession-admiration for a 1200mm f24 Fujinon as there were many other 1200mm focal length lenses made-produced over the decades.

What is SO special about this 1200mm Fujinon other than rarity?



Bernice

ic-racer
30-Dec-2018, 11:31
To bad the pictures from the original post are gone. I forgot what what it looks like.

Bruce Watson
30-Dec-2018, 11:41
Question - what would one do if one found this lens in mint condition?

As Dionne Warwick once sang: "Walk on By".

anton orlov
30-Dec-2018, 18:00
As Dionne Warwick once sang: "Walk on By".

Haha - well, I mean I did, but it kinda decided to follow...


Bernice - 1200mm were made in Tele design usually, those would cover say 11x14 nicely, maybe 16x20 at infinity. This thing has an 1120mm circle of coverage at infinity (44in), so at infinity is can cover a plate 16x40in or like 32x32 square. Also, it's an A, which stands for Apochromatic, highest sharpness correction.

IC-Racer - sorry for doing this, but since I couldn't find a single image of it online, I figured that if I sell it to someone with enough clout, they may not want naked pics of their baby out there, hence the watermark.

185889

Oh, though a friend of mine I spoke to Tracy Storer (who was last to comment in 2010), he operated Polaroids 20x24 in NYC for 30 years form what I understand, and recalls working with this lens. According to his estimate there's 5 or less of them that were ever made, so yeah, until I make an appropriate camera for it I'll keep it in the bank deposit box...

The estate this came from belonged to a guy who SEEMS to have planned on using it for macro (which is what A-series lenses supposedly are amazing at, though of course they'll shoot sharper than others at infinity too). At 1:1 though it would cover a 6ft square plate :O However, the guy bought a Toyo 810GII and NEVER shot an image with it. With the camera came 8 extra 250mm rails and enough bellows and standards to make it into a 7ft long camera (plus there's a back extension accessory there too, so I think it would be 8ft total). He never opened the packages though - set up the camera on two of the rails as display and died.... I'm about to list that whole setup right now actually - for myself I'll make a 16x40in collapsible camera that I can do wet plate with, just so I can shoot this baby once or twice, and yes - I'll use gloves!

185890
185891

anton orlov
30-Dec-2018, 18:02
Oh, I see a actually already listed the Toyo setup - there was so much stuff there that even with all my previous selling experience I'm having a hard time keeping track...

Drew Wiley
30-Dec-2018, 18:29
If it was a 1200 Fuji A, the coverage and optical correction would have been stunning. I wonder if more than two were ever made. It was way back prior to multicoated A's. I did see one listed for sale about two years ago. They were asking $10 per mm of focal length.

anton orlov
30-Dec-2018, 18:36
If it was a 1200 Fuji A, the coverage and optical correction would have been stunning. I wonder if more than two were ever made. It was way back prior to multicoated A's. I did see one listed for sale about two years ago. They were asking $10 per mm of focal length.

Interesting because the one I have for sure hasn't changed hands in 6 years. Tracy said he thinks there's 5 or less of them, I wonder if Polaroid still has their two or did they sell one...? The one Fuji has I assume was probably their own first one and wasn't sold on the market, plus that was 8 years ago. So there's got to be at least 3 of them out there.

Bob Salomon
30-Dec-2018, 19:01
Interesting because the one I have for sure hasn't changed hands in 6 years. Tracy said he thinks there's 5 or less of them, I wonder if Polaroid still has their two or did they sell one...? The one Fuji has I assume was probably their own first one and wasn't sold on the market, plus that was 8 years ago. So there's got to be at least 3 of them out there.

Polaroid was liquidated years ago. The Polaroid you see today is a name only used by a photo dealer/distributor in NJ.

anton orlov
30-Dec-2018, 19:12
Polaroid was liquidated years ago. The Polaroid you see today is a name only used by a photo dealer/distributor in NJ.

Yeah, but aren't the 20x24 cameras running still? Isn't there a kickstarter right now up with Impossible guys wanting to use that chemistry and revive 100-series peel-apart films? I mean Polaroid did sell off the name and all that, I was just wondering if the lenses are still with those cameras... If not, then maybe the two they bought were sold when they went under as a corporation and who knows, maybe the two we're seeing change hands now are them...

Drew Wiley
30-Dec-2018, 19:22
Anton - one of em belongs to a "collector" in China who never uses any of his lenses in order to keep them pristine. Then you mention one in Fuji's own collection. Then there was that one which did sell to some ULF user a couple years ago. And if you have one, that makes four so far.

anton orlov
30-Dec-2018, 19:29
Anton - one of em belongs to a "collector" in China who never uses any of his lenses in order to keep them pristine. Then you mention one in Fuji's own collection. Then there was that one which did sell to some ULF user a couple years ago. And if you have one, that makes four so far.

I might know that 'collector' - couple of my Dallmeyers went to such a gentleman a couple of months back, but the one I know uses them super rarely just to see I think.
The math does work out though to possibly 4, that is if we know that the collector already had his prior to that sale couple years back.

Well, hopefully that Toyo setup sells and on that money I may be able to test it, then at least there will be a sample image from it out there...

Bob Salomon
30-Dec-2018, 19:32
Yeah, but aren't the 20x24 cameras running still? Isn't there a kickstarter right now up with Impossible guys wanting to use that chemistry and revive 100-series peel-apart films? I mean Polaroid did sell off the name and all that, I was just wondering if the lenses are still with those cameras... If not, then maybe the two they bought were sold when they went under as a corporation and who knows, maybe the two we're seeing change hands now are them...

The bankruptcy judge awarded the name to the high bidder. Polaroid had nothing to sell at that point and their owner, Tom Petters was convicted of several federal crimes and is still in jail. His crime was a Ponzi scheme and he was tried the same year as Madoff, but never got his headlines.

Bernice Loui
30-Dec-2018, 20:44
Full aperture of f24 due to the #3 shutter. This would imply taking aperture would typically be f45, maybe f32 to f64. This small an aperture would limit the optical performance of the lens due to diffraction.

Apochromatic lenses of this focal length (1200mm and more) is not rare, there was a time when BIG process cameras had 1200mm focal length lenses or more. These were Apochromatic due to the demands of images they were producing, typically color separations or in the case of a 47-1/2" Goerz APO Artar that once passed my way use to make semiconductor mask from art work original size in feet x feet. This era is long gone today.

Apochromatic remains a nebulous definition as few manufactures will publish their definition of what metric is used to define Apochromatic. So, the APO moniker has about zero meaning in real life. Add to this the very serious difficulty of keeping any photographic media flat of this size is no trivial matter. BIG process cameras that routinely exposed BIG film had precision vacuum backs to assure that Foto media IS Flat and remains Flat during the entire exposure cycle.

Should be worth noting back in the day when these GIANT process cameras were being scrapped, these long focal length lenses were not in great demand thus their market value was not that high. Today, likely due to BIG view cameras with BIG film for making alternative process contact prints, the market value of these BIG lenses has gone up dramatically.

As for image circle.. this will be inherently large due to focal length.

IMO, Fuji could have easily done a better lens if not for the #3 shutter limitation.



Bernice



Haha - well, I mean I did, but it kinda decided to follow...

Bernice - 1200mm were made in Tele design usually, those would cover say 11x14 nicely, maybe 16x20 at infinity. This thing has an 1120mm circle of coverage at infinity (44in), so at infinity is can cover a plate 16x40in or like 32x32 square. Also, it's an A, which stands for Apochromatic, highest sharpness correction.



185889

anton orlov
30-Dec-2018, 21:48
The bankruptcy judge awarded the name to the high bidder. Polaroid had nothing to sell at that point and their owner, Tom Petters was convicted of several federal crimes and is still in jail. His crime was a Ponzi scheme and he was tried the same year as Madoff, but never got his headlines.

Yikes!

anton orlov
30-Dec-2018, 22:04
Bernice,

Interesting point on the taking aperture and diffraction, but for some reason I'm thinking they might have foreseen that and worked it out one way or the other.

Goerz lenses are great and all, but indeed they are huge - 24in is the last one that fits into Copal 3 and the rest are barrels. And oh yeah, note that neither Goerz nor say Nikkor made them all that much faster (for similar lengths it's f15 and 12.5 respectively), which is only like 1.5-2 stops faster, so there's also that question there of what they were thinking aberration-wise there., right? On the other hand, no way to mount a shutter on those babies, so I think whoever mentioned this on the first page of comments 8 years ago was right - Fuji strategy was to make a newer, better corrected lens of same FL, but have it be much lighter, easier workable with field cameras, and fitted in an actual nice shutter.

Not worried about flatness of medium as I'll be shooting glass and aluminum with it (should I ever actually get around to it), as are a lot of people who are buying up big lenses these days. Markets change and indeed what was worthless one day may again be premium some other day, it's all cyclical.

Drew Wiley
30-Dec-2018, 22:11
Film flatness issues can be cured with either an adhesive or vacuum holder. No big deal. As far as diffraction goes, the alleged degredation of f/32 on even 4x5 is hardly even detectable in a 30x40 inch print. Depth of field would be a far bigger issue with a 1200mm lens.

anton orlov
30-Dec-2018, 23:21
Film flatness issues can be cured with either an adhesive or vacuum holder. No big deal. As far as diffraction goes, the alleged degredation of f/32 on even 4x5 is hardly even detectable in a 30x40 inch print. Depth of field would be a far bigger issue with a 1200mm lens.

Haha, I guess that's why they marked apertures down to 128 (as someone said before, not 90 like they were going to) AND it moves much farther down, looks like enough room to go to 256 actually.

Bernice Loui
31-Dec-2018, 09:30
Now for the Academaic... tussle.

Adhesive holder for 20"x24" film, this will need a LOT of stick with significant potential for the 20"x24" film to get stuck. What about air bubbles or alien debris that can occur as the 20"x24" sheet of film is applied to the adhesive film holder?

Vacuum holder for 20"x24" film is common on a process camera. If a 20"x24" camera were to be used outdoors, explain the vacuum pump system and vacuum film back system?

Add to this, camera alignment challenges of a 20"x24" camera.

As for diffraction effects at f32, it really does happen. If an enlargement is made of say 30"x40" from a 4"x5" sheet of film and that 30"x40" print is viewed at say twelve feet or more the differences is not likely going to be visually discernible due to the way human vision works. Now, let's get up close to that 30"x40" print to a distance of less than one foot with a GOOD magnifier. Suddenly actual print quality will be revealed. Better method would be to examine the film using a high quality optical microscope. Evaluation of the film produced with any given lens-camera combo should be done using a high quality microscope, not the print evaluated at a distance.


Bernice


Film flatness issues can be cured with either an adhesive or vacuum holder. No big deal. As far as diffraction goes, the alleged degredation of f/32 on even 4x5 is hardly even detectable in a 30x40 inch print. Depth of field would be a far bigger issue with a 1200mm lens.

EdWorkman
31-Dec-2018, 16:01
<<<<<Now, let's get up close to that 30"x40" print to a distance of less than one foot with a GOOD magnifier. Suddenly actual print quality will be revealed. Better method would be to examine the film using a high quality optical microscope. Evaluation of the film produced with any given lens-camera combo should be done using a high quality microscope, not the print evaluated at a distance>>>

Why would anyone do that??? One can't see the image, only teeny bits.
What's the equivalent magnification for , say, a medium format 'sharp' film at a 'sharp' aperture?
I know Kirk Gittings sez viewing distance doesn't matter, and I disagree from my experience with pinhole images, but except for morbid curiosity, why jam your face so close to an enlargement that the composition is totally lost???
regards
Ed

Jac@stafford.net
31-Dec-2018, 16:08
Reviving a thread 8 years after last post.

Question - what would one do if one found this lens in mint condition?

I will be happy to pay a scrap metal price for it.

Drew Wiley
31-Dec-2018, 16:21
Berenice - it's not like the old days of ATG tape tabs. With the correct 3M adhesive, a 20x24 adhesive holder would be a cinch. The two adhesives, front vs back of the tape, are completely different. But it would be easy to design a portable vac filmholder too these days, really easy. All it takes is a decent little handheld cordless vac. Don't laugh. I've used em on 30x40" vac easels.

Drew Wiley
31-Dec-2018, 16:33
Ed - people got nose to nose with my 30x40 prints all the time. But those were Cibachromes enlarged from 8x10 film, and the level of detail truly warranted it. Not only do I seek an overall effective composition, but want to reward viewers time and again with the ability to discover new details. I consider "normal viewing distance" as hogwash unless you're reading a book. But in the case of the monster lens in question, I presume most of its appeal would be to contact printers, and there's no eye-visible loss in a 20x24 contact print from using such a lens at f/256.

Greg
31-Dec-2018, 16:36
Berenice - it's not like the old days of ATG tape tabs. With the correct 3M adhesive, a 20x24 adhesive holder would be a cinch. The two adhesives, front vs back of the tape, are completely different. But it would be easy to design a portable vac filmholder too these days, really easy. All it takes is a decent little handheld cordless vac. Don't laugh. I've used em on 30x40" vac easels.

Been there and done it in the past. Two mistakes I made: First used a medium size vacuum unit and was way overpowered. All you need is a really small portable vacuum unit. Second was that I used a rather stiff clear length of tubing. It actually transmitted vibrations from the vacuum unit to the holder. A soft very flexible hose solved that. In the end found out that it wasn't worth the trouble for the 11x14 format. But with larger formats could see how that would change things.

Drew Wiley
31-Dec-2018, 16:47
Never use a peristaltic diaphragm or piston vac pump, always rotary. The septum in any 2-sided holder must be reinforced from behind to prevent deflection. The alternate film side becomes a sealed vac chamber. If the holes are small (about 1/16") and intelligently place, surprisingly little vac draw is required, but it must be sustained.