What shutter do I need for this lens ?

[gliderbee]

I have a Schneider-Kreuznach Syummar 1:5,6/150 1:12/265 lens (serial 9082111 if that means anything) with a retaining ring, but no shutter.

As I'm rather new to LF-photography (well, I have a camera for some time, but didn't use it much; picking it up now as I'm following courses at the local Academy), I'm not sure what shutter I should buy for this lens, and where I should buy it.

Any help much appreciated.

Stefan.

[John Kasaian]

You might check out SK Grimes website. IIRC there is a lot of good info on what fits which. If your threads aren't specially cut, it should fit right into an appropriate size Copal or Prontor but maintaining correct spacing will be critical as well as maikinig a correct f-stop scale.
Once you know the size, you might find deals on lenses salvaged from Polaroid copy cameras on ebay---the price for a lens with the shutter is usually far less than the price of a new copal, so you may be able to swap out the elements(or not---it depends) Jim Galli is the undesputed master at this sort of stuff. You might PM him---he might even have a shutter to sell you, freshly mined from his Area 54 Nevada Lens Mine :)

[Dan Fromm]

According to Schneider, #1.

[gliderbee]

Hello John,

Thanks for your answer.

Why should I halve to make a correct f-stop scale ? On the lens, there are two f-stop scales, one for 150mm, from 5.6 to 45, the other for 265mm, from 12 to 45. Aren't these correct then in certain circumstances ?

As for Polaroid copy cameras, never heard of them; I just googled them, but there's a lot of non-info showing. Could you point me to a auction on eBay (as an example; no guarantee from you of course) that might have a shutter I can use ?

I PM'd Jim Galli.

Thanks,
Stefan.




You might check out SK Grimes website. IIRC there is a lot of good info on what fits which. If your threads aren't specially cut, it should fit right into an appropriate size Copal or Prontor but maintaining correct spacing will be critical as well as maikinig a correct f-stop scale.
Once you know the size, you might find deals on lenses salvaged from Polaroid copy cameras on ebay---the price for a lens with the shutter is usually far less than the price of a new copal, so you may be able to swap out the elements(or not---it depends) Jim Galli is the undesputed master at this sort of stuff. You might PM him---he might even have a shutter to sell you, freshly mined from his Area 54 Nevada Lens Mine :)

[gliderbee]

According to Schneider, #1.

Hi Dan,

Where did you find that info ?

Thanks,
Stefan.

[Ole Tjugen]

It fits in a Compur or Copal #1 shutter. The info is somewhere deep in http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com - I can't remember where. But I have one of those myself, so I am absolutely certain it's a #1 shutter.

Hm - I found it: All old Schneider brochures are here: http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm

[gliderbee]

It fits in a Compur or Copal #1 shutter. The info is somewhere deep in http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com - I can't remember where. But I have one of those myself, so I am absolutely certain it's a #1 shutter.

Hm - I found it: All old Schneider brochures are here: http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm

Ok, thanks ! A copal #1 is usd 229 at Badger Graphics. Might be worth it ? What do you think of this lens ?

Stefan.

[Jan Pedersen]

These Schneider Convertible lenses are quite common used so you would better of waiting to find one in a shutter than to buy a new shutter for your lens.
When you buy a new Copal or Compur shutter they come with blank f stop scales so you will need to have a custom scale made and that will ad another 75$ to the price for the shutter.
The f stop scale you have on the lens now will remain on the barel which will not transfer to the shutter, only the front and rear cells will transfer to the shutter.

If you have the patience you can find used Copal 1 shutters on the auction site which would make it a bit more affordable to use your existing lens.

[Dan Fromm]

Hi Dan,

Where did you find that info ?

Thanks,
Stefan.

Here: http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm

I second Jan's advice, disagree with him on one point. His price estimates seem low. Used #1 shutters typically sell, at least in the US, for > $US 100, often nearly $US 200. The shop I use for rescaling shutters charges $50 for one scale; I've never had them scale a shutter for a convertible lens, don't know how much they'd charge for that.

The inexpensive way to get a shutter for your lens is from a Polaroid GelCam (model CU-5, DS-34, DS-39) with a 127/4.7 Tominon lens. The lens will be in a Copal #1 press shutter that is scaled for it. The scale will be a little off for a 150 but this can be lived with. In addition, the GelCam's 127 Tominon is in a #1 shutter that doesn't quite conform to the #1 specification; it is slightly thicker. When I mentioned this to my friend Eric Beltrando (see his site www.dioptrique.info), he did the calculation and said that (a) plasmats are not very sensitive to small errors in cell spacing and (b) a 150 mm plasmat would be fine on the GelCam #1.

Do not get a Polaroid MP-4 (they are so marked) Copal #1 Press shutter, this shutter does not have a diaphragm.

GelCams were offered with 105/4.5, 75/4.5, and 17/4 Tominons, possibly also with 50/4.5 and 35/4.5 Tominons. The 17/4 is front-mounted on a shutter with no diaphragm, the others are all in shutter. You want only the 127/4.7, all of the others are in shutters with restricted maximum aperture. The 127's shutter gives the full #1 30 mm.

I use lenses in barrel a lot, but my situation is somewhat unusual. On the whole, lenses in barrel are poisoned gifts.

[Dan Fromm]

Ok, thanks ! A copal #1 is usd 229 at Badger Graphics. Might be worth it ? What do you think of this lens ?

Stefan.If you shop hard and are patient you should be able to find a 150 Convertible Symmar in shutter for less. And all used shutters need to be overhauled.

The consensus is that Convertible Symmars are usable but that the Symmar-S is significantly better. Newer models are at best slightly better.

I shoot 2x3, have shot my 135/5.6 Convertible Symmar against a 127/4.7 GelCam Tominon. On 2x3 they're pretty much equal, the Tominon may be a little better. So a good 150 Tessar (the best is probably the late 150/5.6 Xenar but 150/6.3 CZJ Tessars are nearly as good and have more coverage) would do well for you. Don't buy a Tessar in barrel and then hope to find a shutter it will fit, there are no guarantees such a shutter exists.

[gliderbee]

What I forgot to mention: since I already have a APO-Symmar 5,6/150, I am/was mostly interested in the 265mm part of the lens, since I'm really looking for a good portrait lens for 4x5.

I can quitly look for a Polaroid Gelcam to see what I can do with this convertible lens, but from the answers given, I think I will do better to look for a specific lens for this application.

The Symmar-S 5,6/210 seems quite popular and not too expensive; is it ok for portrait ?
If I understand right, that should be the equivalent of a 70mm lens in 35mm format, which seems a bit too short, no ? A 250mm or something like thatmight be a better choice, but do these exist ?

Thanks for all your help,
Stefan.