I take an inventory...

[John Kasaian]

...of the Kodak film and papers I have on hand. Since the announcement of the cut back of film from the Great Yellow Father it seemed to be the thing to do. I didn't count a few rolls of aerial roll film stashed in the deep freeze or chemicals.
Here's what I've got:
UNOPENED BOXES
25 sheets 8x10 AZO F2s
100 sheets 8x10 AZO F3s
25 sheets 8x10 TMY un improved (for some reason I thought I had 50 sheets:o )
50 sheets of 8x10 TXP
8 rolls of Verichrome Pan 120
OPENED BOXES
? sheets 8x10 AZO F2s

Of the non-Kodak films & papers I have on hand:
UNOPENED BOXES
200 sheets 8x10 Arista.edu Ultra
25 sheets 8x10 Ilford FP-4+
100 sheets 8x10 Foma Fomabrom N111
100 sheets 8x10 Arista APH
50 sheets 8x10 Efke PL25M
25 sheets 8x10 Fotokemika EMAKS G2 glossy
25 sheets 8x10 Arista Classic Fiber G4 glossy
25 sheets 8x10 Arista Classic Fiber G2 matte
250 sheets 8x10 Arista Classic Fiber G2 glossy
25 sheets 8x10 Forte Fortepan 200
25 sheets 5x7 Ilford HP-5+
OPENED BOXES
? sheets 8x10 Tura VC resin coated semi matte
? sheets 8x10 Ilford Ilfobrome Galerie FB G2 glossy
? sheets 5x7 Arista Pro 400

It dosen't look like Kodak's departure from the 8x10 market is likely to cause me any grief. How is it going to effect you?

[John NYC]

The effect on me is going to be the urge to sell my opened box of tmax 100 8x10. I don't want to waste anymore time shooting this film now that it will be hard to get, especially when I didn't love it in the first place.

[Allen in Montreal]

I agree John,
my fridge and freezer were all yellow when I stocked up before the 2007 change over in Tri-x production. As that stock dwindled in the last year or so, I have slowly gone white.

Kodak's announcement will not effect me much.

I do worry about people like Jim Kitchen who has 8x10 Tmax mastered like few others.
It will be interesting to see if he moves to TXP, which prints well but scans like shit, or to HP-5 which scans better than TXP.

[Jim Noel]

Any photographer worth his salt will be able convert to a different film/developer combination and never slow up.

[John NYC]

Any photographer worth his salt will be able convert to a different film/developer combination and never slow up.

If you search these forums and see exactly how much Jim Kitchen knows about Tmax, you will understand better this comment above. He's put an enormous amount of work into it, beyond what most photographers would ever consider as their "good enough" stopping point. For some people a deep understanding of their tools is part of their process, for others maybe that is not as important.

[John Bowen]

John K,

Let's just say that at the age of 52, I expect to be shooting 35mm, 120/220, 5x7, 8x10 and 7x17 for quite a few more years. Next year, I become an empty nester. The PLAN is to take 2-4 photo trips/year. My inventory of yellow FILM boxes will last almost 10 years. My inventory of yellow Azo boxes will last my lifetime, and then some. I expect my inventory of 8x20 Lodima will also last my lifetime. My inventory of photographic chemicals should outlast me. Hell, I even have extra incandescent lightbulbs on hand to contact print the Azo/Lodima.

It has taken me a little over 5 years to pull this all together. When I think of how much I have invested in 8x10 and 7x17 cameras, holders and lenses it just made sense to me to have a stockpile of the consumables on hand.

So, I'm not worried, just glad I planned ahead.

PS, I think of it as "pre-funding" my retirement. :-)

[John Kasaian]

John K,

Let's just say that at the age of 52, I expect to be shooting 35mm, 120/220, 5x7, 8x10 and 7x17 for quite a few more years. Next year, I become an empty nester. The PLAN is to take 2-4 photo trips/year. My inventory of yellow FILM boxes will last almost 10 years. My inventory of yellow Azo boxes will last my lifetime, and then some. I expect my inventory of 8x20 Lodima will also last my lifetime. My inventory of photographic chemicals should outlast me. Hell, I even have extra incandescent lightbulbs on hand to contact print the Azo/Lodima.

It has taken me a little over 5 years to pull this all together. When I think of how much I have invested in 8x10 and 7x17 cameras, holders and lenses it just made sense to me to have a stockpile of the consumables on hand.

So, I'm not worried, just glad I planned ahead.

PS, I think of it as "pre-funding" my retirement. :-)

At my rate of fire, I could be well stocked with film & paper to last me until I clock out, but I find that my preferences aren't static. I know in the future I'll be shooting more 8x10 HP-5+ (of which I am currently out of) and printing more on Fomabrom N111----and this isn't taking into account ULF, 5x7 & 4x5 formats:eek:

[Michael Kadillak]

John K,

Let's just say that at the age of 52, I expect to be shooting 35mm, 120/220, 5x7, 8x10 and 7x17 for quite a few more years. Next year, I become an empty nester. The PLAN is to take 2-4 photo trips/year. My inventory of yellow FILM boxes will last almost 10 years. My inventory of yellow Azo boxes will last my lifetime, and then some. I expect my inventory of 8x20 Lodima will also last my lifetime. My inventory of photographic chemicals should outlast me. Hell, I even have extra incandescent lightbulbs on hand to contact print the Azo/Lodima.

It has taken me a little over 5 years to pull this all together. When I think of how much I have invested in 8x10 and 7x17 cameras, holders and lenses it just made sense to me to have a stockpile of the consumables on hand.

So, I'm not worried, just glad I planned ahead.

PS, I think of it as "pre-funding" my retirement. :-)

I believe that I am almost in as good a shape as John with materials. Add 11x14 and 8x20 to the mix instead of 7x17 and we are just about next of kin.

I would go crazy buying a box or two of film or paper and small lots of chemistry at a time.

[Pawlowski6132]

Holy crap. Are you guys kidding? If not, I have some questions:

What is your process/motivation for buying film/paper/chemicals? Do you just continue to build inventory or, did you build up to a predetermined inventory and now you're just in replenishment mode?

Do you earn a living from your photography?

Why do you stock so much? Are you trying to buy current products in anticipation of, for example, the recent Kodak announcement or, are you constantly hoarding already discontinued products like AZO?

Will either of you sell me some 8x10 TXP and/or AZO?

:D



I believe that I am almost in as good a shape as John with materials. Add 11x14 and 8x20 to the mix instead of 7x17 and we are just about next of kin.

I would go crazy buying a box or two of film or paper and small lots of chemistry at a time.

[Michael Kadillak]

Holy crap. Are you guys kidding? If not, I have some questions:

What is your process/motivation for buying film/paper/chemicals? Do you just continue to build inventory or, did you build up to a predetermined inventory and now you're just in replenishment mode?

Do you earn a living from your photography?

Why do you stock so much? Are you trying to buy current products in anticipation of, for example, the recent Kodak announcement or, are you constantly hoarding already discontinued products like AZO?

Will either of you sell me some 8x10 TXP and/or AZO?

:D

John can state his rational for his inventory building.

If I am not mistaken we went through this subject in a post previously and you stated very clearly that you had absolutely no interest in buying forward. Your post has me more than a bit confused.

Do I make a living in photography? - No. And in this market I am damn glad that I don't.

I own my own business in another industry.

For years I have gone out of my way to stock my favorite photographic materials and chemicals simply because: 1) I do not want to put my desire to participate in LF/ULF to be dictated by events that I cannot predict or control and 2) I want to show my support for analog photography with action and the only language that matters in this dialog comes from my pocketbook. About every three months I make a serious materials purchase so this is a regular activity for me. It is like I have an insurance policy against the unknown and for me anyway, it feels very good. This is an extension of how I invest and live my life.

The good news is that you can still buy Lodima and TXP so you do not have to ask anyone to sell you anything.

People do not plan to fail, they fail to plan....

[Pawlowski6132]

Thanx for your response Michael. And, I'm just asking...no need to be chippy.



John can state his rational for his inventory building.

If I am not mistaken we went through this subject in a post previously and you stated very clearly that you had absolutely no interest in buying forward. Your post has me more than a bit confused.

Do I make a living in photography? - No. And in this market I am damn glad that I don't.

I own my own business in another industry.

For years I have gone out of my way to stock my favorite photographic materials and chemicals simply because: 1) I do not want to put my desire to participate in LF/ULF to be dictated by events that I cannot predict or control and 2) I want to show my support for analog photography with action and the only language that matters in this dialog comes from my pocketbook. About every three months I make a serious materials purchase so this is a regular activity for me. It is like I have an insurance policy against the unknown and for me anyway, it feels very good. This is an extension of how I invest and live my life.

The good news is that you can still buy Lodima and TXP so you do not have to ask anyone to sell you anything.

People do not plan to fail, they fail to plan....

[Jan Pedersen]

I don't think Michael in any way was "Chippy"
Whether you are a Pro making money from Photography or an Amateur with a burning desire to continue down the path of analog photography using the materials and processes that we have continued to refine we need to plan ahead.

As both John and Michael have visely stocked up so did i and when we now see the film we have come to like and trust disapear it feels good to have been thinking ahead so we can continue to work with what we know in the next 5 to 10 years.

[Pawlowski6132]

Hey, all I did was ask a question. I'm not sure why there's the need to get defensive. And, I do feel he was getting chippy with clauses like, " Your post has me more than a bit confused." and, "...you don't have to ask anyone to sell you anything."






I don't think Michael in any way was "Chippy"
Whether you are a Pro making money from Photography or an Amateur with a burning desire to continue down the path of analog photography using the materials and processes that we have continued to refine we need to plan ahead.

As both John and Michael have visely stocked up so did i and when we now see the film we have come to like and trust disapear it feels good to have been thinking ahead so we can continue to work with what we know in the next 5 to 10 years.

[Jan Pedersen]

TXP is readily available in 8x10, Azo was discontinued in 2006 but Lodima is readily available.
Why are you asking if any one will sell you some? Are you even shooting 8x10?

[John Bowen]

Holy crap. Are you guys kidding? If not, I have some questions:

What is your process/motivation for buying film/paper/chemicals? Do you just continue to build inventory or, did you build up to a predetermined inventory and now you're just in replenishment mode?

Do you earn a living from your photography?

Why do you stock so much? Are you trying to buy current products in anticipation of, for example, the recent Kodak announcement or, are you constantly hoarding already discontinued products like AZO?

Will either of you sell me some 8x10 TXP and/or AZO?

:D

First off, I do not make my living from photography. I too have my own business. I've been hooked on photography since I was a senior in college. Thirty years later, I still enjoy the magic.

I purchased an 8x10 back in 2005. I e-mailed my initial Azo order to MAS the day before Kodak announced the end of b&w paper. Ever since, I've been building my inventory. One of my reasons is that Azo lasts nearly forever. If you are going to stockpile a paper it might as well be a paper that won't go bad while it's sitting on your shelves.

As for the film, you'd have to have your head in the sand to not think that film might disappear during our lifetimes. When J&C did the Kodak TMY deal back in 2006, I purchased what I believed to be a lifetime supply of 7x17. After spending a small fortune on a 7x17, film holders and the related glass, it only made sense to me to spend another small fortune to have film to feed the beast. When J&C went out of business, I took the opportunity to purchase even more film. I remember telling my wife that I saved enough on the film to more than cover the cost of the freezer to store the stuff.

I also purchased all the 5x7 TMY that J&C had on hand during their "moving" sale. I think it was somewhere around 500 or 600 sheets. Keep in mind that J&C offered 40% off orders of $1,000 or more.

The 8x10 film was purchased pretty much by accident. Back in 2007, when Kodak was changing from TMY to TMY-2, I noticed that a few of the retailers were out of stock on 8x10 TMY. I panicked and placed a large order with Badger, when they said it was out of stock, I immediately placed a large order with B&H. The next thing I knew, both orders were shipped, so I ended up with a LOT of 8x10 TMY. I hadn't purchased any 8x10 film until this week. I'd prefer to have it in my freezer than depend on special orders.

With the chemicals, I am afraid that shipping restrictions will make it much harder for us to obtain the raw chemicals we need to mix Pyrocat or Amidol, so I figured how much I'd need to last me 30 years and purchased those in 2009. You can get some pretty good prices when you purchase 10 pounds of Amidol or 5 gallons of Propylene Glycol.

Anyone who contact prints using incandescent bulbs should purchase a few extra immediately. They are quickly disappearing.

As I said, I enjoy analog photography, and consider this a prefunding of my retirement. I don't want to be retired and find I can't afford the paper/film/chemistry I want/need.

Do I continue to purchase? I think I'm just about done, but if some Rochester Grade 2 Azo in 20x24 becomes available, I just might have to reconsider. :D I continue to purchase 2 rolls of 35mm film for every roll I shoot. I don't feel the need to stockpile 35mm, but just slowly build up my inventory. Of course, if Kodak stopped making 35mm film, I'd be placing a big order. I may participate in a 5x7 TMY group order, but I don't feel the need to purchase many more photographic consumables.

Thirty years ago, Fred Picker was telling us to buy a freezer and purchase as much as we could afford because it would never be better or cheaper than it was at that time. Fred was correct way back when, but the advice holds true today. Stock up because it will never be better, cheaper or more available than it is today!

I guess I would caution folks to be sure whatever paper they were purchasing would still be good after prolonged periods. Too many modern papers fog after a couple years.

[ic-racer]

I guess I am different than many of you. I really don't store any film or paper. I'm not a distributor or a camera store. I buy what I need as I need it. In my experience, the high speed films don't last that long, even when frozen, and paper (except good Lith paper) has not been an issue. I'd much rather use an un-opened package of film form my supplier than something that has been sitting for a few years in my freezer.

Total inventory of film as of today:
8 sheets Trix 8x10 loaded in holders ready to go.
18 sheets of 4x5 Ilford loaded in holders ready to go.

I did order some 8x10 T-max from Freestyle a few days ago, but who know if or when the order will get shipped.

[Michael Kadillak]

Hey, all I did was ask a question. I'm not sure why there's the need to get defensive. And, I do feel he was getting chippy with clauses like, " Your post has me more than a bit confused." and, "...you don't have to ask anyone to sell you anything."

I am only going on what you stated in a previous post where you publicly concluded that it was foolish for anyone to carry photographic materials inventory. I took no offense in your opinion that I could have viewed as critical of my methodology. You do whatever you want.

I do not know you and am not being "chippy" as you stated. I am just stating fact.

[Michael Kadillak]

In my experience, the high speed films don't last that long, even when frozen, and paper (except good Lith paper) has not been an issue. I'd much rather use an un-opened package of film form my supplier than something that has been sitting for a few years in my freezer.


High speed films don't last long even when frozen eh? Where did you get that information?

I have T Max 400 that is over six years eight years old in my freezer and it is as good as it was new. I use it regularly without hesitation. I have T Max 100 in my freezer that is over nine years old and is also crystal clear. How can that be possible?

Efke PL100 goes bad quickly in about a year past its expiration date. Efke 25 can be stored for many many years.

I printed on Azo from 1949 last week that had sparking whites, bold blacks and everything that is supposed to there in the middle.

Go figure.....

[John Kasaian]

It wasn't that long ago that Ilford filed for reorganization and Kodak shut down sheet film production while a new "dust free" facility was being built. Both Ilford and Kodak LF materials were hard if not impossible for some of us to get and IIRC the situation lasted for at least a few months.
That is one reason why I keep an inventory. Another reason is that an 8x10 film supply simply doesn't exist where I live. All my sheet film is mail ordered or purchased on line. It is a poverty to be caught without a suitable emulsion when a unique photographic opportunity presents its self.
Still another reason is that film emulsions change. If I spend a great deal of time "learning" an emulsion and the manufacturer decides to make it "new and improved" then it is back to the drawing board for me. This happened with TXP not that long ago either---when it happened I had no idea if my tried and true combination of TXP and HC-110 in dil. B would "fly." Kodak initially published data that seemed to indicate that the times I'd been using would be too short. Unfortunately I was in the middle of a portfolio and didn't have the time to play with film/developer/times stuff before the next shoot. If I had a stock of the "old" TXP I could have cruised nicely along until I had the time to properly scope out the new TXP, but that was not to be.

I think that at the very least I'd want one unopened box(preferably two or more) of whatever my favorite film currently is, and reorder as soon as I near the end of my opened box. I also avoid being totally dependent on any one emulsion, manufacturer or even retailer. That way any temporary supply problems are more of an inconvenience than a problem and if I get the urge to take a last minute "mental health day" I know that I'll have a supply of film on hand to deal with any photographic adventures which may come my way.
It's a redundancy thing.

[John Kasaian]

When AZO was discontinued I had already set aside my "stash" I really like the stuff and it keeps darned near forever. While I've migrated away from it as my "go to" I find that if the situation just calls for AZO I'm glad I have some set aside. At least having a supply in the freezer gives me the time to explore other options such as Lodima and Fomalux.

[Curt]

Can anyone give some guidelines on how to go about calculating a "lifetime" supply of any product; film, paper, chemicals?

This can be beneficial for those who intend to do it and not in the vain of hoarding but a realistic working strategy. I remember that comment from Fred Picker too, I received all the newsletters and still have them in the binders.

I just had my 59Th birthday and it's been on my mind again lately since the age of "modern" film photography is apparently coming to an end. I would have never guessed that this would happen in my life time but it looks like it's going faster than I thought.

It's the age old question; What's a lifetime supply of anything or what's a lifetime guarantee to someone who is over say 50 or 60? At my age a lifetime supply could be ten year or twenty five years. Realistic it would be based on physical health and lifestyle. How would someone select that magic number?

I find it incredible that I'm sitting here planning the end game of my life. What other factors are in play here, robbery, natural disasters like water and fire, keeping the freezer going to the end, is the inventory insured in any way. What will last in deep storage and what won't. There are a multitude of questions that come up. What if a person changes from silver enlarging to contact printing or from silver to an alternate process. Will the selection of materials dictate the process in the future and constrict the person to a process?

If I were to concentrate on only carbon transfer then I would only need a supply of say X Ray film and Dichromate. Or at the minimum a digital negative from a scan or source and Dichromate. That's fairly minimal but the requirements for carbon are just that, minimal. These are some of the questions I'm asking myself right now.

I appreciate the information from those who have shared their experiences with us. So in a way I'm on the list of those who are taking inventory too.

Curt

[John Bowen]

Curt,

I went about it something like this:

I am 52 and expect to be an active photographer for another 15-25 years. I also expect to expose more film, and spend more time in the darkroom once I become an empty-nester (in the next year or two).

I had 2 pounds of English Amidol on hand and purchased 10 additional pounds. That is enough for nearly 700 liters of Amidol. So, then I purchased enough of the other chemicals to make 700 liters of Amidol. I purchased enough Catechol to make up 40 liters of Pyrocat HD and then purchased the additional chemicals to make up 40 liters. When you shoot ULF sizes, you can go through some chemistry!

Being someone who likes to hedge his bets, I decided I needed a plan B in case some of my paper stash shows signs of fog down the road. I found these threads of help:
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/47681-old-paper-again.html
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/18844-old-paper.html

After reading these, I purchased chemistry to make 150 liters of Defender D-55.

Confession: My stash contains small lots of Velox, Opal, Convira, Haloid Industro, Portriga-Rapid, the original Brilliant, Medalist, Brovira and a few others. I expect to make good use of the Defender D-55.

KRST - I figured 2 gallons was enough.

I have concerns regarding both the availability of certain chemicals and the ability to have some chemicals shipped in a cost effective manner.

That takes care of the chemicals.

Film...based on "current" consumption I have enough 8x10 film to last 15 years. If consumption picks up as expected, then it may be more like 8-10 year supply. Again, under current consumption, my 7x17 stash will last over 15 years. I expect to be shooting a LOT more 7x17 in the future, so maybe this is less than 10 years. Currently, I shoot very little 5x7, but as I age, I expect to be shooting more 5x7 and 120/220.

One of my favorite subjects is moving water, and for LF, it requires a fast film. My methods include TMY and I would rather have a freezer full then have to go through testing the emulsion of the month. YMMV. My plan is to look for another film once my stock of 8x10 TMY gets down to 500 sheets. I hope, through group purchases, that day will be a long way off.

Azo - over the past 5 years, it has taken me just over a year to go through a 500 sheet box of Canadian Grade 2. I proof all my LF and ULF negatives on 8x10 Canadian Grade 2. I've tuned my negatives to print well on Canadian Grade 2, and I've adjusted my methods so that once I've made the best print possible on Canadian Grade 2, I can transfer that to Rochester Grade 2 or Grade 3 by applying a factor to my exposure times.

I remember being the high bidder on a 500 sheet box of Rochester Grade 2 from a photo store in Chicago. Something like $500 back in 2005. The shipment arrived with a note in the box "if you want any more, call me." I called and picked up two more 500 sheet boxes for "retail" ($325/box). I thought I'd won the lottery! Anywho, for the past 5 years, I've participated in almost every Ebay auction of Azo. I don't always win, but I almost always bid.

Lodima - motivated by fear here. I had lots of 8x10 Azo, but I needed larger paper to print 7x17 negatives. I was fearful, that Lodima might not be made beyond the initial run, so I ordered a bunch of 8x20 Lodima. I can always cut 8x20 down to 8x10 if need be. MAS needed to achieve a critical mass for this paper to be produced. I had the ability to make a significant purchase. It helped me achieve my goals, and it helped MAS achieve his. I have also informed MAS that he should not count on me for any future purchases. That's not to say I'll never buy Lodima again (I love the paper) but I don't see myself making another significant purchase. I think I have enough; time will tell.

Storage - I've split the Azo and Amidol inventories between my home and my office. I store the Azo in big Zip Lock bags. The film is all frozen in two locations. Since we don't have aging info on Lodima, I've decided to freeze that as well.

Robbery? Unless a reader of this forum robs me, ;) I doubt any common criminal would bother with film, photo paper or chemicals. Water? If my primary storage facility floods, you had better have an ark! Fire? A real concern, but what ya gonna do? That's why the stuff that can't be easily replaced is split between 2 locations.

Keep in mind that MAS is shooting film that expired in 1996. Yes, there is elevated fog levels, but Michael shared with me that he felt his recent Chicago negatives were the best negatives he ever made. The elevated FB+F isn't too big of a deal for contact printers.

I had a discussion about "stocking up" with MAS and he shared that his fear was the disappearance of Amidol and KRST. As far as I know, Amidol doesn't have many commercial applications.

I'm not aware of anything I've stocked up on that couldn't be converted back to cash if I decided to switch to an alternate process. Carbon and Platinum interest me, but I don't see myself having the time to coat my own until after I've left the workforce. And the trouble with that is I love what I do for a living.

The reason to stock up on Azo, is it has lasted. I gave a lot of thought as to what would last. The only thing I've stocked up on that I'm not sure about the keeping properties is Cachetol. Sandy King mentioned that it will change color from white to beige as it ages and looses potency. I'll keep an eye on my stash and replace if/when it changes color. I have the Defender 55D chemistry if the papers show fog.

I started this process almost 6 years ago. I believe, with the exception of film, that I'm about done with purchasing photography consumables. Of course, if you know of anyone who has some 20x24 Rochester Grade 2 Azo, have them contact me :D

Curt, if i haven't answered your questions please feel free to PM me and we can chat.

[Louis Pacilla]

(Curt)
"I just had my 59Th birthday and it's been on my mind again lately since the age of "modern" film photography is apparently coming to an end. I would have never guessed that this would happen in my life time but it looks like it's going faster than I thought."

I don't know if I,m missing something? Did Efke & Ilford make an announcement the same as Kodak?
From where I sit, the only company of the three to show they will throw in the towel soon is Kodak.

[John Bowen]

Louis,

I could be wrong, but it seems a reasonable assumption that if Kodak's film sales are off 20% and costs are up, that Ilford's experience is similar.

And let's face it, Agfa is gone, Kentford is gone, Ilford has already been reorganized once and some of the other players demonstrate less than ideal quality control. Ilford provides outstanding customer service, but they are privately held. They could be 3 minutes from bankrupty for all any of us knows.

Now, let's assume Ilford is still around in 25 years. Given commodity prices, what do you expect to pay for film in 2035? Hell, what do you expect to pay for Ilford film in 2012? I'm pretty sure it will be much more than you'll pay today, much more than inflation alone would indicate.

8x10 TMY is $5.20/sheet today. I'm still shooting stuff I paid $2.99/sheet for in 2007.
Lodima and Gallery are nearly $1.50/sheet today. I'm exposing Azo I paid $0.65/sheet for in 2005.

7x17 TMY hasn't been available since 2006. If/when Kodak makes it again it will cost at least $11/sheet. I'm shooting stuff I paid less than $6/sheet for in 2006.

I know I can sleep at night without worry about the materials I depend on for my hobby/craft. YMMV.

[John Kasaian]

I think a lot depends on your preferences. John Bowen is working within the confines of a specialized discipline requireing specialized materials. I OTOH am easily amused by a variety of materials---ortho, paper negatives, film cut from aerial rolls, perhaps some day I'll even make dry plates---as long as I've got something to load and play with I'll be happy. This allows me to take advantages of sales to build up my inventory(sales which, incidentally have become fewer and far between than in the past) When J and C went out of business and Photo Warehouse stopped cutting end rolls, those were sad days indeed!

[ic-racer]

High speed films don't last long even when frozen eh? Where did you get that information?.

My High speed film :D

Since this is LF forum I only listed LF film above, but all my 72 exp HP5 frozen since 1984 is pretty bad, not really usable. Base+fog around 0.7. My HP5 super 16 frozen from 2002 is up to 0.16.

I DO have 200ft 35mm microfilm (Copex clone?) with EI around 10-25 that is still pretty clear in the base after 12 years.

[Michael Kadillak]

My High speed film :D

Since this is LF forum I only listed LF film above, but all my 72 exp HP5 frozen since 1984 is pretty bad, not really usable. Base+fog around 0.7. My HP5 super 16 frozen from 2002 is up to 0.16.

I DO have 200ft 35mm microfilm (Copex clone?) with EI around 10-25 that is still pretty clear in the base after 12 years.

You picked nearly the worst film in HP5 to put in your freezer. Not that it can build FB+F density as a function of time (because to varying degrees they all do), but in the fact that HP5 has limited capabilities to build density at the top end of the film curve. When you only have so much density range to work with in the first place and you are eroding the films capabilities with the additional FB+F you are simply screwed.

Earlier John Bowen spoke of Michael Smiths 1990's vintage Super XX negatives that
printed marvelously. I actually assisted Michael print these negatives in his darkroom last year. One look at them and I commented that these were only good for watching an eclipse or as a welding shield. Yet they printed absolutely beautifully. The reason that this was possible is because Super XX is very unique in its capabilities of building negative density to the moon. Even when you add FB+F to this film as was the case here, the only adverse consequence is long to intensely long printing times.

Bottom line is that you have to use your head when you are considering inventory hedging of photographic film. The first criteria is recognizing that the Achilles Heel of analog photography is film. I have researched coating plates and I would rather NOT go there. Therefore putting quality film into frozen storage is the top priority of a prudent photographer. The next criteria is to make sure that you stock the optimal sheet film that is capable of a high density range necessary to accommodate the additional FB+F that we all know will come as a function of time.

The best films to stock IMHO are T Max 400, T Max 100, Tri X 320 and as a low ASA film, Efke 25. The lower the ASA, the lower the film susceptibility is to naturally occurring gamma radiation. FP4 could be stocked but I would not expect it to last indefinitely. The only condition I would put HP5, PL100 or some of the Arista films into frozen storage is if I could be assured that I would consume this film in less than a year to 18 months.

Cheers!

[Cor]

Efke PL100 goes bad quickly in about a year past its expiration date. Efke 25 can be stored for many many years.


Micheal, interesting comment on EFKE PL100, you mean it went bad even when frozen at -20 degC..

I have unsuccesfully tried to get MACO 100 working(aka EFKE PL100) which was a gift (frooze it right away) , it was close to it's expiry date.

I never could get a decent Dmax, and there is always a high B+F.

Best,

Cor

[Michael Kadillak]

Micheal, interesting comment on EFKE PL100, you mean it went bad even when frozen at -20 degC..

I have unsuccesfully tried to get MACO 100 working(aka EFKE PL100) which was a gift (frooze it right away) , it was close to it's expiry date.

I never could get a decent Dmax, and there is always a high B+F.

Best,

Cor

That is my personal experience with PL100.

I have recently participated in some Efke/Adox special orders involving 8x20 and another that is on its way in 11x14. The first thing I always do when I receive this film is to validate an initial film quality/condition by making a negative or two from the new batch. That way I know if there was any shipping x ray's that may have been induced to the order along the way or if there are any obvious manufacturing defects or issues that are obvious so I can do something about it. I feel it is prudent to assume nothing with shipped film.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Well, I've been lucky I guess in that I never got into the Kodak films. Maybe it was the cost issue from the start, don't know for sure. When I got into seriously building cameras and photographing on a regular basis the kids were in college. I stock piled as much as I could. I've settled on Efke-25 and x-ray film. Now shooting 8x10,11x14, 8x20 and soon 14x17 I need to start stock piling some film. I too have some of the 11x14 Efke coming from a group buy and have done so with the 8x20 ( thanks again for that one , Michael). I have to consider stock piling the Efke 25 in 8x20 as I don't want to try to cut down x-ray film. I did just buy 500 sheets of 14x17 x-ray film for get this with shipping $250.00. So I think that will be enough to last me a while. $.50 a sheet is not bad for 14x17. Going to stock pile the x-ray film and Efke-25 and I'll be good.


jim

[John Kasaian]

It seems germaine to the discussion on longevity, so I'll have to add that for a developer, Ansco 130 lasts a loooooong time! I have to thank john nanian for getting me hooked on the stuff:)

[redrockcoulee]

Most of my stockpiling has been due to been given other people's stash. I still have one box of Technical Pan 4X5 (50 sheets) and about a dozen rolls of 35mm of it plus enough Technidol to develop all of it. I was given a box of Azo and last year obtained two more boxes of 8X10 for the price of shipping and last year a box of 250 sheets of 8X10 Opal came thrown in along with an enlarger and trays when I bought a steel sink for $30. It seems OK but it is only slightly past its 1969 expiry date. I could get two bulk loads of Super XX 35mm that have been stored at room temperature for at least the last ten of their 46 year life however I do not shoot that much 35mm to even try it out.

My stocking of film, paper and chemicals is more in tune to the fact that I cannot get any of it locally so either trips to Cowtown or mail order and hence some stocking up. I do understand why others may stockpile years of supply.

I am more interested in using up the old I have because as it was remants from others it is a mixture and not a lot of anything. I do not know if I would stockpile a life time supply of any of the materials I currently use however if they all were to disappear soon I do know which ones I would want to acquire. Quickly approaching 60 a lifetime supply might not be that difficult to purchase and store.