Nude

[ustas]

How about to post y`ur Nude pictures?


http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20101206/oBv7ShiO.jpg (http://s2.ipicture.ru/)

Mari
Voigtlander Potrait Euryscope
13x18 Ilford FP4+

[Ash]

Nice shallow depth of field - makes me want to finish my 5x7 camera project!

[Emil Schildt]

well - I have dabbeled a little over the years with nudes...

Here's a bleached cyanotype.
18x24cm neg. Gandolfi 8x10 traditional - boyer 300mm lens.

http://www.apug.org/gallery1/files/4/8/8/7/cyanotypi.jpg

[Emil Schildt]

and another one.

this time 4x5"

http://www.apug.org/gallery1/files/4/8/8/7/4887cyansille-bl-smerteligt-.jpg

[ustas]

well - I have dabbeled a little over the years with nudes...


It easy can be seen from your work:)
Beautiful images!

[Harry V]

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~htiffa20/images/iminlove/iminlove1.jpg

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~htiffa20/images/iminlove/iminlove2.jpg

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~htiffa20/images/iminlove/iminlove3.jpg

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~htiffa20/images/iminlove/iminlove4.jpg

While not the typical approach to nudes, I figured someone might enjoy viewing these. All 4x5 Ilford iso 400.

[Allen in Montreal]

[IMG]......

While not the typical approach to nudes, I figured someone might enjoy viewing these. All 4x5 Ilford iso 400.

This reminds of a female friend in her last year of university. Her fine arts teacher asked her for a portfolio of self portrait nudes for her year end book.

Keep in mind that Miss S.W. was stunning and had a crazy sensual side.
Prof.....close to 50 yrs.....

She handed in 18 pix that showed, elbows, knuckles, ankles and ears!!
She passed, but he was pissed!
:) :)

[Bill Poole]

While not the typical approach to nudes, I figured someone might enjoy viewing these. All 4x5 Ilford iso 400.

I like these a lot, particularly the last one.

Bill

[Harry V]

This reminds of a female friend in her last year of university. Her fine arts teacher asked her for a portfolio of self portrait nudes for her year end book.

Keep in mind that Miss S.W. was stunning and had a crazy sensual side.
Prof.....close to 50 yrs.....

She handed in 18 pix that showed, elbows, knuckles, ankles and ears!!
She passed, but he was pissed!
:) :)

Thanks for sharing that story. Glad the teacher passed her in the end. I did these for a class as well; there are a total of ten images. Five were printed large and five presented underneath the large ones in film holders.

[Harry V]

Here is the fifth large one. (the one of the mouth was presented 4x5 in film holder)

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~htiffa20/images/iminlove/inimlove7.jpg


And the lot of the images up for viewing. This image was shot on my trusty Speed Graphic. The series was shot on a Cambo Monorail, and a Canham Field camera. All with Schneider 210mm f/5.6 Lens.

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~htiffa20/images/iminlove/iminlove8.jpg

... and to wrap it up.

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~htiffa20/images/iminlove/iminlove9.jpg

[ustas]

While not the typical approach to nudes, I figured someone might enjoy viewing these. All 4x5 Ilford iso 400.

The images are really intriquing! What lens did you use?

[Harry V]

a Schneide 210mm f5.6. I was actually wondering the same of yours, the depth of field is beautiful. A really nice image, I am enjoying finding others from the same shoot around the forum. It seems you really connected with the model.

[Vaughn]

Fallen Redwood, Nude
scanned silver gelatin print
cropped 4x5 neg

[JamesFromSydney]

ustas: What focal length is that on the 5x7 -- 300mm ?

harry v: Nice high tones, don't think I've seen nudes quite like that before (closest would be pt/pd work).

[Armin Seeholzer]

Ustas also in nude she looks good!

[cyrus]

Just out of curiosity, why are "nudes" almost always women? Is it because the photogs are almost always men?

[Emil Schildt]

Plasticca 280mm Full aperture.

13x18cm - Gandolfi 13x18

http://www.apug.org/gallery1/files/4/8/8/7/plasticca-zsophia-13x18.jpg

another Plasticca image.

18x24 cm paper negative. Full aperture. Gandolfi 8x10.

http://www.apug.org/gallery1/files/4/8/8/7/plasticca-11.jpg

[ustas]

Harry, Armin, thanks again for your comments!
Mari really is a peculiar-looking girl and it was very interesting to take some pictures of her.
As to lens: actually, I am not familiar with lenses at all. All I can say, that these portraits taken with Voigtlander Portrait Euryscope serie III № 5. It covers 8x10 with easy movements, but more suitable for 13x18 (I think).

Emil, great images! Thanks for sharing!


http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/20101207/5EA3awJS.jpg (http://s1.ipicture.ru/)

Same lens, same film, not the same Mari

[Peter De Smidt]

Fallen Redwood, Nude
scanned silver gelatin print
cropped 4x5 neg

It'd be interesting to see a good-sized print of this. The setting is terrific, as is the print color.

[Frank Petronio]

Maybe a Christmas card too?

[ustas]

Maybe a Christmas card too?

Great image!:)

[Pete Roody]

Maybe a Christmas card too?

I hope you had some hot coco for the model after the shoot. She deserves combat pay!

[EdWorkman]

Geez Frank I hope you had a roaring fire nearby OW!

[jp]

Maybe frank was actually shooting that from the hot tub.

[Vaughn]

It'd be interesting to see a good-sized print of this. The setting is terrific, as is the print color.

I printed it about 8x20 on Portriga Rapid, selenium toned. I have also printed it full-frame 16x20 (the cropped image is the bottom half of the neg -- the trees just keep going up.)

And I will have to find the original scan -- something happened and the image has way too much contrast.

[John Bowen]

I didn't know Frank shot stuff for CSI. My 1st thought was a corpse.

[VictoriaPerelet]

I do not remember if I posted those before

http://www.victoriasphoto.com/models/Curare/big/Type-55-5.jpg

http://www.victoriasphoto.com/models/AmyA/big/Type_55_negs1_3.jpg

[Ron Marshall]

I do not remember if I posted those before



I love the second image!!!

[sly]

I think Frank just likes to torture girls.

Vaughn - I love how the person is reduced to a little stick figure by the size of the trees.

Emil, always love your work.

[ImSoNegative]

Fallen Redwood, Nude
scanned silver gelatin print
cropped 4x5 neg

wow, when i first saw the image i coudnt see the person, then i went back and looked again, dang those trees are huge, great image btw.

[Vaughn]

Vaughn - I love how the person is reduced to a little stick figure by the size of the trees...

And sometimes, not so stick-like. (Though I will try to find another "stick figure" image of this model -- she made the mistake of telling me she was a rock climber!)

Nude, Redwood Trunk
Scanned 5x7 carbon print

[Dave Aharonian]

I've been known to shoot the occasional nude.....

[Vaughn]

Nice one, Dave. Great location, too -- and I like the way you seemed to have used the wind to soften the background.

[Darin Boville]

What are all these chicks with great hair doing running around in the woods? Did you use one of these auto-sensing triggers like the top wildlife photogs do?

--Darin

[Harry V]

Dave, I cannot stop looking at your amazing picture.

[gary892]

Dave, you have a stunning photograph.
Excellent work.

Gary

[Brian Bullen]

Dave, holy canoli!!!! Amazing!!!

[Peter De Smidt]

Great photo, Dave!

[David Aimone]

Wow, Dave. That's all I can say. What a combo!

[Harley Goldman]

Dave, great image!!! Beautifully done!

[spkennedy3000]

Love that shot by Dave, but I also really like that one by Vaughn, in fact I thought at first they might have been by the same person!

[sly]

Another amazing wood-nymph Dave. I don't remeber seeing that one when I looked at your web-site. Is it new?

[Andrew ren]

I've been known to shoot the occasional nude.....

This is very nice, Dave!

Andrew

[bvaughn4]

Awesome Dave! What a location and beautifully done. My humble contribution: Zone Vi 4x5, Caltar 215, Ilford FP4.



http://bpartstudio.com/webimages/sawhorse2.jpg

[Peter De Smidt]

bvaugh4, nicely done! The hue suits the image well.

[Dave Aharonian]

Thanks for the kind words - they are much appreciated!!

I'm working through my backlog of sheet film from the summer. Here's another one shot in the Hoh Valley of Olympic National Park with Stephanie-Anne - a truly exceptional model.

[Brian Sims]

Part of a project in the Olympic Rainforest. Finding great locations was easy. Mosquito control was difficult. The model was an advanced Aikido student and had amazing concentration despite the bugs.

48221

48222

48220

[Frank Petronio]

I don't usually like the genre but you guys, especially David's body of work, do it so well... it really takes off from Wynn Bullock goes on fast-forward. Kudos.

As for myself, I associate nakedness with sexuality so most of my stuff isn't so pretty. I don't even like it, because deep down, I am a prude. I do it because I can, I want to challenge myself and make everyone uncomfortable and aware of it... but I did do a few prudy ones when I was starting out, in order to understand how to approach it. The first one is one of those shots, I would never show it in my portfolio anymore because it is just of a pretty girl and nothing more... it's Tiana Hunter, a popular art nude model who travels the world posing for "artistes". She already has a thousand shots like this, from a thousand photographers - nothing special with me, but it is pretty.

The others get creepier... the second is of Betcee May, a genuine Penthouse Pet, in a hooker motel in LA. Third is of Cat, one of the first Suicide Girls, it's the coldest, creepiest thing ever, makes my skin crawl. And the last is the infamous Meagan Sample, she had me do her first naked shot. Obviously she's done a few hundred since and if you see her now she makes a good cautionary tale for your daughters.

I'm glad I made myself do these, I probably don't have to do anymore. You learn a lot by pushing your boundaries and finding your limits. Oh and I really like blowing a hole in all the happy bullshit about the art and beauty of the nude female body coming from the typical middle-aged dweeb typing one-handed ;-)

If you find that you want to try naked woman photography, I recommend that you hire a professional like Tiana or Betcee and pay them well. They are the best teachers actually, very smart and saavy women. Cat got out of it and Meagan is busted.

[ustas]

http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/20101210/TFQUfd60.jpg (http://s1.ipicture.ru/)

Meri
Voigtlander PE
13x18 Ilford Delta 100

[Brian Sims]

Frank says, "Oh and I really like blowing a hole in all the happy bullshit about the art and beauty of the nude female body coming from the typical middle-aged dweeb typing one-handed ;-)"

Frank, How does your work blow a hole in anything? That's like saying, "I like how my gritty urban landscape work really blows a hole in that happy bullshit about the art and beauty of natural landscapes." I admire your work, and have always felt it was more closely aligned with portraiture than classic nudes. You have always reinforced this with your descriptions of your models....they are real people you mostly respect and you have shared your observations about their personalities and their motivations for modeling for you. Your work seems to mess with culture and social values. Classic nudes (for example David's fine work) play with tone, texture and form. It is more of a pure sensory exploration that is even better the more the viewer can suspend social attitudes about nudity. I don't think your work blows anything away (unless it is some "happy bullshit" in your own mind) any more than classic nudes are a threat to your treatment of sexuality and personality.

[rdenney]

Frank, How does your work blow a hole in anything? That's like saying, "I like how my gritty urban landscape work really blows a hole in that happy bullshit about the art and beauty of natural landscapes."

If we think we objectify landscape excessively, then we are really missing how much we objectify nude subjects. Harry's photos are beautiful, but who are they? They could have been photos of a marble statue (a nicely done marble statue, I will admit).

Gritty urban scenes are not the proper analog. More appropriate would be beautiful natural scenes that still force you to reckon with some dominating force unconcerned with your well-being, rather than passively receiving the beauty without that sense of directed aggressive personality. And Frank's nudes do it without the dominatrix cliche, which is to me less compellingly disturbing and more just goofy. I find Frank's photos disturbing and also compelling.

Rick "who studied life drawing in college but could never relate to the models as people" Denney

[Ash]

Brian. I don't necessarily think Frank blows a hole in anything, but if that's how he phrases it let him be. His work takes a different viewpoint to so much 'nude' photography.

Essentially there's "the nude" and there's everything else. "the nude" is a concept artists or would-be artists use to disguise an image of nudity because secretly they are aroused by the body but hide it behind a veil of intellect. I quite like a lot of "nude photography" or "art nude" mainly because I enjoy looking at the human form, potentially it may arouse me. As it would anyone else, whether they admit it or no.

The "everything else" would encompass work as far spread as Nan Goldin's, Sally Mann's, Larry Clark's, to Frank's. Goldin was surrounded by it, Mann exploited it in her family, Frank is more like Clark - taking what is already there, but making an image that you would want to look at.

There's a book called "Pornography and the Law" initially published around 1958, edited and re-released in the 60's. The authors who are psychologists coin, outline, define, and provide examples of what they call "Erotic Realism". Basically, the everyday sexualised imagery, matter of fact.

Larry Clark's images of kids mutual masturbating are considered 'art' by some, 'erotic realism' by others. If Frank published an image of his models petting or worse it is 'pornography' or 'obscene', regardless of whether it is contrived or documentary. That's the problem - his current published work is an editorial form of erotic realism - it borrows from matter of fact sources, but makes it nicer to look at.

There's no way of comparing landscapes or architectural images to this kind of argument, unless you draw on semiotics and blatant phallic imagery, or metaphors.

[al olson]

This is Michele, photographed by Technika IV using Efke 820 IR.

She told me the next day that she wanted workman's comp since she had sunburned her boobs. I told her that the next time I would apply the sunblock so that I could be sure it was done right.

[al olson]

Another one, Rafael. Technika IV on Portra 160 NC, cropped slightly.

[Brian Sims]

Ash, "Brian. I don't necessarily think Frank blows a hole in anything, but if that's how he phrases it let him be."

I don't think Frank posts anything on this forum so that we will "let him be." I think Frank was trying to provoke a conversation. And I saw the thread dying out...so I thought I'd toss out a counterpoint. As I said in my earlier post, I admire Frank's work. If I lived in Rochester, I'd invite him over for scotch.

[Peter De Smidt]

But maybe a discussion would be better in a different thread?

[Brian Sims]

Geeze...I'm sorry. I thought this forum was for photographs and a discussion about photography. You guys crack me up sometimes...

[Frank Petronio]

Eh whatever, I just try to figure it out and rationalize it as I go along. I remember 6 or 7 years ago when I was totally against all of this, thought Jock Sturges was a criminal, etc. and now I am myself ;-) I think it's good to push yourself into uncomfortable territory, wether it's sex or politics or teaching.

Or posting rather quick and off-the-cuff on a casual forum where I'm known for being a bit of an asshole and bullshitter (sometimes).

But I still hold out the creepiest stuff is the photos of hot naked girls masquerading in a sort of a gauzy Maxfield Parrish guise to make it socially acceptable to hang in the living room.

I.E. I wouldn't have a scotch with Robert Farber.

But it would be pretty interesting to photograph Robert Farber.

[mdm]

The motivation behind a nude is precisely the same as the motivation behind pornography and all photography, sculpture, painting etc. To objectify.

In the very long run only the aesthetic of the image matters. But great photographers use their craft as a form of self expression and to explore their boundaries. So in the end it is not always clear what is being objectivised. The emotional and aesthetic sensibility of the photographer, the thing in the picture, or the assumptions and preconceptions of the viewer.

Although Frank was clearly a participant in the nudes he has presented, his approach seems very journalistic. Others seem to attempt purely to make a beautiful photograph. Many miss the mark, but good on you for trying.

[jb7]

The motivation behind a nude is precisely the same as the motivation behind pornography and all photography, sculpture, painting etc. To objectify.




Is that really the case?

While it might be true for the majority of pictures, I tend to see Frank's pictures as portraits that attempt to get get below the surface, to excavate-
Perhaps I'm wrong, and Frank's motivation is simply to make a better object...
Of course, the reaction will be different in different viewers-

I'm not sure about the "etc.", it seems as if you're saying that the motivation for all art is to make objects? Or turn the subjects into objects?
I'm not sure I understand, or agree-



Although Frank was clearly a participant in the nudes he has presented, his approach seems very journalistic.

Yes, but journalism of the Gonzo variety doesn't preclude participation ...

[Ash]

jb7, you missed the trick! Your response/question is essentially what David continued in his second paragraph!

To objectify is to make something into a commodity of sorts, to be discussed or viewed, or bought and sold.

As David said:


So in the end it is not always clear what is being objectivised. The emotional and aesthetic sensibility of the photographer, the thing in the picture, or the assumptions and preconceptions of the viewer.

[Aurélien87]

My contribution

http://www.labo-argentique.com/boutique/Fichiers/Photos/Modeles/KatiaFiljak/Untitled_Panorama1.jpg

Made with my old toyo 45, fujinon 250 SF, delta 100/fx39 , and printed on foma 131 with a gold/selenium toning.

[jb7]

Ash, it's a loaded word to use in the context discussed here-
although your definition covers some of it-

It could imply degradation or debasement too, depending on, as David mentioned, the assumptions and preconceptions of the viewer-
so I don't think that one definition can catch all...

[Emil Schildt]

I notice that the majority of the nudes submitted here are outdoors nudes.
I find that very difficult - I am more comfortable in a studio...

But there are exceptions...

This one was not planned. I wanted to make some still lifes in my garden - my girlfriend got jealoux, and wanted to be in the photo...

hence this..

Made as a Bromoil print

Makiflex 9x9cm neg.

http://www.apug.org/gallery1/files/4/8/8/7/stine-i-haven.jpg

[arca andy]

The title of thread is nude and therefore thats what we show but why are we only seeing female nudes does nobody out there take photos of male nudes?

[Emil Schildt]

The title of thread is nude and therefore thats what we show but why are we only seeing female nudes does nobody out there take photos of male nudes?

It happens - but it is very, very difficult.....

[Frank Petronio]

I think objectifying is happening more when the model's gaze is distant or hidden, or we focus on "parts". But using the word objectifying is also art school code for applying feminist theory to art criticism. Do we really want to get into an endless thread with big words? Can't we keep it to a Sixth Grade reading level for clarity? I wish all art critics could ;-)

I don't see how the male form is any less beautiful than the female form? That most straight male photographers shoot young females (and most gay male photographers shoot young males) exposes that there is more than just an appreciation of form and beauty involved.

When I visited Sanders McNew, a photographer known for photographing female nudes, I volunteered to pose nude for my portrait. "Oh no!" "The men remain clothed...."

There are a lot of male nude photos out there, but I bet some of the members who shoot them are hesitant to post here because there would probably be some snide comments. I'm enough of a wiseass that I'd probably try to say something clever myself ;-/ They'd have to be thick skinned.

[eddie]

When I visited Sanders McNew, a photographer known for photographing female nudes, I volunteered to pose nude for my portrait. "Oh no!" "The men remain clothed...."


i will do it frank......i know i have my magnifying lens around here somewhere.....:p

[arca andy]

I guess what I mean is that if you are going to photograph nudes, of either gender, then the photos have to mean something. Yes its great to see young women with no clothes on but there has to be something more to the photograph that just that.
That why I think Frank's photos are fantastic; nudes with a message?...But please your clothes on Frank

[matthew blais]

Posted this whole series in an older portrait thread, but what the heck...I like this one.
Montana de Oro State Park, 4x5, 300m

[Ash]

Ah! Now I can contribute an old photo... this is a couple years old now...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/img407_sm.jpg

Handheld on the Razzle 5x4 back when I owned and used it.

[Frank Petronio]

Ha I saw a thread on BME about people getting their anus pierced. Even those weirdos thought it was wrong, in terms of ever healing and not getting infected and killing you. Yet lots of people have done it.

[Ash]

did yours heal alright frank? :P

[jb7]

I wonder what's so bad that he has to hide it under his socks?
Still, I suppose you have to leave something up to the imagination...

[Ash]

He wouldn't take them off.....

[Frank Petronio]

Every May 1st I tie a rope on it and swing around the Maypole, Ash.

[mandoman7]

If the soapbox is vacant I'll seize the opportunity...

Nudes, like celebrity portraits or grand vistas, often have the same shortcoming where the photographer tends to lean on the impact of the subject and lets the issue of craft slide.

The problem of knowing just what we are trying to say and finding what might really be our personal statement is enough of a challenge that it seems safer to go with a subject & treatment that we know the viewer will be interested in for sure. It seems as if the girl is attractive and scenery is interesting, then that's about all that's needed for a lot of shooters.

Mimicking the behavior of a creative person doesn't make you a creative person, however, despite huge media onslaughts to the contrary. Nothing is truly either/or, though, and fairly often something that starts as mimicry can evolve into a singular statement that has a life of its own, so... whatever.

One thing I admire about Frank, other than his amusing posts, is that fact that you know his work when you see it, and it has something of who he is contained within. A way of shooting we can all learn from.

[CarstenW]

He wouldn't take them off.....

Ah, please, no self-portraits in here!

:)

I guess what he wanted to hide is already sticking out...

Arca Andy, why not post your own?

[Jay Decker]

Think we are missing the deeper questions here... imagine what how the TSA would clear him through airport security this holiday season.

[arca andy]

Arca Andy, why not post your own?[/QUOTE]

Sorry folks I may talk an equal nude photo rights argument but I fall into that camp that only has photographed women nude...so attached is my Missis one month pregnant with our son Mac...The idea was too do a series of shots showing the change in a woman's body throughout pregnancy. However the whole pregnant, sorting out our life, before the birth thing rather got in the way of the photography.
That was ten years ago and I haven't shot another nude since then.

[Frank Petronio]

Andy, I'm amazed that a headless image it still is a portrait, it's a really great image.

Here's a few odd old ones of Cat.

[Frank Petronio]

Pistol, Sash, and Meagan.

I guess I have a lot more that are only semi-naked, topless, or smaller-format. I only use the one of Pistol and and Cat against the jungle wallpaper these days.

[Vaughn]

Another Redwood landscape with a nude.

Scanned silver gelatin print -- not well done.

[Tri Tran]

Posted this whole series in an older portrait thread, but what the heck...I like this one.
Montana de Oro State Park, 4x5, 300m

Hi Mat,
Very nice composition, love it. It's genuine!

[JMB]

The title of thread is nude and therefore thats what we show but why are we only seeing female nudes does nobody out there take photos of male nudes?


Of course not.

[kev curry]

He wouldn't take them off.....

Maybe its because his feet are fleshy shrines dedicated to Nazism....?

[ustas]

http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/20101213/5os3JNoh.jpg (http://s1.ipicture.ru/)

Sofi
13x18 Ilford FP4+
Graf-Variable f5.6 on sharp

[David Hedley]

Sofi
13x18 Ilford FP4+
Graf-Variable f5.6 on sharp

Reminds me of Fonssagrives - lovely photograph.

[Hugo Zhang]

ustas,

That is very lovely and classic!

Hugo

[Gary L. Quay]

Here's my contribution, and my 2 cents:
First the contribution. I don't know if I'm breaking any rules here, but I took my CS4 edition of Photoshop out for a spin on this one, and created an image that is heavily edited. I liked the idea of nature and the nude, but just throwing a nude into nature seems highly contrived. I'm not saying that I won't do it, because I never rule anything out. I think that nudes should be in places where they would normally be nude in, and in poses that you would find them in, albeit altered to make the compression caused by the lens to convey the naturalness of the pose. These are personal ascetics, and not meant cast dispersions on anyone else.

Moksha in Branches
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4394939325_e2ac220509_z.jpg

Camera: Calumet C-1 8x10 (built in the early 1950s).
Lens: 13" Cooke Series II Portrait lens (Made in 1906)
Film: Kodak Portra 160VC.
Scanned on a Epson Perfection 4870 Photo and edited in Phootshop CS4 Extended.

Now, my 2 cents:
The discussion of whether photographing nude women is art or base instincts masquerading as art seems moot. Even if it is a masquerade, what's wrong with it? People are sexual by their nature. To the average male who produces an average amount of testosterone, the naked female form is really what life is about. We've been putting women onto pedestals and admiring them since cavemen drew them on walls with burnt sticks. Allowing ourselves to see the beauty in the human form is a healthy thing, and suppression of it causes more problems than accepting it. The Europeans seem to understand this better than us Americans: place a taboo on anything, and you get unbalanced responses to it. This is where pornography comes from, as well as some things that most of don't like to think of.

I haven't done much work with nude models to this point. But what surprised me during the shoots was that I was so concerned with the shot and with all of the technical stuff involved with shooting LF in the studio with a live model, that I really didn't have the leftover brain cells to devote to being aroused by the model. I also think it would be unprofessional to allow that to happen.

--Gary

[jp]

Here's my contribution, and my 2 cents:
First the contribution. I don't know if I'm breaking any rules here, but I took my CS4 edition of Photoshop out for a spin on this one, and created an image that is heavily edited. I liked the idea of nature and the nude, but just throwing a nude into nature seems highly contrived. I'm not saying that I won't do it, because I never rule anything out. I think that nudes should be in places where they would normally be nude in, and in poses that you would find them in, albeit altered to make the compression caused by the lens to convey the naturalness of the pose. These are personal ascetics, and not meant cast dispersions on anyone else.

Now, my 2 cents:
The discussion of whether photographing nude women is art or base instincts masquerading as art seems moot. Even it is a masquerade, what's wrong with it? People are sexual by their nature.
--Gary

Nice image, thanks for contributing.

A nude body in nature while in practice might be contrived, but perhaps less than other settings where the nude setting is surely contrived. You've avoided this skillfully by using a composite to subtract that context and replace it with other art.

A child doesn't feel contrived running around outdoors with no clothes, it's pure freedom. Somehow, we've departed from that as we age. If you have spent time outdoors in nature with no clothes (in comfortable nonsexual situations even briefly like changing or washing outdoors when camping not at a camp site) contrived doesn't describe things; you are quickly aware that there is nothing between you and nature. It's more real than words easily describe. That close connection to nature artfully portrayed elevates and separate nature nudes from simple exhibitionism. (Artist skills do this too, but I consider that a separate factor) That 100% connection to nature has vicarious benefit to viewers of the image who yearn to be someplace different perhaps for a simple beautiful place like in the photo.

No doubt, many nudes have a successful sexual component, and perhaps thats a major part of why we prefer female nudes. However, even in a non-sexual sense, I think womens bodies just plain look better. Sort of like how male birds look better, female humans look better.

[Darin Boville]

I also think it would be unprofessional to allow that to happen.
--Gary

Of course. But much more honest. Much more "what I thought and felt at the moment of exposure."

--Darin

[arca andy]

Andy, I'm amazed that a headless image it still is a portrait, it's a really great image.

Here's a few odd old ones of Cat.
Ooh I didn't think of that :confused:, but glad you like it.

[jp]

Andy, I'm amazed that a headless image it still is a portrait, it's a really great image.


I thought of William Mortensen's "Fragment", except better looking and less classical.

[Ash]

Maybe its because his feet are fleshy shrines dedicated to Nazism....?

Very close to the truth. He's a real gent, a kind and soft-spoken guy. It's amazing what poor choices people make (in life, and in opinions or intolerances).

[Gary Nylander]

Here is one of my contributions, taken on Vancouver Island in 2007. Camera was a Tachihara 4 x 5 with a 120 mm lens.

http://www.garynylander.com/nude_driftwood.jpg

[Maris Rusis]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/5160152548_8f0967e9d8_b.jpg
Contemplating Weston's Nudes


Gelatin-silver photograph on Agfa Classic MCC111 FB VC, image area 19.3cm X 24.4cm, from a Tmax100 4x5 negative exposed in a Tachihara 45GF camera fitted with a Schneider Super Angulon 121mm f8 lens. The book is open at a page with a reproduction of Edward Weston's photograph "Dancing Nude, 1927" featuring Bertha Wardell, a Los Angeles dancer.

[civich]

Gary,
That is a great shot! Any more from that location?
-Chris

[Frank_E]

Here is one of my contributions, taken on Vancouver Island in 2007. Camera was a Tachihara 4 x 5 with a 120 mm lens.

very nice Gary

[Scott Davis]

Well, since the request was made about male nudes...

Here are a few of mine - all done on a Century Master Studio Portrait camera, with a Seneca Portrait F5 whole plate lens, on whole plate film. All are gum bichromate, with some being gum-over-platinum.

[sly]

Maris - love the humour and naturalness of your photo.

[Gary Nylander]

Thanks, Frank.

Chris, yes a few more from that location, mostly a variation all with the same model.

[Lightbender]

Here is one of my contributions, taken on Vancouver Island in 2007. Camera was a Tachihara 4 x 5 with a 120 mm lens.



Gary, normally I cannot stand the "nude in nature" shot.. but I will take exception to this. I really like it.

[ustas]

http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20101215/TLmprWYT.jpg (http://s2.ipicture.ru/)

"Cats"
13x18 Ilford Delta 100
Dallmeyer 3D

[bobpin]

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu222/bobpin/Portrait/William01.jpg

Darlot 270mm Petzval lens on 8x10 camera, HP5+ processed with PMK pyro

[Scott Davis]

Bob- is that some kind of skin condition he has, or did he have a bad accident with a Wagner power painter?

[bobpin]

Bob- is that some kind of skin condition he has, or did he have a bad accident with a Wagner power painter?

That is some kind of skin condition. He is brave to come to my studio and asked me to take a series of portrait for him. He believes that taking photos of his body can be a process to accept himself.

:)

[Eric Brody]

This is a case of "bathing suit" nevus with many accessory nevi. The are highly likely to undergo malignant change and are most difficult to manage. Sad for the young man. Wonderful photograph.

[George Kara]

A profound and moving image Bobpin. Full of humanity. The subject grabs the frame and leaps through to the viewer. This image is unlike the constant pretty girl syndrome that most photographers (large format shutter clickers included) take as meaning nude. Don't get me wrong, I love beautiful women, its just the lack of any depth or attempt at any human emotion beyond mild lust is somewhat maddening. I am a figurative painter and focus very much on the unclothed figure. I can't understand why it is so difficult for camera users to make the leap into meaningful imagery. As a tool of communication the figure is closest to all of us. I have never quite figured out why photography is stunted and cliche driven when it comes to the nude.

[George Kara]

Seem to recall this was with a Cooke PS945.

[Steve M Hostetter]

Darlot 270mm Petzval lens on 8x10 camera, HP5+ processed with PMK pyro

Hello Bobby,,

awesome shot! just incredible

[sly]

George Kara - thank you for your sage comments. We're all nude under our clothes. We all have things to say. Even those who are lucky enough to be pretty as young women are going to get older - and their bodies might have alot more to say than "look at me, I'm desirable".

[George Kara]

George Kara - thank you for your sage comments. We're all nude under our clothes. We all have things to say. Even those who are lucky enough to be pretty as young women are going to get older - and their bodies might have alot more to say than "look at me, I'm desirable".

It isn't the subject that is the issue. Its the shutter clicker who treats young women as breasts, vagina's and pretty faces. Sticking a woman in a landscape makes about as much difference as choosing a different pair of lingerie for the model. Many of these women have lots to say but aren't valued for their emotional, spiritual or intellectual abilities. Its their looks that the shutter clicker is interested in - period.

It takes imagination to find the special, unique quality of a woman, expressed through the unclothed figure. While there are many technically competent people behind the lens, there are very very few with the gift of imagination or expressiveness.

[Peter De Smidt]

It takes imagination to find the special, unique quality of a woman, expressed through the unclothed figure.

How about an example George?

[George Kara]

How about an example George?

I am glad you asked Peter.

Image 1 is a hybrid photo/painting. The Tiepolo is a photo I took within the Getty museum. It is the platform on which the work was created. I was playing with the idea of depth of field as an influence on the digital painting. No tracing or special effects used.

Image 2 is a theme and variation drawing with subtle and not so subtle variations on the figure. When viewed live the work is suspended and constantly moving forcing the viewer to track the drawing.

Image 3 is the working drawing for the oil painting that follows. Initially the figure was intended to be somehow symbolic of a woman in the position of crucifiction while the her legs pierced the canvas. The actual painting moved away from this theme.

Image 4 is the still unfinished oil painting. Approx 6'x 4.5"

[George Kara]

These works are not particular outstanding compared to others I have created but rather related to the question of the use of the nude in imagery.

My medium happens to primarily be painting, yours most likely is photography. Whatever the medium you happen to use is not important. It is the content that is the essence of the artist.

I use LF for mostly reproduction or reference purposes, hence my interest in this fine forum.

George

[Peter De Smidt]

George,

Thank you for posting some examples, and I agree with you that variety in treatment is a desirable thing, many photographs of the nude are quite vulgar, and that not all nudes of women should just be about "breast's, vagina's and pretty faces." That said, I don't see how your paintings convey your model's "emotional, spiritual or intellectual abilities." That's not a bad thing, as I don't think doing so is what a nude study is about, whether a painting or a photograph. That sounds more like an ideal of a portrait than a nude. For me, the aim of an nude study meant as a piece of art is more universal than particular. It's not so much about the model as it is about conveying an aspect of femininity (or masculinity). Moreover, beauty may not be the only valuable artistic goal, but many people do still value it.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Here is one of mine.

Jim

[Emil Schildt]

photo?

Highly manipulated 18x24 neg.

I scratched some images and the first line of the Songs of Songs by Solomon (the bible)
just did - no particular reason...

http://www.apug.org/gallery1/files/4/8/8/7/songs-of-songs.jpg

and:

I found an old negative - painted with light. the negative was covered with light leaks so I decided to ruin it all together.....

then I made a print using liquid emulsion, with random brush strokes - bleached this out, and made a multi coloured bromoil..

http://www.apug.org/gallery1/files/4/8/8/7/marit-brom-mindre.jpg

[Emil Schildt]

...I also try to make sharp images...:-)

Anna with creme fraiche...

http://static.phosee.dk/pictures/00000113/864-creme-fraiche-sku-vaere-saa-godt-for-huden_800x600.jpg

[George Kara]

Gandolfi your works are consistently creative and interesting. Pushing the boundaries of the medium is always an enjoyable viewing experience.

[Mark Sawyer]

One of the great joys of this forum is seeing how people think and see in the most unexpected and wonderful ways. Your images are always an inspiration, Emil!

[ustas]

"Sofi again"
4x5 Fujifilm Acros 100
Graf-Variable f5.6 on sharp

[George Kara]

"Sofi again"
4x5 Fujifilm Acros 100
Graf-Variable f5.6 on sharp

What a lovely image you have created. Her hands are so large compared to the rest of her body. She would be the perfect model for the Renaissance artists.

[ustas]

Thank you George for the comment and looking!

[CharlesWest]

Ustas, please post smaller images. They take way too long to load.

[Emil Schildt]

Ustas, please post smaller images. They take way too long to load.

not here...

[falth j]

please post smaller images. They take way too long to load.


Personally, I do not see the need to be in a hurry...

a n t i c i p a t i o n is way better than fast...

[Armin Seeholzer]

Ustas do not post smaller ones I like them as large as possble, wonderfull shoot!

Cheers Armin

[Ash]

All images load fine on my end. Post as large as you feel comfortable with, but I'd say watermark your images to avoid people downloading them or redistributing them without crediting you...

[George Kara]

All images load fine on my end. Post as large as you feel comfortable with, but I'd say watermark your images to avoid people downloading them or redistributing them without crediting you...

Noooo. Pleeaasse. Watermarking will destroy them. The images are tiny here anyhow. I just hate it when people watermark their images. Its easy to prove who owns an image if its for financial considerations.

[Ash]

George, believe me - with the way the internet is, I'd happily put up with the 'hate' or discomfort of watermarked images if it means someone can't just rip them from sites and use as they please.

You'd be surprised where images end up.

[Wayne]

Personally, I do not see the need to be in a hurry...

a n t i c i p a t i o n is way better than fast...


I'm glad I stuck around for Ustas images to load as they are among the best here, but perhaps the OP is on dialup like me because I thought the same thing. Its not a matter of being in a hurry. I cant enjoy most of the picture posting threads because they just take way too long to load.

[mdm]

244kb dose'nt seem that large to me, but perhaps I missed something, ustas may have reduced their size before I looked.

[Nathan Potter]

Ustas images are 800 X 600 pixels; should load decently quickly even with dialup.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[bobpin]

"Sofi again"
4x5 Fujifilm Acros 100
Graf-Variable f5.6 on sharp[/CENTER]

Very beautiful shot, I prefer large image too!

[Wayne]

Ustas images are 800 X 600 pixels; should load decently quickly even with dialup.


I'm probably imagining the 30-60 second load time.

Not that I expect anyone to rotate around my dialup world, because i don't. But there are still people living in that world.

[eddie]

I'm probably imagining the 30-60 second load time.

Not that I expect anyone to rotate around my dialup world, because i don't. But there are still people living in that world.

time to change worlds.....:) i did.

even I have an i phone! went to NO mobile phone to an i phone....:) fun try it.

[ustas]

Well guys, I am really sorry, that you have such problem, as toooo looong downloading the images, but, I think, the small size picture isn`t the best way to see something.
Nevertheless I`ll try to experiment with resizing:)
Thanks for your comments, advices and looking!

[Wayne]

time to change worlds.....:) i did.

even I have an i phone! went to NO mobile phone to an i phone....:) fun try it.


I look forward to your monthly check so I can change worlds.

[Frank Petronio]

Two different studies rate dial-up connectivity at 4% and 17% in the USA. I guess that shows you that at least one of the studies is bad but I don't know which one. Maybe we should assume 10%?

Plus the mobile market is pretty slow in practice, it's tedious to surf non-mobile websites on a 3G phone.

So it's not that a 800x1000 pixel image is that bad a download, 50 to 150kb depending, but an entire thread of them quickly become several mb.

It might be nice if we all simply used the image upload feature rather than hotlinking.

And it would be even better if the site upgraded so that the images could enlarge during mouse-over ;-)

It would solve the NSFW issue nicer too, although people should have the sense not to click on the thread of nudes if they work in a sensitive workplace.

[eddie]

I look forward to your monthly check so I can change worlds.

Har Har Har !

If u think that you are experiencing slow times now wait till you see how long u will wait for checks from me.

[Frank Petronio]

In case you ever wondered what those suits are like?

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/500/quinn_double_4x5_sketchy_motel.jpg

Pretty disgusting to wear actually. Almost impossible to get into. And then you sweat.

It's hilarious to find someone who actually owns one. $40 on eBay, cheap Chinese made vinyl.

Luckily they didn't have my size but next Halloween, watch out!

[Morca]

Should go with American-made latex next time, maybe something a little more fashionable. ;)

[JamesFromSydney]

So that's sweat? I initially thought it was some kind of lube to get into the suit.

[Frank Petronio]

The real pros use powder i guess but this was more of a cheap knock-off she got from eBay. I think there are some folks who spend $$$ on this stuff and have more comfortable rubber, lol. Someone will probably die in one of these things.

[Cornelius]

Ustas, please post smaller images. They take way too long to load.

Not for me either.

[Cornelius]

In case you ever wondered what those suits are like?

Pretty disgusting to wear actually. Almost impossible to get into. And then you sweat.

It's hilarious to find someone who actually owns one. $40 on eBay, cheap Chinese made vinyl.

Luckily they didn't have my size but next Halloween, watch out!


Frank, is that her before and after the suit? And what's that on the ground? in the "after" shot? Do you have to shred your way out of it or what?

Great images as always by the way.

[Cornelius]

Noooo. Pleeaasse. Watermarking will destroy them. The images are tiny here anyhow. I just hate it when people watermark their images. Its easy to prove who owns an image if its for financial considerations.

I agree with George but worry about the theft too, in the end I don't post much of anything as a result. :(

[Cornelius]

Har Har Har !

If u think that you are experiencing slow times now wait till you see how long u will wait for checks from me.

:D LMAO Eddie

[ustas]

http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/20101226/TW77YvA7.jpg (http://s1.ipicture.ru/)

"In the Light"
13x18 Ilford delta 100
Dallmeyer 3D

[ustas]

http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/20101229/RmtFhHZ7.jpg (http://s1.ipicture.ru/)

"deep inside"
13x18 Svema 64
Pulligny landscape lens f16

[Ash]

Ustas I love your photos, but this one seems very weak. Did you rush to scan this? You've lost a lot of the tones and the contrast seems wrong. Usually your pictures have a wonderful gradient between light and dark.

[ustas]

Ok)
This is another try


http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20101229/1Z8aGT7t.jpg (http://s2.ipicture.ru/)

[George Kara]

"In the Light"
13x18 Ilford delta 100
Dallmeyer 3D

Lovely image and use of light. Very painterly.

[George Kara]

Darlot 270mm Petzval lens on 8x10 camera, HP5+ processed with PMK pyro

I was so taken with this image that I took the liberty of using it in an oil painting just completed. I know its not LF nonetheless derivative of this most powerful of images. I have named it "Superhero with nevus and accompanying nevi." The title is from the description of another poster who is obviously a retired Doc.

[mdm]

I was so taken with this image that I took the liberty of using it in an oil painting just completed. I know its not LF nonetheless derivative of this most powerful of images. I have named it "Superhero with nevus and accompanying nevi." The title is from the description of another poster who is obviously a retired Doc.

Clearly you are more of a plagiarist than an artist. One wonders if all of your paintings are stolen images and ideas with so little independant creative input.

[Frank Petronio]

Oh for Christchurch's sake....

[CarstenW]

Yup, that was just totally unnecessarily harsh, and potentially way off the mark. Hard to believe that people post stuff like that without knowing the recipient.

[Peter Mounier]

I was thinking the same thing as David, although didn't say anything because that's an issue that's rightfully between the painter and the photographer. It's a legitimate concern, and Frank's comment seems to be "Who cares? Don't be so petty."
Am I reading you correctly Frank? You don't respect intellectual property?

Peter

[Scott Walker]

Clearly you are more of a plagiarist than an artist. One wonders if all of your paintings are stolen images and ideas with so little independant creative input.

Your head is definitely stuck somewhere.......you should pull it out before permanent damage is done!

[Howard Tanger]

Lovely image and use of light. Very painterly.

Huh?

[Ash]

It's a contentious issue, however a previous remark I made about watermarking photos and providing them in a low resolution was met with "No!!". Can't seem to win here.

You can see it from both sides. Typically a painter is moved by something and paints it (standard practice). As far as it being plagiarism, I don't think so in this case. He has clearly stated where and how he got the image, and is paying homage.

If its your image you can complain, if it's not your image then why piss on someone else's fire? The internet is plagued with hiding behind a monitor and bitching about people knowing they'll never knock on your door and knock your teeth out. If it is of concern to anyone, then send a private message and sort it out.

Previously any issue with someone online has been swiftly dealt with using the PM's. Why publicly flog someone? I'm trying my best not to turn to stereotypes, political or regional slurs.

[mdm]

Your head is definitely stuck somewhere.......you should pull it out before permanent damage is done!

I am afraid it is too late.

Seriously though, how would you like your masterpiece to be brutalised.

[F-Liner]

Thank you, Ash.

[Frank Petronio]

I see it as George paying the photographer a compliment.

[Peter De Smidt]

I see it as George paying the photographer a compliment.

+1. Since the photographic print and the painting would never be confused for one another, what's the problem?

[Shadowtracker]

Back to the whole thought about art objectifying; My own approach to photography is to personalize things using photography as the means. I don't take nude photos, at least yet, though I have nothing against it.

I think the 'objectifying' can be something the artist intends a viewer to do, but I don't think that's always the case. Many photographers I know, want someone to be emotionally moved by the photograph; that's the opposite of objectifying.

Culturally, we are inundated with man made images thousands if not millions of times a day - as a result of that, I think many people do objectify images and art, no matter if they are nudes or not.

My own goal, is to bring something to the viewer they may not have otherwise noticed,felt, known, sensed or otherwise been moved by. I like photographing people, though not in studio settings right now. I like nature photography too, and there are other things I like to shoot. Personally, I like viewing nudes for a variety of reasons; all of them are sensual though not all are sexual. But that is true of other kinds of photography too.

There are images I objectify though too. I'm pretty sure everyone is guilty of it in some capacity or other, but I don't think that's the purpose of any branch of art - though I could be wrong about that. I have learned that when I'm taking photographs, or drawing, that I need to be objective in my observations; viewing any art can be done objectively too, and that can lead to finding relationships between parts of the image/frame/tone, etc. But I don't think that's it's purpose.

If I have stepped out of line here, I do apologize. I still have a lot to learn, but I have liked the images and discussion here so far.

[Peter Mounier]

He is brave to come to my studio and asked me to take a series of portrait for him. He believes that taking photos of his body can be a process to accept himself

The photographer had control over the image. That's the issue with copyrights. He may have promised the subject that his image wouldn't be sold or reproduced. Does the subject know that his image was to be reproduced? Would he have permitted it?


Peter

[Paul_C]

The issue with copyright is that it's up to the copyright owner to enforce, however they choose.

That, of course, never stops a bunch of armchair-lawyers on the internet from feigning outrage at any perceived slight that had nothing to do with them in the first place.


That's the issue with copyrights.

[George Kara]

Mdm is merely a troll and a simpleton. I was moved by the image. It is a tribute to the photographer and young man who posed. It takes a tremendous amount of courage for a young person to face such a disability and attempt to come to terms with it. I kind of think of him as a superhero.

I also take it as a compliment that someone - no matter how uneducated, would think of my work as brutal. :)

[Ash]

David (mdm), make sure you address each person so you know who is who. It sounded like you were attacking Scott, but Scott is only an observer/conversation-er like myself here.

Peter has a point. However that could be moot, knowing that the image has been published online. It's no longer a personal project, nor is it for the eyes of the two involved. It has taken on greater meaning (as much as to make us aware, and to make us argue).

+1 to what Paul says also.


Final anecdote. My series "Don't Change" follows a similar pattern of photographing someone with a serious illness and allowing the person to view themself. Charly's potentially fatal cancer has messed up her life in some respects, but at least she's alive. Anyway, it took months to convince her to undertake the project and agree to some of the shots. There are more shots like nudes that I never put online.

The punchline is, I told her where they'd end up. I told her I wanted to publish them in as many ways as possible, have them in exhibitions and so on. In two weeks time they'll be in a group show, and one of the images has been used for all the publicity.

If someone painted her, I'm sure she'd be flattered but a little weirded out.

[George Kara]

Embellishment and interpretation is common and accepted practice in any creative field. I have had my paintings used as a reference for photographic images as well.

Plagiarism as defined in the 1995 Random House Compact Unabridged Dictionary is the " use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work. "

Clearly the painting is not a close imitation of the photograph. Photography and painting are also vastly different languages. The pose and unique condition of the subject were the starting point. The color, texture and context are my variation on this profound theme of beauty, acceptance and mortality.

[mdm]

Mdm is merely a troll and a simpleton. I was moved by the image. It is a tribute to the photographer and young man who posed. It takes a tremendous amount of courage for a young person to face such a disability and attempt to come to terms with it. I kind of think of him as a superhero.

I also take it as a compliment that someone - no matter how uneducated, would think of my work as brutal. :)

If english was your first language, you would understand that my comment can be taken at least 3 ways:
-The sitters master piece is brutalised
-The excelent and courageous photograph has been brutalised by your masterful interpretation
-Your masterful interpretation has been brutalised
Your work is not brutal.

I may be rude and inconsiderate but it cant all be back slapping and high fives. A little dissonance is not only a very creative thing, but also highly entertaining. And in theese situations one learns a great deal about peoples motivation. I have no axe to grind.

On a forum such as this groupthink is an ever present danger.

I hope you will post many large format photographs in the years to come and I am shure you have a great deal to give, coming here as a painter. This is the Large Format Photography Forum.

I hope most of all that bobpin and others, will continue to post truly outstanding work without fear of it being stolen or misused. I am here to learn from them, large format photography is difficult. It is so hard to get a close portrait in focus, to get a complex plant form just so, to produce a print that feels right.

By the way, the link in your signature is broken for me, scaryink.com does not work.

Have a happy 2011.
David

PS Thanks Ash, gotta love the English.

[mdm]

The pose and unique condition of the subject were the starting point.

Exactly

The central image in your painting is a mirror image of bobpin's image. No hiding from that. You could have just flipped it in Photoshop and applied some sort of brutalising filter and there is your painting, save for a few indistinct brush strokes here and there.

I have not changed my opinion.

Lets say you like to paint nudes, instead of hiring a model or imagining a scene, you just rip off a Man Ray or an Edward Weston or a gandolfi, ustas or a bobpin. Lets say you sell your painting for $$$$$$$$$ to a hedgefund manager, or a pervert at a fleamarket. What does that make you? Lets say you give it to your friend, who sells it on ebay. What does that make you? Lets say you were just having a shot yourself and paint over the canvas, no worries. What if you asked permission first? Would it be given? This is a nude we are talking about. What if you gave it to the photographer or the sitter? Would they destroy it? What if you published your painting on the cover of Vouge? Is that the same as publishing it on a forum such as this, without permission?

What if I posed a model in exactly the same pose and made a photograph or painting? What if I posed the exact same model exactly as bobpin did and made a photograph, or a painting? Where is the line?

I still have not changed my opinion? Have you?

[Jim Jones]

The issue with copyright is that it's up to the copyright owner to enforce, however they choose. . . .

And the issue with shoplifting is for the shop owners to resolve, leaving the police free for traffic control and writing tickets.

[George Kara]

David

Your understanding of the legal and ethical rights surrounding the creative process are thin and brittle. May I suggest you spend ten minutes tapping away to research these issues?. There are countless examples of this discussion. Painters have borrowed or used photographic reference of others for their works since the dawn of photography.

This spans from JL Gerome through Francis Bacon, Thomas Eakins, Adolf Gottlieb and the list wonderfully expands and continues. In a recent exhibit of Gerome, the curator located many of the original very early photos and placed them next to the oil paintings. It was a fascinating move on the part of the organizers. The original paintings never carried attribution nor was it needed. There are books of the photographic references used by any one particular painter.

What is clear, is that your eyes need training. Clearly this is an oil painting - photoshop can never replicate the original thing. If you look at the figure, you will see every proportion is different from the photo. This is because it is hand drawn and not from a projection or digital manipulation.

The figure was inverted to bear a closer relationship to the secondary image which was drawn without reference.

BTW, I could absolutely use Man-Ray references anytime I want.

All artists through all mediums beg, borrow, steal and riff off one another. Its called influence and its what people do to one another.

Using cliches such as "groupthink" are insulting to this particular group. Most of the photographers here are highly skilled mature, and have their own well considered opinions styles and processes. There is little in the way of "cattle mentality."

[Peter Mounier]

I followed George's advise and researched this a little bit, and I found references that seem to contradict his position.

http://painting.about.com/cs/artistscopyright/f/copyrightfaq7.htm
http://painting.about.com/cs/artistscopyright/f/copyrightfaq5.htm
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#113

If you can provide references that seem to allow copying photographs for a derivative work without getting permission from the copyright owner, it might be helpful.

Peter

[PViapiano]

I'm not getting into this, but I do wonder why photographs from 6x17 cameras are removed by the moderators but a painting seems to be ok...

[Vaughn]

"I'm not getting into this...", but I'll give the hornet's nest a whack anyway.

LOL!

Vaughn

[Ash]

Google "Richard Prince" and look up how he steals images and reinvents them. Everything from his cowboy photos to recent works of other photographers have provoked the same discussion. Unfortunately he's been caught out a few times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/arts/design/06prin.html?_r=2&ref=arts&oref=slogin

As for Francis Bacon, I was under the assumption he took all his own photographs, or had friends take them for him. A year or two ago there was a huge retrospective in London cataloging his works and his influences, providing detailed scrapbooks of where he took his reference material.

Many artists paint directly onto the references.

David, the concept of the Auteur is convoluted and a minefield. On the surface it is easy to call something plagiarism where another would call it allusion or homage. Unfortunately you both will be going round in circles.


Final point I nearly forgot: almost none of Shakespeare's plays were his own. Most classical paintings were not painted by the names they are attributed to. Most history is not a true or fair account.

[Ash]

"I'm not getting into this...", but I'll give the hornet's nest a whack anyway.

LOL!

Vaughn

:D

[mandoman7]

Ownership of ideas in today's art world is decidedly up in the air. Many will borrow quite freely and think nothing of it. Getting upset often makes you the bad guy. The line in the sand, in my mind, gets drawn when money is made with a borrowed idea.

[Lachlan 717]

Can't we just get on with posting some more artistic boobs?

[Michael Wynd]

I agree Lachlan. Cut the bickering and just post photos. If I had access to a scanner, that's what I'd do myself. Let the photos speak for themselves.
Mike

[Emil Schildt]

Can't we just get on with posting some more artistic boobs?

ok then...

Painted with light. Pol 665.

"Friends"

http://photos.photosig.com/photos/30/10/1131030-2d89d4e081307d31.jpg

and "hommage":

http://photos.photosig.com/photos/68/83/1128368-112148f49ab75160.jpg

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[George Kara]

Final example of many famous paintings with their photographic reference and then I will remove all posts of mine - if I can figure out how.

http://www.fogonazos.es/2006/11/famous-painters-copied-photopraphs_06.html

[Mark Sawyer]

Wonderful work, Emil! Completely different from each other, and each exactly as it should be.

[Jeicob]

Happy new year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P23W02V6wo

We could make a 2011 challenge out of this

[ImSoNegative]

very interesting video. thanks for the link

[Thebes]

Shot these about 8 months ago for a calendar submission. The first one made it in.

These were 4x5 shot to be cropped square. FP4+ in PMK.

[Mark Paschke]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/liala_edited-1small.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/lialanudesmall3.jpg

she moved on the last one :(

[Dave Aharonian]

Okay, it looks like things have settled down here, so hopefully its safe to post again!

4x5 with 6" Darlot.

[Thebes]

4x5 Fp4+ in PMK with Super Graphic

Both the scans need work. The tree in the first is fully in the frame, but alas my wood stove likes to belch ash onto my film, and its winter so there's no rescanning until the propane heated darkroom is finished.

[Emil Schildt]

Okay, it looks like things have settled down here, so hopefully its safe to post again!

4x5 with 6" Darlot.

and this is a beautiful image! the swirling in the back is not too dominant, but I see it rather as turmoil in their lives... (too much? :) ).

The covering on their front is delicate.. and works for me.

[George Kara]

Okay, it looks like things have settled down here, so hopefully its safe to post again!

4x5 with 6" Darlot.

Well one thing is certain. This is my final post. I will no longer make any more comments or contributions - although I may occasionally lurk. A troll cut my head off and its no longer any fun to contribute.

[mikebarger]

George, I know it is hard to ignore those that look to cause trouble, but just forget it and continue to participate. You learn after some time that we indeed have a few (put what ever descriptive word you'd like here, I use narcissistic) individuals that like to blow their own horn by trying to be more of an authority than they are.

[falth j]

"Well one thing is certain,"

to quote a post above.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion...


but, "One thing for certain," the longer those opinions are, the more worthless they become...

[Thebes]

Strange, I had held off posting because of several of George's comments I had considered trolling. Not that he was the only one.

[DanK]

Well one thing is certain. This is my final post. I will no longer make any more comments or contributions - although I may occasionally lurk. A troll cut my head off and its no longer any fun to contribute.


Isn't this discussion finished ?

None of this would have occurred had the basic 'rules' been followed....

"Image Sharing & Discussion Post your own (large-format only) images for sharing and discussion."

Thanks,
Dan King

[Thebes]

Okay, it looks like things have settled down here, so hopefully its safe to post again!

4x5 with 6" Darlot.

I love your shadow and skin tones, and the swirl of the lens is beautiful.

[Gary L. Quay]

Moksha # 7
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5340239599_d697186986_z.jpg
Camera: Calumet 45N.
Lens: 90mm Nikkor.
Film: Kodak Portra 160NC

[David Aimone]

Nice, Gary! My brother is a painter and really likes her approach!

[Gary L. Quay]

Thanks! The model had fun doing it as well.

--Gary

[Thebes]

She doesn't normally paint nude?
I could see some of my painter friends doing that, it has a primal kind of look to it, and many of them have strange seeming ways of working.

[Nortega]

photo?
I found an old negative - painted with light. the negative was covered with light leaks so I decided to ruin it all together.....

then I made a print using liquid emulsion, with random brush strokes - bleached this out, and made a multi coloured bromoil..

Very cool Gandolfi! I'm really loving this piece! You've got me thinking about the Bromoil process again...

[Frank Petronio]

Nice Peter!

[Aurélien87]

Well, another one, with fur :)

http://www.labo-argentique.com/boutique/Fichiers/Photos/Modeles/RebeccaGrzesik/Untitled-1-2.jpg

This Fomapan 400 developped in Xtol and contact printed on the new Fomalux 111...

[Philippe Grunchec]

Coquin !

[Aurélien87]

Oui :)

C'est pour vous montrer la foma 400 et le fomalux :)

[Jim Noel]

"Sofi again"
4x5 Fujifilm Acros 100
Graf-Variable f5.6 on sharp

Ustas,
Beautiful model, well done. I particularly like her stance which presents a highly pleasing curve to her body.

Jim

[Tintype Bob]

4x5 Fp4+ in PMK with Super Graphic

Both the scans need work. The tree in the first is fully in the frame, but alas my wood stove likes to belch ash onto my film, and its winter so there's no rescanning until the propane heated darkroom is finished.

Wonderful location, how did you get her to pose and I hope you paid her a lot.

[Thebes]

I paid her nothing Bob, she's my wife. That series started because she wanted to be in a sex-blogger calender that was being done for charity, the one of her on the rocks with the falls behind was used. I had done some similar stuff back in college and I'm continuing the series. She's a little less happy with the series now that she has her shot, but I've haven't had her undress in the snow since, so I'm just bribing her with knitting supplies for the rest.

The location of the waterfall and the rock crevice is a private landholding thats open by permit, north of Taos, called El Salto Falls. Its not very well known, we would never have heard of it except for friends who live nearby.

[Tintype Bob]

Well it is wonderful work, it is also nice to have a wife that is so understanding and willing to work with you. I hope to see more of your work

[Gary L. Quay]

Jazz Age # 2 & 3

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5394034373_767300c92b_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5259/5396613797_f06d69aeca_z.jpg

My attempt to recreate glamor photography of the 1920s and 1930s. Model: Aspen Lyn.

Camera: Ansco Studio with Whole Plate Back.
Lens: 11" Voigtlander Enryscop Portrait Series 2.
Film: Ilford FP4+ developed in PMK Pyro.

[Marco Polo]

Bobpin,

You might want to tell your model with the skin condition that there's a lot of new treatments, including biologic drugs and light therapy, that can work wonders. Just need to find the right dermatologist. Nice portrait by the way.

[Tintype Bob]

Jazz Age # 2 & 3

My attempt to recreate glamor photography of the 1920s and 1930s. Model: Aspen Lyn.

Camera: Ansco Studio with Whole Plate Back.
Lens: 11" Voigtlander Enryscop Portrait Series 2.
Film: Ilford FP4+ developed in PMK Pyro.

Great shots, you have done well in recreating that 20s look

[ustas]

http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20110210/6ULB66uk.jpg (http://s2.ipicture.ru/)

"transgressions"

[Ash]

Great shot Anatoly. It would be even better had the sunlight been all the way up her face, to cut it in half rather than stopping under the eye.

[Thebes]

Love it, ustas, to me the light seems to create on abstracting effect which intensifies the apparent indifference of her gaze and cigarette.

[Armin Seeholzer]

She is wonderfull and the light is just perfect, congrats!

Cheers Armin

[DanK]

"transgressions"

The Lighting Is Perfect, Excellent Image...

Thanks,
Dan

[RPippin]

Great image, one of the best I've seen on this post. By the way, the light is great. It is what it is, great use of available light.

[Jim Jones]

This is the way nudes should be photographed. Thanks!

[bobpin]

Bobpin,

You might want to tell your model with the skin condition that there's a lot of new treatments, including biologic drugs and light therapy, that can work wonders. Just need to find the right dermatologist. Nice portrait by the way.

Hello Marco,

Every time I tell him about the new treatment methods (hearing from other friends), he told me that he has already had those info. So I think he is watching the new technology and knows more about himself than us.

Anyway, thank you for your kind concern. :)

b.

[moegl]

@bobpin : amazing picture! I think that he is strong rejecting the treatments. I feel whenever there is some sort of treatment that makes you a compromise between the "normal" and the "abnormal" you are never given the opportunity to accept who you are, how you look. it feels like from then on it's all about achieving perfection in some ways, and it's an everlasting road. (him coming to you to take his picture feels like he is beginning to accept, or at least want to accept, his disease.)

maybe it isn't a fair comparison, but a couple of years ago my IBS was really bad and I felt it was limiting my life to the degree where nothing but my health was on my mind. doctors tried all these different methods and treatments, and I was always hoping to get back to my normal state, and because they always had a new idea how to get me better my hope was always in that. it wasn't until I let go, when I finally accepted my illness, that I became better. when I didn't see it as a limitation anymore, when I learned to live with it and listen to my body.

the western medicine is like that, the doctors even keep cancer patients in hopes of a cure until their last breath, instead of giving them a chance to prepare themselves for the inevitable. there's no chance of acceptance.

sorry for posting this in a Nude gallery. haha, probably not the place to take this discussion. I'll take some nudes and post them here someday to compensate for the turn-off.

many gorgeous pictures here. as an amateur using this forum to learn and be inspired, what is your approach when you see someone you want to do a nude portrait of? I see how a wife or paying a professional model would be apparent alternatives, but I guess some of you must portray some strangers too, no?

[Tintype Bob]

Great shot, I like the lighting, great choice of background

[Gary L. Quay]

Jazz Age # 4
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5300/5423087537_3f91ee0a21_z.jpg

This is a scan from an 8x10 negative. My scanner won't cover the entire area, so the image is slightly cropped. I intend to replace this with a scan of a contact print soon.

Camera: Calumet C-1.
Lens: 13" Cooke Series II Portrait lens.
Film: Ilford HP5+ developed in Kodak Xtol.

[Tintype Bob]

I really like these shots, that twenties look is great

[GeoffreyO]

My first serious foray into large format nudes:

51428

Rosemary
December 2010
Speed Graphic w/ no-name 6" f/4 petzval
Shanghai GP3 in X-Tol
Epson V700 scanner

[lenser]

Geoffrey....exquisite!!!

[GeoffreyO]

Geoffrey....exquisite!!!

Thanks so much! We battled heat, humidity, mud, HUGE spiders, flies, mosquitoes and locusts to reach the location, so you can imagine how pleased I am to produce an acceptable photograph :)

[Roger Cole]

Geoffrey....exquisite!!!

Agree - very good!

[Ash]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/strut57/Untitled-7amanray.jpg

Le Violon d'Ingres par Man Ray



Had a play around this evening after developing a few more shots from the 5x7.
Such a cliche but couldn't resist...


Modified Goerz Anschütz 5x7
Goerz Doppel-Anastigmat 180/6.8
1/60 f/11 single flash through white brolly

[Frank Petronio]

It's a classy cliche. Just warp them a tad and do "multiply" at 67% to make them look like tattoos, or leave them black to be surrealist.

[Ash]

I took the f's straight off a copy of Man Ray's. It looks like he had them dense black; apparently he painted them onto a print and re-photographed it. Maybe I'll contact print this and ink/paint them on sometime

[Armin Seeholzer]

Le Violon d'Ingres par Man Ray

I prefer the Cello ones, which I think he used!;--)))

[Jay DeFehr]

I think the cliche' works better if the torso is photographed from an angle which recalls the shape of a cello. In this instance, the gimmick relies on the reader to make the connection based on another, well known photograph, and not on a mental comparison of the two shapes (torso and cello). I think the direct gaze of the model further distracts from the intended allusion.

[Ash]

Armin... blame the French and their play on words.
Jay... I'd prefer to abstract from something than straight off copy it. The connection is in the name rather than a direct reproduction of the image. It was just a bit of fun anyway, hardly a serious photo.

[Ash]

Since I can't edit my post I thought I'd actually copy and paste the text from GETTY:


Man Ray was an admirer of the paintings of Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres and made a series of photographs, inspired by Ingres's languorous nudes, of the model Kiki in a turban. Painting the f-holes of a stringed instrument onto the photographic print and then rephotographing the print, Man Ray altered what was originally a classical nude. He also added the title Le Violon d'Ingres, a French idiom that means "hobby." The transformation of Kiki's body into a musical instrument with the crude addition of a few brushstrokes makes this a humorous image, but her armless form is also disturbing to contemplate. The title seems to suggest that, while playing the violin was Ingres's hobby, toying with Kiki was a pastime of Man Ray. The picture maintains a tension between objectification and appreciation of the female form.

http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=61240


I hope this clears up for anyone who thinks the photograph should be a cello. I hope it also clears up that I'm referencing an image that is as much about objectification as it is alluding to an artist.

[Aurélien87]

New work, I call "body lanscapes".

http://www.labo-argentique.com/boutique/Fichiers/Photos/Modeles/MagaliLanglade/Untitled_Panorama2.jpg

Linhof Bi-System / 250 mm FUJI SF
Foma 100 / Xtol, printed on Bergger CB STyle (Forte version) gold toned.

[kev curry]

Nice shot. Is that ''Bush Landing Strip Gobi Desert''?

[Armin Seeholzer]

Yes a good shaved venus is always very nice;--)))
Good light and framing!

Cheers Armin

[Tintype Bob]

I love the lighting and the contrast, the woman isn't bad either.

[Mark Sawyer]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g139/Owen21k/bellybutton.jpg
Portrait of a bellybutton...
8x10, Century 7a with a 13.5" Vitax

[Hugo Zhang]

New work, I call "body lanscapes".
Linhof Bi-System / 250 mm FUJI SF
Foma 100 / Xtol, printed on Bergger CB STyle (Forte version) gold toned.

Very very nice!

[Hugo Zhang]

Portrait of a bellybutton...
8x10, Century 7a with a 13.5" Vitax

Mark,

That is wonderful! How did the ideal come to you?!

[Mark Sawyer]

Mark,

That is wonderful! How did the ideal come to you?!

I don't really know, just spontaneous placement of an object in the landscape, knowing what that lens at that aperture would do in that light. Some of the lightplay was expected, and some was a surprise after developing the negative. But I've learned how to get myself into situations that sometimes present nice little surprises. I think those unexpected gifts are one of the things that keeps photography exciting. I'm glad you like it!

[Tintype Bob]

I love that shot and now I remember where I left my glasses.

[Robert Hughes]

That's what she said!