Using a Canon Speedlite with my View Camera?

[mfratt]

I haven't done a whole lot of work with flash in the past, but I'd like to try using my Canon Speedlite (580EX-II) as a flash for my 4x5. But, I'm a bit lost...

How do I determine the correct exposure given the flash on full power? What if I'm bouncing the flash either off a wall or using an umbrella?

I'd like to set myself up a small studio area in my apartment, for which I'd like to get a strobe or two, but I first need to begin to understand how to use flash properly, since a 4x5 doesn't exactly have TTL metering...

Thanks for your help.

[Ron Marshall]

You need a flashmeter:

http://www.lightingmagic.com/equipmet.htm

[Oren Grad]

Best solution is to get a flashmeter.

In the meantime, look up the table of guide numbers in the appendix of the instruction manual for your flash. If you don't know about guide numbers, google "flash guide number".

[Heespharm]

I do quite a bit of this in my weddings... Learn how to use it in manual mode... Know ur f-stops iso range for the flash... I usually go iso 400 f5.6 1/100th... But thats for 35mm

[David Beal]

A flashmeter is the elegant solution. If you don't have one, take Oren's advice and use guide numbers. Your unit appears to have a guide number of 190 with a 105 mm lens, which would translate (roughly) into a 300 mm lens for 4x5. You'll probably want to stop down more with your setup; for example, with a 300mm lens at f16, you're at a working distance of 10 feet.

Good Shooting.

/s/ David

[Frank Petronio]

Geez you guys are geeks... Dontcha think he might first want a way to sync the flash to the shutter?

In the bad old days one would use a sync cord, looking for one that went between the Canon sync connection female port to the view camera shutter's male PC X-Sync pin. You can still do it this way if you like.

The more modern option is to use a radio or infrared sync device, like a Pocket Wizard or one of the lesser reliable but much more affordable Chinese devices from eBay. You still need to connect the receiver to the flash using the proper cord or the hot shoe. And connect the transmitter to the shutter's PC X-Sync pin using the proper cord.

If you are using a >1970s shutter you may have a choice of X- or M-Sync. X is for electronic flash. You can Google what M is for ;-)

The Strobist http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ website is a good resource for what to get, at least for inexpensive stuff, and how to use simple lighting effectively. I wish there was an alternative to Strobist, it is a bit of a cult but it does have worthwhile information.

NOW about the Flash Meter.... Sure, nice thing to have. But for starting out, mate ye olde Canon flash to your Canon camera. Set the camera to manual and set the ISO to your 4x5 film speed. Set the shutter speed to 1/60th on both your cameras. Figure out which aperture and power setting on the flash you want to use. That's probably full max flash power and you'll be in the f/8 or f/11 range at moderate distances... focus your view camera carefully since the lens will be fairly wide open with a shallow depth of field.

[Bob Salomon]

M was for medium peak flash bulbs, the shutter fully opened when the bulb was fully ignited.
X is for electronic flash. The flash fires when the shutter is fully open.
F was for gas filled bulbs which you probably will never find.
You want to tape any synch lever on you shutter to the X position, if it is adjustable.
If you have an ancient shutter it may not be synched at all or could only be set for M synch. In either case you will not be able to easily use your flash with that kind of shutter.
You might also have a problem with coverage with a 580 flash since it is designed for a much smaller format then 45. However, with an iso 100 film a 580 probably has a guide number of about 190 with a 50mm lens. If you set the 580 for a wide lens the power will go down and if you set it for a longer lens the flash will cover less area but the GN will be higher. With the shorter setting the GN would be lower since the flash is covering a wider area. Pull the diffusor up and you will also lose output.
So, with a 190 GN and iso 100 film you would set your aperture between 16 and 22 as a starting point. If you prefer to work in meters then the GN would be about 58 and at 3 meters you would still be between 16 and 22.
You can use any shutter speed when working with a leaf shutter. That means that if you set a sutter speed that would be required when making an exposure between 16 and 22 with the existing room light the flash and the room light will be balanced overall. If you shoot at 1/500 then the background will go very dark and if you shoot at a slow speed the background will be very light and the subject might blur from camera or subject movement.

Have fun!

[mfratt]

Thanks for all the input guys.

I plan on getting a simple PC cable for now. Maybe I'll move to an IR setup at my experience and gear grows. Both of my lenses (150mm and 300mm) are quite old (60's-70's probably, the 300 may be even older. Its some huge metal 8x10 lens), so they do have both X and M synch. Is there any reason to use medium peak instead of electronic?

I was playing around with the flash on manual using my 50D, just to see if I could figure it out. The flash has a built in meter, so theres a mode where I can tell the flash my ISO and aperture, and it will (supposedly) meter its own exposure, then stop when it has received enough light. All my tests were underexposed by two stops, though (not using a gray card, but a grayish surface). I'm not entirely sure why, but if I could figure that out it all seems to make sense.

I think that a flash meter will be the next step for me. I need to get a spot meter anyway, so I'll probably get one of those Sekonic meters that do it all (I think its the L-508 that I'm thinking of).

[Brian C. Miller]

The Strobist http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ website is a good resource for what to get, at least for inexpensive stuff, and how to use simple lighting effectively. I wish there was an alternative to Strobist, it is a bit of a cult but it does have worthwhile information.

I just stumbled across Garage Glamor.com, and there is a lighting tips (http://www.garageglamour.com/tips/lightf.php) page, with diagrams in PDF. It doesn't tell what intensities to use, but it does tell how to set it up.

Added: Just also discovered Portrait Lighting.net (http://www.portraitlighting.net/index.htm), which has examples and diagrams.

[toolbox]

Thanks for all the input guys.

I plan on getting a simple PC cable for now. Maybe I'll move to an IR setup at my experience and gear grows. Both of my lenses (150mm and 300mm) are quite old (60's-70's probably, the 300 may be even older. Its some huge metal 8x10 lens), so they do have both X and M synch. Is there any reason to use medium peak instead of electronic?

I was playing around with the flash on manual using my 50D, just to see if I could figure it out. The flash has a built in meter, so theres a mode where I can tell the flash my ISO and aperture, and it will (supposedly) meter its own exposure, then stop when it has received enough light. All my tests were underexposed by two stops, though (not using a gray card, but a grayish surface). I'm not entirely sure why, but if I could figure that out it all seems to make sense.

I think that a flash meter will be the next step for me. I need to get a spot meter anyway, so I'll probably get one of those Sekonic meters that do it all (I think its the L-508 that I'm thinking of).

That the "automatic" mode you found... It's the old auto thyristor control that was popular before TTL and later ETTL were used. There's a little sensor in the front of the flash that measures the light reflected off the subject, and then shuts the flash off as soon as it's determined the exposure is correct. I don't have a 580 (just 550s), but I've use automatic mode with SB-28s, Vivitar 285s, and other hot shoe flashes, and I've always found my exposures were pretty accurate. It will have similar limitations to an exposure meter as far as under or over exposing bright and dark subjects, but it's often better than ETTL in those circumstances. If you're getting consistent over or under exposure, you can adjust the aperture setting on the flash to compensate. Also make sure the little window over the sensor is clean.

If you're shooting in conditions that change a lot, it works well. If you're shooting static subjects and lighting, a meter might be more helpful.

[Drew Bedo]

Make sure that you calculate the correction for bellows extension. for static objects you may consider leaving the shutter open and building up to the full exposure with multiple "pops" of the strobe as it recharges.

I have used three Vivitars for several years for stil life compositions.

Oh . . .and get a flash meter. I started with an old used model (don't remember what) for as little as I could pay, and bought one new when I could afford it. My "new" one is now 10 + years old, works like a champ and has paid for itself.

[ki6mf]

Related subject for B&W. First get you meter reading. The meter reads at 18%/Middle Gray/Zone 5. Caucasian skin is one stop lighter, Zone 6 in zone system terminology, than the meter reading. If you make your aperture open one stop from the meter reading, for example from f 8 to f 5.6 you will make the skin lighter and more creamy.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Guide numbers won't be of much help when bouncing flash off ceilings and walls or through light modifiers. Light intensity is cut by all that spreading of the light (and absorption by gray walls, etc) and will be very difficult to calculate with formulas. Too, the auto flash sensor will be a hindrance unless it's pointing at the subject. A flash meter measures the light falling on the subject, as does a TTL metered flash. If you already have a DSLR, you possess something even better than a flash meter-- you can use it as a proofing device for your manual flash and LF camera to see the effects of lighting ratio changes, shadows, etc. before committing to film.

[Bob Kerner]

Going to bump this to see how the OP is making out with the speedlights. Any luck?

I gave it a whirl last night. Disappointing. Ran a nikon flash into an umbrella about 4 ft from subject. Flash meter tells me iso 400 f11 at 1/60. I was hoping for deep dof, to see if I could do it. I couldn't.

The little flashes weren't designed with LF in mind, that's the bottom line. But it was worth trying.