Sanity check - filtering for reddish rocks?

[Steve Goldstein]

My assumption has been that a green or light-green filter would help to emphasize the texture and color variations of the sandstone layers in Zion NP (blue might be better, but perhaps too extreme). Comments? Am I completely wrong on this? Better to know before I travel....

And yes, I'll be using black-and-white film - my wife will be wielding the DSLR.

Thanks.

[Kirk Gittings]

I started using one after I read that Brett Weston used the same filter for red rocks. It does help.

[Steve Goldstein]

Thanks Kirk. I hadn't read that about Brett Weston. The green filters are packed!

[Kirk Gittings]

Have a great trip. I love that place. When I used to do workshops at Chaco Canyon which has yellow/red rocks, I did a demo with Polaroids and various filters, yellows, greens, reds, blues etc. Most people picked the green filtered examples as giving the most pleasing tones in the rocks (and some darkening of blue skies).

[gevalia]

I used a yellow/green #11 (I believe) with great success last year with windgate sandstone.

[Kirk Gittings]

Also I think you will find the initial effect looks a little flat on the negative. You could bump the development about 10% to correct this (I used to when I was super anal about such things), but found, for simplicities sake, that simply adjusting the print contrast worked as well.

[Drew Wiley]

In the canyon country I always carry a dk green filter for darkening the red rocks with
panchromatic film. Lt yellow-green still lets too much of the red through for me.

[Sal Santamaura]

Have a great trip. I love that place. When I used to do workshops at Chaco Canyon which has yellow/red rocks, I did a demo with Polaroids and various filters, yellows, greens, reds, blues etc. Most people picked the green filtered examples as giving the most pleasing tones in the rocks (and some darkening of blue skies).Kirk, there are several posts of yours around here where you comment on this subject. I'm curious which "green" filter you use. I've been considering the B+W 060 and Hoya XO. Yesterday, in this post


http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?105770-Request-an-Acros-like-film-from-Ilford&p=1052535&viewfull=1#post1052535,

Steve Goldstein wrote:


"I also looked at the curves of the B+W 060 and Hoya X0 filters, both of which are yellow-green. They're quite similar at shorter wavelengths, but the X0 has notably less transmission in the orange-red part of the spectrum."

Those curves do indeed show that the 060 transmits 95% at 550nm and only 15% less, i.e. 80%, at 650nm


http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/filters/FilterTransmissionCurves.pdf

while the XO transmits 85% at 550nm and a much larger 25% less, i.e. 60%, at 650nm


http://www.hoyafilter.com/hoya/products/coloredfilters/x0yellowgreen/.

It seems that these differences could have significant impacts on images of red rock scenes. Thanks in advance for sharing the specific filter(s) you use.

[Drew Wiley]

... Sorry to interject, Sal... but a lot depends on the specific film. ... and I make it a habit to generally carry both an XO and deep green Hoya, but not a hard tricolor like a 58. With something like ACROS you're already at first base, but ordinary pan film might require a bit of a boost. And there's a distinction between just bringing out texture and significantly darkening areas of brick red Navajo sandstone, which is a task be done by deep green, esp if you're working with a TMax film which can render this rather pastey otherwise. Zion Can per se has quite a range of geologic colors to deal with, depending on where you are, plus atmospheric considerations
with cloud renderings. Helps to have a versatile tool kit.

[ROL]

Not Kirk, but I think his simple illustration says volumes about filtration (Chaco being more yellow than many Southwest reds, as he has stated). If you try to get all technical on it, and attempt to compare long lost Wratten numbers on other than Kodak filters, you're likely to drive yourself crazy. Without spectrometers on site to match filtration to your film and paper (:eek:), it seems better to come up with common sense filters that will give you the greatest bang for your buck. Considering that filters used in panchromatic photography lighten their own colors and darken complementary colors, they can be an important asset for naturally corrective affect, or aesthetic heigtening. I use a B&W 061 (green) for all conditions where "reds", need darkening and/or greens need lightening (also helpful in darkening skies a bit as well). It renders Southwest red sandstones well enough for me to get the look I want through standard darkroom printing technique. If I were to add one filter to my standard carry, it would likely be a yellow-green, but that would typically be more for enhancing new spring time growth, in consideration of a general composition. Here are a few non-LF, 120 examples (e.g., proofs I hope to be able to justify making fine art prints of someday) of a variety of representative SW rock, all using a single 061 (the same filter I use with my LF lenses):


White Rim and Candlestick Tower
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/American-Southwest/White%20Rim%20and%20Candlestick%20Tower.jpg

Thunderstorm, Henry Mountains
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/American-Southwest/Thunderstorm%2C%20Henry%20Mountains.jpg

Reflections, Silver Fork Escalante
http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/albums/American-Southwest/Reflections%2C%20Silver%20Fork%20Escalante.jpg

[Brian Ellis]

The only purpose I know of for using colored filters (red, orange, green, etc.) in b&w photography is to separate different colors in the scene that otherwise would tend to merge in a b&w photograph. For example if the only colors in the scene are variations of reds all a green filter will accomplish is to make the reds darker than they would be without the filter, something that could be accomplished by using no filter and reducing the exposure time. In order for the filter to accomplish anything that couldn't be accomplished without it, there has to be some color in the scene that you want to be separated from some other color in the print. And even then, you need to be sure the filter won't have some undesired effect on one of the colors (e.g. a red filter used to darken a blue sky will also tend to turn green foliage black, something you likely don't want).

So in the OP's case, whether the green filter will accomplish anything that couldn't be accomplished without the filter depends on whether there are other colors in the rock besides red and whether the filter will have a different effect on the different colors. I don't think it's rocket science and as ROL says above, you can go crazy if you start making it complicated.

[Robert Langham]

I carry a green and a blue. I use 'em!

99703 Lightning Man, Shiprock, 2013.

[Drew Wiley]

It gets pretty instinctive after awhile. To a certain extent, you can simply look through any deep filter to anticipate the effect, though film tends to see things a little different than the eye. I gotta disagree with Brian about red filters, however. Most foliage does reflect a fair amt of red light - it is not pure green by any means. A red filter can actually enhance texture in green foliage. The key to all this is largely practice, and everything is relative to the final look you want in the
print itself. Since the sky is often a deep blue in the desert due to relatively clear air, deep green or red filters will also have the effect of accentuating shadow
contrast and the texture of rock and foliage in general. This can be very helpful if used judiciously, which means understanding what kinds of film and development will keep deep shadows alive, and when a green versus a red is the wiser decision. I personally have a strong preference for films with a long straight line when working in the desert and mtns, simply because the range of contrast in full daylight can be significant. My favorite 8x10 film for years for such usage was Bergger 200; now it's TMY400.

[Robert Langham]

And don't forget about polarizer. Leaves and rocks have more reflection on them than you might think. Polarizer takes the reflections off and you can see the rock better in many cases. Polarixer also very good on blooming trees- cuts the reflections off the other leaves and lets the blooms pop out.

99742 -Polarized.

99743 -Blue filtered.

99744 -Green filter.