Speed Graphic vs MPP??

[arca andy]

My old arca is to bulky for some urban landscapes I have been wanting to do for a while here in warm and sunny London (joke). So whilst replying to another thread I got a wondering, which is best Speed Graphic or MPP??
Ta Andy

[Lynn Jones]

Hi Andy,

The Speed Graphic is quite heavy, unless you need the focal plane shutter, consider the Crown Graphic, it is much lighter. The MPP is a bit heavier than the Crown but if you decide to buy it, check it very carefully, some of them weren't very well made, they were a copy of one of the Linhof press cameras. One of my former companies considered buying MPP and after evaluating the "factory" we dicided negatively.

Lynn

[arca andy]

Hi Andy,

The Speed Graphic is quite heavy, unless you need the focal plane shutter, consider the Crown Graphic, it is much lighter. The MPP is a bit heavier than the Crown but if you decide to buy it, check it very carefully, some of them weren't very well made, they were a copy of one of the Linhof press cameras. One of my former companies considered buying MPP and after evaluating the "factory" we dicided negatively.

Lynn

So Lyn are you saying that the Graphics are of better build quality than the MPP?
Andy

[Matt_Bigwood]

The MPP MicroPress is a wooden-bodied press camera with a focal plane shutter, similar in design to the Speed Graphic, and having used both I'd say the build quality is pretty much the same.

The MPP MicroTechnical series ran from the 1940s to early 1980s and is a metal-bodied technical camera, originally based on the Technika after the second world war but developed steadily until the final Mk8 version. The MPP technical cameras are much heavier than the MicroPress but my Mk8 is smooth in operation and has a far brighter focusing screen than the MicroPress.

There is more information here: http://www.mppusers.com/

Hope this helps,


Matt

[Brian C. Miller]

How about a Toyo? I have both a Super Graphic and a Toyo 45AX. They are quite similar, but the Toyo has some back movement. OK, sure, I use the Super Graphic the most because the lens can stay mounted.

[dave_whatever]

One point to consider is that speed/crown graphics have the back fixed in horizontal orientation, whereas I think the MPP technicals have a rotating back.

[Matt_Bigwood]

One point to consider is that speed/crown graphics have the back fixed in horizontal orientation, whereas I think the MPP technicals have a rotating back.

Yes indeed, and certainly my Mk8 has back movements which the press cameras don't have.

[engl]

My first large format camera was a Crown Graphic 4x5. I also do urban photos, you can see some shots I took with the Crown Graphic in this set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36164047@N06/sets/72157624941511610/

I have now changed to a MPP mk7. In my opinion, the MPP is way ahead of the crude Crown Graphic. Build quality (all metal), rigidity, "action" feels much better. It offers a lot more in terms of movement, geared rise/shift, more easily used swing/tilt, as well as back movements. The rotating back is a major advantage, adding convenience as well as movement combinations, such as using swing for tilt in both landscape and portrait orientation. Bellows draw is a lot longer, although stability is not very good at full extension. Other details I like is that the viewing hood is easily removed, and it has an accessory shoe.

The one thing I miss from my Crown is that my Fujinon NW-125/5.6 lens folded inside.

My opinion is obviously based on handling only one Crown Graphic and one MPP. I have read that the MPP mk7 is supposedly better built than the mk8, but I have never seen a mk8 so I do not know. Everything I have read suggests that the mk7 or mk8 are the ones to get.

[Matt_Bigwood]

My first large format camera was a Crown Graphic 4x5. I also do urban photos, you can see some shots I took with the Crown Graphic in this set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36164047@N06/sets/72157624941511610/

I have now changed to a MPP mk7. In my opinion, the MPP is way ahead of the crude Crown Graphic. Build quality (all metal), rigidity, "action" feels much better. It offers a lot more in terms of movement, geared rise/shift, more easily used swing/tilt, as well as back movements. The rotating back is a major advantage, adding convenience as well as movement combinations, such as using swing for tilt in both landscape and portrait orientation. Bellows draw is a lot longer, although stability is not very good at full extension. Other details I like is that the viewing hood is easily removed, and it has an accessory shoe.

The one thing I miss from my Crown is that my Fujinon NW-125/5.6 lens folded inside.

My opinion is obviously based on handling only one Crown Graphic and one MPP. I have read that the MPP mk7 is supposedly better built than the mk8, but I have never seen a mk8 so I do not know. Everything I have read suggests that the mk7 or mk8 are the ones to get.

I've also heard that the Mk7 is better than the Mk8 as it has a one-piece die-cast body, but the Mk8's body is assembled from several pieces, so not as rigid. The Mk8 also uses smaller lens panels with rounded edges, but previous versions have larger square-edged boards.

Here are a couple of pictures of my Mk8 with a 90mm Super Angulon attached: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbigwood/5218116109/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbigwood/5218704978/

[arca andy]

One point to consider is that speed/crown graphics have the back fixed in horizontal orientation, whereas I think the MPP technicals have a rotating back.

Is this true for the whole range of Speed and Crown Graphics? If so then I am certainly leaning towards an MPP...also I live in the bit of London where they were manufactured so may be I should be loyal to an old local brand.

[arca andy]

I've also heard that the Mk7 is better than the Mk8 as it has a one-piece die-cast body, but the Mk8's body is assembled from several pieces, so not as rigid. The Mk8 also uses smaller lens panels with rounded edges, but previous versions have larger square-edged boards.

Here are a couple of pictures of my Mk8 with a 90mm Super Angulon attached: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbigwood/5218116109/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbigwood/5218704978/


My first large format camera was a Crown Graphic 4x5. I also do urban photos, you can see some shots I took with the Crown Graphic in this set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36164047@N06/sets/72157624941511610/

I have now changed to a MPP mk7. In my opinion, the MPP is way ahead of the crude Crown Graphic. Build quality (all metal), rigidity, "action" feels much better. It offers a lot more in terms of movement, geared rise/shift, more easily used swing/tilt, as well as back movements. The rotating back is a major advantage, adding convenience as well as movement combinations, such as using swing for tilt in both landscape and portrait orientation. Bellows draw is a lot longer, although stability is not very good at full extension. Other details I like is that the viewing hood is easily removed, and it has an accessory shoe.

The one thing I miss from my Crown is that my Fujinon NW-125/5.6 lens folded inside.

My opinion is obviously based on handling only one Crown Graphic and one MPP. I have read that the MPP mk7 is supposedly better built than the mk8, but I have never seen a mk8 so I do not know. Everything I have read suggests that the mk7 or mk8 are the ones to get.

Just seen you photos...very nice

[dave_whatever]

Is this true for the whole range of Speed and Crown Graphics? If so then I am certainly leaning towards an MPP...also I live in the bit of London where they were manufactured so may be I should be loyal to an old local brand.

Basically yes, although the super graphic has a switchable back.

As a UK user I you'll find MPPs way more abundant on the second hand market anyway. A crown graphic will be a lit lighter though if mass is a consideration, I did consider one myself but ended up with a lightweight Shenhao instead.

[Brian C. Miller]

The Super Graphic's back rotates, and it has Graflok clips. The Toyo 45AX's back is removed to switch between horizontal and vertical, and it also has Graflok clips.

BTW, Mark, your Mk7 looks absolutely lovely!

[mandoman7]

I used my Crown Graphic with 2 quick release (Arca) plates for vertical and horizontal tripod mounting. With the plates left on, changing orientation was just as quick as with a rotating back. Simpler too.

[arca andy]

I used my Crown Graphic with 2 quick release (Arca) plates for vertical and horizontal tripod mounting. With the plates left on, changing orientation was just as quick as with a rotating back. Simpler too.

Hi Mandoman
But once in the portrait orientation can you raise the lens?

[Jim Jones]

Hi Mandoman
But once in the portrait orientation can you raise the lens?

The Graphic has about 1/2 inch shift, which would provide slight rise in portrait orientation.

I sometimes use an old Burke and James press camera, which has all metal construction, full front tilt, and a rotating back. The Pacemaker Graphics have other advantages, like fold-down infinity stops and many accessories.

[dave shutter]

MPP & is the way to go, great quality at reasonable prices.

[dave shutter]

MPP 7 is the way forward, great quality at a reasonable price

[arca andy]

On the MPP I notice that a 90mm lens is mounted on a cone and the railboard is then dropped down, is that because you'ld get the rails in the photo if you didn't drop them down out of site? So would you use a cone on a 75mm lens?

[Matt_Bigwood]

Hi Andy

You need to mount a 90mm on a cone so that the front standard is on the short rail inside the body, before the point where the rails hinge. If it was on a flat panel the front standard would be on the front section of the rails outside the body, so you couldn't drop the bed and you''d get the end of it in the picture.

I've never used anything wider than a 90mm but in theory a 75mm would need to be on a cone lens panel.

You can just about see where the rails hinge in this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbigwood/5218116109/

[arca andy]

Looks like its the MPP for me, thanks to all for helping me come to that conclusion.
Andy

[Matt_Bigwood]

Good choice Andy, and good luck in your search for an MPP.

Here's a short video I made of my MPP being used in anger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl0Pa7UTpuo

[Brian C. Miller]

Good job, Matt! Good to see you out and about there with the Mk7. Were you wearing a wireless mic for that?

[IanG]

Probably a good decision.

I own two Speed Graphics and a Crown Graphic (they aren't my main 5x4 cameras), I've been half looking for an MPP Mk VII for a few years.

MPP with British Government help based their Micro Technical camera on the Linhof Technika made at the start of WWII, the MPP and and later Linhof models were way ahead of any Gralfex cameras at the time.

There's Pros & Cons to the MPP's, I've finally by chance gone the other way buying a Graflex Super Graphic a couple of days ago, this is Graflex's rather late competitor to Linhof & MPP, a technical camera rather than a Press Camera.

Ian

[Matt_Bigwood]

Good job, Matt! Good to see you out and about there with the Mk7. Were you wearing a wireless mic for that?

Thanks Brian, but that's not me in the film, it's a lad who has worked with me, and yes, he was wearing a radio mic.

[engl]

BTW, Mark, your Mk7 looks absolutely lovely!


Good job, Matt! Good to see you out and about there with the Mk7. Were you wearing a wireless mic for that?

Just a minor correction, in both the photo and video, the camera is a MPP Mk8.

[al olson]

Probably a good decision.

. . . I've finally by chance gone the other way buying a Graflex Super Graphic a couple of days ago, this is Graflex's rather late competitor to Linhof & MPP, a technical camera rather than a Press Camera.
. . .

hmm, I always thought it was a press camera. (ca. 1957) :)

http://photo-artiste.com/images/basic/presscamera.jpg

[IanG]

hmm, I always thought it was a press camera. (ca. 1957) :)

http://photo-artiste.com/images/basic/presscamera.jpg

Well Graflex did claim they had the features of their Press cameras but also many new features as well :D

A Technical camera is designed to be used as an all round "work-horse" LF camera, so has a good range of movements and the capability for Press use as well.

However Press cameras and particularly the Pacemaker Graphics and earlier Graflex's have very limited movements so have reduced capabilities.

In many respects it's the legacy of WWII aircraft building that gave us the lighter alloys used in many Technical cameras like the Linhof's, MPP's and later the Super Graphics.

So a Technical camera can be used as a Press camera but not vice versa.

Ian

[martinf5]

very good thread,
I hope mine arives next days,
directly from England

cheers

martin

[IanG]

very good thread,
I hope mine arives next days,
directly from England

cheers

martin

Have fun with your MPP Martin welcome to the world of LF :D

Ian

[martinf5]

Have fun with your MPP Martin welcome to the world of LF :D

Ian

thanks a lot,
it's hard to wait

still having training days

72681

[martinf5]

arrived, monday

[IanG]

I've place high res scans of the MPP mkVII sales literature on Fickr, you can find them via via camera-wiki (http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/M.P.P._Micro_Technical_Mark_VII). Here's smaller versions they open slightly larger if you click on them..

73000

73001

I bought a 1940 Kodak Professional Catalogue and tucked inside were a much later MPP mkV11 sales leaflet and a price list, the original owner had ticked some items presumably what he bought.

Ian

[martinf5]

does anyone know who old a MPP VII is,
one number on the side is 9X6852892, it's hand written on the viewfinder focusing plate

[Rod_B]

Hi Martin,
Look at this website page http://www.mppusers.com/proddates.htm. Seems like it's from 1956-1962.
Regards,
Rod.

[ndrs]

does anyone know who old a MPP VII is,
one number on the side is 9X6852892, it's hand written on the viewfinder focusing plate

This number not the camera's serial number, it's the serial of the lens the focusing cam was made for. Camera numbes were engraved under the rotating back. Mine has an engraving of 9310 and Aug. 61.
Approximate production dates can be found here (http://www.mppusers.com/proddates.htm).

[martinf5]

thanks a lot,
the serial is 8627
and I love the turnable back :-)

[graywolf]

Well, there is a bit of misdirection here.

A press camera is a hand held camera that can be used as a limited view camera.

A technical camera is a view camera that can also be used hand held.

Now my own experience is limited to a Speed Graphic, a Crown Graphic, and a Super Technika. The Technika was almost twice as heavy as the Crown Graphic. In fact the tripod head that worked fine with the Speed Graphic was just too weak to use with the Technika (I had those two cameras at about the same time). The heavier head I bought because of that handles a Toyo-View 45G (even heavier than the Technika) just fine. Actually, if I could still get 4x5 film packs, the Crown Graphic kit that I currently use would be lighter than my DSLR kit, but a dozen or more sheet film holders does add weight quickly.

My point here is that if you are looking primarily for a tripod mounted camera, go with the technical camera, if you are looking primarily for a hand held camera go with a press camera. In fact I consider my Crown Graphic as a P&S camera.

[Helen Bach]

Well, there is a bit of misdirection here.

A press camera is a hand held camera that can be used as a limited view camera.

A technical camera is a view camera that can also be used hand held.

So are you suggesting that the MPP Micro Technical 5x4 is neither micro nor technical?

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/8299985-lg.jpg

Best,
Helen

[graywolf]

So are you suggesting that the MPP Micro Technical 5x4 is neither micro nor technical?

Best,
Helen

Nope, I am suggesting that it is not a press camera, and that press cameras and technical cameras are different beasts, intended for different purposes, although both can overlap the others territory.

[IanG]

Nope, I am suggesting that it is not a press camera, and that press cameras and technical cameras are different beasts, intended for different purposes, although both can overlap the others territory.

Linhof Technikas, Super Graphics and MPP Micro Technical cameras are all Technical cameras but they were also sold as Press cameras ven tough Graflex and MPP made more basic Press camera. In fact MPP's MicroPress is a Speed Graphic in an MPP (Celestion speakers) housing.

A Technical camera can be a Press camera but not all Press cameras have the capabilties if Technical cameras.

Ian

[martinf5]

73331

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