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kissssss
27-Nov-2010, 09:07
Hi everyone,

These days, I put the film and paper in my car trunk and the weather is usually -15C outside and increasing to -40C in Jan... This store is good or bad??? I don't know. Everyone who know, please share your ideas.

:):):)

Ari
27-Nov-2010, 10:06
I like to keep film cool, not cold. The fridge is good for that, plus it maintains a low humidity.
I don't know where you live, but we have cold and humid (wet) winters here. I wouldn't want to leave film and paper at the mercy of the weather.

CG
27-Nov-2010, 11:17
If the temperatures in your car trunk stay that cold, your film will stay in very good shape. However, if you park your car in the sun, and if the temperature in your trunk goes way up, your film storage may not be as optimal as it might seem. I don't know the specifics of what happens in the trunk, but car interior passenger compartments with lots of glass warm considerably in strong sunlight.

jp
27-Nov-2010, 11:19
Outdoors probably has lots of serious temperature fluctuation, which can't be good for most things. Rodents could get it too.

A full freezer will have very very small fluctuations in temp (which creates the big freezer burn crystals because the temp change is so slow)

I just keep film in the fridge. If you're looking for cheap/free winter film/paper storage, a rodent free unheated garage would be my choice. B&W paper doesn't seem to go bad quick enough for me to need to refrigerate that; I don't have paper more than 1-2 years old.

jeroldharter
27-Nov-2010, 13:05
How much film and paper are you talking about? Small amounts should be easy enough to store indoors. Large quantities are too expensive to leave in a trunk. You could easily have hundreds of dollars of materials in there.

Barry Kirsten
27-Nov-2010, 13:42
What about the fogging effect of vapors from fuel, plastics and adhesives used in car manufacture that may be present in the car trunk? These are less likely to be a problem at low temperatures, but worth considering IMO. (I'm amazed at the chemicals which affect film/paper - even common things like coffee, some medicines!)

Baz.

BetterSense
27-Nov-2010, 14:49
I 'stored' a 35mm camera in my truck glove box all year, including a sweltering Dallas summer where car temperatures hit over 140F. I just developed it last week; I don't have any desitometer numbers for you but the pictures came out fine. Tri-X 400.

Sirius Glass
27-Nov-2010, 15:02
There are two problems with storing a camera in a car with high temperatures:
a) It can mess up the film.
b) Over time the grease and oils in the lens can migrate to the iris and shutter. The result will me getting the lens CLAed.

Steve

rguinter
27-Nov-2010, 20:22
Hi everyone,

These days, I put the film and paper in my car trunk and the weather is usually -15C outside and increasing to -40C in Jan... This store is good or bad??? I don't know. Everyone who know, please share your ideas.

:):):)

I think you mean decreasing... i.e., going from -15C to -40C.

Anyway -40 is where the two curves Fahrenheit and Celsius cross... so -40C = -40F. That's pretty cold, relatively speaking.

I can't make any comments about photo paper... I've never owned any. But I've not heard of any films being damaged by long term exposure to very low temperatures. To the contrary, it is usually beneficial to keep film as cold as possible during long term storage. And some films, i.e., Kodak Infrareds, I've been told were shipped originally on dry ice which is -109F (-78C).

I keep factory sealed packages of purchased film in a freezer at -5F (-20C) until I open them for use... then any remainder I keep in a separate refrigerator at +34F (+1C) in zip-lock bags until used up. Then I go for more from my separate freezer.

But I take the extra precaution of sealing (the already factory sealed) packages inside vacuum-pack food storage bags. I bought one of the food-sealing units for this purpose but I don't use the vacuum function to suck out the air... only the sealing function after squeezing out as much of the air that I can by hand.

But as other posters mentioned, the conditions in your car trunk may not be optimal or very stable for safe storage. You didn't mention how long you plan to keep these materials in the trunk or where you live. The trunk temperature is likely to vary quite a bit during sunlight hours.

If you must keep film and paper in the trunk for extended periods, perhaps get one of the high-end coolers like the Yetti. Put the film and paper inside the Yetti and keep that in the trunk. Yetti's are almost invulnerable to animals and they are so well insulated that temperature and humidity fluctuations will scarcely affect its interior temperature.

I see my post is rather long... but some thoughts that could help. If you live where these temperatures are common you have my respect... and I'm betting you get some beautiful winter photos.

Cheers. Bob G.

GPS
28-Nov-2010, 09:07
I think you mean decreasing... i.e., going from -15C to -40C.

...

Cheers. Bob G.

:) Not necessarily. -40 is bigger (greater) cold than -15...;)
The temperature is surly OK. But paper is hygroscopic so it would be wise to keep it in a dry, if cold, sealed box.

GPS
28-Nov-2010, 09:14
Hi everyone,

These days, I put the film and paper in my car trunk and the weather is usually -15C outside and increasing to -40C in Jan... This store is good or bad??? I don't know. Everyone who know, please share your ideas.

:):):)

By the way- you want to drive the car all the time with the film? Could be detrimental to it if it's free in the package. The film could suffer scratching.

rguinter
28-Nov-2010, 09:21
:) Not necessarily. -40 is bigger (greater) cold than -15...;)
The temperature is surly OK. But paper is hygroscopic so it would be wise to keep it in a dry, if cold, sealed box.

Any way you look at it is OK with me.

But that is the reverse of algebraic and thermodynamic convention.

Bob G.

Preston
28-Nov-2010, 09:36
If you must keep film and paper in the trunk for extended periods, perhaps get one of the high-end coolers like the Yetti.

I was going to suggest using a cooler. The Yeti seems to be an excellent solution.

Personally, I would not store film and/or paper in a vehicle's trunk for the reasons already mentioned.

Keeping paper dry is a must. I would say the same for film.

--P

Sirius Glass
28-Nov-2010, 15:50
Any way you look at it is OK with me.

But that is the reverse of algebraic and thermodynamic convention.

Bob G.

Well it works if the absolute value is used, especially near absolute zero.

Steve

rguinter
28-Nov-2010, 17:35
Well it works if the absolute value is used, especially near absolute zero.

Steve

The absolute value is an "operator" which is useful in mathematics for many special applications. But it is not very useful in this case.

And I don't understand what you mean by how it works near absolute zero. Absolute zero is the null point on the Kelvin temperature scale where heat energy is zero... an unattainable condition in physical systems but, nevertheless, the point where the Kelvin temperature scale starts. Consequently, the Kelvin scale has no negative numbers.

The Celsius scale is based on the triple-point of water assigned the value zero, which is 273.15 K. And that is the null point on the number line of the Celsius scale that our OP is referencing.

The correct algebraic and thermodynamic concept is that -40 is a lower value than -15. That is related to their classic positions on the number line that goes from negative infinity (on the left) to positive infinity (on the right) in Cartesian coordinate systems.

And the convention is that values increase when moving on the number line from left to right. And conversely, values decrease when moving from right to left.

Just the way it is. And best not to reverse that for any one particular mental construct if one wants to stay true to the science.

In this case the correct construct is to consider -40C to be a lower (heat) energy state than -15C... not a greater cold.

Bob G.

Sirius Glass
28-Nov-2010, 18:49
The absolute value is an "operator" which is useful in mathematics for many special applications.


Congratulations you broke the code!


And I don't understand what you mean by how it works near absolute zero.

Well, maybe you did not.


Absolute zero is the null point on the Kelvin temperature scale where heat energy is zero... an unattainable condition in physical systems but, nevertheless, the point where the Kelvin temperature scale starts. Consequently, the Kelvin scale has no negative numbers.

Absolute Zero is equal to 0 K and is equal to -273C and is equal to −459.67 F and is equal to 0R [Rankine] hence 0K exists.


And I don't understand what you mean by how it works near absolute zero.

This is a reference to professorial jokes made in the first thermodynamics course.

First Law: You cannot win. :(
Second Law: Even though you cannot win, you must play. :mad:
Third Law: Perfect conditions are reached at absolute zero or insanity, which ever comes first. :eek:


Therefore using the second part of the third law, what I posted before makes perfect sense. Is that clear? :confused:

Have a few drinks of Absolut and that should help clear things up for you.

Steve

kissssss
28-Nov-2010, 19:31
:):):) I greatly appreciate you by your ideas.

The car trunk is a good freezer but the humidity is a bad factor that I need to keep avoiding from my stuff. However, I have to take some of negatives and some prints for testing. Sometimes, testing is always the thing to do, but discussion is good for everyone who share their experience.

I don't think the car trunk be warmed up under the sunshine in winter days, but it is cooler than inside the car (seat location) in summer days. I put the film and paper to cooler in summer.

Thank you very much!
Keep hearing from you.
Truong

Michael Cienfuegos
29-Nov-2010, 22:42
Congratulations you broke the code!



Well, maybe you did not.



Absolute Zero is equal to 0 K and is equal to -273C and is equal to −459.67 F and is equal to 0R [Rankine] hence 0K exists.



This is a reference to professorial jokes made in the first thermodynamics course.

First Law: You cannot win. :(
Second Law: Even though you cannot win, you must play. :mad:
Third Law: Perfect conditions are reached at absolute zero or insanity, which ever comes first. :eek:


Therefore using the second part of the third law, what I posted before makes perfect sense. Is that clear? :confused:

Have a few drinks of Absolut and that should help clear things up for you.

Steve

Hear! Hear! That (Absolut) I DO keep very cold.

Sirius Glass
30-Nov-2010, 05:20
I keep Gin and Vodka in the freezer. It prevents ice poisoning.

Steve

BetterSense
30-Nov-2010, 08:17
The Celsius scale is based on the triple-point of water assigned the value zero, which is 273.15 K

The triple point of Vienna standard ocean water, to be precise. Not just any old water.

kissssss
30-Nov-2010, 09:03
:) A lot of scientific...