Restoration of Century Grand Studio, Opinions welcome!

[Mark Paschke]

Alright I have decided to go full blown restore on my camera, I didnt see any restoration areas in the forums but if there are I will move this there!

I would like some viewpoints, opinions and pictures, pictures, pictures if possible.

Im starting with the bellows and my first question is, do most prefer a Flat, semi gloss or gloss on their bellows, I have this material that I used on my audio treatment in my Home theater and its hard to take a picture of so I will include 2, it falls in between closer to the darker.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1239.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1241.jpg

Its called Duck cloth and resembles canvas as much as cloth, the original bellows appear to be canvas with paint or a rubbery substance "painted/rolled" on, Im headed to a materials store as well as a leather store to take a gander in a little while.

As you can tell from the pics, the camera is in good but not great shape. Im going for a new but old finish, this is easy enough with cabinet dye and Waterlox original 1909.

Does anyone know if these had a flat, semi, or gloss on the wood when new? You would have to be 110 years old to actually know for sure but is there any way of knowing?

On the lenses, after cleaning, do you guys spray a protective coating on them and if so, same question flat, semi or gloss? My guess was original was a laquer

[Mark Paschke]

Oh and I forgot to ask about the shutters, did these cameras have shutters originally, did Voightlander have shutters or did photographers buy an Ilexpo shutter? I have several people that have working Ilexpos on the forums here and I cant see from the pictures if they are thin and fit into the original Lens board spot and then you get different 6-3/4 lens boards or.........

Are they basically a replacement for the original lens board with the same edge design?

[goamules]

All the Century studio cameras I've seen are a semigloss finish. The field cameras were usually gloss.

On the lenses, they were gloss lacquered, and each manufacturer added natural dyes that changed the color slightly, most went towards golden yellow/orange. The Voigtlanders were more clear. There is a discussion in this forum and a guy that did a pretty good replica color. What I've done on the few lenses I've polished (again, only if they have already had the original lacquer polished off) is leave them in the white, and cover with a little Renaissance Wax. That way, you can touch up the polish from time to time. Without wax, polished brass will patina in a few short years, especially if handled or in a poor environment. I'm sure your dad had polished these at some point, so their patina isn't really that old.

[Louis Pacilla]

Hi Mark

Welcome!

"Are they basically a replacement for the original lens board with the same edge design?"

Yes they replace the 9x9 board then you mount your lenses on 6 3/4 lens boards. Saves a bit of cash over buying a packard for every lens you'll own.

I have added a snap of a Ilexpo shutter installed on century.the shutter mechanism is in the rear of the shutter covered by a metal plate for protection. the top tab opens the shutter for viewing & the bottom tab moves the shutter from time 15th- 25th of a second. The other is bulb setting. Sometimes they synced & most time not. This one has flash sync.

[Louis Pacilla]

Sorry I goofed & removed the snap. I was trying to add another snap with front of Ilexpo & a series IV Euryskop #5 while removing previous snap.
I believe this is one of your lenses.

[Jay DeFehr]

Mark,

Hello and welcome!

I cringe at the thought of you disassembling this lovely camera. I would think twice before committing, and if you still decide to restore, think twice again. Your camera is in very good, unmolested condition. I would recommend you clean the camera, replace the bellows with a professionally made one, and give yourself a solid pat on the back for returning a fine camera to service. Whatever you do, don't polish those brass lenses, they've earned their patina.

Do you have any of the photos your Father made with this camera?

[goamules]

...Whatever you do, don't polish those brass lenses, they've earned their patina...

Jay, the only way a lens gets a patina is if someone 10, 50, 100 years ago took the original lacquer off. If the original lacquer is in place they are shiny brass...and should not be polished. But many lenses were polished at some time in the past, leaving the raw brass to tarnish. The original finish is gone. Yes, it looks old, but it can be a lot newer than you think. Try this, polish bright a piece of brass, then handle it a couple times a week for a couple months. You will have an "ancient" patina.

Gentle polishing of brass that no longer has the varnish is no more damaging than polishing the family sterling silverware. We don't revere (no pun) black, tarnished silverware.

[Mark Paschke]

Hi Mark

Welcome!

"Are they basically a replacement for the original lens board with the same edge design?"

Yes they replace the 9x9 board then you mount your lenses on 6 3/4 lens boards. Saves a bit of cash over buying a packard for every lens you'll own.

I have added a snap of a Ilexpo shutter installed on century.the shutter mechanism is in the rear of the shutter covered by a metal plate for protection. the top tab opens the shutter for viewing & the bottom tab moves the shutter from time 15th- 25th of a second. The other is bulb setting. Sometimes they synced & most time not. This one has flash sync.Thank you so much I figured this was the case but wanted to be sure before I commited to buying, now I just need sme 6.75 lens boards!

[Mark Paschke]

Sorry I goofed & removed the snap. I was trying to add another snap with front of Ilexpo & a series IV Euryskop #5 while removing previous snap.
I believe this is one of your lenses.Yes and thanks again, I may be a lil hosed here. The "Tab" sticking out of the Voightlander must be the iris? My large lens is missing this and I notice inside the lens theres 2 screws and a bracket on opposite sides, my guess is Im missing the original iris?

Mine is a
5
Euryscop

No.32306

Voightlander & John
Braunschneig

Can I find that "iris" if thats what its missing, Im also missing lens caps but have a lens hood

[Mark Paschke]

Mark,

Hello and welcome!

I cringe at the thought of you disassembling this lovely camera. I would think twice before committing, and if you still decide to restore, think twice again. Your camera is in very good, unmolested condition. I would recommend you clean the camera, replace the bellows with a professionally made one, and give yourself a solid pat on the back for returning a fine camera to service. Whatever you do, don't polish those brass lenses, they've earned their patina.

Do you have any of the photos your Father made with this camera?The photos we originally took were on proof paper from what I remember because they slowly disappeared with inside lighting. Im giving making my own bellows a quick try with "stuff" I have laying about. I already have the stiffeners cut in about 30 minutes, Im sort of using this guys plans because I like his results and it appears hes researched well http://my.net-link.net/~jsmigiel/bellows.html

Cutting stiffeners, the tape speeds up the process considerably

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1243.jpg

[Louis Pacilla]

Mark your lens is missing the Waterhouse stops(Do a search as there is a bunch of threads on the subject). In short the early lenses had a slot cut in the barrel & the lens came with a set of stops that slide in this slot. Very accurate but often missing. I got kind of lucky with this one as it has a full set. You will find that they are not difficult to make yourself. Again, do a search on Waterhouse stops Making them, calculating stops & just about any info you will need. It has already posted in a thread.

I would willing to scan them & email them to you sometime next week. This way you could use them for a template & have the original sizes in the Voigtlander set.


Yes and thanks again, I may be a lil hosed here. The "Tab" sticking out of the Voightlander must be the iris? My large lens is missing this and I notice inside the lens theres 2 screws and a bracket on opposite sides, my guess is Im missing the original iris?

Mine is a
5
Euryscop

No.32306

Voightlander & John
Braunschneig

Can I find that "iris" if thats what its missing, Im also missing lens caps but have a lens hood

[Mark Paschke]

Mark your lens is missing the Waterhouse stops(Do a search as there is a bunch of threads on the subject). In short the early lenses had a slot cut in the barrel & the lens came with a set of stops that slide in this slot. Very accurate but often missing. I got kind of lucky with this one as it has a full set. You will find that they are not difficult to make yourself. Again, do a search on Waterhouse stops Making them, calculating stops & just about any info you will need. It has already posted in a thread.

I would willing to scan them & email them to you sometime next week. This way you could use them for a template & have the original sizes in the Voigtlander set.You're the Man! I would be in your debit!

[Jay DeFehr]

Garret,

I defer to your expertise. Mark's lenses just look so lovely as they are.

Mark,

I didn't mean to seem discouraging. I'm sure you can make a fine bellows on your own. When you make the next photos to be made with your camera, I hope they'll be better protected than the old proofs were. Good luck, and enjoy!

[Mark Paschke]

Garret,

I defer to your expertise. Mark's lenses just look so lovely as they are.

Mark,

I didn't mean to seem discouraging. I'm sure you can make a fine bellows on your own. When you make the next photos to be made with your camera, I hope they'll be better protected than the old proofs were. Good luck, and enjoy!Actually Jay, they look lovely because I cleaned them! they had patina and in a couple areas it wasnt the "good" patina, they cleaned up nicely but still need a little more work

[Mark Paschke]

Heres a before and after ( still more needed) of the lenses

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1218.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1235.jpg

[Jay DeFehr]

It's a great project, Mark. Best of luck!

[bobwysiwyg]

May I ask a question about these lenses? I've seen many posts and know many members collect and shoot with them. Does refinishing them (i.e. removing patina) adversely affect their value like it would other vintage/antique objects? Obviously I'm somewhat ignorant on the subject. ;)

[Jim Galli]

May I ask a question about these lenses? I've seen many posts and know many members collect and shoot with them. Does refinishing them (i.e. removing patina) adversely affect their value like it would other vintage/antique objects? Obviously I'm somewhat ignorant on the subject. ;)

Interested in the opinions on this also. I tend to be conservative. I'll clean off dirt and and buff with a soft cloth, but I leave the original patina alone. No matter what you do it isn't going to make the pictures any different, so really doesn't matter very much.

[Mark Paschke]

May I ask a question about these lenses? I've seen many posts and know many members collect and shoot with them. Does refinishing them (i.e. removing patina) adversely affect their value like it would other vintage/antique objects? Obviously I'm somewhat ignorant on the subject. ;)Im going to have to side with goamules on the issue, if (and thats a big if) the original lacquer coating is still on the lens it should never patina considering patina is caused by the elements coming into contact with the brass. Lacquer in my experience is not the toughest of stuff even in the 1800-early 1900s. Todays lacquers are even a tad bit on the wimpy side even with the advancement of chemicals.

It would take as little as a fingernail to scratch the best of lacquer off a solid brass object in perfect 65 degree weather. My guess is the photographers that owned these old lenses were careful but even careful is going to "rub" the lacquer off. Looking inside my lenses the black Paint/lacquer is slightly worn and degradinging ever so slightly and there should be no abuse inside.

My lenses arent valuble enough to worry about patina losing me money if I chose to sell them because the highest price I saw a perfect #5 Voightlander go for was $650, if these babies were worth 20k, Id really start to think about leaving them alone or go to an expert.

They look very nice polished up, they werent bad unpolished either but I could see indications of troubles had they been left another 100 years.

[Steven Tribe]

I have held back because other were saying sensible things! But! These lenses were not in the danger area for further tarnishing. They were a very healthy colour - showing they have been well stored the last century. The only lenses which deserve surface treatments are those that been in unheated/damp stores for decades. These have deep pits and signs of green copper oxides/carbonates and sometimes the reddish copper showing up as the zink is leached away. These will continue to deteriorate and new finishing is a good idea.

I like the way you are going about the bellows, though!

I think the wood looks fine as it is. I note a few areas of wood damage rather than darkened lacquer and crazing. If you strip and refinish, these areas - which can't be repaired - will look much more out of place.

[goamules]

There was a thread on this board on the polishing of brass a while ago. Someone who works at a museum said they conserve/preserve by polishing then waxing. I'm sure it depends on the item, a 1000 year old bronze sword is not polished. A 200 year old telescope is.

From a more practical standpoint, I see tarnished lenses usually sell for less than a bright one. The same as a tarnished antique brass trumpet or other instrument, a tarnished brass headlight fixture on an antique Model T car, a tarnished old silver tea set. I notice antique telescope collectors have no problem with, and pay more, for a nicely polished telescope. Ship collectibles like binnacles or portholes are always worth more polished.

Here are some special brass items with patinas you would never touch: Tiffany Lamps or other Arts and Craft era items - the patina was factory applied and you will kill the value if you remove. Guns - the patina is something collectors expect (mostly steel, but some brass).

What I want to reiterate is originality is everything. If a lens is rare or has most of it's original varnish (which is actually quite tough) you should not touch the finish. If a lens has been polished dozens of times during it's lifetime, what is the harm in doing it again if it's been avoided for 10 or 20 years? And the polishing should be with a non abrasive method, I do think it detracts from the value when I see someone has used emery paper or power tools. You would not use that on badly tarnished silverware, so don't on brass optics.

These are the thoughts I have.

[Mark Paschke]

I have held back because other were saying sensible things! But! These lenses were not in the danger area for further tarnishing. They were a very healthy colour - showing they have been well stored the last century. The only lenses which deserve surface treatments are those that been in unheated/damp stores for decades. These have deep pits and signs of green copper oxides/carbonates and sometimes the reddish copper showing up as the zink is leached away. These will continue to deteriorate and new finishing is a good idea.

I like the way you are going about the bellows, though!

I think the wood looks fine as it is. I note a few areas of wood damage rather than darkened lacquer and crazing. If you strip and refinish, these areas - which can't be repaired - will look much more out of place.Actually my Voightlander 5 was in need of cleaning and it took awhile to get it by hand. Notice the area from the V down to the B the rusty color, that was a good several coats of brasso and a soft cloth. Also if you look where the lens attaches to the lens board between 6 o'clock and 8 o'clock, even in my AFTER picture theres still so remaining. That area is a little tough to clean but I'm working on it.......Im bellow building now since the wife FINALLY showed up with my Fabric marking pen, had to take a break after an hour of doing layout!

[Mark Paschke]

Well after cutting all the stiffiners as per the directions of that web site, Im finding that Im not sure how this type of bellow can be sucessfully mounted to a square frame. My guess is this wont work and its too bad because I really like the look as compared to what my originals looked like. Maybe Im just too tired but I see no practical way this mounts properly to a perfectly square frame without splitting a pleat in half and even then I dont think it fits into the century when compressed

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/bellows_n_F1.jpg

[Steven Tribe]

The result looks very good.

Just one question - was the "original" bellows folded this way with "diagonals"? All the Century Studios I have seen - albeit later models from Century/Eastman and Eastman - have square type folds.

[Mark Paschke]

The result looks very good.

Just one question - was the "original" bellows folded this way with "diagonals"? All the Century Studios I have seen - albeit later models from Century/Eastman and Eastman - have square type folds.Hey Steve, thats not my result, I wish it were I really love the look as compared to my originals. If you read my post again Im saying I cant figure out a way to make this style work with a square frame in the confines of the Century Camera because with this style a pleat ends in a rectangle, not a square. The people mounting these on square frames must have opposite sides sticking out past the square frame, Im not beaten yet, just losing the battle in my feeble mind.

Last night I stopped at this point, I sure wish I could make this style work
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1248.jpg

[Mark Paschke]

Actually I think I can still make this style work, theres enough room above and below on a Century for the extra 1-1/4" pleat to tuck into when compressed, I just have to make sure my math works out. Only out time and my last peice of poster board if it doesnt work

[Steven Tribe]

Sorry, I jumped straight to the illustration and missed the text above! "Square " bellows are much easier to fit into the framing rims.

[Mark Paschke]

Sorry, I jumped straight to the illustration and missed the text above! "Square " bellows are much easier to fit into the framing rims.My problem was I layed out an exact layout of my original and used the other guys math to cut my stiffeners. Hopefully Im thinking correctly here in the fact half my stiffs are still good and I have to increase the sides 2-1/2" making the bellows a perfect square at a seam ( on my original frame)

It seems to work laid out, and in my head but please someone jump in and say NOooooo if they see otherwise!

[Steven Tribe]

I can only measure my own bellows which are a professional replacement in the original style and these are NOT absolutely square. The across dimension is 29cm and the down is 33cm. The overlap of material under the bellows is about an inch. Hope this helps rather than confuses!

[Mark Paschke]

Well, I snuck down stair a few times and popped these guys out, they're sitting under weight right now but I was highly satisfied after my initial folding.......these things are pretty easy. Frames fit flawlessly as well, Im pretty pumped it didnt fail and was pretty fast for a first shot

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1253.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1259.jpg

[Mark Paschke]

I was going to add a bracing leg at the halfway point made out of material but the bellows are stiff as a board holding horizontal, I dont think I will have too. They compress fully with ease and will stretch to 23.50" which my tightening keeper starts to be close to falling out

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1264.jpg

[Jimi]

I am impressed! My skills with maths, cutting and folding bellows are clearly lacking, that's for sure. In the time you made a whole bellows, I'd still be at the "painstakingly pencilling with tongue out of my mouth, concentrating very hard" stage. Wow!

[Mark Paschke]

I am impressed! My skills with maths, cutting and folding bellows are clearly lacking, that's for sure. In the time you made a whole bellows, I'd still be at the "painstakingly pencilling with tongue out of my mouth, concentrating very hard" stage. Wow!Now that Ive done one I could really hammer one out. I cant believe people charge up to $800 for these, I found a guy to build them for $250 + shipping and I gotta say, it wasnt this type, it was the traditional type which would be seriously fast and easy. I spent longer debating whether I could do a zig-zag type and make it work but it was a no brainer once I cleared my head with a good nights sleep. Id make these for folks in my free time any time for $250! And the pros probably have templates and cutting machines. Theres 3 monotonous parts, cutting the stiffs, drawing the layout on the fabric, and gluing the stiffs in.

[Steven Tribe]

The real problem bellows are those were the cross section gets smaller as you approach the front standard (tapered) AND where the bellows has to be compressed to a thickness which will still allow a folding camera to fold.
Having a Billiard or Table Tennis table helps!

[Jim Galli]

I've done 3 smaller ones for 8X10's and a wee 5X7, and honestly the smaller the stiffeners are the harder it is to get everything right. But you're right, very do-able. Yours looks wonderful and that old camera can proudly take photos for another 100 years. Congrats.

[Mark Paschke]

The real problem bellows are those were the cross section gets smaller as you approach the front standard (tapered) AND where the bellows has to be compressed to a thickness which will still allow a folding camera to fold.
Having a Billiard or Table Tennis table helps!Yeah the billiard tables a must! That baby got a good work out as did my back. I would imagine the smaller tapered bellows would be trickier for sure, I would try this lil guy but the bellows are pristine. I dont even know what this camera is the printing is so small.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1223.jpg

[Mark Paschke]

I've done 3 smaller ones for 8X10's and a wee 5X7, and honestly the smaller the stiffeners are the harder it is to get everything right. But you're right, very do-able. Yours looks wonderful and that old camera can proudly take photos for another 100 years. Congrats.Hey Jim, I've got to get that Ilexpo from you as well as a large powerful bulb for the one I bought from Charley. I figure if I have 2 I will pick one to restore to match the camera and keep the other old. When you get a chance send me the details on if you pay-pal or what.

[Jimi]

I was trying to do a 8x10" tapered bellows, so I guess I jumped in at the deep end. :) The little camera looks like a Kodak Vest Pocket. Takes 127 film. If I remember correctly the photographer Paul Strand used one of these in the 1920s.

[Mark Paschke]

I was trying to do a 8x10" tapered bellows, so I guess I jumped in at the deep end. :) The little camera looks like a Kodak Vest Pocket. Takes 127 film. If I remember correctly the photographer Paul Strand used one of these in the 1920s.I cant even begin to figure out how to load film in the little kodak or I would have already snapped some pics with it.

[Jimi]

I've only handled one for a short while, I but I think the back is a whole part which comes off, but here's an official instruction:

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/kodak/kodak_vest_pocket/kodak_vest_pocket.htm

Well, I was wrong - it seems to be loading like an old ltm leica. :)

[Mark Paschke]

I've only handled one for a short while, I but I think the back is a whole part which comes off, but here's an official instruction:

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/kodak/kodak_vest_pocket/kodak_vest_pocket.htm

Well, I was wrong - it seems to be loading like an old ltm leica. :)Thank you so much, I popped her right open and found film in it.....unbelievable! Does anyone know the cost of developing pictures? I took photography back in High School and we developed our own pictures and I remember it being rather simple and inexpensive. Is it something you can get into for a hundred or two, or thousands. Also, what type of film is available for the Century? Where do you guys ( in the states) buy you films and such? I have a perfect Dark room in the basement.

[Jim Galli]

Lots of different schemes and apparati for developing film. A little late to the party because out of production now, but JOBO was a brand that you could start small and ultimately end up with rotating machines if you decided that's where your heart is. Buy a Jobo 2500 series tank (probably ebya) and some chems from Freestyle Photo in Los Angeles, and read a bit you'll be on your way. Another good forum that's 100% dedicated to keeping this whole film thing alive is APUG dot org. Lots of folks there to help you get that first batch done. Might want to save those that were in the camera until you've gotten your feet wet a bit in case there's important family images in there.

I inherited the little VPK (vest pocket Kodak) that my grandfather took with him to anapolis and it had film inside which I excitedly developed thinking I would find some important history. Only a single frame exposed and it was of a pine tree somewhere.:(

[Mark Paschke]

Well she's all down to the nitty gritty, took about an hour.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1269.jpg

Parts organized and the little Century tag held in with brads. A nice little tool for removing those are toenail clippers

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1270.jpg

The most difficult part of the entire camera is this piece and only because it had the most parts

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1265.jpg

I found some Original finish still intact! This is what the entire thing will look like soon. Waterlox has become hard to purchase in small quantities so it may take a week. Plenty of brass to polish and shoot in the mean time

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1268.jpg

[Mark Paschke]

Did they paint all the insides flat black from the factory, or did the photographers do this? Im not quite seeing the point of the black paint inside ( and its on all internal sides) the bellows prevent any reflections or light so was there a point to this? Im noticing on other cameras the black paint doesnt appear to be there.

[jp]

Mine has black paint throughout the inside, even where the bellows were attached. I think it deadens light leaks where wood comes together if it's not in the light path. While the bellows stop reflection, the film/plate is a reflector as well, so it's good to have everything in the camera black. Light bouncing off the film could illuminate unpainted materials and decrease contrast.

[Mark Paschke]

Thanks jp!
I just went back through your pics and its interesting how much our wooden pieces differ. You clear coated your wood correct? As in no staining, I saw the can of minwax but forgot to see if it was a tinted poly.

[jp]

I used clear poly. I was so impressed with the color of the wood after I chemical-stripped it, I decided clear was what I wanted. Wood is part of what makes the old cameras special and unique and I didn't want to hide it. The original finish had some minor tint to it, or maybe it was grime and cigarette smoke stain mixed in too, as it came off in a caramel colored sludge. My pics are from different cameras and light sources too, so don't focus on one image for an accurate color. DSC1464 onwards are all done with one camera and one strobe/umbrella so it's consistent from there.

[Mark Paschke]

I used clear poly. I was so impressed with the color of the wood after I chemical-stripped it, I decided clear was what I wanted. Wood is part of what makes the old cameras special and unique and I didn't want to hide it. The original finish had some minor tint to it, or maybe it was grime and cigarette smoke stain mixed in too, as it came off in a caramel colored sludge. My pics are from different cameras and light sources too, so don't focus on one image for an accurate color. DSC1464 onwards are all done with one camera and one strobe/umbrella so it's consistent from there.Im still nervous about chem-strip, I had an issue once with it and I now just sand. If you have one of these guys http://www.rockwelltoolsdirect.com/sonicrafter/hand-tool.html it takes almost no time and you get in every nook and cranny.

I was really, really....REALLY having a tough time deciding clear(ish) or convert back to old on this project. During sanding I was discovering a pretty decent swing in wood quality as well as species, this camera was screaming " Im going to bite you somewhere if you clear me!" I did a test run on a hidden piece and sure enough I could see unwanted splotch somewhere on the camera would surely rear its ugly head. Another deciding factor for me was the brass Hardware and I really think thats where these cameras excel. An older looking finish should make the brass really "pop"
The other aspect was the Black paint thats as prominent as the wood finish had me worried about contrasting new, old, new, old so it was instrumental in my decision as well.

So I proceeded to whip out the trusty "make it old juice" and I should know by tonight if I made the right decision, my secret weapon mix I discovered about 5 years ago, finally after decades of looking, takes about 72 hours and sometimes more to really know if I screwed up. So far so good but again some of the wood was a little "cheapish"

Heres everything sanded down, and oh did I make a mistake claiming that one piece was the hardest, I had completely forgot about the ultra nasty piece I had in another box. It took longer to deal with than the entire rest of the camera

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1276.jpg

This little guy kept me busy, still have to clean the zillion pieces of brass too, yuck.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1274.jpg

[Steven Tribe]

Oh yes! I forgot to mention that Centurys are constructed from a variety of wood types which only match because of colour staining or coloured lacquer (applied differentially I think). It is the front and obvious sides that are mahogany. Most of the matching stands have no mahogany at all.

I didn't expect you to procede with a complete strip!

[Mark Paschke]

Oh yes! I forgot to mention that Centurys are constructed from a variety of wood types which only match because of colour staining or coloured lacquer (applied differentially I think). It is the front and obvious sides that are mahogany. Most of the matching stands have no mahogany at all.

I didn't expect you to procede with a complete strip!The camera was screaming for a complete strip because it appear this camera was well used at one point in its life, so much so that certain areas werent only missing finish but had removed actual wood by rubbing it so much. I found what seems to be Mahogany, Cherry, and Im not sure if its Ash, Poplar or what on other pieces. Its old so its a little hard to tell. I did what they would have done originally, I just added about 100 years of patina just incase a modern stain wouldnt. I use Pro BAC wiping stains and Unfortunately I think I stepped beyond 1900 and landed somewhere in the mid 1800's :)

[Jim Galli]

Impressive work Mark. You DO realize this back is for wet plate photos? You focus in the ground glass side, then slide the plate section over with the prepared plate inside and ready, and expose. Film backs will also fit this camera. Wet plate is very beautiful and there are folks in Oregon who give instruction.

[Steven Tribe]

And the wet plate sliding back explains the staining around the rear.

[Mark Paschke]

Impressive work Mark. You DO realize this back is for wet plate photos? You focus in the ground glass side, then slide the plate section over with the prepared plate inside and ready, and expose. Film backs will also fit this camera. Wet plate is very beautiful and there are folks in Oregon who give instruction.I most certainly need to hook up with these instructors. Im a little concerned about the felt repairs I have to make since it appears they were slightly raised

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1275-1.jpg

[goamules]

Too late for this reply to your question (just a day or so ago "what about staining?") but in the old days I believe most wood workers using mahogany used Potassium Dichromate (http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=27343) to oxidize the wood. I've been using it and it looks exactly like the original finish. When matched with a period oil finish it looks....correct. But it is quite toxic so anyone wanting to use it better check the MSDS sheet.

[Mark Paschke]

Oh crap guys, Ive had the Camera back together for a couple days and forgot to take some pics until I got a PM from a wonderful forum member thats helping me with my Voightlander stop.

I cant figure out how to take acurate pics in our house but these are close, looks more grained and a tad Darker in real life.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1309.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1313.jpg

And with a flash, I will try and get better pics when I finish the wet plate piece

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1289.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1297.jpg

[Jim Galli]

Oh crap guys, Ive had the Camera back together for a couple days and forgot to take some pics until I got a PM from a wonderful forum member thats helping me with my Voightlander stop.

I cant figure out how to take acurate pics in our house but these are close, looks more grained and a tad Darker in real life.


DOH!! Just broke the tenth commandment. ;)

[BarryS]

Wow--it looks great! You did an outstanding job--I'm really impressed with the finish.

[ic-racer]

Looks fantastic!

[Mark Paschke]

Thanks guys, I really like it as do friends when they come by and visit, they cant believe the transformation and I have to admit I was a little suprised as well, the added height of the bellows and the even finish really brought back the class and simplicity of these old beasts. Hope I can take a picture with it, but I will need help for sure. Need to find the Large format Gurus of this area!

[Peter Gomena]

Fabulous!

Peter Gomena

[Mark Paschke]

Oh, I finished putting together the last of her yesterday, no extra parts Yeah! I need to try and grind or sandblast my own glass or go buy a peice of frosted, I have the 7x7 glass to try my hand at ground glass

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1350.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1348.jpg

[Jim C.]

Excellent job mark !

[msk2193]

Congratulations on a wonderful restoration job.

[dlin]

Fabulous restoration job!

[Mark Paschke]

Yeah it was enjoyable! I took it by a great guy named Steve Anchells today and it was a little older than what he shoots with but he gave me a nice tour of his dark room and such and went through some stuff to get the ball rolling on taking a picture. Doesnt look like any workshops are going on around here so I have to experiment on my own for now

[Michael Roberts]

The camera looks amazing, Mark. Thanks for sharing.

[Heywood]

Nice work on the cam, I have the same one only i'm starting in much worse shape. I wanted to ask a question about the brass.
All the exposed brass on mine is dark, I don't mean it's turned black from too much polishing as someone mentioned, these have a surface layer of 100+ years of skin oils, dirt, no doubt nicotine and who knows what else.
I started with a mild household cleaner but that didn't work, even using an electric toothbrush had no effect. Can you share how you cleaned your brass and if anyone knows how to clean mine I'd much appreciate it if you can tell me.

[Louis Pacilla]

Heywood

Try" Wrights Brass Polish" (grocery store) & 0000 steel wool or finer if available. Don't get carried away with the steel wool let the Chemical do it's work.

It will do the job. Guaranteed .

[Jim C.]

Heywood, Brasso is another to try, it contains a mild abrasive and ammonia,
Home depot has it. Worked really well on the brass parts of my 5x7 2D.

[Mark Paschke]

I soaked alot of mine in a citrus cleaner, then moved to a Ammonia bath, then brasso. some of my brass was really tough to clean, this was the longest part of what I did, my guess is I spent an 8 hour day on it. If you have alot of Wet plate/print holders with stuck "slides" or "sliding exposure covers" like I did, I found something that gets those back to new as well if you want to know

[Heywood]

I have some brasso, I tried that already using an electric toothbrush. Afterward I googled
how to clean tarnished brass" and got all kinds of differing opinions. I tried letting it soak in lemon juice, i tried a "green" natural cleaner, i tried it with no-green. I have a dremel tool that has buffing wheels thats mostly for polishing, I am hesitant to try it because i worry if it heats it will distort the brass. I'll try all your recommendations, maybe post a pic of a "before"

[goamules]

I too have used citric and vinegar acids, but you must be cautious - it will leach out the copper and then basically plate it back onto the surface. In other words you have to know what you're doing or your brass will end up looking like copper. You can use a pack of lemonade flavor Kool-aid in about a half gallon of water, and let them soak, but again, you need to do it just long enough to get the black to start being able to rub off.

I like Brasso a lot. It will get through that black patina, but it takes firm rubbing.

[Jim C.]

Heywood - If it's real tarnish, Brasso or any other brass compatible cleaner will take care of it
pretty quickly, now if it's that difficult to remove the tarnish from the brass parts
I suggest a soak in lacquer thinner before Brasso, the lacquer thinner will remove any
old finish that may be on there. I used a polyethylene ( HDPE ) or a polypropylene ( PP )
shoe box to soak my parts in lacquer thinner over night, the lid of the plastic shoe box
keeps the fumes and evaporation at bay.

[Mark Paschke]

Heywood - If it's real tarnish, Brasso or any other brass compatible cleaner will take care of it
pretty quickly, now if it's that difficult to remove the tarnish from the brass parts
I suggest a soak in lacquer thinner before Brasso, the lacquer thinner will remove any
old finish that may be on there. I used a polyethylene ( HDPE ) or a polypropylene ( PP )
shoe box to soak my parts in lacquer thinner over night, the lid of the plastic shoe box
keeps the fumes and evaporation at bay.Excellent advice on laquer thinner, the other tool I found really handy is the dremel accessory http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=403 for the really nasty black, thick stuff

[Mark Paschke]

Got my waterhouse stops patterns from Louis ( Thanks Louis) Im wondering what people use to make these incase I ever shoot film. The wet plate people are telling me I probably wont need them for wet plate. The camera heads to Portland Tuesday to shoot some wetplate and I would like to make the stops before then incase we find we do need them

[Jim C.]

Excellent advice on laquer thinner, the other tool I found really handy is the dremel accessory http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=403 for the really nasty black, thick stuff

I prefer these Scotch Brite wheels to the nylon bristle wheels -

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=511E

the gray one is great for heavy duty buildups, never use the tan one
except for trying to remove rust, used it on a packard shutter I was repairing.

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=512E

These are good for final buff before polishing.

Too bad Dremel doesn't offer these in bulk packs, they wear down pretty quick
depending on how aggressive you bear down on them, wear eye protection,
since they shed.

[Mark Paschke]

I prefer these Scotch Brite wheels to the nylon bristle wheels -

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=511E

the gray one is great for heavy duty buildups, never use the tan one
except for trying to remove rust, used it on a packard shutter I was repairing.

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=512E

These are good for final buff before polishing.

Too bad Dremel doesn't offer these in bulk packs, they wear down pretty quick
depending on how aggressive you bear down on them, wear eye protection,
since they shed.Oh those guys look nice! Yeah, I had 3 of the nylon brushes stuffed in my Dremel accessories box for some reason and used 2 of them on my nasty stuff.

Im trying olive oil instead of laquer as a protectant as of now, I shot some stuff with laquer and didnt like the appearance, olive oil appears to look good, not sure how long it lasts.

[Heywood]

I too have used citric and vinegar acids, but you must be cautious - it will leach out the copper and then basically plate it back onto the surface. In other words you have to know what you're doing or your brass will end up looking like copper. You can use a pack of lemonade flavor Kool-aid in about a half gallon of water, and let them soak, but again, you need to do it just long enough to get the black to start being able to rub off.

I like Brasso a lot. It will get through that black patina, but it takes firm rubbing.

I read this just in time......almost

I looked in the tray and saw that the black crust of dirt was still on them so i plucked one out and it just fell away. I probably had them soaking for 2 hours at that point in a very high concentration of lemon juice.

They still look like brass, just not as yellowy brass as you'd expect. I'll just have to think of it as lending character to the camera.

After a polishing with brasso & a buffing with the dremel i'll apply a little silicone to inhibit tarnishing & remount the hardware.

[goamules]

I read this just in time......almost

I looked in the tray and saw that the black crust of dirt was still on them so i plucked one out and it just fell away. I probably had them soaking for 2 hours at that point in a very high concentration of lemon juice.

They still look like brass, just not as yellowy brass as you'd expect. I'll just have to think of it as lending character to the camera.

After a polishing with brasso & a buffing with the dremel i'll apply a little silicone to inhibit tarnishing & remount the hardware.

I'm glad you caught it. Copper looks nice too! That's why I keep commenting on this post, I've seen several mistakes or things I would recommend against (and have), but the advice sometimes seems ignored. For the record, what I do:

- Don't refinish cameras that have predominately a decent original finish, but if you do:
- Use Potassium Dichromate if you want an original "stain" for Mahogany
- Use an oil finish like Tung Oil
- Don't use power tools (Or even a dremel) to polish brass
- If you use acid/chemical brass cleaners, be careful for "copper plating" problem
- Use a gentle brass preservative, like wax, if you don't want to do a proper, period lacquer

[Mark Paschke]

I'm glad you caught it. Copper looks nice too! That's why I keep commenting on this post, I've seen several mistakes or things I would recommend against (and have), but the advice sometimes seems ignored. For the record, what I do:

- Don't refinish cameras that have predominately a decent original finish, but if you do:
- Use Potassium Dichromate if you want an original "stain" for Mahogany
- Use an oil finish like Tung Oil
- Don't use power tools (Or even a dremel) to polish brass
- If you use acid/chemical brass cleaners, be careful for "copper plating" problem
- Use a gentle brass preservative, like wax, if you don't want to do a proper, period lacquerThanks for the smile this post produced! I would love to hear about the several mistakes that were made during this restore, you can skip the "prodominately decent original finsh" remark since this camera was in terrible shape. The camera was used so much that not only had the lacquer been worn off in multiple areas, the wood had been literally rubbed off enough that feathered hand sanding was needed instead of sonic means. I should have taken more close-ups of the damage but one needs not look to hard to see the shape of this camera was rough mixed with stored in a damp basement for 40 years.

Mix this with the fact this camera is going to be used extensively in Oregon where the climate is less than hospitable mixing saltwater mist, rain and sun possibilities within seconds. In other words, it needs to be tough and able to take the constant handling on the beaches of Oregon. The brass cleaning on this camera requires a complete teardown considering every nook and cranny has brass attached, if someone likes splotchy, scratched, well used antique look, more power to them, I dont want to store my camera in a closet.

Now if you're refering to my methods of staining and original finishes lets just say I've been around the block a few times and actually used a product that was available in the period of this camera and it out performs lacquer 10 fold, its Tung oil and can be easily recoated anytime, anywhere in the same fashion it was applied 100 years ago, I have used this in 150 year old home restorations http://www.waterlox.com/about/
As far as using potassium dichromate, Im not a fan of hoping I getting water based mixtures on 110 year old wood right and waiting 12 hours to find out and waiting another 24 hours to start a 72+ hour process and hope for the best. Im a big fan of expensive oils. Im going to use what I have used on countless projects were the comments have always been " How did you do that, oh my lord, I've never seen anything like that" Not that theres anything wrong with anyones methods, but to claim one persons proven results used in multi million dollar restorations, and on countless antiques as a "mistake" is chuckle inducing. These cameras hold no real value other than sentimental, its amazing the amount of these cameras were so cherished that people painted them with lead filled oil based paints which I might claim is a mistake if I actually owned it. So far my responses from photographers who actually perform period photography have been as expected when seeing the camera in real life, the comments would be completely different had I wasted my time with restoration oils

Maybe the mistakes were in the way the brass was cleaned, pretty simple, Lacquer thinner or xylene dip, citrus dip, ammonia dip and wipe with brasso works phenominally. If the brass has thick corrosion, scale, dirt buildup the use of a dremel is a no brainer, Dremels have this cool little feature called a speed controller and they come with multiple non abrasive tools that work fantastically in deep threads which are prominent features on this particular camera, I never once used a dremel to "polish" my brass which I could have with absolute ease, but I did hammer home on the tough stuff and restored it to a silky smooth finish in the end. Im not a fan of lacquer. Its cheap and easily flaked or rubbed off, I use something called olive oil so I can choose the right amount of even patina I desire then pop on a protective coating. I actually dunked one of the hidden brass peices in citrus cleaner as well as ammonia for hours, still looks like brass to me!

[goamules]

I just skimmed all the above, but it sounds like you are happy with your results. I just wanted to point out other methods and "gotchas". You didn't know much about cameras when you started asking this board for advice. We gave it.

[Heywood]

Well it turned out ok after all. It was odd that it had a somewhat copper look to it but i used the polish, let it dry & when i removed it I had beautiful yellow brass. I gave all the pieces a finishing touch with some silicone, i didn't wanna lacquer it and I suppose this isn't really a restoration per se but trying to make it into a good looking working camera.

I attached a before, I didn't think to take one of it before i began disassembly and i attached an after. I'm not going to fill any scratches or apply new varnish, i like that it has some character.

[Mark Paschke]

Congrats Heywood!
Its pretty hard to hurt your brass, I have abused brass really bad and it always polishes nicely. Not sure about todays brass.

[Mark Paschke]

Well yesterday the ole girl got taken for a spin in Portland with a gentleman named Ray ( I wont butcher spelling his last name by guessing) but he was listed in this thread earlier if Im not mistaken.

What a hoot! great guy, made you feel like you had been taking wet-plates your whole life. Great teacher, cant praise him enough. The lens holder needs some serious cleaning or I need to restore the " slide door " because its releasing dust onto the print.......need to get on it my wet-plate starter set is on its way! Heres some pics of her first pics in over 40 years and probably first on wet-plate in 100ish

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1383.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1385.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1388.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1384.jpg

[Mark Paschke]

I thought someone had referred Ray to me in this thread but maybe not, cant seem to find it.....this is Ray http://www.raybidegain.com/servlet/the-template/about/Page I cant praise his teaching skills enough

[Mark Paschke]

Well the ole camera and I got a workout for Christmas, people were running in and out and I was running up and down the stairs, in and out of the makeshift darkroom. These are really hard to take pictures of considering theyre on glass and lighting is terrible but here they are as best asI can shoot them with a digital camera

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1433.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1443.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1444.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1436.jpg

[Mark Paschke]

Im not really liking the varnish aspect of this, does anyone spray on varnish?


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/IMG_1437.jpg

[Steven Tribe]

Well, what nice original photos of Jesse James and "Doc" Holliday you have found!

[Mark Paschke]

Well, what nice original photos of Jesse James and "Doc" Holliday you have found!Lol and I just noticed I took those pictures on top of another picture shot on black glass so youre actually seeing a double negative of sorts, I was wondering why they looked a little weird

[Steven Tribe]

I think these shots have great atmosphere: perhaps I should have a go at this alternative emulsion activity.

[jp]

Cool; thanks for posting!

[Mark Paschke]

I think these shots have great atmosphere: perhaps I should have a go at this alternative emulsion activity.Its a real hoot, pretty easy, quick and fun. The Varnishing part is a little bit on the not so fun part only because it really changes what seems to be a perfect shot. It darkens the negative substantially

[Mark Paschke]

This things getting a real workout, inside, outside.......you name it sun, rain I am up to over 20 pictures with 4.5 screw ups so far 2 on the subjects and 2.5 clearly on something I did wrong.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/firegroupsmall-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/steamtractorsmall.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/ken_edited2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/GoBigRed/laila62small.jpg

I actually have a couple nudes of this wonderful women, she was so excited how the pics were coming out the clothes started fly off!! They are classy nudes, wasnt sure if they could be posted here

[Ramiro Elena]

There's a thread for Nudes. You should post them right away :D

[Liam:]

There's a thread for Nudes. You should post them right away :D

Agreed :)

Didn't realise how good glass plates look (off to look for more images) The end of film might be a good thing...

[Mark Paschke]

Got a PM from someone curious about my camera so I figured I would pull up a silly lil video I made a couple years ago after word got around and everyone wanted their picture taken! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb0Aub9EGV0&feature=relmfu I had completely forgot to update this thread

[Peter De Smidt]

I'm finishing up getting my No. 7 up-and-running. In my case, it's more a thorough cleaning and tightening everything up, along with a bellows replacement. Even though my restoration isn't as extreme, I really enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for posting it!

[Tin Can]

I have a Century that is similar with no back. I will be mounting a modern 8x10 slider to it. I bought the camera here last year. I cannot make the focus knob work as I think it should. It is exactly as the this post.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?69150-Restoration-of-Century-Grand-Studio-Opinions-welcome!&p=656827&viewfull=1#post656827

I believe you loosen that central large knob and slide the back to close focus, then tighten it down, then the gears under the knob allow a back and forth movement to fine focus.

Mine won't fine focus, it's either too tight or too loose. It may be missing a part, as the seller had worked on the camera. I have tried a few things and was about to post about it.

[Peter De Smidt]

Mine's not like that. The middle vertical knob just locks the movement. The knobs on the side move the standard forward and back. There's no special "fine focus" adjustment.

[Tin Can]

I am thinking of adding an Acme 5 start focus thread. This one is not so nice at the moment. I can 'hide' the screw next to the center frame.

[Mark Paschke]

I'm finishing up getting my No. 7 up-and-running. In my case, it's more a thorough cleaning and tightening everything up, along with a bellows replacement. Even though my restoration isn't as extreme, I really enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for posting it!Wow I figured this thread was long gone years ago. The ole girl hasn't shot a picture in a while but she got a good workout for several years. It seems these days everyones doing wet plate or iPhones have wet plate apps and so fourth so some of the excitement seems to have wore off. I'm probably up to 100+ plates shot with her as now, I still get calls here and there but I kind of tell people they really need to get a large group so we can use up the chemicals. Still takes pristine pictures that blow everybody's minds on how nice they look.

[Tin Can]

It's the latest thing we keep looking back.

Why not, what changes with these cameras within our short time.

[Tracy Storer]

Randy, I have seen several cameras with a knob like that that DOES focus as a fine-focus, there is a spiral cam groove cut into the bottom of the knob.
T


I have a Century that is similar with no back. I will be mounting a modern 8x10 slider to it. I bought the camera here last year. I cannot make the focus knob work as I think it should. It is exactly as the this post.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?69150-Restoration-of-Century-Grand-Studio-Opinions-welcome!&p=656827&viewfull=1#post656827

I believe you loosen that central large knob and slide the back to close focus, then tighten it down, then the gears under the knob allow a back and forth movement to fine focus.

Mine won't fine focus, it's either too tight or too loose. It may be missing a part, as the seller had worked on the camera. I have tried a few things and was about to post about it.

[Tin Can]

Randy, I have seen several cameras with a knob like that that DOES focus as a fine-focus, there is a spiral cam groove cut into the bottom of the knob.
T

This one has sheet metal rack and pinion under the knob, which could provide about an inch of fine focus. Perhaps it never worked well as later versions went to rack and pinion. And earlier versions had nothing, I believe. I have not seen the version you describe.

I will shoot pictures of it next time I work on it.