Ilford Delta 100 processed for N-5

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

I want to use Ilford Delta 100 processed for N-5 for night photography. Twenty some years ago old Oliver Gagliani demonstrated to me and others how he processed Tri-X in a Pyrocatechin for a N-5. Does anyone know how to to his to a modern film like Delta 100 and to which film speed to expose?

[Jim Noel]

The method used by Oliver and also by Ray McSavaney was designed for use with traditional grained films, not flat grain films. I have a dtrong suspicion that it will not work well. Go back to Tri-X, HP5+ and you are more likely to bew successful.
Another alternative if you can get it is to use Fuji Acros with its very long exposure w/o reciprocity concerns.

[BarryS]

I suggest you buy a copy of Andrew Sanderson's Night Photography. It's out of print, but is an excellent resource, and copies are readily available. I think you can probably get better results without such an extreme contraction. Using a Pyro developer is a great start--it should help rein in the bright highlights.

[willwilson]

You can do a N-5 development with Delta 100. Not my first choice but it will work. Make sure you do plenty of testing. Extreme development like this needs to be fairly precise.

I use Delta 100 because of its high dynamic range, which prevents me from having to do crazy things like N-5.

test test test.

[ki6mf]

The issue that you will have to test for is how weak to make the developer. You should use very gentle agitation. The problem is keep highlights from developing to much while at the same time develop long enough to let the shadows come up. You may want to take sacrificial film and experiment. I personally use D 76 20% developer and 80% water with 2 minutes between very very very agitation, 15 minutes of development time. Sometimes if there is more than N-5 I have let the developer sit for several extra minutes with no agitation to help the shadows come up. The point is to test with varying combination to see what result that works for you.

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

Thanks for all the good advice. An other question: has anyone processed Delta 100 in D-23 or D-23 with intermediate water bath?

[Ron Marshall]

Look into semi-stand developing.

Try constant agitation for the first minute with full strength developer, then dump and use very dilute developer with minimal agitation.

[jim kitchen]

Dear Gudmundur,

You might try these developer times with HC110 as a starting point for your exercise, although I used HP5+, where I found this information in a few of my very, very old notes, while testing films and developers many years ago. I think they were notes from a Bruce Barnbaum workshop about twenty years ago, too... :)

The developer strength and times worked well, but as with any different film emulsion, you should experiment with these times. I would not change the dilutions, or the agitation milestones, but adjust the development times if required. You could also experiment with a two bath developer dilution, where you would use the higher strength dilution for a very short duration to boost the lower zones initially, and the transfer the negatives to the weaker developer dilutions to control the highlights...

Again, experimentation with this process and, or another two-bath developer might give you a solution, too.


Ilford HP5+ compensating development times rated at ISO 250, developed at 68 Degrees Fahrenheit (20 Degrees Celsius)…

Please note: The compensating development times require three stops more exposure compared to normal exposure calculations, and please note the change in H2O volume for N-3.


Normal: 6.5 minutes, 1 part stock solution from concentrate to 7.5 parts H2O, agitate continuously for first minute, then for first 15 seconds each additional minute.

N-1: 4.5 minutes, 1 part stock solution from concentrate to 7.5 parts H2O, agitate continuously for first minute, then for first 15 seconds each additional minute.

N-2: 3.25 minutes, 1 part stock solution from concentrate to 7.5 parts H2O, agitate continuously for first minute, then for first 15 seconds each additional minute.

N-3: 4.25 minutes, 1 part stock solution from concentrate to 17.5 parts H2O, agitate continuously for first minute, then for first 15 seconds each additional minute.


A significant reduction in contrast will occur with the following dilutions and development times:

Please note: The changes while using N-7...

N-4: 22.0 minutes, 1 part stock solution from concentrate to 45 parts H2O, agitate continuously for first minute, then for first 15 seconds each additional minute.

N-5: 15.5 minutes, 1 part stock solution from concentrate to 45 parts H2O, agitate continuously for first minute, then for first 15 seconds each additional minute.

N-6: 11.5 minutes, 1 part stock solution from concentrate to 45 parts H2O, agitate continuously for first minute, then for first 15 seconds each additional minute.

N-7: 10.0 minutes, 1 part stock solution from concentrate to 45 parts H2O, agitate continuously for first 30 seconds, then for first 15 seconds at one minute, two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, six minutes, and finally the last agitation at eight minutes.



jim k

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

Many thanks to you all and especially to Jim Kitchen to take time to review his old notes and transfer them all to this page.

[David Hedley]

Ilford Delta 100 is my 'standard' film, and I have taken it to N-2 in PMK Pyro - for that contraction, I use EI25 and develop for 7 minutes in PMK Pyro. For N-5, I'd try EIs of 10 or 12 to begin with. Highly dilute Rodinal (1:100 or 1:200) with reduced / minimal agitation might work well as a developer.

[bob carnie]

Hi Jim and others

A good friend of mine is starting a night photography project.
Currently we are working on a Jobo with PMK and HP5 sheet film
Rating is approx 200 ISo at time of exposure, and he would of course give brackets for the slow exposure times.
I am using 68 degree PMK two devevelopments of 7 min each, we are getting what I consider good results.

Jim ,
with more exposure at his end how far could I drop the times if now I have a combined time of 14 min, is cutting it in half a possibility.
I also wonder since I am using rotary , is this causing the highlights to go to far.
I have a complete sink line with 4x5 holders and I could mix a one shot Dev and do a slower type , or semi stand development.
I have seen Sandy Kings Pyrocat negs, and actually a few other workers negs with Pyrocat with semi stand and they were outstanding.

Do you think that maybe I would be chasing my tale using PMK and a rotary system If I am trying to suck the life into the shadows , but still keep good highlight detail I am thinking for this particular night photography project?


thanks Bob

[jim kitchen]

Dear Bob,

I have an answer, but I must write it sensibly first, so that I understand it without getting confused... :)

Please wait a day or two, because I have a couple of examples that I processed a few years back, and where I must find the original files to write too. My first inclination is to write to David's PMK suggestion with the lower ISO value and to use minimal agitation and standing development, but I do know that I developed a negative with standing development and minimal agitation, and I developed a negative where I used rotational development with a weakened dilution in the JOBO. I just need to find them, since the negatives and their files are archived.

These were experimentations, and I know that they were not perfect, but the finished negatives forced me to exercise a few more printing corrections than I am accustomed to doing, to obtain the desired result.

jim k

[jim kitchen]

Dear Bob,

I jumped to the front of the line when I mentioned that I had an answer for you, but I am not a PYRO user nor have I ever experimented with PYRO, so using my information could be moot. However, I did use HC110 for semi-standing development earlier but I now use XTOL for continuous development to accomplish reduced highlights in the exposed negative. My earlier negatives were designed to print on silver paper in the darkroom, and to not use a scanner, where I now develop my most recent negatives to use with a scanning device. The negatives presented below were developed at N-4, and N-5 to accommodate the exposure range I recorded prior to exposing the negative, and I indirectly modified the ISO value to capture more light upon the film by extending the exposure time. The last negative must be placed in a separate post, because we have a total image limitation, where the negative illustrates N-6 semi-standing development. I do believe that one could work with PYRO and create a development process that creates a negative of equal or better quality compared to the compensating methods I use, but experimentation would surely produce an acceptable answer.

I know that these compensating development methods work, because I freely process negatives using earlier tested development times, discovered through experimentation, and refactoring. I do not doubt that true divided development works as effectively or more effectively too, compared to semi-stand development and, or diluted developers with continuous agitation, but I cannot speak to that development process because I have not done it.

My mindset, when I capture any image, is to make certain that I retrieve all the scenes information within the finished negative that I wish to print, develop the negative according to the process I am familiar with, and print the image I saw in my head when I exposed the negative. I do not print a straight print from the negative nor do I believe that a straight print illustrates any scene properly. Darkroom skills will surely be put to the test with a negative that employed compensating development, but I think that happens to be the best part of producing a finished image.

Anyway, I digress, so to possibly answer your question, I do believe that you will receive a better answer from the folks that are constant users of PYRO developers and, or the true divided developer process…

jim k


The following images simply illustrate the raw negative and the processed print for comparative reasons.


The first image is a Toronto night scene where the FP4 negative received N-4 semi-standing development in HC110.


http://largeformatgroupimages.jimkitchen.ca/images/78101101_rgb.jpg


http://largeformatgroupimages.jimkitchen.ca/images/78101101_bw.jpg


The second negative was TMY processed to N-5 continuous development in XTOL.


http://largeformatgroupimages.jimkitchen.ca/images/08010501_rgb.jpg


http://largeformatgroupimages.jimkitchen.ca/images/08010501_bw.jpg

[jim kitchen]

Attached is the last negative example... :)

jim k


The third negative was HP5+ processed to N-6 semi-standing development in HC110.


http://largeformatgroupimages.jimkitchen.ca/images/06072404_rgb.jpg


http://largeformatgroupimages.jimkitchen.ca/images/06072404_bw.jpg