Planning Trip to Deathvalley, Sierra, Yosemite Nat Parks, need advise

[mentalcrisis00]

Hey All

I'm trying to plan the logistics for a December trip to Deathvalley, Sierra, and Yosemite National Parks. Basically my plan is to fly into Vegas for $240 round trip, then rent a car for $150 a week, then drive 3.5 hours to Deathvalley, probably go up route 95 unless I find a back road to crosses the DV then get to 395 to Sierra and Yosemite.

I have never been out that way but I've seen alot of work from the area including stuff by Ansel Adams and it's really inspiring stuff. To be able to hit DV, Sierra, and Yosemite in one trip would be great. Can anyone familiar with the area tell me if this would be a feasible idea? Or if anyone has some suggestions that will keep me from disaster that would be great.

I'm going to be taking my Wista DX in a backpack (as carry on) and my LL Bean hiking pack with small tent, sleeping bag, and other survival gear I generally take when I go camping and hiking. Of course plenty of food and water. Anything else I should consider please let me know. I'm thinking about Dec 24th to Jan 4-11 as a time frame.

[J Ney]

Not to burst your bubble but you are going to have a hard time getting from the east side of the Sierras / DV to Yosemite in December. Hwy 120 will likely be closed (if it hasn't closed already) and you'd be forced into a huge detour around the Sierras.

Don't fret, though... there is more than enough in that area to fill a life time of shooting (let alone a week).

A couple of tips...
- rent a high-clearance vehicle for Death Valley so you aren't confined to pavement
- try to get into the Panamint mts near DV as it provides a nice change from the valley floor
- check which roads are open that can lead you up to some of the alpine lakes in the eastern Sierras (eg: Lake Sabrina, South Lake, etc...)
- Take a look at the June Lake area and of course the standard locales of Mono Lake, etc...


My other tip would really be to stay loose & flexible during the time (which works well if you're camping). I would maybe come up with a list of 4 or 5 places to hit up but then play the rest by ear.

Have a blast!!!!!

[J Ney]

Hey All

I'm thinking about Dec 24th to Jan 4-11 as a time frame.

Just so you're not surprised, Death Valley will be BUSY!!!!!! I think that is probably their busiest time of year. Just reinforces my previous suggestion to get a high-clearance vehicle and get the hell off the roads and away from the crowds!

If possible in DV, try to hit up the Racetrack at sunrise (note, it takes a long time to get out there on an extremely wash-boarded road and I'd suggest camping as close as possible the night before), the Eureka dunes are also out of the way enough as to not be busy.
If you do plan on shooting dunes, it is ideal to shoot at sunrise rather than sunset as you don't have a day of footprints in the sand to contend with.

[mentalcrisis00]

Not to burst your bubble but you are going to have a hard time getting from the east side of the Sierras / DV to Yosemite in December. Hwy 120 will likely be closed (if it hasn't closed already) and you'd be forced into a huge detour around the Sierras.

Don't worry about bursting my bubble, that is great information! I wouldn't have known otherwise, nothing is set in stone yet. All I know is that I want to go. I did figure on camping the entire time for cost reasons and just because I prefer to rather than staying in a hotel.

Thanks for the suggested locals, I do want to hit the less touristy places for sure. Dunes would be nice because it would be drastically different from the mountainous forest covered landscapes I usually photograph.

Anyone know of any unforeseeable problems with taking 4x5 film or camera on a plane? Should I put film in my checked baggage?

[Preston]

Tioga Pass is currently closed, and with a storm expected this coming weekend, it will likely be closed for the winter. If you are in the DV area, and you really want to go to Yosemite, you can cross the range at Walker Pass (CA 178). it will dump you out on CA 99 at Bakerfield. You would then go north to Yosemite. Speaking from experience: It is a very long drive, and during the holidaze, 99 will be a zoo.

If you decide to hit the backroads in DV, find someone in another vehicle to team up with. If you are alone, and have a break down, you may wind up in deep s**t.

I agree with Mr Ney; stay flexible. The weather will likely be a governing factor, so you may, or may not be able to access some areas due to snow and/or flash flood warnings.

The higher reaches of the Sierra East Side canyons may be inaccessible. However, places such as the Alabama Hills, and other high desert areas between 395 and the base of the Sierra may be snow-free, and are fun to explore.

The areas north of Bishop, such as Rock Creek, Convict Lake, June Lake, Bodie, and the Mono Lake area are gorgeous that time of year. You'll have to pay close attention to weather forecasts and current and expected road conditions because these places are at a much higher elevation than the lower reaches of Owens Valley.

Flexibility really is the key. Have fun!

--P

[John Jarosz]

Do not put film into checked luggage.

Hand carry the film, put it thru the x-ray and you should be good to go. Try to stay in sight of your film to make sure some idiot doesn't open the box.

3 or 4 passes thru carry-on x-ray won't hurt the film. If they x-ray your checked baggage it will be with a MUCH higher dose of x-rays and your film will be toast.

[Richard Raymond]

Ray,
Good luck with your trip. Sounds like a nice adventure. If you keep Yosemite on your agenda make sure that you get chains with the rental. They may be required depending on snow conditions. If not available with the rental then find out where you can buy them in Las Vegas. The usual auto parts stores may have them. Give them a call once you have more information.
Depending on time of day that you arrive I would recommend an overnight stay in Las Vegas on arrival and the night before departure on the return flight. This will allow you to get your trip organized at this end.
Plenty of opportunities for camping. Make sure that you bring cold weather gear. A zero degree bag should do if you have a good pad. (Also depends on whether you sleep cold or hot.)
Las Vegas to Death Valley. I would recommend going out the 160 toward Pahrump and then heading west to Shoshone. This will bring you into the valley at the south end. You can travel north to Bad Water, Furnace Creek and camp either at Furnace Creek or Stove Pipe Wells by the dunes. As this is your first trip I would not go too far off road. See the main sights and have more time for photography. Catch the sunrise over the dunes, etc.
DV to Eastern Sierras is out the 190. Stops in Lone Pine and Alabama Hills to get the mountains and sandstone. Head north to Bishop if you are interested in shooting winter ... snow, snow on trees, etc. There are camping areas in Big Pine. I would recommend that you head south from Lone Pine area and go south on the 395 to Indian Wells and take the 178 to 155 south of Lake Isabella and then over to the western Sierras.
From there it is up to Fresno and then the 41 into the south entrance to Yosemite. A few days there and then head north and over the 308 back to the east side of the Sierras. Then it is south to Mono Lake, Bishop, Lone Pine and back east through Death Valley.
Nice loop and can be done with the 2 weeks you gave and still have time for photos.
Best regards,
Ric

[Drew Wiley]

A bit ambitious trying to do both the east and west side of the Sierras, unless you like
a lot of boring freeway driving, with the potential for dangerous tule fog in the Central
Valley in between. There's more than enough to see in just Death Valley and along the
eastern Sierra. But if weather permits it's not a terrible drive up Hwwy 395 past the
eastern edge of Lk Tahoe, then back down. Weather can change rapidly, so as everyone has been already noting, carry a warm sleeping bag, lots of extra food and
water, and maybe chains too. I personally think you'll get a bigger bang for the buck
just sticking with the east side of the mountains. Some of the side canyon are often
still open, up to Whitney Portal, Aspendell above Bishop, and to Mammoth Mtn.

[Merg Ross]

I agree with Drew, leave Yosemite for another trip. There is so much to see and photograph on the eastern side, and 395 is really special in the winter; Mono Lake, June Lake Loop, Alabama Hills, maybe Bodie if you have an interest in ghost towns, and the weather permits.

To repeat what others have mentioned, take chains, plenty of food and cold weather gear. I have been in Bridgeport in the winter and experienced sub-zero temperatures.

Have fun and be safe!

[Jim Galli]

All very good suggestions so far. The pictures are where you find them. The Ancient Bristlecone forest is a fine extreme to death valley within a very few miles relative to a birds flight. You can be below sea level and climb to 11,000 + if weather permits. I've been up in the Britlecones in January on a dry year. Brisk and beautiful. If there have been storms, probably best to not try that. The road is good for a really long way up the mountain.

Your bigger problem is, it's all so beautiful, you'll want to drive less and shoot more. Distances eat up valuable time.

[Hugo Zhang]

Jim,

Bristlecone is one of my favorite and I stayed for five nights at Crooked Creek, a sort of university station, some 10 years ago attending a workshop.

I always dream of going up there and spend at least a few days, but could not find any information about lodging at Crooked Creek again. I understand there is no camping nearby. Any suggestions?

Hugo

[Drew Wiley]

It would be a rare winter that the road to the bristlecones would be open past Sherwin
Grove, if at all. Generally you'd have to ski in - a pretty ambitious project clear back
to Patriarch Grove where the classic shots are. (Not technically hard, since you just
follow the ridge road, where avalanches are a minimal hazard). Haven't done that kind
of trip with a big view camera since I was quite a bit younger. Cross-country ski travel
with a hundred pound pack has it's cheap thrills, especially if you're a Klutz on skis like
me! I've since resorted to snowshoes and day excursions. Some winters the White Mtns are fairly bare. Last year when I flew over, the snow looked pretty deep.

[Jim Galli]

Jim,

Bristlecone is one of my favorite and I stayed for five nights at Crooked Creek, a sort of university station, some 10 years ago attending a workshop.

I always dream of going up there and spend at least a few days, but could not find any information about lodging at Crooked Creek again. I understand there is no camping nearby. Any suggestions?

Hugo

There is a dry campground at about the 7,000 foot level down out of the Bristlecones that is decent with pit toilets and it's just a few minutes back up the mountain to the good stuff.

[Juergen Sattler]

Most likely, Bristlecone Pine Forest will be closed as well. They typically close by the end of November latest. Call ahead!

[Drew Wiley]

Jim - we're talking about December here! Going from 7000 ft on a washboard dirt road
up to 11000 ft in the winter is not something one wants to do in a rented car! That
campground can be cold enough in October, but sure has one helluva view of the
Palisades in the Sierras. I've seen it snow enough in Dec to shut down the paved road
way down at Westgard Pass. Sherman Grove is near the campground, but certainly
doesn't have the classic windswept bristlecone forms of the upper grove. Any of those
backroads can be pretty damn hazardous off-season - that's why the roads are generally closed. Even if they were open, an extra spare tire and an extra week of
food and water wouldn't be unrealistic. I've been stuck even in 4WD for several days
at a time just off the main routes in your state, which gets even less snow. There are
many safer places to explore, with plenty to photograph in winter. But even a soft
place on the hwy like Bridgeport, which gets huge motocyle rallies in the summer, can be around zero in Dec - no place to get stuck even in a car.

[Jim Galli]

OK, bad idea unless you live in Tonopah, NV., and have a 4WD vehicle and can go home and sleep in you own nice warm bed. :o

[Joseph Dickerson]

As others have mentioned, it'll be cold.

I have van camped and shot at Mono Lake in December and anything we didn't want to freeze we had to put in the refrigerator.

The campgrounds around Lee Vining including Virginia Creek Settlement will be closed. The RV park in Lee Vining might be open though.

You used to be able to get into Lower Lee Vining Campground after it officially closed but they now have it gated and fenced.

I have van camped at South Tufa and in the Visitors Center parking lot without hassles. The overlook at the Union Gas Station on hwy. 120 is good but the Whoa Nellie Deli sadly will be closed for the season.

Lot's to see and shoot if you're prepared for the weather though. Talking about that area is starting me thinking of heading up that way too!

JD

[tgtaylor]

One thing for sure, the motels/hotels will be dirt cheap, the campgrounds and trails empty, and the lighting and atmospheric conditions superb!

Late December thru early February is the best time for a photography road trip in the west. You can see for a hundred miles in the Grand Canyon area!

Enjoy!

Thomas

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah - don't be discouraged, just prepared. I've been stuck all kind of places in the
West, waken up from a cozy sleeping bag to a fresh snow, strapped on the snowshoes and 8x10 pack, and couldn't be happier. Meanwhile, someone the same
night would freeze to death in a car along the same highway somewhere. Happened
quite a few times in my memory. Gas up whenever you can, and buy a cheap picnic box for supplies. Death Valley itself might or might not be T-shirt weather. But the light is simply wonderful in December, and its one of my favorite times of the year in that whole area. The nights are obviously long, so take along a good lantern and book too. Even that time of the year, I'd rather be listening to the coyotes howl than to a TV in a motel. Don't worry about seeing all the "sights". It
would take a lifetime.

[mentalcrisis00]

I'm grateful for all the suggestions and advice, I'm not too worried about the cold. I live in Maine and I've camped, been stuck, and lost in the Maine woods during winter. Even if the worst did happen I imagine I could manage. I'm not going to look for trouble though especially with a partner along. I wouldn't mind sticking to the lowlands in DV, it seems there are countless sites to camp and photograph. I figure I'll pick a few choice places and spend a couple days in each, or maybe I'll spend the entire week in one place :-P

Keep it comin

[mdm]

Ive been itching to suggest you go to death valley last, Mentalcrisis.

David

[John Kasaian]

If it's XC sking you're after, from Badger Pass you can access Glacier Point and overnight there, From Wawona or the South Gate you can snow camp in the Mariposa Grove. On the east side you can book a bunk at the Tioga Lodge and ski in---it would be a heck of a climb though! I'd only suggest these trips if you could be certain of a high pressure area. I wouldn't want to be up there in a blizzard!

[John Kasaian]

Ski areas such as Heavenly, Squaw Valley and Mammoth have observation decks for non-skiers. With the right atmospherics and lens you can get some really great snowscapes for the cost of the tram ride. If your drive should take you through Lake Tahoe while 'rounding the Sierras it might be something to keep in mind(although skiing from the top of Sky Lift to the top of the tram with an 8x10 in one hand and a pack full of film holders is certainly a worthy undertaking!:D )

[Drew Wiley]

Hi John - a friend of mine made that ski trip up the Tioga road and back around Tenya
Lk etc in shorts - wanted a good tan and got more than his money's worth. But never
did learn his lesson. He'd climb with my nephew quite a bit. Next summer took off his
shirt while fishing Third Lk up in the Palisades for breakfast, before planning to climb
Temple Crag. Fishing was good, so he just keep hiking the perimeter of the lake. By the time he got back to camp, his back was so fried that he just had to lay on a flat slab the rest of the trip; and he sure did moan when he finally did have to put a pack back one and head downhill. What I used to hate on those sunny days in the snow
was a steep uphill with the ice axe and breathing so hard that the reflection off the
snow got the roof of my mouth sunburned. Maybe I needed a personal compendium
shade just like my lense had.

[al olson]

. . .
The campgrounds around Lee Vining including Virginia Creek Settlement will be closed. The RV park in Lee Vining might be open though.
. . .


The RV park at Lee Vining closed on October 31. Likewise for the RV park up at Bridgeport. I had to camp at Lone Pine at the beginning of November.

[Preston]

Just a quick note on the higher elevation Sierra Passes--

Sonora (Hwy 108), Ebbets (Hwy 4), and Tioga (Hwy 120) are all closed for the winter.

--P

[Jim Noel]

All very good suggestions so far. The pictures are where you find them. The Ancient Bristlecone forest is a fine extreme to death valley within a very few miles relative to a birds flight. You can be below sea level and climb to 11,000 + if weather permits. I've been up in the Britlecones in January on a dry year. Brisk and beautiful. If there have been storms, probably best to not try that. The road is good for a really long way up the mountain.

Your bigger problem is, it's all so beautiful, you'll want to drive less and shoot more. Distances eat up valuable time.

Probably already too late to go to the Bristlecones. At least two big snowstorms already and once closed they do not clear the road until spring. You might be able to get to the lower grove, but not further. Probably too much of a chancy drive to warrant the trip this time of year.
There is a lot to see and photograph in DV. Enjoy it.
Yes, 95 is your most direct and easiest entrance. Go all the way to Beatty, NV and over the pass down into the valley for a beautiful introduction to this great park.

[mentalcrisis00]

Hey all

Heading to DV this friday. Going to arrive at Vegas around 11am, rent an SUV from enterprise, stock up on food and water at walmart, and then head to DV for a week. Figure I'll hit Dante's View first day and spend the night seeming I hear it's a great view. Then to Furnace Creek to pay, Bad water, head north to stovepipe and Mesquite Dunes, head further north to Ubehebe Crater and maybe to Eureka if I think we can make it. The roads look a bit sketchy that far north if the map is an accurate indication.

I'm going to bring two 50 sheet boxes of efke 100 and a 10 sheet box of Kodak Portra 160, damned color is expensive these days. Also taking my P&S as well. Hopefully I don't have any problems with the film/camera in my carryon bag. I'm going to be using a backpack and it's only 5 inches under the size limit for Continental Airlines so I'm crossing my fingers. I've looked up other peoples threads about film and Xrays and I don't think I'll have the film threw the xray more than 4 times on the entire trip so I should be ok.

Anyhow I'll be back on the 17th so hopefully I'll have some new DV photos to show you all in the Image section.

Thanks for all the help and happy New Year!

-Ray

[SocalAstro]

Perfect timing, you might see some snow there. I got a note from the DV Natural History Association that there was some snow in Furnace Creek - A very rare occurrence. I was even tempted to go back for one night just to see the snow :-)

Enjoy your trip.

-Leon



Hey all

Heading to DV this friday. Going to arrive at Vegas around 11am, rent an SUV from enterprise, stock up on food and water at walmart, and then head to DV for a week. Figure I'll hit Dante's View first day and spend the night seeming I hear it's a great view. Then to Furnace Creek to pay, Bad water, head north to stovepipe and Mesquite Dunes, head further north to Ubehebe Crater and maybe to Eureka if I think we can make it. The roads look a bit sketchy that far north if the map is an accurate indication.

I'm going to bring two 50 sheet boxes of efke 100 and a 10 sheet box of Kodak Portra 160, damned color is expensive these days. Also taking my P&S as well. Hopefully I don't have any problems with the film/camera in my carryon bag. I'm going to be using a backpack and it's only 5 inches under the size limit for Continental Airlines so I'm crossing my fingers. I've looked up other peoples threads about film and Xrays and I don't think I'll have the film threw the xray more than 4 times on the entire trip so I should be ok.

Anyhow I'll be back on the 17th so hopefully I'll have some new DV photos to show you all in the Image section.

Thanks for all the help and happy New Year!

-Ray