Who's negotiated the printer selection maze lately? Epson 3880, 4880, or ?

[Jay Decker]

Lately my photography sucks less. And, while my photography doesn't merit being printed larger, after all, photography that sucks less, still sucks, I'm interested in purchasing a 17-inch wide printer anyway. So, if you'd have negotiated the printer selection maze lately, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the following questions:


What were your primary considerations or features sought? What do you wish you would have considered?

What compromises did you feel that you made? Were the compromises worth making?

Which printer did you select, and if you use a RIP, which RIP do you use. Are you reasonably satisfied with the performance of your printing system? And, Do you feel that your system is capable of producing "exhibition" quality prints?

How many prints to do you produce per week or month? What percentage are bigger than 8.5x11?

Any other recommendation, admonishments, or encouragements?


If you would like to know my interest to help you better address considerations that I might encounter here's where I'm starting from:


- monochromatic prints
- frequently printed in warm tone
- prints are generated from film scans
- was printing with a Epson 1400 with MIS Ultratone inks (the nozzles are clogged beyond all reasonable hope of recovery)

Print Example:

http://www.monkeytumble.com/tmp/Abiqui%C3%BA%20Grass%205%20Churches%20in%205%20Days%20Workshop%2020101017.jpg

[rdenney]

The 3880 and the 4880 have, near as I can tell, the same printing technology. The main difference is the former is intended for a low duty cycle, and the latter for a high duty cycle. I make a few prints a year--the 3800 was my choice when that was the current model.

As to whether it can make an exhibition-quality print, that depends on what you mean by exhibition quality. I've made prints; a couple of them have been exhibited in public. In that show, those prints stood up to the best print quality available in the show, both black and white and color. But that doesn't mean that show set the bar particularly high.

I use the fancy black-and-white engine that Epson provides--ABW. Though I was unable to get the selenium toning effect I really wanted, the results were pretty good. The warmer you print, the better they get. I compared those results to the best RC print I could make (RC but also very nice Oriental Seagull paper) back when I had a darkroom, and on Epson premium glossy, the inkjet did better. That's the comparison that was relevant to me. But there are better methods, including the Quadtone RIP, which I will invest in if I make my return to black and white, and going all the way to piezo inks for dedicated black-and-white printing. But I think it's worthwhile to start with what Epson provides and see for yourself how far that can go before complicating matters.

So, if I was making 50 fine prints a month, a 4800 might have been a better choice. With its bigger ink tanks and heavier (MUCH heavier) construction, it is designed for production work. Ditto if I needed to print on roll paper, though I think the 3880 does that. But I don't think I give up any print quality using the 3800.

Rick "who isn't good enough for comparisons of the best possible printing methods to be particularly relevant" Denney

[Ron Marshall]

I use a 3800 with Epson ink, Quadtone RIP, on Galerie Gold Fiber Silk.

QTR renders visibly better prints than ABW, in my experience.

I used to print with NK7 Piezotone inks, from Inkjetmall, on a 2200, and was very pleased with the results; which were on matt paper. I am happier with the results I am getting with the OEM ink with QTR on GGFS.

I would probably be somewhat happier with piezotone inks on glossy paper, but have not yet tried.

If you plan to do much color, you might also consider the Epson 4900, for it's superior color gamut.

[Oren Grad]

I bought a 3880 earlier this year, have been slowly transitioning from a B9180. I did not seriously consider a 4000-series printer - too big, too heavy, too expensive for me. I chose Epson rather than Canon because I wanted to have the option of trying QTR.

Re monochrome printing, I strongly disliked the monochrome output from the B9180. The 3880, driven by QTR, has been much more promising so far. For my taste it's still not remotely a replacement for darkroom prints, but I can start to imagine using it for some purposes. I prefer, and have mostly been using, the QTR "warm" profile. This uses only the K, LK and LLK inks, making it effectively carbon-only. I haven't been impressed by ABW. I should add, this is for printing on matte-surface papers. I've tried a few tests on glossy papers and the results still look ghastly to me, QTR or not.

I'm happy to report having no clogging problems whatsoever with the 3880 so far, despite having breaks of up to a couple of months between fairly intense bursts of printing activity.

FWIW, the little magnet that holds the front output door closed fell off almost immediately after I got the printer - annoying, but not functionally important. Other than that, the machine has been reliable.

[sultanofcognac]

I just bought the 1400 and love it!

It's a bit of an ink thief but they're not called "Ink Jets" for nothing '-)

Maybe I should have bought an Ink Snail. . . or the Ink Sloth

[Ed Richards]

I am happy with my 3800 for monochrome. If your paper matches the output from the ABW mode, it makes an excellent print. Harmon FB Glossy works great, and I now use Epson Exhibition Fiber, which is also great. I have had the printer running for nearly 3 years with no clogs, including long periods without making prints. Ink consumption is no bad, esp. when you are not making prints.:-)

I would get a 3880 in second if my printer failed. I am hoping to keep mine going until the next generation, but I would not lose sleep if had to get a 3880 tomorrow.

[Donald Miller]

I have both the Epson 2400 and Canon Pro 9500 II and I like the Canon printer for color printing much more so than the Epson. QTR is as someone else mentioed better in my experience than ABW.

[Jeffrey Sipress]

The Epson 4900 is about to be released in the USA. Specs are already online (UK site, at least).

[keith english]

I use a 3800 and Eric Chans profiles for ABW. If you print from photoshop you simply download his profiles for popular papers and print from them. I use Ilford Fiber Silk also and get great prints. He also make profiles for the 3880 now.
http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/index.html

[Jeffrey Sipress]

I wonder if those profiles would work on an epson 4800. I believe they have the same print engine. Using a profile for a BW print is a new concept anyway, so maybe I'll give it a try.

[Oren Grad]

I wonder if those profiles would work on an epson 4800. I believe they have the same print engine.

>>Can I use color profiles for similar printers like the Epson 4800 with my Epson 3800?

Yes, but you may not (probably won't) get accurate color. The 3800 uses a different print head design, a different software driver, and a different screening algorithm than the 4800, all of which can lead to different color output. It's best to use the Epson-supplied profiles for the 3800 or to obtain custom profiles.<<

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/faq.html#reuse_profiles

[neil poulsen]

Lately my photography sucks less. And, while my photography doesn't merit being printed larger, after all, photography that sucks less, still sucks, I'm interested in purchasing a 17-inch wide printer anyway. So, if you'd have negotiated the printer selection maze lately, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the following questions:

What were your primary considerations or features sought? What do you wish you would have considered?

1. What compromises did you feel that you made? Were the compromises worth making?

2. Which printer did you select, and if you use a RIP, which RIP do you use. Are you reasonably satisfied with the performance of your printing system? And, Do you feel that your system is capable of producing "exhibition" quality prints?

3. How many prints to do you produce per week or month? What percentage are bigger than 8.5x11?

4. Any other recommendation, admonishments, or encouragements?

I just received a 3880. I have it out of the box but haven't yet used it. I had a 4000 that doesn't have much mileage on it. I liked the photos I printed with it. But, I didn't use it often enough, so it was constantly clogging. I finally gave up on it and will sell it locally.

As to your questions . . .

1. Two compromises. I can't use rolls, but that's not much of a compromise for me. At the very least, I can cut sizes I need from a roll. The more significant compromise is that it's about 10% more expensive to purchase ink, when compared to using 110ml ink cartridges. It's proportionately more expensive compared to using 220ml cartridges.

As a possible third compromise, I had a yen to get the 4900 for the added color gamut. But, I was happy with the prints I was getting from the 4000, so I'm sure I'll be at least as pleased with prints from the 3880. CMYK has a long history of yielding excellent color.

2. I will upgrade my RIP to the ColorBurst Pro for Windows based computers. I will use QTR for monochrome. I'll probably give ABW a try, though. I'm sure that this printer will yield exhibition quality prints.

3. I don't do that many prints per month. I do mostly 8.5x11, but will also do up to 16x20 on 17x22 paper.

4. The 3800 is the best out there for digital negatives, and I think that the 3880 will be equally good. With the Light Light Black, it will get excellent results with black and white prints. In fact, without feedback on the 4900's ability to print digital negatives, I would have been reluctant to purchase that printer. Based on comments I've seen on the Forum, the 3800 and the 3880 don't clog nearly as often as the 4000.

I see that B&H and Epson have extended their $300 rebate to the end of November. That includes free shipping. So, I felt that the time was right to purchase a 3880, considering the substantial discount that I received.

[Ed Richards]

Be sure to buy the 2 year warranty extension if you buy an Epson. These are not replaceable heads so if it clogs, you have might as well throw it away if you are out of warranty. The extension is not very expensive, and in three years I am sure we will have revolutionary new products to lust over.:-)

[Vertex Ninja]

I'm not a professional in any way, shape, or form, but I'll offer my opinion on the Epson 3800. It has been relatively problem free for me and has only developed one minor clog in the year and a half I've had it. Just like "Oren Grad", my magnet fell off within the first week, but was nothing a little super glue couldn't fix.

All my prints are for my personal use, friends and family, or for the state fair and such. That said, I'm still pretty anal about the quality and the prints have been really impressive IMO. I've only used other people's profiles, but I've never had more visually accurate color, including lab prints. My previous Epson 2200 was never this accurate out of the box. I've tossed maybe 2-3 prints that weren't quite what I expected, but all the rest have been keepers. I use Eric Chan's ABW profiles for B&W and have been pretty happy, but am learning QTR for the added control.

I've printed ~280 prints of greater than or equal to 8x10 and have just recently needed to buy some replacement cartridges. I've done maybe 6 16x20's, about that many 12x18, a few 11x14's, and one 16.5x26. All the rest have been various sizes on 8.5x11 paper. Cutting and loading roll film is a real PITA in my opinion. It's hard not to scuff the surface of the paper with all the handling. I've only done the one long print, but it seemed like you'd need to stand behind the printer to load the paper effectively. Whenever I use cut sheets from a roll, I have to cut about 2-3 inches of extra paper or I get head strikes at the end of the print. For these reasons, I'd strongly suggest getting a printer with native roll support If you plan to print many panos or use roll paper. It's a shame there aren't more options for 17x25" cut sheets, because I'd never even bother with the rolls.

I plan on getting into alternative printing very soon and will be using QTR to make my negatives. I can't offer an opinion on this aspect just yet, but from what I hear the output is quite good. The fact that QTR is only available for Epsons might be something to consider if you have any interest in going down that rabbit hole too.

I also feel I should mention the papers. I usually print on Exhibition fiber, Canson Baryta, and Canson Platine. I've also printed on Premium luster, but don't like it's rubbery texture and coolness. Once I run out of my current stock of paper I will likely switch to Ilford GFS and Canson Platine exclusively. Both supposedly lack OBA's and Platine is acid free. The Platine is an amazing paper. The blacks aren't quite as deep as Exhibition Fiber and the sharpness doesn't appear as biting, but the smooth texture and feel is perfect IMO. It has very low Gloss differential, practically none once sprayed, and it's got a slight buttery warmth that I love. I've read very little about it online, but it's been out for quite some time. I wonder if many people have tried it?

Anyway, just my opinions and ramblings. Maybe something in there will help you make your decision. Good luck! :)

[Bob Kerner]

Is there a particular reason no one has mentioned a Canon printer? Is it because of the availability of RIPs?

I'll throw my two cents in on a Canon Pixma Pro 9500 MkII. I've had it for about 2.5 months and haven't found a single issue with it. My prints are stunning and I'm pretty close to incompetent when it comes to fine-tuning my images for printing. We have one at work and my colleague who is actually paid to do this sort of thing can make the printer sing. Most of my stuff is 8.5 x 11 but at work we've gone larger and it looks great. I print at least once a week, if for no other reason then to practice.

My last Epson (years ago) was nothing but a heartache with clogs. Last clog cost more than the printer was worth to fix the heads so I gave up printing for a long time. Haven't heard a single person complain of clogging in the Canons. Worth a look, at least.

[Jay Decker]

Thank you for your input... I read each post at least twice. Today, I purchased the an Epson 3880.

[dangerber]

I'm sure the 3880 will serve you well, I use one to print about 5 prints a week, and do not leave it powered on between sessions, and have yet to have an issue with clogs. DO check out Eric Chan's profiles and such, as he uses a 3880, and offers a lot of good insight. I have the privilege of working with him! :D

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/index.html

Have fun, it is a great printer.

[[=brian=]]

I just bought the 1400 and love it!

It's a bit of an ink thief but they're not called "Ink Jets" for nothing '-)

Maybe I should have bought an Ink Snail. . . or the Ink Sloth

Haha, you just need to get an inking system such as this one, here. (http://www.macroenter.com/CISS_for_Epson_Stylus_1400_p/cis-ep-1400-e42.htm)