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Bob Kerner
6-Nov-2010, 08:45
I'm off to a bad start with my new-to-me Wisner Traditional and need some repair advice. I took it out of it's bubble wrap without noticing that the clips that keep it closed were a tad mis-aligned/bent and as such not fully secure.

I bet you can see where this story is going.....

I grabbed the camera by its carry handle and, in an instant, the entire bed and front standard deployed downward to the ground, sheering the rear standard away from the bed. The back is no longer attached to the bed, as pictured below; the wood basically separated at the joints on both sides of the back.

Is this something that can or should be repaired? And is it worth the likely expense of the repair?

I paid $575 for the camera from a merchant. It's my fault for not recognizing the clips weren't engaged. I get it! I also wonder, however, whether this thing has broken at that location before, based on the ease with which it separated....but I'll never know.

Should I send it off for repair, or should I consider this an omen and ditch the thing altogether? I don't want to spend $300 repairing a $500 camera.

Lastly, has anyone seen a failure like this before?

Thank you

Michael Roberts
6-Nov-2010, 08:54
bummer. I would try some Titebond II wood glue. It's what my carpenter/contractor uses. According to him, if it separates again, it will be some other place, as the glued parts are bonded even stronger than the solid wood.

Gem Singer
6-Nov-2010, 09:10
You previously stated that you purchased the camera from Jim, at Midwest.

I would be a good idea to contact Jim and ask him what he suggests.

He stands behind his merchandise.

Jim Noel
6-Nov-2010, 09:13
A good glue job perhaps coupled with some small screw should make the camera usable at a very low cost. If it were mine, I would not hesitate to make such a repair.

Wayne Aho
6-Nov-2010, 09:21
Wood glue only, no screws, and be careful not to let the glue drip into other areas. You will need to clamp it somehow. It appears to be just wood separation, and the glue joint, if done well, is more than strong enough, and will only be visible to you. Don't drill holes and use screws, they will only stress the joint on an area this small. Most any good wood glue, such as titebond will be more than strong enough.

Bob Kerner
6-Nov-2010, 09:32
My inclination was to send it to someone like Richard Ritter and have it done professionally rather than try a handy-man repair.

Has anyone done a glue repair on their own camera? My concern is that the failure is near an area where the back pivots and that will contribute to re-failure since the glue joint will be under constant stress.

As I sit here looking at the camera, the irony is not lost on me that someone (I think it was Frank) said to look at metal 4x5s when I was starting my shopping. I thought, "bleh metal is so plain compared to wood," but I doubt I would have had this issue with a metal camera!

Bruce Barlow
6-Nov-2010, 09:33
Wood glue and clamps. This is almost exactly the repair that Richard Ritter makes in our video "Camera Repair in the Field." Easy, and the result is strong and permanent. I agree with not letting the glue slop elsewhere. A damp towel helps mop up excess.

Gem Singer
6-Nov-2010, 09:35
Is there a reason that you do not want to contact Jim regarding this problem?

IanG
6-Nov-2010, 09:54
Sometimes even when things are well wrapped these breakages happen in transit.

I received a Roll film back recently and the end of the sheath was snapped off, luckily these slide a long way in at the far end so I was able to repair it, although it's now about 5mm shorter. I haven't tested it yet but if there is an issue I have spare 5x5 sheaths and could cut one to fit.

As the item was well packaged I can't blame the seller, and claiming off USPS is a big hassle over something easily remedied, and I guess it's similar in this case.

Ian

Bob Kerner
6-Nov-2010, 10:21
Is there a reason that you do not want to contact Jim regarding this problem?

I never said that, Gem. I will contact him.

I'm just trying to get a sense of what my options are in terms of repair.

Jack Dahlgren
6-Nov-2010, 10:22
The advice about wood glue is correct. The two parts were glued originally and you can see that the wood broke before the glue.

It looks like some small clamps would fit right in there. Use some small blocks of wood between the clamps and the camera so the clamps don't leave a mark. If you can't find a way to fit a clamp in, you can use rubber bands or anything else which will apply pressure for a while. You don't need a whole lot of pressure.

Just make sure there are no loose splinters which would keep it from matching up properly, give one side a thin coat of glue, put it in place, clamp it and then wipe off any glue that squeezes out with a damp cloth.

Do not use crazy glue - it is strong, but more brittle. Don't use polyurethane glue - it swells and is messy.

Titebond or any other brand of wood glue is going to be the best bet.

Let it set for a few hours clamped, then wait a day or two until using.

Gem Singer
6-Nov-2010, 10:25
Ian,

I realize that Bob Kerner is taking full responsibility for breaking the camera. Judging from his description of how the damage happened - rightfully so.

I am not insinuating that he should blame Jim, or the shipping company for the damage.

I am merely suggesting that Jim can advise him as to how to have the camera repaired.

Knowing Jim as I do, I'm positive that he will do everything possible to help correct the problem.

Bob Kerner
6-Nov-2010, 10:35
Wood glue and clamps. This is almost exactly the repair that Richard Ritter makes in our video "Camera Repair in the Field." Easy, and the result is strong and permanent. I agree with not letting the glue slop elsewhere. A damp towel helps mop up excess.

Really! So this type of injury is not uncommon? And here I am thinking that I'm the first person this has happened to.

Bob Kerner
6-Nov-2010, 10:41
Yes. I'm not even trying to suggest that the thing was damaged during transport or improperly packaged. If anything, maybe....maybe one of the clips is bent and that's why it did not engage and keep the camera closed. And I don't find that to be something awful given the fact it is a used camera. On a new camera, I'd be mightily annoyed.

I'll wait to hear back from Jim and then take a shot at gluing it, since the consensus is that glue is the way to go.


Ian,

I realize that Bob Kerner is taking full responsibility for breaking the camera. Judging from his description of how the damage happened - rightfully so.

I am not insinuating that he should blame Jim, or the shipping company for the damage.

I am merely suggesting that Jim can advise him as to how to have the camera repaired.

Knowing Jim as I do, I'm positive that he will do everything possible to help correct the problem.

Jeff Keller
6-Nov-2010, 10:43
Only you can judge how comfortable you are doing the repair. It looks like it would be fairly easy to repair and that it could be repaired to be almost indistinguishable from new. The fact that the wood split rather than the glue joint failed somewhat proves that a glue joint can be quite strong. If you do it yourself, use clamps! It is certainly worth repairing.

If I am understanding the camera movements/locks correctly, I would be careful about overtightening the wheel on the rear standard. It looks like the screw comes down and presses against the outside brass on the base to lock the standard in position. The screw could possible push the standard up with enough force to split the wood again. It appears to be a design weakness. Perhaps Richard would have a way to improve the design while repairing it. ... Talk with Jim as Gem suggested.
Jeff

wager123
6-Nov-2010, 11:39
Bob
i have seen this before on a friends wisner , he did the same thing . he glued as has been sugusted and it's still going fine after 6 yrs of heavy use.
mitch

Sirius Glass
6-Nov-2010, 12:50
This is a recoverable problem. Not a pleasant problem, but you will get your camera back to working order soon, and then the world will seem brighter.

Steve

IanG
6-Nov-2010, 13:29
Gem, I hadn't meant my comments to be judgmental in any way. It was just coincidence mine came after yours :eek:

Items get damaged & broken even when extremely well packed for shipping, and the packaging may show no signs of abuse, that was my point.

As it happens I may be buying a camera (significantly older) which has a similar split glued joint, no one can predict when these things will happen.

Ian


Ian,

I realize that Bob Kerner is taking full responsibility for breaking the camera. Judging from his description of how the damage happened - rightfully so.

I am not insinuating that he should blame Jim, or the shipping company for the damage.

I am merely suggesting that Jim can advise him as to how to have the camera repaired.

Knowing Jim as I do, I'm positive that he will do everything possible to help correct the problem.

Alan Butcher
6-Nov-2010, 14:08
Had a very similar problem, only more serious, with my Wisner Traditional this summer, it went over a 8-15ft waterfall (but a story for another time).

The repair with wood glue only is the way to go, use no screws, I used Titebond II glue as previously suggest.

The biggest problems are:
1) making sure the pieces are aligned properly when glueing
2) making sure that the clamps provide pressure across the entire joint being reglued

It takes a little patience, but dry fit and clamp the pieces to make sure that you can accomplish the two items above when the glue is applied. If the alignment or fit is not correct, with the Titebond you can quickly take apart, clean the joint with water, wait for the wood to dry and then try again.

Good luck with your repair.

--
Alan Butcher

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 14:12
Coming late to the feast but this kind of repair - by now you can be sure of it - is the one which good wood glue loves most. Enough of surface to lie on, the glue will show all its strength, which is powerful.
By the way, as Jack said, no crazy glue - what people usually don't know is that crazy glue stops holding under 0°C temperature... ;-)

Frank Petronio
6-Nov-2010, 14:16
Wood cameras are prone to breaking.

That's why they make metal cameras too.

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 15:09
Wood cameras are prone to breaking.

That's why they make metal cameras too.

Sorry Frank, that's not the reason. Metal cameras are made because they offer higher precision and higher rigidity (not the same as not being prone to breaking) to name just a few reasons. Cameras are not done from metal so that you could break them less easily than a wooden model as their sensitive parts can be broken too. A metal camera wouldn't like the OP' handling either.

Frank Petronio
6-Nov-2010, 15:54
Oh I would love to make a big bet with you on that. I'd take the "Most well-designed wooden cameras and nearly every metal field camera would not fail in a similar situation".

I can break pieces off a metal Wista or Toyo or Linhof too. But not by accidentally dropping the bed.

A big piece of the blame can go back to Ron Wisner for designing/building it that way.

Steven Tribe
6-Nov-2010, 16:36
Frank is absolutely right. Having looked at the assembly in the posted photos, it is obvious that small area butt-end glued "joint" will be sensitive to the kind of impact from the "quick drop". Brass reinforcements and real joinery are not made for their aesthetic values but for practical reasons.

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 16:36
Oh I would love to make a big bet with you on that. I'd take the "Most well-designed wooden cameras and nearly every metal field camera would not fail in a similar situation".

I can break pieces off a metal Wista or Toyo or Linhof too. But not by accidentally dropping the bed.

A big piece of the blame can go back to Ron Wisner for designing/building it that way.

Com'on Frank, now you're trying to change your argumentation. No, metal cameras did not start to be constructed because oh, their beds couldn't break when dropped. Wooden cameras have sufficient degree of protection for their reason of being. And the reason of being for metal cameras is not protection against accidental breaking of wooden cameras. For that more simple measures could be taken on the wooden cameras themselves.

Ron Wisner has nothing to do with this kind of breaking a camera. Other wooden cameras would have hard time with this accident too.

Now go ahead and start to prove how metal cameras were invented because people didn't like that they couldn't drop their beds on wooden cameras without breaking them...;) But from a technical point of view it is not a correct reasoning.

"Wood cameras are prone to breaking. That's why they make metal cameras too." Panzer cameras finally on our markets - Linhof took the things on their drawing boards! At least somebody had pity on the fellow wooden camera breakers. :)

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 16:43
...
Brass reinforcements and real joinery are not made for their aesthetic values but for practical reasons.

Correct. Which proves that metal cameras didn't need to come to save wooden beds from breaking...

Frank Petronio
6-Nov-2010, 17:01
GPS - look at the photo. The entire back is supposed to be held on thanks to two ridiculously small, narrow glued areas. That's lousy design on Wisner's part, which led to the accidental breakage, no offense to all the Wisner owners who are groaning now....

If you look at a wooden Wista or Ebony or even a flyweight Tachihara they have a better design, and they probably wouldn't break in the same situation. With a metal chassis, they absolutely wouldn't break.

Of course Linhof didn't design a metal folding camera to avoid just this situation. But they did design the Technika to be more rugged than the competitive wooden cameras of the day. Same thing with more modern designs - wood is lighter, metal is stronger - but good design and craftsmanship counts too.

I realize thousands of people utilizing reasonable care use their wooden cameras successfully for years and years. But I bet a steadily dwindling number of those cameras are Wisners.

jb7
6-Nov-2010, 18:17
GPS - look at the photo. The entire back is supposed to be held on thanks to two ridiculously small, narrow glued areas. That's lousy design ...

I'm glad I stuck it out to the end of the thread,
that's what I thought as soon as I saw the pictures-
I'm kinda surprised it wasn't mentioned earlier.

I don't suppose there's evidence of an earlier break in the crosspiece too?

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 18:35
GPS - look at the photo. The entire back is supposed to be held on thanks to two ridiculously small, narrow glued areas. That's lousy design on Wisner's part, which led to the accidental breakage, no offense to all the Wisner owners who are groaning now....

...

Frank, look at the posts. I don't argue the reason for which the OP's camera broke - you still don't get it?
And metal cameras "are not made because wooden ones are prone to break" as you incorrectly stated - you still don't want to get it..?:rolleyes:

Jack Dahlgren
6-Nov-2010, 18:56
I often build things out of wood and when I saw the photos I was shocked that that was all that was holding it together. It is a poor design. Other wooden cameras I've seen are better. But there is no getting away from the truth that when it comes to small areas under high stress that metal is going to be better than wood.

Metal cameras are made to be rugged. And they are. Wood is inherently less rugged and it DOES break where metal may not. The best wooden cameras are designed well and are reinforced with metal where it counts to avoid this sort of problem.

Of course not all metal is created equally. You can have a poorly designed metal camera or one which uses poor quality metals which will be a problem too. But arguing that wooden cameras are as rugged as metal ones is ridiculous.

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 19:10
Wood cameras are prone to breaking.

That's why they make metal cameras too.

With the same logic you could say - "cars are prone to accidents. That's why they make boats too." :)

Frank Petronio
6-Nov-2010, 19:12
No I don't get it... isn't this getting silly and pedantic?

I am confident that one of the major reasons people decided to make cameras out of metal rather than wood is because metal would be more rugged and durable, i.e. less apt to break. Your reasons - stability and precision are important factors too.

Why do people here buy metal field cameras? The majority of the photographers here are going to tell you that ruggedness is the main reason, more than their need for precision/rigidity. You can see this is the design decisions made for the Toyos and Wistas, which are relatively lightweight for a metal design -- they're meant to be tough little boxes.

People make compromises when they decide whether they want the the lightweight beauty of wood or the strength and precision of metal. You're free to choose.

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 19:15
...
But arguing that wooden cameras are as rugged as metal ones is ridiculous.

Isn't it? Now - who argued that?? :confused:

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 19:26
No I don't get it... isn't this getting silly and pedantic?

I am confident that one of the major reasons people decided to make cameras out of metal rather than wood is because metal would be more rugged and durable, i.e. less apt to break.
...

Silly? Sure, have no doubt about it...;)
If constructors of wooden cameras wanted to make the wooden cameras less prone to accidental breaking like the OP's, they could always do that with their wooden cameras.
Metal cameras were constructed because of precision and rigidity demands, not because wooden cameras break with their accidentally dropped beds.
Now start to speak about other topics to cover this one. You can lecture about the metal being harder than wood etc. etc. Silly, isn't it..?:) Sure, I agree.

Jack Dahlgren
6-Nov-2010, 20:10
Silly? Sure, have no doubt about it...;)
If constructors of wooden cameras wanted to make the wooden cameras less prone to accidental breaking like the OP's, they could always do that with their wooden cameras.
Metal cameras were constructed because of precision and rigidity demands, not because wooden cameras break with their accidentally dropped beds.
Now start to speak about other topics to cover this one. You can lecture about the metal being harder than wood etc. etc. Silly, isn't it..?:) Sure, I agree.

Yes, metal adds precision and rigidity, but it also adds toughness. Not all wooden cameras fail from dropped beds, but they do fail from falling over and other sorts of unfortunate events which occur in the field. I think you are hung up on the specific incident rather than the general condition.

John Koehrer
6-Nov-2010, 20:41
The way the mishap is described, it may have been broken in shipping. "The latches were misaligned" is what they call a clue.
The joints are not true butt joints, there is no end grain used as a glued surface. The grain is at 90 degrees to each other though.
The third item is that the bed shouldn't have opened quickly enough to break the glue joint if the camera had been closed correctly before it was shipped. I don't believe I have EVER seen a camera shipped with the adjustments loose. Ebuy being the exception.

GPS
6-Nov-2010, 20:56
Yes, metal adds precision and rigidity, but it also adds toughness. Not all wooden cameras fail from dropped beds, but they do fail from falling over and other sorts of unfortunate events which occur in the field. I think you are hung up on the specific incident rather than the general condition.

The only thing I wanted to comment (not any more) is the mistake that was said - that metal cameras are there because wooden ones "are prone to breaking". From a constructional point of view such a statement is not correct.
Now if you want to comment obvious differences between a metal and wood do so at your will - I have no horse in those comments though...

sun of sand
6-Nov-2010, 22:20
cruising the streets in a boat really does make the most sense

Steven Tribe
7-Nov-2010, 02:50
Having looked at the photos again, I am not convinced that this was NOT a prior damage - as someone else has also suggested. A quick reglue in connection with a resale at some time might account for the misalignment. I think I can see glue at the edges that would not have been there when it left the original workshop. There may be evidence of glue in cavities in the fractured wood fibres?

GPS
7-Nov-2010, 03:35
Bob,
in all honesty, involuntarily you mishandled the camera seriously. Fortunately for you, the camera is easily repairable and if done correctly, the repaired spot will be stronger than having the joint from one piece of wood only. Correctly repaired and not mishandled again, the camera can serve a lifetime. In your shoes I would gladly repair the camera myself and use it correctly instead of agonizing over it.

jb7
7-Nov-2010, 04:21
I'm off to a bad start with my new-to-me Wisner Traditional and need some repair advice. I took it out of it's bubble wrap without noticing that the clips that keep it closed were a tad mis-aligned/bent and as such not fully secure.

I bet you can see where this story is going.....

I grabbed the camera by its carry handle and, in an instant, the entire bed and front standard deployed downward to the ground, sheering the rear standard away from the bed. The back is no longer attached to the bed, as pictured below; the wood basically separated at the joints on both sides of the back.




I fail to see how this is an admission of serious involuntary mishandling of a camera-
Unless, of course, you're not meant to pick it up by the handle?

RichardRitter
7-Nov-2010, 05:07
Years ago I repair a camera that was broken the same way as this one.
BUT The customer decides to do it himself and ended up gluing everything together and took a simple repair and turned it into a night mare and very expensive repair. Parts had to cut with a saw from the camera and new parts made. A repair that would of cost around $80 turned into a $400 repair.

RichardRitter
7-Nov-2010, 05:13
Metal camera do break and when they do they can not be repair only replaced. I have two Linhof Tech cameras that hit the ground and are now parts cameras.

Also working with a camera when it's 5 below zero wood cameras with their big knobs are so much nicer to work with them a metal camera with small knobs that one has to take their gloves off to work with.

Andrew Plume
7-Nov-2010, 05:26
[QUOTE=Bob Kerner;646344]My inclination was to send it to someone like Richard Ritter and have it done professionally rather than try a handy-man repair.


yes, Richard's definitely the man for the job - he has plenty of experience with this particular camera model (whether it's a Zone V1 or a Wisner) - far better to send it to him, imho


andrew

Andrew Plume
7-Nov-2010, 05:29
You previously stated that you purchased the camera from Jim, at Midwest.

I would be a good idea to contact Jim and ask him what he suggests.

He stands behind his merchandise.


I'll endorse this, Jim is easily up there, imho, as one of the best/most respected retail seller of used LF gear

andrew

GPS
7-Nov-2010, 06:23
I fail to see how this is an admission of serious involuntary mishandling of a camera-
Unless, of course, you're not meant to pick it up by the handle?

You should always check visually the clips that hold the camera closed, before you take it out of a case. Alternatively, you should be taking the camera out of the case with your fingers holding it so that it cannot open accidentally. I learned to do so naturally with my Wista camera all the time despite its magnetic closure after having a similar accident, without any consequences though.
Also, the cameras should sit on something before you open them - either the tripod mount or something else. They are not supposed to be open in the air by dropping the bed down.
If you know you own acrobatics for treatment of wooden cameras enjoy it fully...:)

Bob Kerner
7-Nov-2010, 06:26
An update. I'm going to send it off to Mr Ritter. This is a known weak point in early model cameras that was in later models reinforced. Repair should be relatively inexpensive and will give him the opportunity to look over the rest of the camera.

I have a gut feeling this isn't the first repair at this joint. But I'll let a professional look it over. While I can take being seen as a numbnutz for not checking the latches before picking it up by it's CARRY handle, I'm a bit dismayed by one person's characterization that I grossly mishandled it. As if I slammed it against the ground to see what would happen. It was an accident. I didn't post here to assign blame or invite riddicule, just to get help. Although I am new to this community, this is not my first experience with a LF camera. As it turns out, it IS a weak spot and not an uncommon repair. That's the info I was looking for and I thank everyone and Richard for their help.

Now while I wait for the repair, I will resume shooting with my Nikon. It's made of magnesium (virtually indestructible) and coated with rubber (toasty warm in the winter) No one has ever heard of one of these breaking ;)

GPS
7-Nov-2010, 06:45
...
Now while I wait for the repair, I will resume shooting with my Nikon. It's made of magnesium (virtually indestructible) and coated with rubber (toasty warm in the winter) No one has ever heard of one of these breaking ;)

So you take your Nikon magnesium body camera for "virtually indestructible"? :)
While I was on an assignment taking hundreds of pictures there was a man beside me with his magnesium body Nikon camera on a tripod. He turned to find something in his photo bag and knocked his tripod with his butt. He picked up the camera and thought he would continue to take pictures - but he couldn't. I started to observe him only to see that the camera apparently didn't function. He mumbled something about a magnesium body, should hold the fall, etc. etc. Next he picked up this tripod, camera and the bag and left the exhibition hall in a bad mood:(
Must yet see a virtually indestructible camera...

Bob Kerner
7-Nov-2010, 07:24
So you take your Nikon magnesium body camera for "virtually indestructible"? :)
.

Of course I do. It says so in the Nikon advertising literature. Not only is it indestructible, it has the world's finest, most accurate metering system, even better than a Pentax Spot Meter.

The reality is, all stuff breaks or is breakable. I've made it through 27 years of using cameras seriously without a major calamity until recently. I consider myself lucky. I also consider it a learning experience. I should have double checked the latches. Maybe I should have thought harder about a metal camera instead of wood. One thing I'm glad of: I bought used and if it doesn't work out I can re-sell and move on (disclosing the repair of course). If this had been a new camera, I'd be out-of-my-mind upset. It's just a tool. I've already found another tool to use while this gets fixed.

Jim Jones
7-Nov-2010, 07:32
. . . Now while I wait for the repair, I will resume shooting with my Nikon. It's made of magnesium (virtually indestructible) and coated with rubber (toasty warm in the winter) No one has ever heard of one of these breaking ;)

I've proved that the magnesium body of a Nikon can break. I even broke a Leica M2 body when a tripod leg collapsed while on a car-top platform. My ancient metal New Vue didn't have to fall nearly as far to break. I bought a Calumet and a metal Burk and James Press that were bent, but not broken. At least I can still use them. Send your fool-proof cameras to this old fool, and I'm sure to find a way to break them.

Brian Ellis
7-Nov-2010, 08:07
My inclination was to send it to someone like Richard Ritter and have it done professionally rather than try a handy-man repair.

Has anyone done a glue repair on their own camera? My concern is that the failure is near an area where the back pivots and that will contribute to re-failure since the glue joint will be under constant stress.

As I sit here looking at the camera, the irony is not lost on me that someone (I think it was Frank) said to look at metal 4x5s when I was starting my shopping. I thought, "bleh metal is so plain compared to wood," but I doubt I would have had this issue with a metal camera!

Just to make you feel better, I've owned two metal cameras and spent more than I care to remember on repairs. You might not have had this same problem but you very well may have had some other problem.

Brian Ellis
7-Nov-2010, 08:19
Wood cameras are prone to breaking.

That's why they make metal cameras too.

Hmmm. Let's compare my metal cameras with my wood cameras.

Repairs to metal Linhof Technika V - back knob broke when camera fell out of backpack about two feet onto a sand path - approximate cost of repair plus shipping to Marflex - about $350. Back damaged when wind blew tripod over with camera on it - approximate cost of repairs plus shipping to Marflex - about $500

Repairs to metal Linhof Master Technika - Front tilt mechanism failed, cost of repair plus shipping to Marflex - about $300.

Not to mention Marflex replacing the bellows in the Tech V - $500 and doing a general clean, repair, and replace - about $250 - $350.

Cost of repairs to wood cameras - two Tachiharas, two Deardorffs, two Ebonys, one Agfa Ansco, one Shen Hao, two Kodak 2Ds, and one Chamonix - $0

Any camera can break or have problems. There's no more guarantee of no problems with metal than there is with wood though I'm sure that you could create scenarios in which a wood camera would break and a metal camera wouldn't - and vice versa. The problem with the back knob on my Tech V was just one of those freak things - when the camera fell out of the back pack there would have been no problem probably 99 times out of 100 because the distance was short and the sand was soft. In this one instance it happened to land directly on one of the back knobs that protrude from the camera body and that caused the knob to snap off.

Steve Barber
7-Nov-2010, 09:51
While it can be said that the camera was mishandled by picking it up by the handle without controlling the bed, it is just as true that the breakage would not have occurred as a result if the rear tilt locking knobs had been tightened, as they should have been when the camera was closed before it was shipped.

Leaving those locking knobs loose makes me wonder if there were others loose, as well. That would explain how the retaining clips became disengaged in the first place.

In any event, I think the OP was set up for what occurred with a camera that was improperly closed and left unsecured before he received it.

Dave Hally
7-Nov-2010, 10:34
I think that there shouldn't have been any problem with picking up the camera by its handle, even if the OP snatched it up and flung his arm wide. I have dropped and knocked over several cameras, from a light weight Nagaoka, to my Toyo 45A. The metal stays bent on the Nagaoka, and the front base snapped on the Toyo, but never any problem from picking them up, including catching it by the handle when a spectator bumped it on the slope at Glacier Point (when you could still get out ther), or when the wind blew it over at the Grand Canyon (including the weight of the tripod).
As far as the repair is concerned, the easiest way is as previously stated, glue and clamp. If it was my camera, I would fit a couple of dowels across the joint and then glue it.
BTW, when the toyo did go over and snap the front base, The 419 geared head held and the quick release held also, so they are plenty sturdy.
Good Luck,
Dave

Chuck Peacock
8-Nov-2010, 13:20
Broken wood can be repaired or replaced by a reasonably competent cabinet maker or even a hobbiest.

Broken metal should be replaced or, if a replacement is unavailable, repaired by a highly skilled craftsman (just try welding your Technika or Toyo yourself). Admittedly, bent metal can sometimes be bent back -- once or twice.

I've always liked wood cameras because they are easy to repair. I one time diassembled and dried a Crown Graphic that had gone for a swim in a hotel room -- try that with a magnesium bodied Nikon.

I think Fred Picker said something like 'over time metal gets shabby but wood acquires character'.

Lee Hamiel
8-Nov-2010, 14:32
“This message has been deleted by Frank Petronio. Reason: waste of time”

“This message has been deleted by Frank Petronio. Reason: It was a snappy one ;-)”

Funny stuff Frank …

Still wish I could have read them

Lee Hamiel
8-Nov-2010, 14:43
In all seriousness - I feel the camera suffered a blow during shipping

I may have seen the same camera as I was at the shop a week or so ago and it appeared to be in fine shape.

I used to own a Wisner 4x5 tech field & if I recall correctly the collapsed camera should stay closed with all of the knobs tightened down after closing regardless of the brass tabs - this leads me to believe that damage occured while being shipped.

Regardless - I second other's opinions as to sending to Richard Ritter for a repair. I would make sure to find out how best to prepare for shipping it so it doesn't suffer any more damage.

I'm also confident that the camera will be just fine afterwards & yes it's worth repairing.

bvaughn4
8-Nov-2010, 20:23
I have the Zone VI version of this camera and the closing latch is also slightly misaligned. I picked it up by the handle once and it popped open but fortunately I caught it before anything bad happened. That was all I needed to be sure in the future I tightened the knobs for stowage! Your misfortune is now a significant reinforcement of that precaution for me.

Good luck getting it repaired. I bet it will be stronger when you get it back than when new and I think you'll really like the camera - once you get to use it!

Bob Kerner
8-Nov-2010, 20:31
I have the Zone VI version of this camera and the closing latch is also slightly misaligned. I picked it up by the handle once and it popped open but fortunately I caught it before anything bad happened. That was all I needed to be sure in the future I tightened the knobs for stowage! Your misfortune is now a significant reinforcement of that precaution for me.

Good luck getting it repaired. I bet it will be stronger when you get it back than when new and I think you'll really like the camera - once you get to use it!

Thanks for sharing. I'll be shipping it off to the spa tomorrow.