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mfratt
4-Nov-2010, 21:45
Hi All,
I'm new to these forums and pretty new to LF photography in general, so let me give a quick overview of where I'm coming from before I get into my question.

I'm a sophomore photography major at the Massachusetts College of Art in Boston. Up until recently, I shot exclusively digital - until my black and white large format class gave me a proper introduction to processing and printing film (the actual use of the camera came pretty naturally to me once I started toying around with it). Anyway, I love shooting LF (and have picked up a Rolleiflex Automat for somewhat more portable use), and have actually grown very bored of using my Canon 50D in general.

My school loans us Cadet 4x5 monorails for use during this LF class. I think those cameras are kind of... poorly built, to put it lightly, but still a lot of fun to use and can produce fantastic photos. Beside the fact that I have to return the Cadet at semester's end, I'd like to get a 4x5 of my own.

Here begins my inquiry.

I have the opportunity to trade my Canon 10-22mm lens (new retail ~$800, I am trying to sell it for $650) for a Linhof Kardan Color 45S (Whats the idea with putting "color" in the name?) with "lenses and accessories (film holders, bag bellows, Linhof tripod etc.)." I'm waiting for a response email with details on the lenses and accessories, but I'm wondering if at first sight this seems like a good deal or not.

My brief research indicates that this camera is a kind of budget Linhof. I don't know what that means, exactly (A budget Porsche is still a Porsche, even if its a Boxster vs a 911, is a budget Linhof still a Linhof?) What is the quality of construction like? I can't tell from photos if the clamp bits are metal or plastic. Smoothness of the camera movements? I know that just about anything will blow away the Cadet, but I have had the opportunity to (briefly) use a proper Linhof monorail and I was blown away by the precision and smoothness of everything - how does the 45S compare with something like that?

I appreciate your input!

Kirk Fry
4-Nov-2010, 23:06
There is a reason Sinar stuff is more expensive. There is more stuff on the used market that is more interchangeable. I have a Linhof Kardan Color 45S. It is a fine camera, however, the rail is non-extensible and parts can be very expensive (the basic camera is not). I bought mine for $160 with a few cosmetic problems (missing rail end cap and top standard cap). Linhof has made a bunch of monorails over the years, most of the parts, but not all are non-interchangeable. The large lens boards also cost a small fortune. The bag bellows I bought for it cost me $250. It also fits several other Kardan models. So depending on the price of stuff that goes with it, it would be a fine camera. That said, it is easier to build a system starting with any Sinar rail camera. The other thing is that it is HEAVY as it is built like a tank. Not the first thing I grab for hiking (that would be the the crown graphic or the ArcaSwiss). The Kardan Color 45S has also been out of production for 30 or so years. Specific parts are no longer available from Linhof, however, this is mostly the case with all older used view cameras. If it ain't broke when you get and you don't drop it, it will likely last decades. Good Luck.

mfratt
4-Nov-2010, 23:30
Well, as you mentioned, portability is another concern. I do a lot of hiking and even backpacking around the city, and the Cadet I have now actually fits neatly into a medium sized backpack that I have. Its not the most stable thing - It kind of plops around in there. I usually wrap the dark cloth around the camera to pad it a bit, but needless to say its not something I'd likely do with a camera I actually own.

But as long as I can backpack a monorail, weight doesn't bother me immensely.

That said, I've been struggling on whether to buy a field camera for the portability (I've been considering the Speed/Crown Graphics for a budget or even a Linhof Super Technika for a bit more), or if I should suck up the size/weight difference and get a monorail setup for the added flexibility in terms of camera movements.

Jim Edmond
5-Nov-2010, 06:32
The bellows can be easily removed from the 45S, and the standards will rotate parallel with the rail. So, it's fairly easy to put it into a pack. Not something that I'd want to lug around much, but it is a very rigid camera.

Jim Noel
5-Nov-2010, 12:00
Even if you want to c;ass it as a "Budget" Linhof, it his mies above the Cadet. As you have discovered, it is a very poorly made camera.

mfratt
5-Nov-2010, 16:08
I've got more details on what is being offered with the Linhof

150mm Ilex Acuton f/4.8 lens, Copal #1 shutter on a Linhof lensboard
12" Ilex Paragon f4.5 in an Ilex shutter
Homemade bag bellows (how trustworthy this is to be light tight, I don't know)
Linhof tripod (I already have a nice Manfrotto, but an extra couldn't hurt)
9 film holders
2 polaroid back (not sure if I'll ever use those)
Dark Cloth (again have one but extras are always good)

I don't know anything about these Ilex lenses (or LF lenses in general), can anyone impart some wisdom?

rdenney
5-Nov-2010, 18:35
You do not need to rush into anything. 4x5 cameras are widely available on the used market, and there are lots of choices in exceptionally good monorail cameras for the sort of price you are considering.

Those lenses are nice older lenses, but probably together worth no more than half of that Canon lens. I am not thinking this is a deal worth taking much of a risk.

And Canon lenses are so easy to turn into cash--you can probably sell that excellent 10-22 for 80-90% of new retail by listing it over at Photography On The Net, if it's in good shape.

Before you run out and buy a camera, though, it does some good to think about what you might actually need. First, consider how you will use the camera. Are you a backpacker? Do you work only in a studio? Do you never venture very far from the car when using large format?

What sorts of subjects interest you? Will you do architectural work, either exterior or interior? Product photography?

What is your photographic style? Do you like the emphasized perspective and enlargement of the foreground that comes with short lenses? Or do you prefer to isolate distant subjects? Are you only into photographing people? Do you like blurry backgrounds? Do you want extreme levels of detail, or are you more into pictorial effects?

If you work in the studio or not far from the car, a monorail view camera will suit you fine. If you are considering backpacking, you might prefer something more compact, or even something that folds into a box. If you will photograph buildings in the classic large-format way, you'll need a camera with plenty of movements and the ability to handle short lenses. But you may also want the ability to handle longer lenses.

And if you don't know any of these things, you'll want something not too expensive but well-enough respected that it will holds its value pretty well. That way, you can get experience with something that is competent, and then later use that experience to decide what you really want and need.

If you go monorail, there are several choices in the range of a few hundred, and all of them are better than the Calumet Cadet. The less specific are your shooting requirements, the more important is versatility. The two inexpensive view camera systems that provide the greatest versatility are the Cambo SC and the Sinar F. The Cambo SC is also marketed as a Calumet 45, or 45N. The Cambos are much better than the Cadet, providing plenty of system interchangeability and a ready supply of inexpensive accessories. The only thing they lack is an extensible rail, but it's easy enough to get two or three rails and move the standards the rail that fits the situation. The Calumet is bulky though not that heavy. It's main limitation is that it doesn't accommodate really short lenses. 75mm on a recessed lens board is about as good as it gets with that camera.

The Sinar F (or F1 or F2) is even more versatile. The rail is fully extensible so you get the camera on a 12" base rail, and then one or two 6" extensions and you can handle any lens. The bellows are interchangeable, and also with some Horseman cameras, so they are abundantly available and affordable. The camera has base tilts versus the axis tilts of the Cambo, so they don't have U-frames and they are thus very compact. If you later covet a field camera, you can get a Shen-Hao XPO that will take the same lens boards and accessories. If you later want a gear-driven studio monorail, you can get a Sinar P and it will take all the same accessories.

If you can get $800 for your Canon lens, you could easily build a Sinar kit that would include the camera, a bag bellows, and a lens or two.

Linhof is a storied brand, but they wrote that story on the basis of their technical camera, not on their budget-model monorail view camera.

You asked about Ilex lenses. Ilex was the best-known American lens manufacturer next to Kodak, and about as well respected. They also built their own shutters that are built like a cheap alarm clock, which means they are not high-precision shutters but they are durable and functional (and cheap). Most of their lenses were based on the classic tessar design, either a conventional tessar like the Paragon or a good version of the Kodak Commercial Ektar (the Ilex-Calumet Caltar). I'm not familiar with the Acuton other than having heard the name, it's probably a cheaper triplet or a tessar. The name Acuton has been one that I associated with Burke and James, probably from the 50's. If the Paragon is coated then it's from the 50's and perhaps based on the Kodak Anatigmat of the 40's, according to the Vade Mecum. I have an 8-1/2" Paragon f/4.5 and it's a very nice lens, on the border between vintage and modern. I also have a 12" Ilex-Paragon f/6.3, which is excellent. But Ilex lenses in Ilex shutters do not command really high prices.

But there are also great large-format lenses that are not expensive, including a range of Schneider Symmars and Caltar-branded Rodenstock Sironars. These lenses are fully modern even if some of them are as old as the Paragons.

Rick "who has owned most of the above" Denney

mfratt
5-Nov-2010, 23:57
Thanks for all you input, rdenny.

I've actually offered the guy to trade the 10-22 for his Linhof outfit plus $150 cash or a Beseler enlarger he's also trying to get rid of. I got the read that the Linhof itself (even with the accessories he offers) wouldn't quite value up to the 10-22.

Anyway, you make some interesting points about how I'll use the camera, and I've actually been debating back and forth as to whether to get a field or a monorail camera.

I don't do any studio work, its almost all outdoors, so portability is a concern for me - to an extent. I also do some backpacking, and have as of yet only brought along my 35 or my Rolleiflex for that purpose, but I'm always itching to get a 4x5 out up in the mountains. However, I also do a lot of shooting around the city, and I know I'd be kicking myself over the lack of movements in a field camera.

The reason (and please feel free to chime in on this) that I've kind of settled on the monorail is that I see it as "portable enough." The Cadet I use fits snugly in a backpack, and that has worked fine for me walking around the city for 6+ hours (often in the middle of the night as I like to do). I would love a field camera, but I've kind of settled myself to putting that off to being the next thing I go for.

As for my specific style, I don't often find myself shooting people with the 4x5. Maybe its a constraint that I need to work on stepping outside of, but I tend to like any photos I have that are about people to be much more spontaneous than a view camera will allow for, and as such I'll usually use my 35 or MF for those ends. I do tend to like sharp, specifically composed images. The DoF I want will vary tremendously depending on what I'm shooting. I know that I would like a wide angle or an ultra wide, in addition to a normal lens (as of yet, a 135mm is all I've used on the Cadet), but I rarely find myself wanting to shoot longer than a normal focal length (Ever since I began getting seriously into photography I rarely reached for anything longer than 75mm in 35 equivalent - on my 50D I don't even own a lens longer than the 50/1.8) Beyond that, I'm still experimenting with what I "like" to use the view camera for (I could tell you how I have been using it, but that would be rather limiting, since I'm trying to push the envelope of how I shoot and what type of pictures I make).

In the end, I see myself as still trying to find my niche in LF photography. I know I enjoy every aspect of it, from setting up the camera and composing the image right to making the final print, but like I said I'm still experimenting. I'd like a camera that will provide me the flexibility I need to be able to really explore the potential of the medium, while being well built enough to satisfy my OCD, and without costing me a small fortune.

I will definitely check out the cameras you've mentioned there, but as far as the Linhof goes - whether its a good deal or not aside - is it a camera you'd recommend for someone in my position or am I best off passing and looking into putting together a kit of my own?

PS: Just so I'm getting my lingo correct here, and to avoid sounding like the newbie which I am, are wide lenses generally referred to as "short" in LF photography, or are the terms interchangeable?

Jack Dahlgren
6-Nov-2010, 00:20
PS: Just so I'm getting my lingo correct here, and to avoid sounding like the newbie which I am, are wide lenses generally referred to as "short" in LF photography, or are the terms interchangeable?

They are interchangeable. Many of the manufacturers use a W or SW to indicate wide lenses, but none as far as I know call their lens Short or Super Short.

"Short" is in a way more precise as the focal length doesn't change if you change format (4x5, 5x7, 8x10 ...) but how wide a view does change.

Jack Dahlgren
6-Nov-2010, 00:32
I will definitely check out the cameras you've mentioned there, but as far as the Linhof goes - whether its a good deal or not aside - is it a camera you'd recommend for someone in my position or am I best off passing and looking into putting together a kit of my own?



The fact that no one is enthusiastically telling you to snap it up before someone else does should give a clue. It is not a particularly bad deal, just not one that stands out.

Personally, I think you should choose one of those cameras Rick mentioned. They are going to be a lot more liquid when you sell. With used old camera gear, you can almost consider the cost as rent as you can often get much of the cost back when you sell. They are already depreciated. Prices on popular mainstream equipment are pretty stable over time.

But that said, try it out and see if you like it. In the end, if you feel comfortable working with it, that is all that matters.

mfratt
6-Nov-2010, 09:01
The fact that no one is enthusiastically telling you to snap it up before someone else does should give a clue. It is not a particularly bad deal, just not one that stands out.

Personally, I think you should choose one of those cameras Rick mentioned. They are going to be a lot more liquid when you sell. With used old camera gear, you can almost consider the cost as rent as you can often get much of the cost back when you sell. They are already depreciated. Prices on popular mainstream equipment are pretty stable over time.

But that said, try it out and see if you like it. In the end, if you feel comfortable working with it, that is all that matters.


And this is where I've been hesitant.

I just got an email back from this guy though and he's made a very tempting offer, let me know what you guys think of this one.

The Linhof outfit, plus his enlarger and darkroom stuff for the Canon lens and a family portrait.

The Linhof has (as I mentioned)
- Linhof Kardan Color 45S
- 150mm Ilex Acuton f4.8, Copal #1 shutter
- 12" Ilex Paragon f4.5, Ilex Shutter
- Bag Bellows
- Linhof Tripod
- 4 Fidelity holders and 5 Riteway (I only have 6 Fidelity holders now so this will be nice)
- 2 Polaroid Back
- Dark Cloth
- Gossen Ultra Pro meter (I already have a LunaPro and a Skeonic, jeez more meters)

and the Englarger comes with
- Beseler 45MCRX Enlarger
- Condenser head
- 35 and 4x5 neg carriers
- Enlarging lenses (he's not sure which ones)
- GraLab timers
- Saunders easel
- Trays and tanks

to me, this is getting to be a lot of fun stuff in exchange for a lens, what say you?

Jimi
6-Nov-2010, 09:45
Go with your gut feeling. I would go for it - I think you'll find a way to get the camera outside and to the end of town or further if you need to.

Jack Dahlgren
6-Nov-2010, 10:25
And this is where I've been hesitant.

I just got an email back from this guy though and he's made a very tempting offer, let me know what you guys think of this one.

The Linhof outfit, plus his enlarger and darkroom stuff for the Canon lens and a family portrait.

The Linhof has (as I mentioned)
- Linhof Kardan Color 45S
- 150mm Ilex Acuton f4.8, Copal #1 shutter
- 12" Ilex Paragon f4.5, Ilex Shutter
- Bag Bellows
- Linhof Tripod
- 4 Fidelity holders and 5 Riteway (I only have 6 Fidelity holders now so this will be nice)
- 2 Polaroid Back
- Dark Cloth
- Gossen Ultra Pro meter (I already have a LunaPro and a Skeonic, jeez more meters)

and the Englarger comes with
- Beseler 45MCRX Enlarger
- Condenser head
- 35 and 4x5 neg carriers
- Enlarging lenses (he's not sure which ones)
- GraLab timers
- Saunders easel
- Trays and tanks

to me, this is getting to be a lot of fun stuff in exchange for a lens, what say you?

The entertainment value alone is worth it. I'd do it. If you don't like it you can sell it again.

rdenney
6-Nov-2010, 19:58
I will definitely check out the cameras you've mentioned there, but as far as the Linhof goes - whether its a good deal or not aside - is it a camera you'd recommend for someone in my position or am I best off passing and looking into putting together a kit of my own?

PS: Just so I'm getting my lingo correct here, and to avoid sounding like the newbie which I am, are wide lenses generally referred to as "short" in LF photography, or are the terms interchangeable?

The Linhof is a completely competent camera. It's just not quite as flexible as the other choices. But you can definitely have a lot of fun with a Kardan Color. (The very first view camera I ever used was an ancient Kardan owned by my university architecture school. Nobody else had any interest at all so I got to spend a whole year with it. The Kardan Color is much newer and much more flexible than the one I used, but I still had fun and learned a lot.)

Yes, it is customary for large-format photographers to use "short" and "long" rather than "wide angle" and "telephoto". The reason is that short and long refer only to focal length in relationship to "normal", as defined by the diameter of the format. Thus, that 12" Ilex, which is a normal lens for 8x10, would be a long lens for 4x5.

But it is not a telephoto, which has a more specific meaning. A telephoto lens is one whose rear nodal point is significantly further in front of where it is with "normal" lenses. That means a true telephoto requires less bellows draw than a non-telephoto lens of the same focal length. There are telephoto lenses for large format, but up to about 12" most of them are not.

And "wide-angle" in large format might be confused with a lens that has wide coverage. The coverage of a lens is defined by the size of its image circle when focused at infinity, and it is an indication of what formats it can cover, and how much movement is possible with those formats. For example, a Schneider 121/8 Super Angulon has an image circle of 288mm, for about 95 degrees of field of view. That makes it a wide-angle lens, even if I happen to use it with, say, 6x12 format, where its focal length would be about "normal". A 127mm Graflex Optar, which is a press camera lens of tessar design, barely covers the 150mm diameter of 4x5, even though it's about the same focal length as the Super Angulon.

So, I use "short" and "long" when referring to lenses that have a smaller or larger focal length than the diameter of the format. And I use "wide-angle" when referring to wide-coverage lens designs, and "telephoto" when referring to a lens designed to provide significantly less bellows draw than its focal length.

Rick "noting that a lot of 35mm format portrait-length lenses of 70-105mm are actually also not telephoto designs" Denney

Bob Salomon
7-Nov-2010, 06:01
Rick,
The Kardan and Kardan Color were totally different cameras then the Kardan Color 45S camera.

mfratt
7-Nov-2010, 08:35
Rick,
The Kardan and Kardan Color were totally different cameras then the Kardan Color 45S camera.

In what way?

And I still don't get the "color" branding... does it magically make my black and white negatives into color negatives?

Oren Grad
7-Nov-2010, 09:05
And I still don't get the "color" branding... does it magically make my black and white negatives into color negatives?

"Color" in the 60s and 70s was like "digital" today - manufacturers used it in product names and advertising to make their merchandise seem modern and cool.

Bob Salomon
7-Nov-2010, 09:19
In what way?

And I still don't get the "color" branding... does it magically make my black and white negatives into color negatives?

The original Linhof monorail were the Kardan 45 and the successor Kardan Color were basically the front and rear standards of a Technika 45 mounted to a monorail. Then came two fully modular Kardan cameras as replacement to these first monorail cameras. The Kardan B or Bi system and the original Kardan Super Color cameras. These were modualr 45/57/810 cameras but Linhof still needed a basic student camera so that was the Kardan Color 45S. It had the standards and movements of the original Kardan Super Color and a fixed rail length monorail unlike the B and the Super Color which could accept accessory extention rails.

If you loaded color film you usually got color results. If you put in B&W you magically still got black and white unless you used three sheets and process filters.

mfratt
7-Nov-2010, 09:50
"Color" in the 60s and 70s was like "digital" today - manufacturers used it in product names and advertising to make their merchandise seem modern and cool.

Horray for marketing people trying to make their stuff sound snazzy :rolleyes:
At least the digital branding is, well, digital...


The original Linhof monorail were the Kardan 45 and the successor Kardan Color were basically the front and rear standards of a Technika 45 mounted to a monorail. Then came two fully modular Kardan cameras as replacement to these first monorail cameras. The Kardan B or Bi system and the original Kardan Super Color cameras. These were modualr 45/57/810 cameras but Linhof still needed a basic student camera so that was the Kardan Color 45S. It had the standards and movements of the original Kardan Super Color and a fixed rail length monorail unlike the B and the Super Color which could accept accessory extention rails.

If you loaded color film you usually got color results. If you put in B&W you magically still got black and white unless you used three sheets and process filters.

Thanks for the info. Is there a way to, should I want, buy a Super Color rail for the extension and mount the Color 45S standards on it?

Bob Salomon
7-Nov-2010, 15:54
Horray for marketing people trying to make their stuff sound snazzy :rolleyes:
At least the digital branding is, well, digital...



Thanks for the info. Is there a way to, should I want, buy a Super Color rail for the extension and mount the Color 45S standards on it?

No, won't work. The interchangeable rails will only work on the original Super Color and the B system cameras.

Policar
7-Nov-2010, 17:42
If you haven't tried a field camera I think it's worth giving one a look. I just upgraded from an Omegaview 45E to a Toyo 45AII and the experience of using each camera is very different. At least try a good field camera before deciding, especially if you plan to travel.

While the lens movements are more limited with the Toyo compared with a monorail, they're still pretty comprehensive. You may have to think about things a little differently to get the same effect (e.g. tilt the entire camera up and use equal amounts of front and rear tilt, until the front and rear standards are perpendicular to the ground, to get more than 20mm rise; move the camera instead of using rear rise/fall and rear shift), but you can still do a whole lot. I don't find the camera's movements to be restrictive, though they may be for some studio work.

Jack Dahlgren
7-Nov-2010, 23:17
I've not yet felt restricted by my field camera's movements. They seem to match the capabilities of the lenses I have. Wides don't need much tilt or shift anyway.

Frank Petronio
8-Nov-2010, 00:27
Prices for less popular cameras are at the point you could readily have a quiver. A Crown for handheld, carry all-day comfort and dangerous situations AND a quality but heavy Linhof/Cambo/Sinar/Toyo monorail with unlimited movements for architecture and studio work.

Heck for $5-600 you could own both types of cameras and still spend less than a mid-level wooden field camera.

neil poulsen
8-Nov-2010, 01:47
You get a lot for a lens, if it includes and enlarger, etc. That's a pretty attractive deal. Do you have a darkroom available to you at school? Is the darkroom equipment really necessary? Do you have a place at home where you could set up a darkroom? How much do you like black and white versus color film photography? By and large, photographers who shoot LF color scan and print their images digitally.

Thinking about your descriptions, another camera to consider might be a Cambo? They can be easily found for under $200. There's a large range of inexpensive accessories available for these cameras. They're excellent cameras and are capable of all the movements you would need. Depending on what lens you purchased, there was an 11" rail made for these camera that might be easier to backpack. I don't know much about the Paragon nor the Acuton. But, I know that you can get excellent quality optics in a modern lens. For example, modern 210mm lenses sell between $200 and $300. Extra film holders are easy to obtain and can usually be found in the range of $7 each. Cambo monorails are a little large, but they're a reasonable compromise between size and cost. An ideal monorail for your purposes might be an Arca. But, these are expensive cameras.

As for not reaching for lenses larger than 75mm on a Canon 50D, depending on how one does the calculation, that lens would be about the same as a 360mm to 450mm on a 4x5 camera. Your comfort range on 35mm lenses is consistent with what tends to be typically used for 4x5. For example, my kit tops out at 380mm.

Good luck on making your decision. I think that you'll have fun with whatever you decide to purchase.

mfratt
8-Nov-2010, 12:09
You get a lot for a lens, if it includes and enlarger, etc. That's a pretty attractive deal. Do you have a darkroom available to you at school? Is the darkroom equipment really necessary? Do you have a place at home where you could set up a darkroom? How much do you like black and white versus color film photography? By and large, photographers who shoot LF color scan and print their images digitally.

Thinking about your descriptions, another camera to consider might be a Cambo? They can be easily found for under $200. There's a large range of inexpensive accessories available for these cameras. They're excellent cameras and are capable of all the movements you would need. Depending on what lens you purchased, there was an 11" rail made for these camera that might be easier to backpack. I don't know much about the Paragon nor the Acuton. But, I know that you can get excellent quality optics in a modern lens. For example, modern 210mm lenses sell between $200 and $300. Extra film holders are easy to obtain and can usually be found in the range of $7 each. Cambo monorails are a little large, but they're a reasonable compromise between size and cost. An ideal monorail for your purposes might be an Arca. But, these are expensive cameras.

As for not reaching for lenses larger than 75mm on a Canon 50D, depending on how one does the calculation, that lens would be about the same as a 360mm to 450mm on a 4x5 camera. Your comfort range on 35mm lenses is consistent with what tends to be typically used for 4x5. For example, my kit tops out at 380mm.

Good luck on making your decision. I think that you'll have fun with whatever you decide to purchase.

Yes, my school does have a gang darkroom to use. They have nice Omega enlargers and staff to come and make sure the chemistry is fresh. Thats all fine and dandy, but I hate being restricted by the hours. I'm one to work late into the night, but the darkroom at school is only open 2-9:30 weekdays and 12:30-5:30 fridays and weekends. Too restrictive for me. Plus, I enjoy having my own space when I work (I've been just reverting to a nice pair of headphones to "make" my own space, but its still annoying being in a crowded darkroom).

To be honest, my own darkroom setup wasn't even on the bill for me any time soon, but with this offer, I think I'll go for it even if I don't get it set up right away. I'm going to see if I can etch out a corner of my apartment for some tanks and enlarger and try to get the room reasonably light tight.

I do almost exclusively black-and-white, and when I do need color I have no problem scanning and printing digitally, though I do much prefer the more organic method of making enlarger prints. Its, to me, an important part of that whole hands-on, manual beginning to end process which makes me love shooting LF (and film in general) over digital.

I'm taking this guy's offer. I think its just too much fun stuff to pass up. I'll plan on a Speed Graphic or something along those lines down the road for portability, but I think this is a good starting point and will be a great camera to use.

I think I'll also need to get a short lens for this too. Maybe a 90mm or so. Any suggestions along those lines for not too much money?

Thanks everyone for you help. I'll throw up some pictures of my new toys once I get them!