Old, REALLY Old Lenses

[Two23]

I'm looking for a lens or two for my Shen Hao 4x5 field camera. (Takes Wista lensboards.) First, I want a really old relatively fast lens. I'm thinking of a Petzval. Second lens I want is a traditional landscape lens. I know they aren't fast. I'm looking for something wider than a "normal" lens, say the equiv. of ~35mm on a Nikon camera. I'd like both to be brass, like a hood, have either Waterhouse or wheel stops, and be no older than 1880. Top price around $600 for the Petzval, less for the landscape lens.

I don't think I want a shutter added. I shoot at night a lot so I can simply count out the seconds and use a black hat or lens cap. I can use heavy ND filters during the daytime. Another option is I have about 8,000 watt seconds of portable monolight power and can simply use flash duration as my "shutter" at night.

I am mostly an outdoor shooter, and shoot at night quite a bit. My subjects are abandoned farmhouses (especially interiors,) old country churches, railroads, small towns at night, and traditional landscapes. I currently use a 1937 Voigtlander Bessa and love the look of the shots. I've been shooting LF for about five years and am used to it. I mostly only shoot Ilford HP5 with my film cameras (also have a restored 1915 Kodak Autograhic Special No. 1 with Taylor & Hobson Cooke triplet lens.)

Although I have pro Nikon digital gear, I really enjoy using the older historical gear too. I like the finely crafted lenses, hand assembled precision cameras. I also like the sense of connection to photographers of long ago. Especially, I like the challenge of using this older gear! The look and feel of the gear is just as important to me as the results.

SO, what do you suggest? I'm thinking a Petzval from Dallmeyer or Darlot would probably work well for the "fast" lens, but what about a wider angle landscape lens? Lensboard is 3.75 inches wide, and distance from lensboard to GG is about 2 inches, maybe 2 & 1/16 inches. My plan is to simply bolt the lens onto the board, with the flange.


Kent in SD

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/duckgrabber/BA5bnsfYard.jpg

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/duckgrabber/BA5SHhotel.jpg

[Lachlan 717]

Extra Rapide Rectaliniar's for the shorter lens.

I have a tiny one (somewhere around 5") mounted on a Linhof board that I don't use much. Beautiful lens; brass and black anodised body, Waterhouse slot. Pretty little lens!

[goamules]

Kent, interesting, uncommon way of shooting. Nice job and welcome. You just missed my small Darlot Petzval I was selling in the classifieds. But you will find another.

You might like a Wide Angle Rectilinear for your other lens. They are common.

[Two23]

Kent, interesting, uncommon way of shooting. Nice job and welcome. You just missed my small Darlot Petzval I was selling in the classifieds. But you will find another.

You might like a Wide Angle Rectilinear for your other lens. They are common.


Unfortunately, as a new member I can't see the classifieds for 30 days. If anyone has something listed on there I might be interested, you can PM or email me. :)


Kent in SD

[Steven Tribe]

You are proposing an action which is contrary to the current Forum rules for trading here !!

[Two23]

You are proposing an action which is contrary to the current Forum rules for trading here !!

Note I made no mention of any particular item, there is no link to e Bay etc., no price mentioned, and it's entirely within the context of the thread I started. I'm definitely NOT a dealer, and not a spammer by any means. I did a quick read of the guidelines and I don't seem to have crossed anything specifically. Somone ELSE mentioned an item on buy/sell board, but may have fogotten that as being new to the forum I don't have access to it for a month. I am a practical person. How would YOU have handled it? :confused:


Kent in SD

[Ole Tjugen]

I agree with the WAR - Wide Angle Rectilinear. Not an "Extra Rapid" - they are NOT wide. But one of those could be a good substitute for a Petzval?

Also - being European and having enough lenses of various types to compare, in my experience a "Wide Angle Aplanat" is likely to be a lot sharper than a WAR. The Rectilinears and Aplanats are mostly of the same construction, but the wide angle versions are quite different in design and performance. Look for a Emil Busch "R.O.J.A" Wide Angle Aplanat (or Weitwinkel-Aplanat in German) Serie C no. 2 (or even better #1), or something like that. Nice little thing with wheel stops.

[Jim Galli]

Kent, interesting, uncommon way of shooting. Nice job and welcome. You just missed my small Darlot Petzval I was selling in the classifieds. But you will find another.

You might like a Wide Angle Rectilinear for your other lens. They are common.

Kent, I have one just like goamules (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=68243) but it doesn't have any name on it so it's cheaper, also sort of unusual for the era but it is nickel plated. French 5 1/2" petzval f3.2. Contact me off line if interested. jim dot galli at frontier dot com or PM me here.

I also get landscape meniscii from time to time and mount them in shutters like this one (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=67483&highlight=meniscus). Go look at the photos done with that and see it it's what you're after. They don't look pretty and antiquey but they are 95 years + old or so in a modern shutter.

[Two23]

Nice little thing with wheel stops.

I love the idea of wheel stops. I think they look cool! :) I know a little bit about modern lenses, but still have a lot to learn about the older ones I'm seeking now. I have put some thought into what I want the lens to do and what results I'm after. That should put me at least half way. I've been reading up on things on the internet for the past month and am beginning to zero in much better. A place like this forum is a true shortcut for me!

As for the Wide Angle Aplanat supplanting the need for a Petzval, I actually want the Petzval a bit more. My thinking is that the Petzval type are the fastest lens of that vintage that I'm likely to find. I think I need the speed since I shoot at night quite a bit. I'm looking for the second lens more for its wide angle capability than anything. As I've mentioned, I've been shooting the Voightlander Bessa for several months now and love it. However, I really do miss having wider angle capability. Last month I nearly picked up a Voigtlander Bergheil 6.5x9 miniature view camera. It was dark green and seriously cool! However, it too only had a "normal" lens, and I only saw telephotos available for it (expensive!). I got to thinking considering the effort to shoot a Bergheil and to shoot my Shen Hao are about the same, I'd just go for the much older lens and the bigger neg. The one thing that really attracted me to the Bergheil besides its cool dark green color was the fact this was the camera that one of the greatest night shooters of all time used: Brassai!


Kent in SD

[jnantz]

kent

be careful with old brass lenses
getting them can be kind of an addiction

[Two23]

kent

be careful with old brass lenses
getting them can be kind of an addiction

LoL! It's too late. :D I started out last month thinking just a Petzval would do; now I think I need a wide angle too! :) These old lenses bring several highly attractive things together for me: they are seriously cool, they are historic, and they are finely crafted beauties! I just hope I don't start getting into wet plates now. That's what might push my wife over the edge.
Jim G.--
That little Darlot really looks cool, but remember I'm after something made before 1880, and kind of prefer 1850 to 1870. I'm not sure that a Darlot without a serial number would be older than 1880. For me, the "old & antiquey" look are quite important. Something from 1890 is just too modern. ;)

You guys here are a jackpot of information! It would take me years to learn all of this. :eek:


Kent in SD

[Ole Tjugen]

Petzvals are the only old fast lenses - at least if you want pre-1880.

A typical Petzval will be f:3.5, while an Extra Rapid Aplanat would be f:6.5 or thereabout. But the slower speed is a result of greater coverage and lower weight for the same coverage or even focal length - a Petzval intended for 4x5" is a big long heavy monster , even if most modern users seem to want them for the swirly bits outside the real coverage.

A WA Aplanat/Rectilinear is typically f:14 to f:16.

[Steven Tribe]

Dear Kent in SD.
It is obvious you are bona fide.
But using general threads to either get hold of items or sell them IS getting around the present system of restricting commercial activity to a single thread. It is also for your protection as responders can be quite new too! However, Jim Galli cannot be considered as a newcomer!
Welcome anyway!
The very dark green Bergheil indicates the special de luxe model. I don't think there is much difference from the usual model in reality, though!

[Two23]

Dear Kent in SD.
Welcome anyway!
The very dark green Bergheil indicates the special de luxe model. I don't think there is much difference from the usual model in reality, though!

Steven--

I'm actually a pretty helpful guy. I'm not normally a trouble maker. And, I am passionate about photography and shoot almost everyday. I've never been to Denmark, but last month I spent a couple of weeks in Iceland. Best place I've ever been!! We'll probably never go back to Hawaii. As for the Bergheil DeLuxe, it seems to be a medium quality camera. It has no tilt for one thing. However, there is nothing else quite like it! The fact that the famed Parisian photographer from the 1930s, Brassai, used it was an equal attraction for me. If you've never seen Brassai's work (Paris by Night,), you might do an online search. Considering the ancient emulsions he used and relatively slow lenses, the guy was truly a master! He understood how to use Light.


Kent in SD

[BrianShaw]

Welcome to the group, Kent (even though this is clearly the wrong forum/thread to use for just a welcoming message.). ;)

[goamules]

Kent, if you are ok spending a little bit, the Darlot lever stop lenses are nice and from the period you want, and have an interesting way to change apertures. They are basically the WAR design. So that we can get around the classified "rules" (which were intended to stop a vendor from joining and immediately posting dozens of for sale items, not to prevent you from buying a lens), and do the evil deed of one photographer helping another, I'll PM you if I have anything.

[Steven Tribe]

The Bergheil was only special, as opposed to the usually run of advanced amateur plate cameras (6x9,9x12,10x15 and 13x18cm) in that it had an interchangable lens facility and was often sold with a Heliar mounted.

[Emil Schildt]

The Bergheil was only special, as opposed to the usually run of advanced amateur plate cameras (6x9,9x12,10x15 and 13x18cm) in that it had an interchangable lens facility and was often sold with a Heliar mounted.

true - and that opens for the interesting possibility to add "new" types of lenses on it...

The Bergheil is an addictive camera! I have 3, and I am still looking out for extras...

[Ole Tjugen]

I have three Bergheils too - the standard 6x9 and 9x12, and a tiny little 4.5x6. The small one does NOT have the bayonet fitting, though.

[Ernest Purdum]

Darlot wide angles with the three aperture levers are even cooler than wheel stops.