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View Full Version : Indian made Deardorff copies, anybody's got one of them?



cyberjunkie
30-Oct-2010, 09:19
I have purchased a 5x7" Deardorff "copy" on Ebay, and i should get it soon (i hope!).
That's not a real copy, the back is quite different, it's one of those found on early cameras, hinged on the top, and for those wooden plate holders.
On the front standard there is a brand label: VIJAY.
I didn't find any reference on the web, while i found something about RAJAH and PRINZDORFF cameras, that are of indian origin, and loose Deardorff copies, like mine.
The same vendor sells other wooden field camera, some with fixed back, some with front and backk focus, and a few with sliding beds, like a Deardorff.
There was even a D'Dorff copy for 5x17" panoramic film, in far better shape, but the film is almost impossible to find, it was more expensive, and the back was fixed. That would make the adaptation of a new back almost impossible, without permanently modifying the camera. That consideration made me choose the smaller one, so i'd be able to replace the original back with a standard one (i have the choice between two different 5x7" backs, one is a wooden Agfa Ansco, and the other is from a very old Fatif monorail).
Unfortunately the bellows is shot and so badly decayed that it would be very difficult to repair it in a satisfying way. Having the bellows remade is out of question, i would never spend 300 euros for the new bellows, for a camera that was just $127!
I think that i could try to make a replacement myself, i think i have at home some materials that could be used, but i don't trust myself very much, i am afraid that bellows making could be quite an hard task for somebody who never did it. :mad:
Probably adapting some kind of used bellows (that show up quite often on the Bay) would be a much easier task. :)
The camera has a modest bellows extension, and that should make it easier.

Whatever the result, a cheap indian camera should be an ideal candidate for my first restoration project.

I'd be happy to get in touch with somebody who owns one of these indian "copies", or at least to get some more infos about them.
One major question is about the original back. The camera comes with just one plate holder, and i guess that it should be shimmed in some way, to be able to use cut films.
I know nothing about old-style backs/plate holders, but i suppose that the simplest way to actually use the camera would be with standard cut-film holders, which i have already, both in 5x7" and 13x18 metric size, and for which there still is a decent choice of films, both conventional and for graphical arts.


have fun

CJ

RichardRitter
30-Oct-2010, 09:34
A spring back to take modern holders can be made to fit the camera. One holder will get old real fast.

Ernest Purdum
30-Oct-2010, 16:05
There are Indian made copies of Deardorff cameras, but this one only looks something like a Deardorff because of common ancestry. Both were inspired by British field cameras circa 1905 and very many years thereafter. The Japanese made many quite similar cameras and some design characteristics can be discerned even today.

Vaughn
30-Oct-2010, 21:03
As Ernest pointed out, this is not a real Indian copy of a Deardorff (the Deardorff Special to be exact, though there may have been others) The real fakes were marketed under the name Rajah -- I bought one new around 1980 ($535 with a 210mm 6.3 Computar in a Copal 1.) which came with the 4x5 revolving back, no 5x7 back. Later I bought a used 5x7 Deardorff back that fit on perfectly -- no modification needed.

Drew Bedo
31-Oct-2010, 06:28
I had a Rajah for a while in the 1990s. Bought it at the Houston Camera Show. It too was the 5x7 body with a revolving 4x5 back. The wood was some dense, redish tropical species that I don't know. It worked well and looked good but was bulky and heavy so I traded it for a boox of lenses at the Houston show two years later.

cyberjunkie
4-Nov-2010, 07:58
Thanks for the replies.
I am still waiting for the camera, but i took a closer look at the pictures. Something i haven't done before, because i didn't pay too much attention, as the camera was purchased as a base for some "customization", and as a guinea pig for my first attempt at restoring a wooden camera.
If you look better at the second picture, as i just did, you'll see that the back it's not the original one. Probably it comes from some other indian camera, something like a copy of a turn of the century british field camera.
On top of the camera there are four holes, that look as traces of the fixing screws of Deardorff-style hinges for the pins of a repositionable back.
With that in mind, the camera looks not very different from the Deardorff indian copies sold in the USA a few decades ago.
The back and the sliding bed look very similar, if you try to imagine the camera with the original back, to a picture of the Prinzdorff i have found online. Even the nickel-plated brass hardware that holds the back standard look exactly the same.
Only the configuration of the front is somewhat different, less refined, so probably it's something like an older version that predates Rajah/Prinzdorff copies. Just a gues...

While i hope i'll have no problems fitting the Agfa Ansco 5x7 back i have at home (the hinges are available on Ebay, so probably i'll avoid to have them remade from raw material), i am not experienced enough to understand how the lensboard was originally fitted.
There is no lensboard with the camera, and no retaining hardware. The only thing that i notice is a spring on the bottom of the lensboard housing.
Another thing that's very easy to see is the abundance of flat-head screws! There are plenty of them, plus a few holes, some filled and some not.
I suspect that most of those screws are not original, but were used at some time to "fix" the camera. The Rajah/Prinzdorff i have seen (only in picture!) don't have all those screws, they look to be made as most wooden cameras, with dovetails (or similar techniques) and glue.

I am asking for help from those who are more familiar with the restoration of wooden field cameras, or simply those who had the chance to develop some knowledge about the construction of different kinds/brands of those cameras.
I have time, willingness to learn, and some tools, plus a 5x7 back and some 13x18 and 5x7 film holders... what i need most are some good advices, to try to avoid some of the errors that first-timers usually do.
BTW, of all metric sizes, 13x18cm is the least different from its non-metric counterpart (5x7"), and i am just curious about the chance to use one size of film with any holder, indifferently.


have fun

CJ

Fotoguy20d
4-Nov-2010, 08:25
It looks like the metal bar for holding the lensboard is missing - it would be on the top. It probably would be fixed. There appear to be two pivoting tabs on the bottom - once the board is in place, they rotate to cover the corners and hold it. You'll see this method on Koronas and something similar on ROCs.

Dan

Vaughn
4-Nov-2010, 11:18
No -- this is nothing like the Deardorff Special copy made by Rajah (at least the one I owned). Take a look at a real Deardorff Special (link below), and you'll see that that front standard (and the rest of the camera) is totally different.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/deardorff/deardorff-special.html

The design of the Rajah 4x5 was very very close to the Deardorff...they copied it exactly, except for the type of material and quality of construction (especially the metal bits).

Vaughn

Ernest Purdum
6-Nov-2010, 11:45
The spring on the bottom of the lensboard housing suggests a common way of inserting a lensboard. You press it in at the bottom, shoving against the spring, which allows you to put it in at the top, behind a small strip of metal which is missing from this camera. The lensboard has to be a very good fit and may need a beveled edge.

J Thrasher
11-Dec-2012, 08:34
I'm a little late to this conversation. I have an 11x14 Rajah-Dorff or Rajadorff that I bought in India in 1998. It's in great condition and works really well. Although I've only ever made a few photos with it. I had a new Bellows made in New Delhi for $30, Made a new lens board here in Georgia a few years ago. I have the 11x14 back and the 8x10 back. I was here last night looking for more info about these camera and this conversation is the only thing google produced about these cameras. Anyone else know any thing about these cameras.







I have purchased a 5x7" Deardorff "copy" on Ebay, and i should get it soon (i hope!).
That's not a real copy, the back is quite different, it's one of those found on early cameras, hinged on the top, and for those wooden plate holders.
On the front standard there is a brand label: VIJAY.
I didn't find any reference on the web, while i found something about RAJAH and PRINZDORFF cameras, that are of indian origin, and loose Deardorff copies, like mine.
The same vendor sells other wooden field camera, some with fixed back, some with front and backk focus, and a few with sliding beds, like a Deardorff.
There was even a D'Dorff copy for 5x17" panoramic film, in far better shape, but the film is almost impossible to find, it was more expensive, and the back was fixed. That would make the adaptation of a new back almost impossible, without permanently modifying the camera. That consideration made me choose the smaller one, so i'd be able to replace the original back with a standard one (i have the choice between two different 5x7" backs, one is a wooden Agfa Ansco, and the other is from a very old Fatif monorail).
Unfortunately the bellows is shot and so badly decayed that it would be very difficult to repair it in a satisfying way. Having the bellows remade is out of question, i would never spend 300 euros for the new bellows, for a camera that was just $127!
I think that i could try to make a replacement myself, i think i have at home some materials that could be used, but i don't trust myself very much, i am afraid that bellows making could be quite an hard task for somebody who never did it. :mad:
Probably adapting some kind of used bellows (that show up quite often on the Bay) would be a much easier task. :)
The camera has a modest bellows extension, and that should make it easier.

Whatever the result, a cheap indian camera should be an ideal candidate for my first restoration project.

I'd be happy to get in touch with somebody who owns one of these indian "copies", or at least to get some more infos about them.
One major question is about the original back. The camera comes with just one plate holder, and i guess that it should be shimmed in some way, to be able to use cut films.
I know nothing about old-style backs/plate holders, but i suppose that the simplest way to actually use the camera would be with standard cut-film holders, which i have already, both in 5x7" and 13x18 metric size, and for which there still is a decent choice of films, both conventional and for graphical arts.


have fun

CJ

Steven Tribe
11-Dec-2012, 12:08
This is only one of the several threads on Indian cameras, history and makers here.
Use the search function.

big_ben_blue
11-Dec-2012, 12:24
This is only one of the several threads on Indian cameras, history and makers here.
Use the search function.
Steven, I think the underlying problem is that one has first to know what to search for. That can be a serious issue for anyone new to the field (what exactly am I looking for, where to start, etc...).

Steven Tribe
11-Dec-2012, 14:30
True enough.
He could start here in the advanced search (title only):

Indian camera makers? (61 contributions)