C41 4x5 Processing Issues

[charlie jay]

Hi Everyone,

I have been processing quite a bit of c41 over the past few weeks using a JOBO CPE-2 and a 2521 drum with a 2509n spiral. I have been using the Tetenal rapid c-41 kit, now onto the 5l after using up the 1l.

I am doing 1 shot development to make sure its consistant, 38degrees.
5 min pre-warm
2 min pre-wash
3.30 dev inc pour in and out
4.30-5 min BLIX (overdoing the 4 min recommended)
8 x 30 sec washes
1 min STAB
Hang to air dry from one corner.

I have felt like it has gone well.. Until today.
I scanned my images 800dpi using an epson v700 and a holder, checked the highlights by darkening the images. This is what i got from 2 of them.. Please note originals are unedited scans, no post-scan color balance etc

Any ideas?
I think the one with the horses was on the inside of the spiral if that helps.. (possible pouring in dev to fast and splashing?

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5656/img004small.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/i/img004small.jpg/)
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2039/img004smalldark.jpg (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/img004smalldark.jpg/)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9030/img001small.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/i/img001small.jpg/)
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4139/img001smalldark.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/img001smalldark.jpg/)

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

Processing C-41 Sheet in a Jobo is very difficult because of the short developing time. Do a two minute presoak after the five minute warm up and shorten the development time to 3:10 minutes. Also try to blow some pressured air thought the lift funnel if the processor has not gotten time to dry between process runs. You can also try to increase rotation speed. I managed to get OK results for 4x5" in my Autolab, but when I went to bigger sheets I had a total failure and in the end I gave up processing C-41 sheets in my processor and now I relay on a good commercial lab to process my valuable sheets.

[al olson]

. . . This is what i got from 2 of them.. Please note originals are unedited scans, no post-scan color balance etc

Any ideas?
I think the one with the horses was on the inside of the spiral if that helps.. (possible pouring in dev to fast and splashing?
[/URL]

You show 4 images but only reference two. I am not seeing development problems with images #1 and #3. Photos #2 and #4 look like some contaminant has gotten on the film.

When you do your eight 30-second washes do you do them in the Jobo? If you do them outside the Jobo, then the Blix is not getting rinsed out of the lift and the prewash is splashing the Blix onto the film until enough water flows down to dilute the chemical.

When you say you do a prewarm I presume that that means you are spinning the tube in the tempering bath before the prewash. Unless the lift is completely dry there is a possibility that chemicals or water from the previous process have leaked into the tube during the 5 minutes you are doing your prewarm.

It could also be caused by using tubes that are not completely dry. It only takes a water drop running across the film before you begin processing to cause a streak that is impossible to remove.

I find it difficult to completely dry the lids or to get all the wetness out of the grooves in the bottoms of the tubes. To prevent water streaks when I am processing more than one batch I use a tube that is completely air dried for each batch and wait for the earlier tubes to air dry before I reuse them.

To speed up the air drying I will wick as much moisture out of the lid and the tube with paper towel before setting them aside and waiting for them to dry. Sometimes I will use a hair dryer to speed the process.

[Jay Drew]

Hi Charles
Image #1 I don't see a problem unless the magentia overall tone is bad.
Image #2 I'm not sure what I'm looking at.Is the image mostly blank. Is that the problem?
Image #3 I don't see a processing problem. The horse appears to have moved during exp.
Image #4 A different solution splashing on the film, & allowed too remain tolong. Try following the above suggestions. Hope this was of some help.

[tgtaylor]

Hi Everyone,

I have been processing quite a bit of c41 over the past few weeks using a JOBO CPE-2 and a 2521 drum with a 2509n spiral. I have been using the Tetenal rapid c-41 kit, now onto the 5l after using up the 1l.

I am doing 1 shot development to make sure its consistant, 38degrees.
5 min pre-warm
2 min pre-wash
3.30 dev inc pour in and out
4.30-5 min BLIX (overdoing the 4 min recommended)
8 x 30 sec washes
1 min STAB
Hang to air dry from one corner.

I Any ideas?


Yep:

1. Skip the pre wash.
2. Take 15 seconds off the developer time - 3:15 including the pour-in and drain time (I allow 15 to 20 second drain time).
3. Increase the bleach time to 6:30. 4:3- to 5 minutes is way too short.
4. Do a 3 minute rinse after the bleach with 6 changes of water.
5. Fix for 6:30 - same time as the bleach.
6. Do a 5 minuite rinse after the fix with 10 changes of water.

Thomas

[Jim C.]

Charlie Jay, it looks like water spotting/staining to me, especially apparent
in picture #4, have you physically examined the negs for stains ?
And did you use Photo Flo in your final wash ?

[Robert Ley]

I will have to agree with Thomas. NO pre-wash and increase the times in bleach and fix. The bleach and fix run to completion and will not hurt in increasing the times. I have done a lot of C-41 in the past few years with my Jobo CPA-2 and have never had a problem with developing defects. I have gone with the 3010 Expert Drum and it works very well. I do not get crazy with drying the drum and lid, just try to get it dry.

Frankly I have never heard of pre-wetting C-41. Everything that I have read about processing C-41 discourages pre-wash. Jobo encourages a pre-warm on the processor, but says nothing about a pre-wash.

[charlie jay]

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your replies.

First things first, image 2 is image 1 darkened down to see the highlight detail clearer.
The same is applicable to 4 and 3. I dropped the levels in photoshop to enable me to see all the detail in the highlights.

Image 1 is very magenta, purely because i haven't colour corrected them yet, they are straight from the scanner.

I don't use a lift as well, sorry, forgot to mention that!

I'll see what its like not doing a pre soak, i did a run yesterday and the images seem fine. I think it was because i used a funnel the first time to pour the dev in and obviously didnt pour the BLIX in quick enough..

hmmm

Im still just really confused about the marks about the hill in image 2.. Thats all i'm really curious about now.

Thanks again,
Charlie

[domaz]

Blix is not so good. Sometimes it can't get all the retained silver out according to a retired Kodak engineer who posts on APUG. Use a different kit.