Franken-Sinar 8x10

[Jimi]

I've been reading up in the archives on this, but...

I am trying to help a friend who has a box of spare Sinar parts. I have scrounged up a rail, a 4x5" F1 front standard, 8X10 normal bellows, a rail clamp, and a 8x10 groundglass and the carrier that goes with that.

The only thing missing from this Franken-Sinar is the rear standard bearer (lower part that connects GG with rail). As I understand it, I could use a 4x5" bearer.

Does it need to be a rear bearer or are front/rear exchangeable? Could I use a P or C part for the (I am only assuming here) rear F parts I already have?

[Drew Wiley]

The rear standard bearer should be 8x10 size, not 4x5. And with the specific F1 front
he has, it will be pretty wobbly raised clear up to 8x10 height, especially with a big
lens.

[Richard Raymond]

Before we go much more on this can you post a photo of the bottom of the 8x10 frame? (The connections are different for F and P cameras) This will show us whether it is an 8x10 frame for an F series or and 8x10 frame for the P and P2 cameras. From there we can provide more useful advice on which bearer will help you with your project
Ric

[Jimi]

Thanks, I will take a few snaps when I am back at the shop next week.

FWIW, there was only a threaded hole on the left-hand side looking at the groundglass from the matte side of the glass. But I'll get the picture as soon as I am able.

[Jimi]

Okay, a bit of darkroom work got in the way...

Here's some really stamp-sized photos of the 8x10 back and the Sinar F front (?) carrier. Hope you can figure out what it is. :D

[Armin Seeholzer]

Yes you need a P or P2 bearer and if you like it more stable and more perfect a strong one the 8x10!

Cheers Armin

[Richard Raymond]

The 8x10 frame goes on a P or P2 standard. It will not fit on the F standards. While it is possible to use this frame on a 4x5 standard you will have to use a lot of shift to get the frame centered over the rail. The 8x10 standard has a centering position for this frame as well as for 4x5 and 5x7 frames. If you don't have either I would recommend getting the 8x10 standard. ebay may have one on the list. Also, Igor in Ohio or Henry in Toronto may have one. I haven't checked their sites and don't really have a preference. By the way, the F standard and frame in the last picture is for the rear, not the front.

regards,
Ric

[Bob McCarthy]

Before we go much more on this can you post a photo of the bottom of the 8x10 frame? (The connections are different for F and P cameras) This will show us whether it is an 8x10 frame for an F series or and 8x10 frame for the P and P2 cameras. From there we can provide more useful advice on which bearer will help you with your project
Ric

The rear bearer on a 4x5 P is a inverted (?) L

The rear bearer on a 8x10 P is a T.

This way everything fits like it should and the offset is centered over the rail when the standard is "zeroed"

While a 8x10 back will (i think) fit on a 4x5 bearer its fairly racked out to the right.

If I were home I take a picture for you, but I'm not.

bob

[Richard Raymond]

Like Bob said!!
For pictures you can check eBay. There is a sinar 8x10 there. The seller says that it is an F but it has a P 4x5 rear standard so it is some sort of Franken C. Good photos on the back so you can see what it looks like.
Ric

[Jimi]

Thanks for the good information! I had a look at the Franken C at the 'Bay. I guess this is cobbled together from 4x5 parts, right?

I don't have much hope of finding anything remotely affordable (in working condition) in the near future but I'll keep an eye out ...

[Frank Petronio]

If you can juggle it, it is usually better to just buy what you need and sell off the parts you don't need. If you follow the "completed" eBay prices for a while you can get a feel for what will readily sell, and if you do accurate, detailed descriptions and good photos then your item will sell easily compared to other listings that aren't as thorough.

Like cars, used Sinar parts cost more than the entire camera, so it's a pretty good strategy for upgrading. If you are willing to hassle with eBay, in 3 or 4 trades you can basically get a free camera and breaking even on your buying/selling.

It's work of course, and the risk is that one bad transaction will mess everything up, so be patient and just buy from the better sellers.

The best deals are when someone is selling a studio kit with lenses and lots of gadgets, those will go for say $1500 because not many people want to spend a lot on eBay. But you can often times double your money because people are a lot more comfortable buying a $3-400 lens than something 5x more.

[Jimi]

Yeah, parts are expensive (like that $1700 8x10 standard on the 'bay right now). If it was for myself (doing this on behalf of an old friend) I'd buy a Norma and be done with it. Much prefer those in every way.

Much obliged for the ideas, Frank!

[Jimi]

To conclude the Franken-Sinar 8x10 story: my friend ended up deciding to sell off the 8x10 parts (bag bellows, normal bellows, groundglass, etc) and a Toyo G 4x5. In the meantime he will be using the 4x5/5x7 he already has, while looking out for a complete 8x10 field camera.

Thanks for your kind help, LFFers!

[cosmicexplosion]

Thanks for the good information! I had a look at the Franken C at the 'Bay. I guess this is cobbled together from 4x5 parts, right?

I don't have much hope of finding anything remotely affordable (in working condition) in the near future but I'll keep an eye out ...

i have a sinar p and have read on their web site that you can use a 4x5 standard as an 8x10, and to me they look the same. i think this is one of the good things about them.

i am not an authority by any means, but just telling what i think i know.

you can buy an old sinar p for 4 or 5oo from ebay then you will have your rear standard and a 4x5 set up if you want to use it!

take a look at the sinar website, they may even be able to help.

[cosmicexplosion]

Yeah, parts are expensive (like that $1700 8x10 standard on the 'bay right now). If it was for myself (doing this on behalf of an old friend) I'd buy a Norma and be done with it. Much prefer those in every way.

Much obliged for the ideas, Frank!



Frank, do you prefer normas because they are more solid?

i think i recall a post by you talking about them i read when i was in my deciding what to buy faze.

I am a bit worried about the teflon or plastic gears, but as i have never used a norma i dont know the difference.

I do have an old toyo 4x5 a 'toyo view deluxe', is it comparable in build but not refinement? THey look of the same ilk, when viewed on ebay.

Cheers

Andrew

[Frank Petronio]

They're all fine cameras that will do what you need them to do. I'm not sure which Toyo you have and I haven't much experience with them but they seem quite capable.

There is nothing wrong with the later Sinars and you'd be hard pressed to wear one out. The plastic and nylon parts are intelligently designed to be serviceable and it's probably good engineering to have nylon and plastic gears that break or give way rather then harder materials that could cause greater damage when they are stressed from over-tightening or drops, etc.

It is just the Sinar Normas have old-world, old fashioned machining and their workmanship is outstanding. The newer cameras are masterpieces of production engineering -- how to make something precise yet less expensive to manufacture. The Normas are precise and were expensive to manufacture.

It's like a 1950s Leica M3 compared to a modern Leica M6 or M7...