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View Full Version : Beginner completing Sinar outfit - help needed



andreios
21-Oct-2010, 14:15
Hello,
being encouraed in the introductions thread, I am now about to bother you with some newbie quesions.
Today I've recieved my new Sinar F1 camera and I need to have cleared out what else do I need to begin shooting with it.

Of course, I need a lens with a lensboard (and shutter).

The camera's monorail is some 28cm long and the bellows could be extended (roughly and quickly measured) up to 17 or 18cm - the bellows themselves are longer, but the monorail isn't. Now, I have been thinking about a 180mm or even 210mm lens - is it so, that I can use lens that length that will match with my bellows extended length? Given this situation - shall I be content with a 150mm lens or buy a monorail extension for use with longer lenses?

Also, the previous owner somehow kept the "thing" that serves to attach the monorail to the tripod. I have a heavy old rigid manfrotto (#075 ?) tripod with manfrotto mono-ball-something (?) head that I've purchased long ago. What do I need to attach the monorail to it? How is that part called?

Apart from that (and apart from the film, film holders, a loupe, a simple light meter, and some dark cloth which I have already or have them on the way) - what else do I need for start?

Many thanks!

andreios

erie patsellis
21-Oct-2010, 14:38
Before I do anything, I'd contact the seller and ask him for the rail clamp, it's part of the camera and not inexpensive to replace.

Bob McCarthy
21-Oct-2010, 14:40
If the ball head has a clamp you need a plate that matches up. Send up a picture of what you have.

Bob

John Koehrer
21-Oct-2010, 14:51
A Rail clamp or tripod block(same thing) is needed and the camera is incomplete without it. Frequently these get separated from a camera & can be 1)hard to find and 2)expensive.

Keep in mind, a 180mm lens needs 180mm between film & lens to focus at infinity, to focus closer the lens needs to move away from the film. With a 250mm the same thing applies. The focal length is 250mm at infinity sooooo to get closer you need more rail etc.

andreios
21-Oct-2010, 14:58
I'll try to get some pics online - the only digital device capable of taking pictures is my htc phone.. But it has a standard plate with a screw - I've been using it with my canon 20D occasionally before I happily sold it.

andreios
21-Oct-2010, 15:28
Here are the shots of my tripod's head.. they are terrible, but for better you'd have to wait till I develop my still unfinished roll of film.. :)

PS: that rubber cover is rubbish now, I have new one somewhere but until now there was no motivation to restore it :)


46371

46372

Bob McCarthy
21-Oct-2010, 16:08
You have the plate mounted in the head. The lever I see locks it to the clamp. Remove the plate and clean it up as best as you can. Fix the plate to your camera.

Your done. This is an older design and if the plate fits the Sinar. Youre good to go.

B

Bob McCarthy
21-Oct-2010, 18:23
then again upon rereading the original post, you may be asking about this. This is pretty much universal to all sinars and should be readily obtainable. Why you didn't get it with the camera seem to be an issue. It's part of the camera and unless you got the camera for next to nothing, I'd call the seller and insist on the part.

Sorry about the quickie cell phone shot.

bob

rdenney
21-Oct-2010, 22:18
The tripod rail clamp issue has been answered, but not the monorail length issue. Sinar supplies a 12" monorail with all their cameras. This is the standard rail, with black triangular splines under the aluminum end caps. Those caps screw off the rail. You need a 6" extension rail for longer lenses. This will have one red spline, which is what you turn to screw the extension rail onto either end of the 12" base rail. You can add as many extension rails as you need. The extension rails come in 6", 12" and 18" lengths, but having two 6" extensions is more flexible than having one 12" extension. You'll probably only need one at first. These are not uncommon or particularly expensive on the used market.

Unlike the tripod clamp, they were not part of the original camera kit, so one would expect to have to buy them separately.

Rick "who carries a couple of 6" extensions in his bag" Denney

andreios
21-Oct-2010, 22:52
Thank you!

Bob, yes, this is the part I am missing! I've bought the camera for one hundred and something €, which isn't particularly next to nothing but after looking at ebay prices not that bad either. I've contacted the seller, we shall see what he does think, but I think I will not be making much fuss about it.. I don't have the strength to make fuss about cameras as well.. other things I have to deal with are enough.. :)

Rick - as for the rail - after what you have described and after I've been looking at some rails on the evil bay, I think my camera is actually on one 12" extension rail... Funny..

Anyway, thanks to all for help, I'd better look round some auction sites... :)

rdenney
22-Oct-2010, 00:18
Rick - as for the rail - after what you have described and after I've been looking at some rails on the evil bay, I think my camera is actually on one 12" extension rail... Funny..

It will work fine even if it is an extension rail. The difference is easy to tell, however. The base rail has black splines on each end, and the extension rails have red splines on only one end (the other end fits over the spline on another rail).

In other words, the base rail is male on both ends, and the extension rails are male on one end and female on the other.

Your seller might find the tripod block still mounted to a tripod. I keep mine on the tripod and remove the camera from the block when I put it back in the case. With the open-top tripod adapter, that is standard practice.

Rick "thinking the price pretty good, especially by European standards" Denney

andreios
22-Oct-2010, 03:10
Rick, thank you. Yes, it does work, so I'll look for another extension or for the base rail - what can I find cheaper. :)
As for the rail clamp, the seller says he doesn't have it, perhaps he kept it for other sinar cameras or I don't know.. I'll find one for myself.

And I hope I'll find an affordable lens as well. Is it reasonable to buy a 180mm or a 210mm, or shall I stick to 150mm? On other formats, I prefer normal lenses or even a bit tighter (e. g. on my olympus OM slr I am very comfortable with 85mm lens for almost general use).

Bob McCarthy
22-Oct-2010, 05:13
I would guess your camera may be an assemblage from a parts bin. That is no handicap. not at all, assuming the parts are in good condition. Advantage of a modular design.

I would suggest you use the 150 alone for a while. Then when your familiar with the camera you can make reasonable choices. Do no assume your 35mm experience will be the same from a lens vantage point. The 85 is roughly equivalent to a 300 in 4x5.

I use 90 + 180 for my casual walkabout kit and leave most of my lenses at home. If I need a little longer, well there is plenty of negative for a tighter crop.

bob

andreios
22-Oct-2010, 05:21
Well, maybe it is assembled from parts, but I have to say, that all the parts are really mint, as new.. No sign of wear or tear anywhere.

I do plan using one lens only for a while, and invest more in film than other lenses, so I will remain open to 150mm lenses as well...

Thanks to all for answers and help provided. Much appreciated. I am very much looking forward to the point when my camera will be complete and I will be able to share with you my first humble LF attempts.

andreios

andreios
26-Oct-2010, 10:08
A little bump..
The problem of the rail clamp seems to be solved thanks to a very kind member here.
Another member is attempting to find the rail for me. A lens is on it's way, a lensboard will follow soon.

Now I have this question in my mind - how about lens shades? I saw several shots with "bellows-like" shades. Are these "proper" shades? Is it better to find a lens hood to screw it on the lens or to use the bellows? If the bellows - are they regular bellows or something special? And how do I attach them to the sinar camera?
Thanks..

Richard Raymond
26-Oct-2010, 10:46
Andrej,
The bellows shade on the sinar is just a regular bellows held on with a rod and two clips. Looking at the front of the camera the rod is inserted into the hole in the upper right corner of the frame. Many folks use old bellows with corner leaks for this. The rod is generally available on ebay.
Ric

rdenney
28-Oct-2010, 10:36
A little bump..
The problem of the rail clamp seems to be solved thanks to a very kind member here.
Another member is attempting to find the rail for me. A lens is on it's way, a lensboard will follow soon.

Now I have this question in my mind - how about lens shades? I saw several shots with "bellows-like" shades. Are these "proper" shades? Is it better to find a lens hood to screw it on the lens or to use the bellows? If the bellows - are they regular bellows or something special? And how do I attach them to the sinar camera?
Thanks..

Depending on how aggressively you want to shade the lens, there are several options ranging across a spectrum of prices and capabilities.

The high-end shading approach is to use a multipurpose standard (similar to or maybe the same as your front standard). That is mounted on the rail in front of the lens standard. A standard bellows is attached to your front standard using a short rod and a single bellows clip, and at the other end of the bellows to the multipurpose standard. That may be uses as-is or you can install either a barn-doors shade or an adjustable shade mask to the front of the multipurpose standard. This is a rather extreme shading technique that allows you to match the edges of the frame with a lot of precision, even when using very long lenses or long macro extensions. The multipurpose standard in this arrangement can also be used for mounting Sinar's filter system.

The next step down uses two bellows clips and a standard bellow. Using a "jointed rod" allows the ends of the shading bellows to be moved to track the movements of the camera. The jointed rod will get in the picture with really short lenses, but with normal and longer lenses this approach provides just about all the movement flexibility of the high-end system but without the ability to mask it right down to the edges of the frame.

The cheapest approach is the easiest for most folks, and it's the one I usually use in the field (though I do have a jointed rod). Just use a single rod and two bellows clips, plus a standard bellows. A short rod will not interfere with short lenses, and the rods do come in different lengths. This doesn't allow movements, but for most situations where movements are minor that is no real weakness. You adjust to the focal length in use by moving the front of the bellows in and out on the rod. The shortest rod is 4" and the Sinar part number is 472.61. The bellows clips are plastic, but well made, and the part number for them is 473.31. You'll need two. You can use any bellows you wish with these--I have one that has been patched that I bring along for shading, and as a backup for my regular set.

Rick "who prefers a compendium shade in most situations, especially with older lenses" Denney

andreios
28-Oct-2010, 13:19
Ric and Rick, thanks for replies, I'll add the compendium shade to my outfit, though not too hastily, it seems that we will be seeing too little sun in these parts in months to come. Anyway, they might prove useful, the more because the lens that is on it's way to me is an elderly single coated Fujinon.

rdenney
28-Oct-2010, 16:52
Ric and Rick, thanks for replies, I'll add the compendium shade to my outfit, though not too hastily, it seems that we will be seeing too little sun in these parts in months to come. Anyway, they might prove useful, the more because the lens that is on it's way to me is an elderly single coated Fujinon.

Just start with the short rod and the bellows clips when you are ready.

Rick "simple, effective, and fairly cheap" Denney