I need a critique of this Photo

[minesix66]

This is one of my first pics I have taken with a large format camera. I used fuji provia 100f and an old sekonic light meter. I scanned with an epson 4490 and did tons of adjustments. I would like to hang this photo in my bedroom. I know it is nothing spectacular but I want to see how a 4x5 image looks at 36 x 24". I plan on either doing a canvas frame print or print on Fuji Pearl. If it is not worth it let me know.

One of my friends told me it was too dark and I should invest the money on a better picture.

I did take a vertical shot using Kodak Tmax 400 and it did turn out better but I like the color version more.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1414/5102686814_a9d9c2f34c_z.jpg

I notice a slight green tint on the left and right sides.

[jmooney]

HTML does work in posts I don't think. Here ya go:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1414/5102686814_a9d9c2f34c.jpg

[Brian Ellis]

Very nice photograph, especially for one of your first with a LF camera. But what appears to be a selection line all along the right hand edge of the stream is too obvious. I also think your friend is right in the sense that it looks underexposed and so you've lost too much detail in the rocks or bushes or whatever is in the lower right quarter and upper left quarter of the photograph for my tastes. Others might like it the way it is but for a landscape photograph like this I'd prefer not to see large areas of pure black. If there's any detail there in the film you might be able to bring it out with the shadow/highlight adjustment in Photoshop if that's what you're using. Of course we're seeing it on a monitor, the print could look very different.

Nobody else can tell you if it's worth enlarging and hanging, that's up to you. If you like it then why not?

[Jack Dahlgren]

I think I'd crop it to square format - leaving off the right side of the image which doesn't have much of interest. That would brighten it up a bit as well.

I also think it is missing a lot of shadow detail. Whether this was lost in post processing, or is a result of a monitor not being calibrated (might even be mine) is probably something you want to explore with a test print.

If you like it, print it.

[h2oman]

"Nobody else can tell you if it's worth enlarging and hanging, that's up to you. If you like it then why not?"

Brian can always be relied on for good, commonsense advice. I would say this, however - before investing a lot of $$ in this (unless you have lots of spare cash laying around), wait 6 months. I found that images I was enthralled with initially lost their luster after I made some better ones!

That said, I like the image. I think Jack's suggestion of a square crop is a good one.

[David Aimone]

Ditto on the square crop--would help the composition as well I think.

[Drew Wiley]

I'd put the original on a strong lightbox and look through a loupe to see how much
detail can or cannot be recovered from the deep shadows.

[bvstaples]

I agree that the the shadows seem plugged up. but then it's hard to judge on monitors. I'd get out a loupe and a light table and look in those dark areas to see if you captured any subtle detail, If so they can be teased out in Photoshop. But being one of your your first pic I imagine it's just underexposed. By the way, I think you did pretty well on composition.

One thing I noticed that no one else mentioned is that the image seems a little tipped to me. It seems to be tipped down to the right. I don't know why I feel this way, as the horizon line of the stream is horizontal. Maybe I'm just a little tipped to the left!

If you can afford it I say go ahead and make the print. Worst thing that happens is in the near future you revisit the place and take a much better picture, and hang that one instead.


Brian

[minesix66]

Thanks guys, that is what I thought. Yes the slide is underexposed and I tried to bring out detail as much as possible in the shadows. When I did this it didn't seem like there wasn't any true blacks left and the dark areas had shades of red and looked too bright or a washed out look.

Here is the black and white version with the tmax 400 in vertical.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5059439621_c00308828a_b.jpg

[Policar]

This is with the caveat that I can't even get my LF camera to take a single photo (despite the fact that I have a pretty awesome set-up!) and so your image is much better than anything I've produced in LF, but you asked for feedback:

This shot isn't bad overall but I think you're dealing with a scene that has a contrast ratio too extreme for your chosen emulsion…the shot is about a stop underexposed (maybe) but the whites are already clipping and the water is compositionally significant so overexposure isn't the answer, either… I think the best way to shoot this scene would be under different light or at another time of the day (or with another film). If the shadows are that blocked up over that large a portion of the image it will be an issue in the print.

The composition is okay but you have some problems. As others noted, the right edge of the frame is much too dark and throws the image off balance. The leading lines from the river draw your eyes strongly to the bottom left corner as does the fact that the river basically has a black circle surrounding it. It can be tough to shoot down a river because (unless you're in the river or above it) you basically have to live with a composition with the river leading your eyes to a corner, which creates an open and somewhat chaotic composition unless you can somehow balance it, particularly with subject matter as dense with detail as this scene. This may also be why the horizon looks tilted, either that or it really is tilted.

I figure the center of the river is your subject and it's in the center (roughly) and the brightest thing in the image so that's good--your eye is drawn to it. The bright sky balances it out okay vertically, but the sky also forms leading lines pulling left--so the brightness of the image is very frame left heavy and the underexposed areas in the right side become that much more egregious.

Imo, I would have shot this scene vertically, dodged the center of the river (which I'd place between center and the upper third) so your eye goes to it immediately. Then I'd burn the bottom left corner of the river so it's no longer pulling you out of the frame. I'd also dodge some of the leaves in the bottom right to balance out the water and bring up the shadow detail in general.

Here's a really rough version of how I'd approach it:

EDIT: Just saw the black and white one. It looks way better to me. I'd brighten up the brightest areas of the bottom right and darken the bottom left of the river a little but otherwise it's much, much better (in my opinion).

[Darin Boville]

I don't know what the color one is trying to be...on the black and white version I'm drawn not so much to the river or ledge but to the light coming through the trees. The rest distracts and weakens this feeling, so here would be my variation on your image (an extreme crop).

[Policar]

Yeah, that b&w crop is the strongest of all, by far.

[Vaughn]

One thing to consider are those small pure black areas -- if there is no detail there in there, then those areas will become quite large areas of no info when enlarged. Still might work -- look at the work of Brett Weston and his use of black space.

But changing the scale of an image changes that image -- sometimes for the better, sometimes not.

For the record, I like the square, too. :)

Vaughn

PS -- for my tastes, the original image has far too much contrast -- makes the existing light look unnatural and fights with the subject.

[eddie]

i like policar's version of the color image the best of the color ones.

the B&W is better overall .

[minesix66]

Thanks guys,

When I took the picture I felt the right ledge would have led the persons eye to the river because of the color of the leaves.

Looking at other pictures I felt standard practice is to have the river run off of the corner of the frame and that would be better than running through the center. I can see how the square crops look better, to me it emphasis the river.

Is it better to be more in the center of the rivers (waterfalls) when taking pictures? I read through the thread and alot of people have commented about the angle that I took or is it because the sides are too dark like discussed.

I understand now in a new point of view about how it is the dark sides can through off the persons view.

I also like Policecars version but when I tried to dodge my blacks didn't get bright like how his did, they turned more of a grey-reddish. In photoshop I used a fill layer with 50% grey for my dodging and buring. Should I have used the dodge tool itself?
Me friend mentioned to me that I could have used a fill flash and still kept the shutter open. This would have opened up the darks and it would have balanced it out more. Did anyone ever try this?

Is it better to be more in the center of the rivers (waterfalls) when taking pictures? I read through the thread and alot of people have commented about the angle that I took or is it because the sides are too dark like discussed.

[Bill_1856]

I see nothing wrong with it, except that it's going to be a bitch to print.
There's nothing you can do with it, no way you can crop it which will turn it into a "Great" image, so hang it over your bed intact as an excellent reminder of that day you were enjoying yourself when you took it. It's the pleasure that matters.

[Brian Ellis]

Just a reminder to you that while several people have said one version or another is "the best" they've neglected to mention that they're expressing an opinion based on their own personal tastes. Whatever version you like is what's important and in that respect nobody else's opinion is any better than your own. It's your photograph, you're the one who will hang it or put it in a box or whatever. And just to show how opinions can differ, I don't care at all for the version that several people said was "the best." So pick whichever one you like and go with it (or don't as you see fit) and try not to be overly influenced by what someone else tells you is "the best."

[Jack Dahlgren]

Thanks guys,

When I took the picture I felt the right ledge would have led the persons eye to the river because of the color of the leaves.

Looking at other pictures I felt standard practice is to have the river run off of the corner of the frame and that would be better than running through the center. I can see how the square crops look better, to me it emphasis the river.

Is it better to be more in the center of the rivers (waterfalls) when taking pictures? I read through the thread and alot of people have commented about the angle that I took or is it because the sides are too dark like discussed.

I understand now in a new point of view about how it is the dark sides can through off the persons view.

Is it better to be more in the center of the rivers (waterfalls) when taking pictures? I read through the thread and alot of people have commented about the angle that I took or is it because the sides are too dark like discussed.

I don't think that you should be concerned about "standard practice". Standard practice can sometimes be good, but it can also be boring, or it might not fit the particulars of your subject or your tastes.

I think that the main reason for suggesting different cropping is due to the featureless blacks, so you are seeing them getting chopped off in most of the versions here. Is that because the point of view is wrong, or because there is no visual interest in those areas. I think the latter. And I think if you had better light in the foreground you could include more of it. I would argue against fill flash though. It tends to look artificial.

But as Bill and Brian have said, it is your vision, your taste and your money. Do what brings you the best results.

[minesix66]

I see nothing wrong with it, except that it's going to be a bitch to print.
There's nothing you can do with it, no way you can crop it which will turn it into a "Great" image, so hang it over your bed intact as an excellent reminder of that day you were enjoying yourself when you took it. It's the pleasure that matters.

Yes, you were right. I had it printed at CostCo at 20x16 (the staff there are really into making a good print) and it did print out dark like you guys mentioned. I do calibrate my monitor and use the icc profiles. They printed on a luster paper with an Epson 7880.

I will go to this area again, I just didn't want to drop 250.00 on a cibachrome print. I would rather spend the money on a better subject.

I do appreciate everyone's opinions.

[venchka]

Have you considered a drum scan?

[awldune]

If you have an emotional attachment to this image, you might try to get a better scan to get more shadow detail. The 4490 is not especially known for its Dmax, is it? You might also try two-pass scanning.

[Jon Shiu]

I think the photo is fine, no cropping needed. It is a bit dark and harsh feeling, though. Just use a little Photoshop Highlight/Shadow adjustment.

Jon

[Greg Miller]

Sorry to nitpick, but the image has an odd color cast to it as well. That bothers me more than the blocked up shadows. The water on the far left has 0% yellow and the yellowish water in the middle has 0% magenta. The yellow leaves have 0% blue. 0% of a primary color is highly unusual in nature. My guess is you got a bit overzealous with the saturation slider.

I agree with Policar. The scene has too much contrast for slide film. Go back on a bright but overcast day and shoot again.

[Brett Laker]

A bit late in the day......

I played around with the cropping and felt that more emphasis was needed on where the water meets the trees in the distance. So I cropped down. I used curves to bring up the shadow areas a little on the rock area in foreground and middle distance undergrowth. I burnt the water down a bit towards the foreground. Finally I boosted contrast and saturation on the leaves in foreground on rock to break up this dark area further. I slightly altered the colours of the leaves-taking the green out and making them redder to harmonise with the foreground leaves.

OK I have tampered a lot with the picture, but it was fun doing it.

Brett

[Noah A]

I don't think your scanner will be able to pull all of the available detail out of the dense shadows. A drum scan is definitely the way to go, especially if you plan to print large.

The color in general seems a bit off to me.

If you lighten up the lower right corner, then I think the composition would work better because there would be detail there instead of dark, blocked-up areas.