Puyo lens

[swmcl]

Hi,

Could someone hazard a guess as to what this lens might be?

The auction site: #150502873713

I'm guessing an RR of some sort.

The Vade Mecum doesn't help me much - what would the images be like?

Cheers,

Steve

[CCHarrison]

It is the Objectif d’Artiste Formule Anachromatique lens, see

http://www.antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenses.html

Dan

[goamules]

Price just went up.

[Steven Tribe]

There is something in VM, I think.

"what would the images be like?" - they would be very expensive images!

[Louis Pacilla]

"Price just went up."

Yep. Your correct Garret.

Just can't figure out why the same folks with interest in such optics would announce it to the crowd.

I've been watching since it was listed. You did not see me bring the lens to the attention of the competition :D .

Peace
Louis

[Jim Galli]

2 opposing non achromatic single glass menisci. The increments by the aperture are such that 'if your eye see's best focus here, and you're this far away, you should move it to here for chemical focus'. What you see is not what you get. There's a book that explains it........in french. I have 2 of them. Irresistable to folks who have a need for gadgets that are nearly impossible to use. It's the potential that you pay the large $$$$ for. If you have one of these, you just KNOW the potential to make world shattering pictures is at hand, if you could ever figure out how it works.

[Mark Sawyer]

I had a bid in, thinking of upping it, but I doubt I'd be in the ballpark. It looks smallish for my style anyways...

I'm not convinced it's the Objectif d’Artiste Formule Anachromatique lens. The nomenclature is different from what I've seen on other examples (all online). And I'm not sure what the "Tele" refers to on the current lens. It would be nice if the buyer were an active photographer and posted his/her results somewhere.

A lovely little hors d'oeuvres, but I'm on a cup-o-ramen budget... :)

[Mark Sawyer]

Irresistable to folks who have a need for gadgets that are nearly impossible to use. It's the potential that you pay the large $$$$ for. If you have one of these, you just KNOW the potential to make world shattering pictures is at hand, if you could ever figure out how it works.

The real value of these lenses is in not having one. Then you have something to blame your lousy pictures on! :D

Seriously, the lens is seldom the limiting factor. Quite a few of us, especially in the crowd that follows these lenses, have made or seen work from magnifying glasses and such that stand along side the results of these lenses. Identical, no, but in the same ballpark. What they lack is history, pedigree, status, and that shiny brass barrel with the fancy French inscription that translates literally to "objective of the artist", but spiritually to "ooh-lah-lah!"

Such lenses are not at all necessary. Just an expensive indulgence, especially in these times.

Still, I look at them and sigh... :)

[seven]

well, i have just one, but can confirm Mr. Galli's opinion :)
btw the one at auction seems to be a 5x7 lens

[CCHarrison]

I'm not convinced it's the Objectif d’Artiste Formule Anachromatique lens.)

On second look, you are right - its not the same. I missed the other photos showing the imprinting on the lens - it certainly looks similiar to the Objectif d'Artiste, but clearly its something else, although related. Another interesting feature is the serial number of the lens on ebay, its 36147... the Objectif d'Artiste lens on my page http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenses.html is 36153... close... Tele Anachrom e d'Atelier doesnt bring up any google data.... anyone ?

Note that # 1 size usually means 13x18 format for Puyo/Darlot

Dan

[Steven Tribe]

Alternative title for different customer segment? Andy of Andy's Treasure Barn believes items should be clean! Really nasty clean-up.

[Mark Sawyer]

$610 was pretty cheap, all things considered...

[goamules]

Hey, I was $10 off my estimate that it would hit $600. Must be too funky/unknown to be cultish.

[community1313]

Hello dear friends, I am the one who purchased that lens, I do believe I got it for a very decent price, the $$ is cheap and my babe broke my heart, a man needs to recover the way he can (my bank account won't).
It's an anachromat, that means the blur comes by diffraction instead of spherical aberration and it's a good thing the seller did not advertise it as a "puyo" directly..I don't think it's any different from the "objectif d'artiste" since the later is an anachromat too..Also being french and living near morlaix made me curious about Emile constant puyo, I drive in these landscapes and Brittany, what a beautiful part of France!
Six month ago I got a mint cooke (12 inch F 4.5 serie II), a beautiful beast, my machine guy is making a ring so I can mount it on a sinar 8X10, the seller spelled it "cook", I was never going to afford it but the missing e saved me a lot of bucks!
As for comparing a lens to another, du you drink wine to get drunk and do you say that your 5 years old child paints like Picasso? You can do great art with nothing but such a lens is, in itself, a work of art!
My problem is that here in France my people are retarded, we don't have a great photographic culture and everything is so laid back, my main struggle is to find people to have fun with..and Paris is so expensive it's hard to just find "free time"

[seven]

congratulations :)
please post some pictures when you can.

[Hugo Zhang]

Hello dear friends, I am the one who purchased that lens, I do believe I got it for a very decent price, the $$ is cheap and my babe broke my heart, a man needs to recover the way he can (my bank account won't).
It's an anachromat, that means the blur comes by diffraction instead of spherical aberration and it's a good thing the seller did not advertise it as a "puyo" directly..I don't think it's any different from the "objectif d'artiste" since the later is an anachromat too..Also being french and living near morlaix made me curious about Emile constant puyo, I drive in these landscapes and Brittany, what a beautiful part of France!
Six month ago I got a mint cooke (12 inch F 4.5 serie II), a beautiful beast, my machine guy is making a ring so I can mount it on a sinar 8X10, the seller spelled it "cook", I was never going to afford it but the missing e saved me a lot of bucks!

I remember that "cook" lens as I was bidding on it too, way below your price which is about the same you paid today for this lens factoring the US dollar and Euro rate today. It was one of the most beautiful Cooke lenses I saw. It was massive. :)

[community1313]

Thanks, massive it is but not so bad, the only lens I can't mount is the 480 mm Nicola perscheid triplet, this one is for wood camera only!
If you are in monsters check the item 160490063649
350 mm F 2.5, planar formula (schneider xenon), 18 kilos!
I will pass on that one since I have the Darlot but I was up to the challenge, I have a Zeiss biotar and it's amazing so I can picture the effect on 8X10 !

And yes I would love to try the Darlot with color film, I would love rainbowy off colors!

[eddie]

my main struggle is to find people to have fun with..and Paris ......

next time i am in paris lets go shoot. i had some great times last june when i was there.

okay. can some one post what the lens formula is? a picture of it? i think i got one! a big F#$%er for sure! lets talk. and then we can all try and figure out how to shoot with it.

based on the description i think this is the same formula. it is french for sure ( i bought it in belgium from a guy who got it in paris.....), but no maker's name.

eddie

ps. $610 is a steal. well done!

[Mark Sawyer]

I'm glad it went to someone who will appreciate it and use it! Hope to see images from it soon!

And speaking of mis-titled lenses, this little 5.5" f/3.6 Petzval arrived in today's mail. I just cleaned it up and put it on a lensboard...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260648561402&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

[community1313]

That's what I mount my medium sized lens on, arca swiss view camera with a double bellow and a custom fit sinar shutter, and in this an eidoscope bought in France from an antic dealer, like new in box !
The camera is just so practical, it's like a large format nikon!

[community1313]

you guys should check this French flea market webb site, le boncoin, French people will be helpful enough to ship overseas, nice deals like this:
http://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/137557036.htm?ca=12_s

[Jim Galli]

next time i am in paris lets go shoot. i had some great times last june when i was there.

okay. can some one post what the lens formula is? a picture of it? i think i got one! a big F#$%er for sure! lets talk. and then we can all try and figure out how to shoot with it.

based on the description i think this is the same formula. it is french for sure ( i bought it in belgium from a guy who got it in paris.....), but no maker's name.

eddie

ps. $610 is a steal. well done!

Eddie, the formula is here (http://dioptrique.info/OBJECTIFS5/00217/00217.HTM). Wonder why the name and other markings are gone. $600 surprises me. That's a nice bargain. I look forward to pictures.

[swmcl]

I wish to apologise if my actions led to a raised price! I guess I'm in the position of thinking / acting for the buyers best interests at this point. If / when I ever sell something I guess I'd change my mind! How weak and selfish I am.

Then again, those who bid before the 30 second mark do actually push prices up! :)

Best wishes to you all.

[Marko Trebusak]

That's what I mount my medium sized lens on, arca swiss view camera with a double bellow and a custom fit sinar shutter, and in this an eidoscope bought in France from an antic dealer, like new in box !
The camera is just so practical, it's like a large format nikon!

Ha, so I'm not the only one using Arca for these old objectives! I made a bit of a modification to be able to use Sinar shutter as it was intended. Enjoy your new lens! And a bit of correction: instead of spherical aberration this formula uses chromatic aberration of its softness. I made a replica of it, and it's hard to use indeed (and BDW Mark, it is of a telephoto design: positive lens infront and negative at the back). But when photos come out as they should, they are nice indeed.

Cheers,
Marko

[goamules]

I'd like to try to answer some of the questions about this obscure lens. Thanks for posting that layout Jim. As we can see though the barrel looks a lot like a regular Darlot petzval, the lenses are quite different.

Below is catalog diagram for the Pulligny & Puyo. You can see the focus mechanism also works totally differently from a regular radial drive lens. In the Puyo & Pulligny, the spacing of the two elements is changed by the knob, as opposed to the two lenses moving together in a conventional Darlot petzval.

From THE SOFT-FOCUS LENS AND ANGLO-AMERICAN PICTORIALISM, a thesis of one of our members:
"The lenses of Puyo and Pulligny, because the visual and chemical focus did not coincide, could be difficult to focus reliably...however as they had devised an ingenious method of making the focus correction. The instructions for use are ... a carefully calculated scale will be engraved on the mount and the position of the stop after focussing will indicate automatically the number of millimeters the lens has to be racked back." (Young, W. R. 2008, p186)

[Jim Galli]

I'd like to try to answer some of the questions about this obscure lens. Thanks for posting that layout Jim. As we can see though the barrel looks a lot like a regular Darlot petzval, the lenses are quite different.

Below is catalog diagram for the Pulligny & Puyo. You can see the focus mechanism also works totally differently from a regular radial drive lens. In the Puyo & Pulligny, the spacing of the two elements is changed by the knob, as opposed to the two lenses moving together in a conventional Darlot petzval.

From THE SOFT-FOCUS LENS AND ANGLO-AMERICAN PICTORIALISM, a thesis of one of our members:
"The lenses of Puyo and Pulligny, because the visual and chemical focus did not coincide, could be difficult to focus reliably...however as they had devised an ingenious method of making the focus correction. The instructions for use are ... a carefully calculated scale will be engraved on the mount and the position of the stop after focussing will indicate automatically the number of millimeters the lens has to be racked back." (Young, W. R. 2008, p186)

You're conrfusing two different possible puyo designs. The objectif de artiste is the common one and is different from the landscape puyo that you've included. On the objectif de artiste the opposing menisci are fixed just the same as a normal petzval. You focus for best visual focus with the 'scale' at 0 and then you calculate the distance to your subject and move the scale to the indicated distance. Fairly simple and I've had effective photos in spite of my joking about the difficulty. They are fun to work with if you enjoy a challenge.


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Darlot4444Sale/MagicLamp_1s.jpg
magic lamp / 385mm puyo anachromatique objectif de artiste

[goamules]

It is confusing differentiating some of these. That's good info on the difference. So the one that just sold, labeled "Tele Anachro...d'Atelier...Puyo" that was in the original post, is fixed? And the ones labeled "... Artiste" are the same, and fixed too?

[CCHarrison]

Garrett, I believe your cut out is for the L'adjustable Landscape lens.

Dan

[Jim Galli]

It is confusing differentiating some of these. That's good info on the difference. So the one that just sold, labeled "Tele Anachro...d'Atelier...Puyo" that was in the original post, is fixed? And the ones labeled "... Artiste" are the same, and fixed too?

The ones I've seen the most, L'Objectif de Artiste are fixed and have opposing + I + elements, while the tele I think has a positive and negative that are fixed, and the landscape adjustable is like the diagram you included.

The inscription on the tele one from yesterday confused me though.

[eddie]

They are fun to work with if you enjoy a challenge.
]

hey jim ,

can you save me some film....do i focus closer (more bellows extension) to get chemical focus or the opposite. about how much for a give FL? what is your focal length and how much do you adjust it?

thanks for the help.

eddie

[goamules]

hey jim ,

can you save me some film....do i focus closer (more bellows extension) to get chemical focus or the opposite. about how much for a give FL? what is your focal length and how much do you adjust it?

thanks for the help.

eddie

Eddie,
Adjust half as far as twice the focal length. Either way, in or out. Glad to help.

[cowanw]

Eddie,
Adjust half as far as twice the focal length. Either way, in or out. Glad to help.

Half of 2X the focal length IS the focal length?:confused:
Regards
Bill

[Steven Tribe]

Isn't it 1/400th of the focal length added to the visual focussing length to obtain the actinic in-focus position?

Example, 150mm lens - sharp visual focus at 147mm - actinic focus is at 147.375mm.
I am surprised more objectives didn't have the fixed built in adjustment lever that the Rodenstock Bistigmat had.

[goamules]

Half of 2X the focal length IS the focal length?:confused:
Regards
Bill

Exactly.

[cowanw]

Exactly.

But that means you adjust your lens which is at infinity down to zero bellows length or 2X bellows length. (either way in or out) for chemical focus
Regards
Bill
Or am I missing an in joke?

[goamules]

I was just joking with Eddie.

[Emil Schildt]

Isn't it 1/400th of the focal length added to the visual focussing length to obtain the actinic in-focus position?

Example, 150mm lens - sharp visual focus at 147mm - actinic focus is at 147.375mm.
I am surprised more objectives didn't have the fixed built in adjustment lever that the Rodenstock Bistigmat had.

AHA!! so that's what that is.... I was wondering.

about the focusing. there's something here:

http://lensn2shutter.com/busch-vademecum.html

[community1313]

I the humble buyer received the mystery item today and when my week of family gathering ends I will dutyfully open and clean the lens and mount it ! I will let you guys informed of the improvement (can't be harder than trying to understand my daughter when she speaks her barbaric celtic)
Besides from the link posted here I think it's the later edition of objectif d'artiste, "le nouveau" ..

[Steven Tribe]

Would that be Breton, Manx, Irish, Welsh, Gaelic or Cornish (which would be a sensation!)?
Remember to send good photos til CCHarrison for soft lens update!

[community1313]

Would that be Breton, Manx, Irish, Welsh, Gaelic or Cornish (which would be a sensation!)?
Remember to send good photos til CCHarrison for soft lens update!

Demat, That would be breton!

[community1313]

Today I learned a bit more about "chemical focus" and I am going to try to make it more understandable here.
Chemical focus is just a name even if it sounds your film or plate are going to catch fire or something, it's a convention to select focus on the blue image, makes sense if you need contrast. See the puyo lens is made to keep some chromatic aberration, there are two types of aberration, lateral and longitudinal, since the lens is corrected for spherical aberration it makes sense to consider the maker just kept the longitudinal, the image will be separated in different colors with different planes of focus, one after the other, "a la queue leu leu" (excuse my french), so if you focus on blues the reds will be blurry, it's a question of choice! If like me you experienced infra red photography you must be used to defocus a bit when you shoot infared film, some SLR lens even have a scale for this but on apochromatic lens there is no need for such a chemical focus.
Apparently Darlot/Puyo had a demi anachromat (like the P//S).
I can't wait to shoot color, it should produce color halos but no rainbow fringes (that would be a lateral chromatic aberration)
I hope this was helpful and anyone correct me if I am wrong!

[community1313]

Found this excellent article..
http://etudesphotographiques.revues.org/index2676.html

[Steven Tribe]

Interesting images and nice to see Puyo as an artist rather than a name on a brass barrel. Portraits appear to age better than landscapes!

[eddie]

so can i extrapolate that if i focus on the blues ten the blue will be in focus? will this work for any color or just blue?

i will try and translate the above article.

keep us posted.

eddie

[cowanw]

so can i extrapolate that if i focus on the blues ten the blue will be in focus? will this work for any color or just blue?

i will try and translate the above article.

keep us posted.

eddie

Yes it works for any colour. In bygone days the plates were only sensitive to blue light but the focusing was done by white light as this is what our eyes are sensitive to. So adjustment for focus was required. Todays wet plate will be like this
As todays film is sensitive to all colours of light, the lens will show the effects of both focus and non focus.
You may pick a colour by filtering, say with a yellow filter, in which case wysiwyg. and no focus alteration is required because you are now not focusing by white light. Or you may choose a blue filter to simulate the nature of blue sensitive film.

Regards
Bill

[community1313]

So mystery gets deeper, the lens functions like the landscape one, what looks like a focusing knob is actually changing the distance between the two simple elements :D
The range is 45 mm and there is a scale on the lens. Aperture goes from 9 to 50 (is this actual "modern" apertures?) Serial number is 36147. Barrel is aluminium and constuction quality excellent (I am always dazed about how well made those lens are, hand made!), it's indeed written "tele anachromate d'atelier" "constant puyo"
Glass is signed darlot but no date, just the serial number.
I always get the odd one, all the better, but if anyone has more info about it?
I would presume this is a later construction and a mix of the landscape lens and objectif d'artiste..Next step is cleaning, the glass is very good but I am going to shine this barrel a bit and then post some photos of it!
Happy haloween! :eek:

[community1313]

next time i am in paris lets go shoot. i had some great times last june when i was there.

okay. can some one post what the lens formula is? a picture of it? i think i got one! a big F#$%er for sure! lets talk. and then we can all try and figure out how to shoot with it.

based on the description i think this is the same formula. it is french for sure ( i bought it in belgium from a guy who got it in paris.....), but no maker's name.

eddie

ps. $610 is a steal. well done!

Looks like a big petzval..have you opened it to get a close look, pritty anyway!

[community1313]

Today I ran a test on the lens, focal goes from 12 to 19 inches/ F6 to F9 maximum aperture, since I used it on my arca I had the bellow very streched, not a 4x5 lens.
As it goes in color what you see is what you get and it works nice closed one stop and gets sharper after (much like a verito) but never gets very sharp. Colors are fused and glowing and it's very elegant and to my surprise nice contrast. Focusing is not crucial since plane of focus is quite wide and you do notice the shift of colors. I will scan the polaroids and post them soon.

[evgenys]

I have the similar lens but my lens has the word "Trousse" instead of "Tele", made by Darlot, No.36667.
But! The lens has the different design. The lenses are the same: plano-convex on front with the convex side towards the photographed object and the plano-concave on the back, but this lens is reversed comparing to the "Adjustable landscape lens" formula: the concave side looks not towards the film/plate, but to the plano side of the front lens.
The all other things (like markings on the barrel) are the same as on the other Puyo lenses I saw here and in the Internet.
I didn't use the lens yet, because I had to make flange for it, but hope to try it in the nearest future.
Garrett and Jim, thanks for the tips how use them properly!

[Steven Tribe]

This is the remains of the casket set mentioned in VM. A set seen by them had the serial number 35,82x. But they talk about a set of 4 concave/convex lenses.

[community1313]

I have the similar lens but my lens has the word "Trousse" instead of "Tele", made by Darlot, No.36667.
But! The lens has the different design. The lenses are the same: plano-convex on front with the convex side towards the photographed object and the plano-concave on the back, but this lens is reversed comparing to the "Adjustable landscape lens" formula: the concave side looks not towards the film/plate, but to the plano side of the front lens.
The all other things (like markings on the barrel) are the same as on the other Puyo lenses I saw here and in the Internet.
I didn't use the lens yet, because I had to make flange for it, but hope to try it in the nearest future.
Garrett and Jim, thanks for the tips how use them properly!

Looks like mine..Ok I tried the back lens with two different position, flat side towards the front, more diffused, flat site towards the back was the way it was when I got it, like every lens it's usable but puyo himself claims in his book that it is not very practical..it's hard to know what focal and aperture you are into and it's also not a very fast lens..It has a unique style and is a curious piece of history!

[community1313]

Exemple ..notice the blue Halo around the edges..

[Jim Galli]

Looks like mine..Ok I tried the back lens with two different position, flat side towards the front, more diffused, flat site towards the back was the way it was when I got it, like every lens it's usable but puyo himself claims in his book that it is not very practical..it's hard to know what focal and aperture you are into and it's also not a very fast lens..It has a unique style and is a curious piece of history!

Marc, are you making us some pictures?? :D:D

I never worry about aperture numbers with lenses like this. Focus, measure the aperture with a ruler, measure the length to ground glass with ruler, and divide. You'll get great results that way. Put some cheap Kodak Polycontrast paper in the holders with a #1/2 or #1 printing filter in the light path and calculate for about ASA 1.

OOPS I spoke too soon. The color shot above is fantastic! Bravo.

[community1313]

It does shoot nice in colors!

[community1313]

Hello Jim, the aperture ring has a series of numbers, from 9 to 45, they are the size of the aperture in mm, but how can I know exactly the focal by mesuring the lengh to ground glass since it is a "teleobjectif", puyo insists the focusing distance will be actually shorter than the focal! :confused:

[Jim Galli]

Hello Jim, the aperture ring has a series of numbers, from 9 to 45, they are the size of the aperture in mm, but how can I know exactly the focal by mesuring the lengh to ground glass since it is a "teleobjectif", puyo insists the focusing distance will be actually shorter than the focal! :confused:

Silly me. I've never had a soft focus tele so it didn't enter my empty head. Whatever you're doing seems to be working splendidly! How did you measure for the color shots?

[community1313]

LOL, I guessed it..and burned a few polaroids!
I have to do more test when it's correctly mounted on the sinar, it needs lots of bellow, I guess it's a 16 inch focus..

[Steven Tribe]

Trying to resurrect this thread to see if the posters have new information, experience and images.
Hope to add something soon as I, apparently, have complete 4 lens trousse, just with the Puyo name, on its way from Paris.

[premortho]

Interesting images and nice to see Puyo as an artist rather than a name on a brass barrel. Portraits appear to age better than landscapes!

I think Puyo's landscape nu 6 is totally awesome. THIS is the kind of picture that got me into LF in the first place!!

[Steven Tribe]

My wild purchase has now arrived and here is the first summary info:
Appears to be a complete trousse set - without the case! So it may be useful for others - including the " make your own Puyo" group!

Bayonet fixing for all lenses.

There are bayonet "females" at the ends of the moveable barrel AND at the end of the extended sleeve.
The barrel end bayonet are the same diameter, whilst the sleeve end bayonet is slightly large in diameter (pretty logical).
2 of the lenses are clearly marked with a (factory workshop) T.

The full engraving is:

Trousse Anachromatique

formule du Cnt Puyo
Photo Amateur 21 rue Tronchet
Paris

21 rue Tronchet still exists and is a shop in the French Lingerie chain Etam!

There is no apparent maker stamp anywhere. Brass construction/threads are as good as they get.

All lenses are single traditional concave/convex + glass - except one of the T lenses which is concave/plano and is -.
Will do a quick check of focal lengths later to-day.
The waterhouse cut out edge has an inch scale from 3.5 to 5.5" with a pointer at 4.6". This scale has at title "Sue". Abreviation for ?
The barrel has a focussing scale from 1.5meters to infinity.

[Steven Tribe]

I won't have time before the end of the weekend to do real testing.
I am sure that Garrett (quoting the Ph.D thesis) is right about the scales showing the actinic correction because there are small changes in the real distances between the marks on the scale - not much - but they are there. I think this would only work for when there is no rear lens in the fixed flange lens?
The casket is definitely designed to cover landscape meniscus, tele landscape meniscus, single lens portrait, double lens portrait!
There don't seem to be many around of this variety (but there are lots of varieties!). I think this one is from before the de Pulligny collaboration - but is essentially the same as the Darlot engraved version.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

...you just KNOW the potential to make world shattering pictures is at hand, if you could ever figure out how it works.

Yes, anyone who has ever tried to use a Busch Vade Mecum, a similar design, can attest to just how hard these lenses are to use. What-you-see-IS_NOT-what-you-get.

[Steven Tribe]

Well, sorting out the casket Puyo was a lot easier than I thought.
The "reknown photo amateur" Puyo was sensible enough to have small difference between the barrel front and rear bayonet fixtures - so there are no options or doubts.
I have called the lens cells A, B (those without T- trousse marks), C and D (those with T marks).

A and B are around 70cm. Identical in focal length, but not in cell mount thickness and length of pins. The physically longer cell B fits into the real barrel flange 2. Cell A will only fit in the front position. This is acheived by a combination of pin lens and ridges on the cell rims.

Likewise cell C (30cm) will only fit in the front.
The -ve cell D will only fit in the rear sleeve bayonet position.

So, in summary:
Front lens can be cell A or C or nothing
rear lens can be B or nothing
Sleeve lens can only be D or nothing.

This matches up with the description of the adjustable landscape lens as well as the "d'Artiste" lens.

[Tri Tran]

I just saw this threat . I hope I'm not driving up the price for these lenses but they are truly exceptional lens for portrait work IMO. These 11x14 Platinum and Carbon Transfer portrait prints was taken with the Darlot Trousse 15 ish Puyo Anachromatic .

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3855/dylanprint.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/dylanprint.jpg/)

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3195/sabrinaxy.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/sabrinaxy.jpg/)

[Steven Tribe]

delated due to duplicate-strange things happening tonight!

[Steven Tribe]

Tri-Tan, "15 ish" = 15"?
This must be the 40cm version, originally used for 18x24cm - 15.74".

I have read on-line the book by de Pulligny and C. Puyo called "Les Objectifs d'Artiste (200 + pages).
The description there shows quite clearly that the set of lenses I have - called a trousse, then - later got the name O d'A and that the casket I have is very similar to all later O d'A sets from Darlot and their successors. The book describes the optical principles in great detail and shows how a negative lens at the rear can be used. The O d'A difference compared to mine is that the plano concave has been replaced by a plano convex.

Old books are always great because of the period adverts at the end. This one has the following:

A detailed description of the O d'A on offer from Turillon (succr. de A. Darlot). This is from 1906 and is a little earlier than CCHarrison's shorter ad in Soft Focus part 1. It confirms the two sizes made for 13x18 and 18x24 but also gives their focal lengths 30 and 40cm, respectively. They announce the arrival soon of their version of the adjustable landscape lens. The O d'A at this stage contained the pair of identical meniscii, and extra meniscus and a plano-convex lens.Amazingly, it announces 2 qualities!

Series 1 is with a real iris made from "1st quality crown" (Jena?).

Series 2 (30% cheaper) is for waterhouse stops and with crown glass from St. Gobain.

So it should possible to identify series 1 and 2 - even with no engravings.

Also advertising an adjustable landscape anachromatique was the company of "Grande Fabrique Francaise" at Ligny.
In addition, they had an anastigmatic Apoquartz ( calculated by M.E. Morin).

[Petzval Paul]

Isn't the FL on these lenses variable? Perhaps that's why I is mentioned as being ~ 15"? I don't know too much about them and have no experience using them but thought that they were a bit slow for portraits??? On the other hand, there seems to be so many variations to the Puyo lenses that I get really confused by which one is which.

[Steven Tribe]

What I am about to write now is , perhaps, heresy for some, Paul!
The Landsape (adjustable) version has definite changing (tele) focal capabilities.
I think all later O d'A have this capability too - but only through use of different combinations of the 4 lenses supplied.
The question is:
-were O d'A ever supplied without the two extra lenses? Some are engraved O d'A and others O d'A trousse - but this could be just a change in marketing methods!
The focal length I have given ( and in the enclosed ad) is for the normal symmetrical meniscus at both ends layout.

Looking at CCHarrison's list (Soft Focus 1) of 4 lens variations for the O d'A, I have the thought that these 4 could just represent the 4 opportunities available with the standard O d'A - rather than separately sold lenses.

About speed, Paul - the standard set up with 2 symmetrical meniscus lenses is F5. With the front lens replaced by the much shorter alternative meniscus, the combined focal length is 20cm and it becomes an F3.

The de Pulligny/C. Puyo book I mentioned can be read at e-corpus.org using the search function from the starter page. Not possible to make a copy (for me at least) but each single page is printable.
I enclose the 1906 ad for O d'A - the print quality is very weak, I apologise!

[Petzval Paul]

I just can't wrap my head around all of these variables....smoked too pot as a junior high schooler, or something! I was under the impression that they were quite slow, like the Dallmeyer Bergheim lenses before them. F/5 would definitely be great for portraits, though!

[Jim Galli]

I just recently did comparison photos of a 385mm O d' A and an identical 560mm bigger version. What was interesting is the smaller one had all of the usual Puyo info on inscribed as usual but the big one had only the scale at the waterhouse slot, nothing else. So now I'm curious if the big one that lacked some of the inscriptions was the 2nd series quality. The glasses on it were noticeably thicker although o/wise consistent.

[Steven Tribe]

I think the explanation is that the apparent falling out of C. Puyo and de Pulligny (artistic temperaments) and the collapse of Darlot, lead to a large number of O d'A makers.
Although Turillon and Ligny are the best known (already active in 1906) there were plenty of others, some with names some without names (yours Jim?). Some have the name Puyo or de Pulligny -without any mention of the other. The quality of the brasswork looks just as splendid as the Darlot engraved types
There have been quite a few of these unknown O d'A and Landscape meniscus varieties sold on that site within the last year and I and others have mentioned them the soft lens sales thread. I thought that some of these may be Darlot unsold stock (and not engraved yet) and sold as special offers!
The "2nd quality" lenses from Darlot and Turillon were undoubtedly engraved!
What is the lens diameter of your 560cm O d'A and does it have 2 symmetrical cells?

I have since learned that my "Photo Amateur" is one of the versions that followed the demise of Darlot.
Photo Amateur was a small shop who like to have their engraving on lenses/cameras. An identically engraved, smaller version, went through ebay last year.

[Jim Galli]

I think the explanation is that the apparent falling out of C. Puyo and de Pulligny (artistic temperaments) and the collapse of Darlot, lead to a large number of O d'A makers.
Although Turillon and Ligny are the best known (already active in 1906) there were plenty of others, some with names some without names (yours Jim?). Some have the name Puyo or de Pulligny -without any mention of the other. The quality of the brasswork looks just as splendid as the Darlot engraved types
There have been quite a few of these unknown O d'A and Landscape meniscus varieties sold on that site within the last year and I and others have mentioned them the soft lens sales thread. I thought that some of these may be Darlot unsold stock (and not engraved yet) and sold as special offers!
The "2nd quality" lenses from Darlot and Turillon were undoubtedly engraved!
What is the lens diameter of your 560cm O d'A and does it have 2 symmetrical cells?

I have since learned that my "Photo Amateur" is one of the versions that followed the demise of Darlot.
Photo Amateur was a small shop who like to have their engraving on lenses/cameras. An identically engraved, smaller version, went through ebay last year.

The small one is mine. The large one is Eddie's. Both have barrel machine work interchangeable with other Darlot lenses I have, so I believe them to be made in that period although perhaps the lack of inscription on the large one is because of an overlap, ie. Darlot mfg. someone else sold?


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Eddie/2Anachromatique_001.jpg


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Eddie/2Anachromatique_005.jpg


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Eddie/2Anachromatique_011.jpg

[Steven Tribe]

The brasswork is identical to mine - even the small details match. The only difference is that mine (Photo amateur) has the pinion drive and engraving on the other side, and, of course, the rear extension of the flange and bayonet fitments everywhere.
Ligny was a producer of optical glass and may have supplied the "superior" quality of glass mentioned in the Turillon advert. And this is perhaps why they went into the photographic business when Darlot lost interest, to preserve an outlet.

[Steven Tribe]

Another contribution which gives yet another Puyo version!

This time it is engraved with a new name "Trousse d'Atelier".
This is a sold item from a Parisian dealer in the recent past.
It is the same casket set as the one I bought (size, lenses) but this one is engraved from Darlot.