Death Valley weather late Nov/early Dec?

[Steve Goldstein]

I'm thinking of making our annual post-Thanksgiving trip a domestic one this year (if I can convince my spousal unit). What might I expect in DV at that time?

[Drew Wiley]

Long-term forecasting is tricky to say the least, but on an "average" year this can be
a very pleasant time there. Not so hot, and not likely to be winds like in mid-Spring
to throw fine dust all over your gear and film. But once in awhile the Valley can be
a cold sink and require a jacket. Snow up on the Wildrose road can happen, but a
dusting of snow up on Telescope Peak should be regarded as a photographic bonus. Just check with the rangers about any current hazards or washouts on the backroads, and of course take plenty of extra food and water just in case of a delay somewhere, along with a sleeping bag. The low angle of light during these shorter
days is especially appealing. It is also a very nice time to visit the adjacent Panamint Valley, Owens lakebed, and Lone Pine area below MT Whitney, where there
are more accommodations.

[Laura_Campbell]

The talk in the desert is that this winter is supposed to be cool and dry. Summer was, with the steady high temperatures starting in mid summer rather than in May.

[Eric Woodbury]

DV? Domestic? Not really. If you mean N. American, that it is.

I've been to DV every year since 1979. Many times at T-day. Others are right, the weather is typically good, but I've been blown away, washed away, frozen, and driven out by throngs of tourists (of which I'm one). All of that adds to the adventure and sometimes to the photography. I do not recommend the T-day weekend, as it is one of the busiest. Consider just before or anytime through New Year.

[seabee1999]

I am planning to head to DV myself on Dec 3-5. Right now I am still stuck in Afghanistan but will be returning from this deployment shortly. I look forward to seein what others post as far as what weather to expect or plan for as well as advice on where to go to photograph. As it looks now, I'll be camping out there during the weekend. I will bring plenty of warm clothes, water and food.

God Bless,
David

[Jim Noel]

Many of the "little traveled roads" are now obliterated so you can't drive on them, or even find them. For instance you can no longer go to Keane Mine or a couple of other locations which I went to every year for 20+ years. Be aware that the bar and restaurant at Stovepipe Wells Village burned. This limits your eating locations.

[Eric Woodbury]

JIM, hey there. The restaurant burned? Oh no. That's bad. The store there is worthless, so I'll have to take more and better food.

[Drew Wiley]

I took some good food once. I was in Saline Valley, which certainly rivals Death Valley
for beauty, and is now part of the same Natl Park, but harder to get into - and had
some venison steaks cooking on the tailgate on a Coleman stove while I was soaking
in one of the hot springs just a few feet away. A coyote ambled up and deftly yanked
one of the steaks right off the hot stove and trotted off with it.

[Eric Woodbury]

Drew, better the steak than the truck.

[Drew Wiley]

Dakotah - I haven't been there recently, especially since only the main road has been
passable since the big storms a couple years ago. There were two big problems with
the New-age/hippie batch that camped there. They were vandalizing the volcano
with giant peace sign intaglios, which didn't sit well with the new Park jurisdiction;
and second, there is an Indian tribe which considers the valley sacred. In earlier days
the military also used the valley for rescue training - and those hills around it are
certainly rough enough - in fact, I was there once when the two paratroopers being
"rescued" were never located. That's a sad ending. If anyone does go there in the
winter or fall (summer being too hot) they should carry at least two weeks of food
and water. The one way in (just off Westgard Pass) can remain shut for over a week
at a time. And having an extra spare tire or two isn't a bad idea either. I once broke
an oil pan back in there - but that's a story for another day.

[Drew Wiley]

To follow up a bit more - I really wouldn't worry much about the human hazards in
Saline Valley. A number of geologists and park personnel are active there, and the
wierdos were chased out quite awhile ago. There are, of course, greater natural and
logistical road hazards than in Death Valley proper. The best source for current road
conditions is probably the Forest Service station in Lone Pine. A 4WD track I would
really like to try myself goes from Lone Pine over the top of the Inyos, then drops
down the backside into Saline. Unfotunately, when it's free of snow at the top, at
nearly 11000 ft, it will be an oven down in Saline. And I'd always want to convoy
with at least a second 4WD. No way a tow truck is going to fetch you back in that
country. Two formal wilderness areas have been established in the Inyos, with access from this road, and a primitive GPS foot trail has been plotted along old mining paths. One should not make the potentially fatal mistake, however, of confusing this with the kind of improved and signed trails one finds in the High Sierra. The Inyos are incredibly rough and stark, and crosscountry travel is in a
whole different league from the rounded summit ridge of the White Mtns to the north
too. I am no longer well heat-conditioned for arduous desert treks; but there are
still plenty of things I would like to revisit someday around the floor of Saline Valley.

[Laura_Campbell]

Many of the "little traveled roads" are now obliterated so you can't drive on them, or even find them. For instance you can no longer go to Keane Mine or a couple of other locations which I went to every year for 20+ years. Be aware that the bar and restaurant at Stovepipe Wells Village burned. This limits your eating locations.

I know the guy that installed the gas pipes in the restaurant/bar at Stovepipe Wells. A few weeks ago, he told me that the fire was caused by a company that was cleaning the carpets. They had flammable materials in their van which was parked next to the restaurant. The materials in the van caught fire, and spread to the building. The building, however, didn't burn to the ground. While it's damaged and needs repair, the restaurant/bar will reopen once the repairs are complete. There are some questions as to who will pay the bill, as the restaurant was in the middle of a change in ownership when the fire occurred.

[Laura_Campbell]

OK,I will forecast the next few days in Death Valley.
1. Tonight Light wind becoming west up to 10 mph after midnight.
2. Thursday Night Mostly cloudy .Light wind.
3. Friday...Partly sunny. A 20 percent chance of thunderstorms in the afternoon.
4. Friday Night...Mostly cloudy. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph shifting to the northwest after midnight.
5. Saturday Through Sunday...Partly cloudy with a 20 percent chance of thunderstorms.
6. Sunday Night Through Monday Night...Partly cloudy with a 20 percent chance of thunderstorms.
7. Tuesday And Tuesday Night...Partly cloudy. A 20 percent chance of rain showers.
8. Wednesday...Mostly sunny.
:)

Did you forget the temperatures? ;-) It's still pretty hot out here.

[Merg Ross]

I took some good food once. I was in Saline Valley, which certainly rivals Death Valley
for beauty, and is now part of the same Natl Park, but harder to get into - and had
some venison steaks cooking on the tailgate on a Coleman stove while I was soaking
in one of the hot springs just a few feet away. A coyote ambled up and deftly yanked
one of the steaks right off the hot stove and trotted off with it.

I agree about the beauty of Saline Valley, although have not visited for many years. In the late 1950's I was there photographing with Brett Weston and a couple of other characters. Saline Valley was one of Brett's favorite desert areas. We camped at the hot spring for several nights and ventured over to Eureka Valley to photograph the dunes. We never saw another person; apparently it is quite a different place now.

Has Saline Valley become part of the Death Valley National Monument?

[Drew Wiley]

Merg - it's all officially National Park now. The addition of Saline Valley and all the
land between there and Death Valley (including the Racetrack and Hunter Mtn)
effectively doubled the size of the previous National Monument. Quite an national
treasure. Although the enforcement of rules in Saline Valley seems to be casual due
to light visitation, the tiny shantytown that built up around the springs is probably
under control. I was in the main part of Death Valley three (?) years ago when there
was a thirty-mile long lake in the bottom, and the hills were green the second time in my lifetime!

[Merg Ross]

Merg - it's all officially National Park now. The addition of Saline Valley and all the
land between there and Death Valley (including the Racetrack and Hunter Mtn)
effectively doubled the size of the previous National Monument. Quite an national
treasure. Although the enforcement of rules in Saline Valley seems to be casual due
to light visitation, the tiny shantytown that built up around the springs is probably
under control. I was in the main part of Death Valley three (?) years ago when there
was a thirty-mile long lake in the bottom, and the hills were green the second time in my lifetime!

Drew, thanks for the update. I was unaware that Death Valley had become a National Park and now includes Saline Valley. It truly is a national treasure; no place quite like it!

[Jeffrey Sipress]

Wasn't the NP status sometime around 1994 or maybe earlier? Come on, guys!

Either way, those months are just very pleasant weatherwise anywhere in DVNP, both day and night.

[Drew Wiley]

Don't push that pleasant weather thing too far. DVNP has over 11000 ft in altitude
differential. Last time I was there in Feb it is uncomfortably hot to me in the Badwater
area, but on the upper Wilrose road there was four feet of snow, and that's only a
third the way up Telescope Peak. I've also been there in Dec when it was cold enough
to form ice on the salt water creeks below sea level. I learned a long time ago to be prepared for just about anything in either the desert or mtns. Stereotypes can get
people in trouble, especially if a car breaks down.

[seabee1999]

Just curious if anyone has been to the park recently, say within the past week?

God Bless,
David

[Laura_Campbell]

I was in the park a few days ago, on Jubilee Pass Rd.

[seabee1999]

I was in the park a few days ago, on Jubilee Pass Rd.

How was the weather and sceneary like? Just curious to know what I could hope to see when I return from my current Afghan deployment.

God Bless,
David

[Laura_Campbell]

Last week it was windy and in the mid-70's on Salisbury and Jubilee Pass, and about 90F when I reached the valley floor where Jubilee Pass Rd meets up with Harry Wade Road. The day I was there I watched a storm approach from the southwest, and by the time I got home to Shoshone, it was pouring. We had some flooding on Highway 127, and the roadways in Death Valley were muddy. It's been pretty overcast ever since and the desert still hasn't dried out from the rains last week. There's snow on Mt. Charleston in Nevada, and I'm curious to see if any of the mountains in DV got snow.

Laura