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View Full Version : I got a box in the mail from Richard Ritter



Bruce Barlow
21-Sep-2010, 10:29
Not telling what's in it until I make some pictures of it, but I have to try it first. I'll add pictures to this thread when I have them, probably by tonight.

It came with a sign that said: "Feed Me."

Anyone who comes to my October Open House will get to play with it.

It needs a name. I'm sure it's a "she."

Now I don't have to nag him any more.

I'm very excited.

John Bowen and Bill Kumpf: no spoiling my surprise, now!

David Aimone
21-Sep-2010, 11:20
Congrats on the mystery arrival! Gives us a chance to use our imaginations!

Now, what could it be?

BILL3075
21-Sep-2010, 11:33
Hi Bruce,

You got one, too. Mine's a bit 'obese', though......:)

Bill

BarryS
21-Sep-2010, 11:54
I suppose it's another severed human head.

IanG
21-Sep-2010, 12:11
No it's a Ritter special 5"x24" camera, you know they like large & wide in the US :D

Didn't thee guy's all work together in the dim distant past ? back in the original wet plate days.

Ian

Bill Kumpf
21-Sep-2010, 13:08
I am definitely jealous. It would be worth the trip for the “play time”.

BrianShaw
21-Sep-2010, 13:23
troll

BrianShaw
21-Sep-2010, 13:23
Not you, Bruce. I meant that you should name the, umm, object, "Troll."

Nathan Smith
21-Sep-2010, 13:38
Not you, Bruce. I meant that you should name the, umm, object, "Troll."

... or "Gloat" :)

John Bowen
21-Sep-2010, 13:57
I can't believe Richard put one of Alice's Kittens in the mail....eeek

rdenney
21-Sep-2010, 14:09
It needs a name. I'm sure it's a "she."

Bertha.

Rick "as in 'Big'" Denney

Bruce Barlow
24-Sep-2010, 08:26
Alice (8x10) 'n Amanda (5x7). Amanda was in the box.

Three years in the nagging.

5 pounds 6 ounces. Uses the 8x10 rail system at the moment (Richard is thinking about a lighter set of rails), so it can be considered a format change kit if you already have the 8x10. Or vice-versa.

Carbon fiber rails are smooth to operate. Front axis and based tilt, rise and fall, shift, swing. Rear base tilt, asymmetric swing, shift. Levels on side of back, and center of back. Cherry. Mine has been modified to take Sinar boards (squared-out corners).

Now I can nag Richard for a 4x5 reducing back, which he tells me he just hasn't put together yet.

No idea of pricing. "Richard, how much do I owe you?" "I don't know." It won't be cheap, since it's not all that much less size or work than an 8x10.

Bad pictures, but I'd rather be using her than photographing her. You get the idea. I hate Photoshop.

I'm going out to play.

Richard has one, too. Both will be available at my Open House Oct. 9 and 10 for those who wish to fondle.

David Aimone
24-Sep-2010, 08:40
VERY Nice! Congratulations and get outside (the weather should be nice by you right now)...

Peter Gomena
24-Sep-2010, 08:56
So if I start nagging Richard now, I might get a whole plate camera in three years? Hmm, may be worth the trouble and expense. Cameras look great, enjoy them!

Peter Gomena

IanG
24-Sep-2010, 09:25
Very nice. Would be interesting to see the rail system better.

Out of curiosity why two styles of bellows corners ?

Ian

BrianShaw
24-Sep-2010, 10:44
... or "Gloat" :)

Now that we see what was in the box it seems appropriate to admit that you are more correct than I (or me)!

Bruce Barlow
24-Sep-2010, 11:04
Very nice. Would be interesting to see the rail system better.

Out of curiosity why two styles of bellows corners ?

Ian

Dunno. Richard thinks that his order got filled with different ones than he may have specified. He's not happy with them because they're bulkier than the 8x10. I noticed the difference in the corners, too. They got the reach, though. I asked for bellows that I could use my 19" Apo Artar with. Yup. Can do.

Found a rail pic.

IanG
24-Sep-2010, 11:31
Dunno. Richard thinks that his order got filled with different ones than he may have specified. He's not happy with them because they're bulkier than the 8x10. I noticed the difference in the corners, too. They got the reach, though. I asked for bellows that I could use my 19" Apo Artar with. Yup. Can do.

Can't easily find my good rails pics. I'll keep looking.

I asked the question because I'm restoring cameras, and the two types occur. It's more cosmetic than practical. I made both types out of interest for a recent restoration.

As it happens I've just done a trial for some De Vere (Whole plate but much larger frame) replacement bellows, the originals used 3 layers of fabric, I'm torn between doing the same or just two layers and slightly better stiffeners. The issue I'm trying to avoid is bellows sag, the originals were very good, except rotten when I bought the camera in 1976 :D

I don't know who Richard Ritter uses but when I've visited Camera (now Custom) Bellows in Birmingham, UK they would pull out the original patterns :D So for UK & European replacements they were identical to the OEM version.

Ian

Bruce Barlow
24-Sep-2010, 13:08
I use small office clips attached to rubber bands. Clip the bellows, wrap the band over the front uprights, and voila! Pulls bellows forward and eliminates sag.

Store the clips on the axle that connects the front uprights.

John NYC
24-Sep-2010, 14:49
Three years in the nagging.


Just curious... Why did it take three years for a person who makes cameras and markets them to make you one?

Bruce Barlow
24-Sep-2010, 15:20
Richard lives a full life. He restores cameras worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, builds cameras from 8x10 to 20x24, fixes meters, fixes cameras, and photographs.

A 5x7 still requires engineering and design. It was not at the top of his list, because building ONE for me won't pay the rent. Not to mention it's a fair bit of work to build.

Richard is seemingly entirely resistant to nagging.

He wasn't sure he even wanted to do it, as I recall.

What I have, I don't think, is entirely what he wants. But I'm his favorite guinea pig. I had the prototype of the 8x10, too.

Besides, think of how many breakfasts he conned out of me. Brownies, too.

IanG
25-Sep-2010, 04:45
Thanks for posting the image of the rail system Bruce, I missed it last night, (I'm a few time zones ahead of you).

Richard makes some interesting cameras, it would be great to ee some in the flesh, one day I'll visit the US again :D

Ian

RichardRitter
25-Sep-2010, 04:56
Just curious... Why did it take three years for a person who makes cameras and markets them to make you one?

The average cost of bringing a camera to market is around $100,000. That's if you are paying to have it done. If you do it yourself its over 4000 hours of time and there still is the cost of tooling, materials, prototypes that make really expensive fire wood and the boxes of parts that sort of worked. Once a design is right and field tested then there is the cost for the parts that have to be order in quantities that keep the cost at a reasonable level. Average camera has 300 plus parts that includes the screws.


The Zone VI camera took 5 plus years to get it to market that includes the Wisner hiccup, the enlarger was worked on for 7 years.

As to why it took 3 years I don't think Bruce wanted to pay shop rate to have me make one camera. In real terms the value of the two prototype cameras made are around $25,000 each.

Plus the market is flooded with cheap 4 x 5 and 5 x 7 cameras that are paying the rent and will be paying the rent.

GPS
25-Sep-2010, 05:04
Just curious... Why did it take three years for a person who makes cameras and markets them to make you one?

:) Because one person is not the same as one manufacturing company. Try to build a new camera and you will never need to ask...

Bruce Barlow
25-Sep-2010, 05:09
Like Richard said.

He's still gotten a lot of poached eggs and corned beef hash out of the deal. Whole wheat toast and fried potatoes, too. Coffee. But not $25,000 worth, even with my lavish tipping.

IanG - the cameras are interesting. The rail system is silky smooth, impervious to changes in humidity, and incredibly rigid. We have video of Richard standing on a set of them we propped up on blocks of wood. They barely deflect.

Off to Monadnock Regional High School's Homecoming Husky Hoopla with the 5x7 to make some portraits.

David Karp
25-Sep-2010, 09:40
Richard,

Have you made a whole plate camera for anyone?

John NYC
25-Sep-2010, 11:33
The average cost of bringing a camera to market is around $100,000. That's if you are paying to have it done. If you do it yourself its over 4000 hours of time and there still is the cost of tooling, materials, prototypes that make really expensive fire wood and the boxes of parts that sort of worked. Once a design is right and field tested then there is the cost for the parts that have to be order in quantities that keep the cost at a reasonable level. Average camera has 300 plus parts that includes the screws.


The Zone VI camera took 5 plus years to get it to market that includes the Wisner hiccup, the enlarger was worked on for 7 years.

As to why it took 3 years I don't think Bruce wanted to pay shop rate to have me make one camera. In real terms the value of the two prototype cameras made are around $25,000 each.

Plus the market is flooded with cheap 4 x 5 and 5 x 7 cameras that are paying the rent and will be paying the rent.

I see. My misunderstanding. I was under the impression that this was a model you already had developed and had been selling previously, which is why I was confused about the length of time taken to build one.

RichardRitter
25-Sep-2010, 12:11
Richard,

Have you made a whole plate camera for anyone?

Yes I have made a few best thing to do is find holders first. Holder is this size vary a bit.

RichardRitter
27-Sep-2010, 05:55
I see. My misunderstanding. I was under the impression that this was a model you already had developed and had been selling previously, which is why I was confused about the length of time taken to build one.
It is based on the 8 x 10. When you reduce or enlarge a product there is a lot of parts that do not follow the norm and have to be deal with differently takes longer then one thinks it should.

If you want to look at the time line of how long I been working on this camera. You need to good back to the early 90's. After the enlarger was design Fred Picker had me work on a light weight 4 x 5 camera with 12 inches of bellows. Camera weighed 3 1/4 pounds. The prototype was made showed to Calumet. Next meeting with the CEO of Calumet there were 5 extra people at the meeting all wanting to have a say on the design of the camera. Only 2 of the 8 people in the room were photographers that used a 4 x 5 camera.

As to the one Bruce has I was out photographing with the second one that was made at the same time as Bruce's last weekend and have a hit list of changes. When will that happen if we have a really good snow storm or 3 this winter many be then. Also by then Bruce's camera and the third prototype camera will be well used and I can gain info from them and the testers .

John Bowen
27-Sep-2010, 09:52
Only 2 of the 8 people in the room were photographers that used a 4 x 5 camera.

I take it that would be you and Fred?

John Whitley
27-Sep-2010, 11:04
Next meeting with the CEO of Calumet there were 5 extra people at the meeting all wanting to have a say on the design of the camera. Only 2 of the 8 people in the room were photographers that used a 4 x 5 camera.

I have some thoughts on this, but it's only indirectly related to photography so I'll direct that discussion over to this thread in The Lounge (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=67054).