processed film came out completely blank

[andrewrb]

I'm stumped. Yesterday I shot three different pictures with Kodak 160 NC 8x10 film. Since the film's expensive I usually meter carefully and expose one stop over (at least) for a denser negative. Today I get the film back, and only one out of the three came out. The odd thing is that the two that did not come out were completely blank- even the film type and batch number was missing on the side of the negative. I'm talking totally blank. I got the film processed at my trusted professional lab, and they told me they ran all three in the same batch of chemicals. I feel that this is a bad box of negatives from Kodak's side. But that one that came out is really confusing me. Are there any other possibilities?

I did a quick search on here and didn't find anything on this so if there is an old thread it would be wonderful if someone could direct me to it.

Thanks,

Andrew

[Brian Ellis]

Dark slide wasn't pulled. Shutter wasn't cocked and/or wasn't released while dark slide was pulled. Those would be my two best guesses for totally blank film. Very unlikely that you got a bad batch of film from Kodak.

Did you have two film holders loaded with four sheets? If so, try having the fourth sheet processed and see what's on it. You may have gotten your holders/sides mixed up and thought you were exposing the wrong ones.

There are a lot of threads here dealing with blank film. I'd suggest an advanced search of thread titles using the terms "no image" or "blank film" or something like that.

[BrianShaw]

Odd...

For the two that came out blank, are you really sure that you pulled the darkslide out?

I have had 100% success with Kodak film so I (personally) can't imagine a manufacturing defect like you suggest.

[Denis Pleic]

Do you trust your lab without reserve?

Somehow I'd look for errors there first, and only then blame Kodak...
Seems rather far-fetched that only some of the negs from the same box are affected... I'd look closely at the lab first - in my opinion, such errors (completely blank film) usually happen in processing - outnumbering manufacturer errors most likely by several orders of magnitude.

In short, the probability laws suggest lab error. Like I said, I'd look there first.

Regards,

Denis

[Denis Pleic]

For the two Brians :):

Even if the darkslide wasn't pulled, the manufacturer's codes on the film edge after processing would still show - even if the negative was blank, right?

[Steve Hamley]

I don't believe Kodak puts the printed codes on 8x10 film. They don't on 8x10 Tri-X but do on 4x5 Tri-X.

Cheers, Steve

[Brian C. Miller]

This Brian agrees with Denis: the codes on the edge would still be there. I'm guessing that a development error ocurred.

[BrianShaw]

This Brian doesn't agree with the most recent Brian. (Which is odd; I usually agree with other Brians!) This Brian thinks Steve is correct about edge markings. This Brian is willing to be proven wrong, however.

[domaz]

Completely blank could mean they put it in the fixer before the developer. That would be a pretty big mistake for the lab to make.

[Neil Smith]

If the one that came out has edge markings and the other two don't, then I would say processing error for sure. If non of them have edge markings then your in the territory of might be dark slide, might be shutter or could be processing very difficult to prove which unless you can trace back. Do the lab process the sheets individually or together?


Neil

[andrewrb]

Thanks everybody for the feedback. I'm positive I loaded the film correctly, took the darkslide out, cocked/tripped the shutter, put my socks on before my shoes, etc. And yes, Kodak 8x10 color negatives do have the markings- at least I know 160NC and 400NC do. Sorry Brian-2-Time and Steve. All my negatives have it (It's all I shoot with since loosing Fuji:( ). And if the lab did fixer before developer, well, I would not be happy. I enjoy sunrises and all, but find it a tad inconvenient to wake up at 5 am to shoot before going to work, all to end up with nothing.

Funny thing is I went out shooting this morning with film from the same box, before I knew about the blank sheets, so we'll see what happens when I pick it up tomorrow morning. I'm also having the head honcho at my lab look at the negatives when he comes in today. I'll keep you all posted.

[sully75]

I'm guessing somethign with the shutter.

[BrianShaw]

And yes, Kodak 8x10 color negatives do have the markings- at least I know 160NC and 400NC do. Sorry Brian-2-Time and Steve. All my negatives have it...

I stand corrected. Thanks for teaching me something new today!

[andrewrb]

If the one that came out has edge markings and the other two don't, then I would say processing error for sure. If non of them have edge markings then your in the territory of might be dark slide, might be shutter or could be processing very difficult to prove which unless you can trace back. Do the lab process the sheets individually or together?


Neil

Yeah, the one negative that came out has edge markings and the other two are completely blank- just two see-through sheets of beautiful negative. I'll have to ask the lab exactly how they process- thanks I didn't think of that. All they said was they were run in the same batch of chemicals.

[Robert Hall]

Odd...

For the two that came out blank, are you really sure that you pulled the darkslide out?

I have had 100% success with Kodak film so I (personally) can't imagine a manufacturing defect like you suggest.

You are doing much better percentage wise than I. Of course I have taken many images of either the dark slide or the film plenum (forgot to put film in the holder) :D

[Daniel Stone]

and another question(to andrewrb):

Does your lab use DEEP tanks(manual in hangers), or dip-n-dunk processing(automated)? If its the latter, then you shouldn't have any trouble(unless someone hooked up the fixer replenisher cube to the developer line :eek: ). If its deep tanks, then the tech who filled the tanks could have put fixer in the developer tank(another :eek:!!!)

I just processed a 160nc 8x10 sheet yesterday, and yes, it has the edge markings(along the side, rather than on the top like 4x5).

-Dan

[d.s.]

This happened to me once with 35 mm film. Two rolls of color 400 and one tri-x 400.
I started filling out the film envelopes for processing the rolls at a local drug store knowing that the tri-x would have to be sent out as they only do c-41 at the store.
The clerk told me I only have to fill out one envelope and he'll take care of the rest.
I went back 4 or 5 days later to pick up the film and they told me that one of the rolls must have been unused as it came out blank.
I looked at the blank roll and it was totally blank. No eastman kodak, no numbers, nothing.
They didn't look at the film before processing, they just souped them all in the c-41 machine. The tri-x was the completely blank film.

d.s.

[andrewrb]

and another question(to andrewrb):

Does your lab use DEEP tanks(manual in hangers), or dip-n-dunk processing(automated)?


dip and dunk

[Daniel Stone]

but which one? just re-thinking how I worded it, both processes are considered "dip-n-dunk". one's just manually operated ;).

so is it manual(by hand in the dark), or automated(machine lifts and lowers)?

-Dan

[andrewrb]

but which one? just re-thinking how I worded it, both processes are considered "dip-n-dunk". one's just manually operated ;).

so is it manual(by hand in the dark), or automated(machine lifts and lowers)?

-Dan

Ah, you're getting tricky on me. It's automated. :)

[Neil Smith]

Yeah, the one negative that came out has edge markings and the other two are completely blank- just two see-through sheets of beautiful negative. I'll have to ask the lab exactly how they process- thanks I didn't think of that. All they said was they were run in the same batch of chemicals.

Got to be some sort of processing problem, human error or mechanical malfunction.


Neil

[rdenney]

Guys, Kodak doesn't make very many mistakes. But they do make a few once in a while. I would not be sure these sheets even had emulsion on them. I know of a couple of incidents of missing emulsions over my 40ish years of hearing about such things, which is still a pretty low percentage.

The strange thing is the one good one out of three. Perhaps the batch changed mid-box, and the good one came before the change. The sheets expected tomorrow should tell that tale.

Rick "waiting for tomorrow's results" Denney

[jnantz]

the only times this happened to me,
i cooked my film for too long
and all the emulsion slid down
the drain ... or i didn't use a good
enough sub layer and the same thing happened ..

i'd talk to your lab and see if they can suggest what
might have happened ..

[John Bowen]

"I got the film processed at my trusted professional lab,"

Ah, that explains it.....

[BrianShaw]

You are doing much better percentage wise than I.

It is highly likely that you shoot more LF film than do I. :)

[BrianShaw]

Rick "waiting for tomorrow's results" Denney

me "Brian Shaw" too :D

[ki6mf]

I sometimes mix up what has been exposed and what has not been exposed and get the same results! Operator Error on my part! I assume the lab ran them through an automated processor and could not have fixed first them done stop and developer! Once in a great while with B&W I have done this too!

[Kevin Crisp]

If the edge markings aren't there, doesn't it have to be a big processing error or a failure to apply emulsion to the film base? I'd vote for a processing error.

[andrewrb]

Hey all, sorry to keep you waiting. Picked up my film today, and all were "picture perfect"- exposures and all. I talked with the technician and he told me that the three sheets that were the crux of my problem the other day ran through the machine at the exact same time and came out with one perfect negative and two completely blank negatives, leading me to believe that for some odd and mysterious reason the two blank sheets must not have had emulsion on them. I've used this lab forever, and I'm on great terms with them, so I trust their word. At this point I am 100% certain that the error is from Kodaks side- it just doesn't make sense that there are no edge markings on the two blank sheets. If the error came from my end, it would have either these missing edge markings if I just didn't expose the film, or it would have at least something on the film to show that it was exposed to any sort of light, camera or not. I give up.

[Ben Syverson]

8x10 160NC does indeed have edge markings, so if you don't see them, it's the fault of Kodak or the lab. Is it possible that they mistakenly cross processed it?

How old is the 160NC? I've had 10+ year old film come back blank, but never recent stuff.

[Scratched Glass]

Speaking as someone that has developed 30,000 or more rolls of film, I can say I screwed up 3. I cross processed them c-41 in E-6. Speaking as a photographer who has shot 20,000 images I can say I blew 2,000 due, probably more, due to operator error. It is much more likely the photographer made a mistake or his/her camera. No offence.

[rdenney]

Speaking as someone that has developed 30,000 or more rolls of film, I can say I screwed up 3. I cross processed them c-41 in E-6. Speaking as a photographer who has shot 20,000 images I can say I blew 2,000 due, probably more, due to operator error. It is much more likely the photographer made a mistake or his/her camera. No offence.

If you can explain how operator error can cause the factory-applied edge labeling on a sheet of film to disappear, I'm all ears.

Rick "who promises not to be offended" Denney