Help please - copal shutter swap?

[spkennedy3000]

Hi,

I have a 72mm SA and there is a problem with its shutter - I cannot get the cable release to go in anymore. I think something has gone wrong with the internal threads of the socket.

I will need to get it serviced, but in the meantime can I swap shutters with my 90mm nikkor-SW, which has the same shutter, and seems to have the same spacings etc?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Simon

[spkennedy3000]

I have already answered my own question, the answer is no.

[Louis Pacilla]

Hi Simon

I believe you can the order the part & install the cable release port yourself. REALLY! So very easy. Two screws & that's it.

Not sure who sales parts but maybe Carol Fulton? Maybe Bob Salomon Of HP Marketing. He can at least give you a part # or contact. You could call Schneider & they can direct you.

Your not the 1st person to bugger one up I would guess it,s a fairly common failure point so it will be easy to find. Hope that helps a little

[vinny]

Nikkor is the opposite of other copals in many ways. I switched my 90. With another brand copal shutter but he scales are backwards. It worked out with a little markering but not to factory specs.

[Dan Fromm]

I have already answered my own question, the answer is no.Why not?

[Oren Grad]

Dan, FWIW, here's what Schneider says:

Our ranges Super-Angulon (incl. XL types), Super-Symmar XL, Super-Symmar HM, Apo-Componon and Digitar can be only repaired at Schneider-Kreuznach. To optimize the optical parameter in the best possible way an exact re-adjustment of these lenses after repair is absolutely necessary.

Complete shutters should be only exchanged by Schneider Kreuznach directly (also here re-adjustment).

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/service/service_e.htm

[IanG]

I know the part you need is £22 in the UK, it's about the same in US $, easy to get and fit. B&H sell them in the US I think. Bob at HP should be able to tell you who else sells them.

Some lenses need shimming for optimum performance. An issue with 90mm f6.8 Schneider Angulon's is the Compur shutters vary & don't space the cells consistently the result is poor performance where the spacing is to great. My 90mm Grandagon is shimmed.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

Oren, thanks for the reference. The lens' lengths in knackered old shutter and in spiffy new one are easily checked. Dial or digital calipers. What I mean is, this is a situation where measurement beats dogma.

Ian, are you referring to pre-WWII Compurs, post-WWII, or only to #00s? I ask because my larger (0, 1) post-WWII Compurs seem to be on spec but my 00s, a mix of pre- and post-WWII, vary a bit as you said.

[spkennedy3000]

Why not?

Well the distances are actually slightly different. Also the aperture scale on the Nikkor goes to 4.5, on the SA only to 5.6, this would certainly cause confusion to me!

[spkennedy3000]

I know the part you need is £22 in the UK, it's about the same in US $, easy to get and fit. B&H sell them in the US I think. Bob at HP should be able to tell you who else sells them.

Some lenses need shimming for optimum performance. An issue with 90mm f6.8 Schneider Angulon's is the Compur shutters vary & don't space the cells consistently the result is poor performance where the spacing is to great. My 90mm Grandagon is shimmed.

Ian

Hi Ian, thanks a lot, do you know where I can get them in the UK?

[IanG]

Ian, are you referring to pre-WWII Compurs, post-WWII, or only to #00s? I ask because my larger (0, 1) post-WWII Compurs seem to be on spec but my 00s, a mix of pre- and post-WWII, vary a bit as you said.

The post WWII Compur 0's, someone measured the overall length of quite a few 90mm Angulon's and found the spacing was increased in the worst performing lenses. He then adjusted the spacing (he has a repair shop) and the poor lenses became sharper and were OK.

There's a lot of variation in image sharpness with these Angulons from very good to almost useless, stopping down makes no difference, Perez & Kalman published some data a few years ago, they tested quite a few.

Ian

[Dan Fromm]

Well the distances are actually slightly different. Also the aperture scale on the Nikkor goes to 4.5, on the SA only to 5.6, this would certainly cause confusion to me!Aperture scales can be replaced.

Spacing can be adjusted too, but are you sure of your measurements?

[mrossano]

Cell spacing for Super Angulons and similar designs is very critical. Modern Copal shutters are held to a very close tolerance, but if you do swap the shutter, it still pays to check the final result. In most cases, a caliper is a poor tool to make the measurement, since the cell dimensions and geometry of lenses like the 72mm SA make it difficult to use that tool consistently. For best results, the cell spacing must be held to within about 0.0004" (or 0.01mm for you youngsters) of the optimum. A more precise method is to measure the lens using a height gage with a test indicator mounted on the measuring arm, all set on a surface plate. Calibrate the setup with gage blocks. If you want more details, send me a message and I'll provide further clarification.

If you don't have these tools already, by golly, you should!. Indulge yourself to the tune of $1,000 or so. Or ... send the lens to Schneider and for about $60 they'll respace it to optimum.

[spkennedy3000]

Dear All, thanks very much, I found the replacement socket at Robert White here in the UK, surprisingly expensive but there you go.

[Struan Gray]

Too late for this time, but Adam at S.K.Grimes airmailed me a Copal PC socket when I needed one at a non-extortionate rate (aka non-european). Why the usual suspects in the EU wanted so much money for such a tiny thing I never worked out.

[spkennedy3000]

It cost me the same as B and H are charging, so not ridiculous, but thanks for the suggestion. It just seems a lot because the thing is so small...