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Emil Schildt
15-Sep-2010, 07:44
just got one...

But I don't know anything about it. The VM doesn't mention a lot (just "several"), and the one description is dated much later than this one must be, as the Jamin name is written on it.

Original case - "secret" compartment in the lid where the original flange and a front plate was hiding..

beautiful condition.
Compleate as I can tell.

on the lens is written "B" and "PORTRAIT" - on the base of the barrel it says "A".

I am almost sure the Portrait "mode" is a petzval...

6 extra lenses to combine - 8 waterhouse stops.

Anybody know about this kind of set?

see images:

Emil Schildt
15-Sep-2010, 07:45
a few more images:

Sven Schroder
15-Sep-2010, 08:27
Hi
I have an orphan portrait combination and no other cells, it is a petzval I confirmed that when I cleaned it. Mine is marked Darlot Opticiens paris 1008, not a lot of help!
Regards
Sven

Emil Schildt
15-Sep-2010, 08:29
thanks anyway.

Mine has a serial number 288 (very low?)

goamules
15-Sep-2010, 09:26
Hey, great find! I've seen most of the early Jamin's have the pieces marked, perhaps to help the owner keep track of the configurations on more complicated designs. A - typically the flange, B - typically the main barrel, etc. Very lucky to find the hidden flange inside!

goamules
15-Sep-2010, 09:34
thanks anyway.

Mine has a serial number 288 (very low?)

Using Jamin and/or Darlot serial numbers to determine dates is pretty impossible.

That is a very low number, however, the fact that it reads "Anc ne Mon Jamin..." and "Darlot" indicates it is after Darlot took over the Jamin company, so not as early as the 228 number would make you think. If I recall, this type of marking would be around ~1860 - 1869, still very early, but not a mid 1850s lens.

I am beginning to believe they either used a separate serial number range for different designs (Cone Centralizer vs Landscape, etc.) or restarted numbering at certain points, like after Jamin died. All of this is hypothesis...research is needed but difficult on Darlots, their numbers are all over the map.

CCHarrison
15-Sep-2010, 13:56
Please see the attached entry in Cassell's 1912 Encyclopedia of Photography regarding Darlot's casket set..

Dan

Emil Schildt
15-Sep-2010, 14:41
Please see the attached entry in Cassell's 1912 Encyclopedia of Photography regarding Darlot's casket set..

Dan

almost word by word the description in VM(?)...
and it sounds like a description of mine.

the 5 cells (beautifully made!!) have numbers on them:

F:11
F:17
F:27
F:38
F:38

the sixth one looke slightly different - has no numbers, and looks like a cell to be put at the back of the barrel (?)

8 watehouse stops with the numbers:

2-5-6-7-12-15-18-29 (maybe millimeters? the biggest numbers has the biggest hole)

Steven Tribe
15-Sep-2010, 15:48
This must be 300462624800! Quick post as always from the UK. Looks much nicer now you have given the set a deserving photo session!

Emil Schildt
15-Sep-2010, 16:24
This must be 300462624800! Quick post as always from the UK. Looks much nicer now you have given the set a deserving photo session!

indeed - MUCH better looking than the photos he made....

Whether I payed too much or not is another matter (I actually didn't think I'd win - just made a bid I could afford...)

Ole Tjugen
15-Sep-2010, 23:34
almost word by word the description in VM(?)...
and it sounds like a description of mine.

the 5 cells (beautifully made!!) have numbers on them:

F:11
F:17
F:27
F:38
F:38

the sixth one looke slightly different - has no numbers, and looks like a cell to be put at the back of the barrel (?)

8 watehouse stops with the numbers:

2-5-6-7-12-15-18-29 (maybe millimeters? the biggest numbers has the biggest hole)

Just guessing here...

The numbers on the cells would be focal lengths in cm. Maybe the sixth cell is a "flat" correction cell to be used with single cells? That could be why it has no number - no focal length?

The progression of numbers on the stops looks odd, but I think it could very well be hole diameter in mm. A simple measurement will confirm this.

I have a piece of cardboard which I pin to the wall at the end of a corridor. By focussing the image of the window at the other end of the corridor on the cardboard, I can read the focal length of the lens off a simple chart, calibrated with several modern lenses and a classic 15-25-35-45-55-65-75 casket set.

Emil Schildt
24-Jan-2011, 12:23
UPDATE

a new set has been sold.

beautiful also, and with the difference from mine, it has a radial drive on it...

on the last image one can see the barrel extended ...

Jimmy Peguet
7-Dec-2011, 15:22
I know that this is an old thread. I have a somewhat nice similar Darlot Casket set (there is a very long time that I have not used it). #60 engraved before Darlot's name, but not sure at all that it is the serial number. Bigger box and some more cells : 6 + 2 on the barrel, 7 waterhouse stops. I can do and post some pictures if interested.

This casket set contains the original hand written instructions for use, with focal lengths and coverage. Combinations of cells are very complex and almost infinite for portrait, landscapes, reproduction, magnification... I wrote some years ago an english translation (approximative with some terms, please be lenient :-)) for a friend. I can send this Word file and the original french text if some of you are interested. Even if the cells are a bit different, it should work approximately the same. Feel free to ask.

Jimmy

Steven Tribe
7-Dec-2011, 15:26
All information about trousse sets would be gratefully received here.
French is no problem as far as tables are concerned!
This may help Berthiot trousse owners (me) too as we have a system with a fixed rear lens cell as well.

Jimmy Peguet
7-Dec-2011, 15:36
I thought that I could only post jpegs, but it seems that I can post .doc files. Let's try...

If it doesn't work, send me an email to get the files.

Jimmy

Edited : it doesn't work :-)

Steven Tribe
8-Jun-2012, 08:35
To add to the confusion of Darlot casket sets, I have one in front of me with serial number 1009 ( as opposed to Sven's 1008!).

This is the one illustrated in the VM in a casket.
I can see that the focal lengths of my 5 lenses match the legible lens data on the worn guide to it's use on the lid of the casket.

This is apparently the wide angle double achromat/single rear meniscus set, where the position of the waterhouse slot can be moved and locked for the different use. This must be a unique feature!
Would be grateful for anyone with a more readable copy of the "guide" than that shown in VM (or better resolution!).
Cells focal lengths are 14, 17. 25, 33 and 45.

Steven Tribe
8-Jun-2012, 10:50
I have done a quick check of Darlot casket sets and have realised that there are 2 very closely related series.
The one shown in VM is the wide angle version like mine. There is another set - with exactly the same focal length series ( including the missing 38 in my set?) -but with black enamel extensions, at both ends of the barrel, which have the same thread as the lenses. I assume these end pieces can be removed to use the landscape/wide angled features? Westlicht had one in an auction in around 2006 - photos are still there.

Geoffrey_5995
19-Oct-2014, 22:46
Just found this thread. Was looking for info on Darlot Jamin Trousse / Casket sets because just got this Stereo set. It hasn't arrived yet but hoping to get it soon. I was looking for stereo lens sets because I am shooting stereo wet plate collodion tintypes and ambrotypes. I came across this set and couldn't resist. I'm hoping the portrait cells are Petzvals. Has anyone else had any experience with a Darlot Jamin Stereo Trousse set?123601123602123603123604

Steven Tribe
20-Oct-2014, 01:29
I had forgotten all about this thread, and that I once owned an incomplete Dalot Universal Trousse!

Pages 135 - 141 in D'Agostini's book are very helpful.

I now have a complete Trousse set ( no. 302)

The Portrait set up is, indeed, a Petzval.

The Stereo set must be unique - or almost? Do the lenses have identical serial numbers - I have a feeling they might. Perhaps one of the sets of loose lenses has the focal length with a S in brackets afterwards (for example 38 (S)? Explanation will come later!

I have posted the following table before, but not in such a relevant thread as this one.
Note that the reason for the distance adjustment (front and rear cells) system is "Pictorial".
And the other cells are described as "View or Landscape".

The description is a page from C.E.Elliot - News and Almanack - 1893.
Note the WHS are stamped inches here rather than mms.

Emil Schildt
20-Oct-2014, 07:30
Havn't seen a setero set before - that is a beautiful set.

But the lenses looks a lot loke mine, and yes - the portrait lenses are petzvals (at least mine is)

Steven Tribe
20-Oct-2014, 08:35
I think Geof's stereo will have the same serial number on both barrels - because:

- I own no. 302 which is not the 302 shown in the photo of Corrado's book!

- My set has both 38 and 38 (S) as extra lenses. I guess that one "stack" of Waterhouse Stops has the additional (S), whilst the other was without. I cannot think think of any reason whay, other than it would be easier to check all appropriate sizes in both stacks.

- The stereo set which was split into two in the 19th century (perhaps even by Darlot if sales of ready-made stereo sets was poor), contained one misplaced stop in each of the halves!

Note that there is an additional section on the Darlot Universal on pages 356 - 358, which covers usage very well.

CCHarrison
20-Oct-2014, 13:49
UPDATE

....it has a radial drive on it...
...


Never owned one, but I assume these arent radial "drives" that move the inner barrel, but rather a screw that applies friction to lock the barrel in place ? Owners, kindly advise...

thanks
Dan

Steven Tribe
20-Oct-2014, 15:22
Gandolfi got a bit over-excited some time back - it is just a locking screw! The purpose is not so much keeping the two haves to-gether, but also locking the separation of the cells deciding the degree of Flou (softness).

Another point from earlier in this thread was about a "blank" cell. This fits into the front (position "B") to add a little extra to its appearance when used as a landscape meniscus lens.

You could make an agument for this being the first Casket set made, as well as the first with (claimed) soft adjustment.

Emil Schildt
20-Oct-2014, 15:24
not mine - just noticed it, but I think (fear...) you're right...

evan clarke
20-Oct-2014, 15:56
Emil, Imhave exactly this set in a great leather box with handwritten instructions for the combos..Excellent object

Steven Tribe
22-Oct-2014, 00:51
The existance of stereo sets can't really be a surprise.

My 302 has a different layout than most barrels I have see, that is the sequence of flou extension screw, Waterhouse slot and locking knob. When this is mounted on a board, the locking knob points to the left, rather than the right. Not an alternative design for "lefties", but the additional barrel to make up the Stereo pair! And the additional (French/Italian) 302 barrel in Corrado's book is the matching right-hand one!

To prove the point, I give you an image of another set which is obviously not in its original casket. This is the sad remnants of a Stereo set. Note the difference between the incomplete barrels.

Geoffrey_5995
23-Oct-2014, 21:05
Hi Steven, Received the stereo set today and just reading through this thread again. I'll add the following information about my set. There is no (S) on the cells or the barrel. More interesting, the serial numbers are consecutive, 458 & 459. The portrait components are indeed Petzval and the sliding barrel apparatus does indeed separate the front group from the rear indicating a soft focus effect could be achieved. This would be different than how soft focus with Petzvals was achieved later with the Dallmeyer Patent where the two elements of the rear group are separated to create diffusion. The separation of the two groups with the Darlot Casket set portends lenses like the Cooke Portraits, B&L Portrait Unar and Graf Variable. I wonder how well this soft focus feature of this Darlot Casket set will work with rectilinear cells. Has anyone experimented with this feature and could post some results? Glad it arrive. Just lost a lens to shipping, the O. Simon I just purchased, lost by DHL. Doesn't look like it will turn up.

Steven Tribe
24-Oct-2014, 02:00
What awful news about the Oskar Simon! I lost a lens from France just a fortnight ago (but not a valuable one - either historically or financially).

I think the Universal has 2 "firsts":

- 1st casket set and
- 1st "flou"/soft design.

That is, before the Busch Vade Mecum casket set and the Dallmeyer rear cell redesign.

I thought I would add my (#302) data to help users of the search function.

Cells are:

38 (L), 38 (S), 27, 17, 13 (cm)

Waterhouse Apertures are:

33, 29, 22 (a replacement stop), 18, 15, 12, 9, 7, 5 (mm)

Steven Tribe
2-Mar-2015, 05:18
One of the minor points of interest with the Darlot Universal is that they have low Darlot serial numbers!

The front achromat, the rear thick edged flint and all the extra landscape meniscus lenses, are mounted in turned-over brass. However, it was possible for me to find a date on the sealed flint glass using a mirror reflection! 67 for 1867. The usual date given to the introduction of this set is 1866, so 1867 seems reasonable. My Universal (#302) has the small text saying Jamin above. Which means that the connection with Jamin was continued much later than is usually suggested.

renes
13-Apr-2015, 07:57
Can this Darlot be a part of casket set? What is this small screw for seen on second photo?

132286 132287

Steven Tribe
13-Apr-2015, 08:11
Yes!
Parts pieces from the Universal Darlot are more common than the complete sets.

The adjustment screw is to increase barrel length (Petzval set-up) to introduce "flou" - well before Dallmeyer devised his own system.

renes
13-Apr-2015, 08:21
Thanks Steven!