Is this a genuine Dagor

[DanK]

I've heard there were various Dagor copies over the years, and I picked up one that looks a little different...

The lens reads

GOERZ DAGOR F:6.8 SERIES III No. 6 FOCUS 12 IN No 3144xx

The rim appears to be aluminum rather than brass, and the stamping/labeling isn't very deep...

I'm used to artars where the rim is brass and the lettering is bolder...

Would anyone have an idea whether this lens is genuine....

Thanks,
Dan

[Dan Fromm]

The copies weren't imitation Goerz Dagors engraved like real ones, they were lenses made to the Dagor's prescription (any one of several patents) and engraved with their own maker's name etc.

Yours sounds real.

Lotta paranoia going around these days.

[Tracy Storer]

Sounds right, they DID make some aluminum/ alloy cell mounts....I have seen several in different FLs.

[c.d.ewen]

Sounds right, they DID make some aluminum/ alloy cell mounts....I have seen several in different FLs.

Like the one Jim is selling here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=66544p://) (leftmost, in barrel). Pretty close serial number, too.

Charley

[DanK]

Like the one Jim is selling here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=66544p://) (leftmost, in barrel). Pretty close serial number, too.

Charley

Identical except mine's mounted in a shutter....and a little more 'used'...

Thanks,
Dan

[DanK]

Might anyone know approx year of production for this? .... 314xxx

Curious, Thanks Dan

[Mark Sampson]

Look on the front page of this site under 'lenses', there's some Goerz data there.

[DanK]

Thanks Mark,

I've looked through the classic lens data, as well as the VM, was just curious as to whether someone might have additional info to narrow it down further - possibly due to the aluminum/alloy....certain years of production etc....

Dan

[CCHarrison]

Dagors were advertised as being available in brass or aluminum mounts from their inception. Attached is from an 1892 book. Aluminum, as a lighter weight alternative to brass, was very popular from about 1890 through about 1915.

Dan

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks Mark,

I've looked through the classic lens data, as well as the VM, was just curious as to whether someone might have additional info to narrow it down further - possibly due to the aluminum/alloy....certain years of production etc....

DanThe serial number will give you, more or less, the date the lens was made. Most -- not all -- makers assigned serial numbers in sequence, but when a serial number was actually used can be in doubt. The VM puts yours around 1911.

Why does when y'r lens was made matter to you? I ask because many of us are obsessed with dating lenses and I'm not sure of the practical importance in general of the dates we seek.

I know that date made can have implications for whether a lens was coated by the maker. Also that some lenses had major redesigns from time to time, so if (big if) we know when the redesigns were put into production knowing when the lens was made might tell us which version (bad old, less bad new, ...) it is. What other useful information can be derived from a lens' approximate date of manufacture?

[DanK]

Thanks Dan (CC) for the image, and Thanks Dan Fromm...

I'm simply unfamiliar with this lens and was surprised to see the aluminum...

I wasn't sure if a different series of numbers were used for these, or if a certain lot of numbers were set aside within their current numbering system to label the aluminum lenses specifically....possibly spanning a longer or shorter time frame...

From what I gathered, so far, the lenses were made alongside the brass versions and the serial numbers weren't specific to either type...

Thanks again,
Dan

[Jim Galli]

Another anomaly I've noted with Dagor's is a huge gap. We see as in my current running ad (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=66544&highlight=dagors) numbers consistent from early 4 and 5 digits to the 315,000's and then there seems to be a gap between there and when the U.S. firm American Optical Co.s numbering beginning in the 700,000's and running clear to the end around 814,000's. Am I just imagining that. I've never seen a Dagor in the 400, 500, or 600,000's. Figuring out Dagors is like herding cats. Thank God for short attention spans. I haven't lost any sleep.

[Dan Fromm]

Jim, C. P. Goerz American Optical Company of various locations in New York, not to be confused with American Optical Company of Springfield, Ma, was set up by C. P. Goerz and was an independent company. Goerz American and C. P. Goerz don't seem to have co-ordinated assignment of serial numbers. Same goes for C. P. Goerz and licensees, e.g., Ross, and CZJ and licensees, e.g., B&L, Ross, Suter, Krauss, Koristka, ... And after CZJ took over C. P. Goerz Dagors were numbered in the CZJ series.

[Fotoguy20d]

Responding to Dan F (too many Dans in this thread), sometimes its just fun to know. I like being able to tell someone I'm using a ca1908 Dagor, or an 1882 Euryscop (to use two recent examples where this came up) to shoot their portrait. I find that my subjects enjoy knowing. Whether my Ektar was made in 1946 or 1948 or 1952, I don't really care.

Dan

[IanG]

Jim, C. P. Goerz American Optical Company of various locations in New York, not to be confused with American Optical Company of Springfield, Ma, was set up by C. P. Goerz and was an independent company. Goerz American and C. P. Goerz don't seem to have co-ordinated assignment of serial numbers. Same goes for C. P. Goerz and licensees, e.g., Ross, and CZJ and licensees, e.g., B&L, Ross, Suter, Krauss, Koristka, ... And after CZJ took over C. P. Goerz Dagors were numbered in the CZJ series.

The C.P. Goerz New York factory set up in 1899 was not independent until 1905, so like the Mill Hill, London, Zeiss manufactured Tessar's the early US made Dagor's may have initially followed the German numbering.

Ian