WHAT happened to this shutter?

[RichardRitter]

What caused it to fail?

Clue lens was mounted on a board but was not on a camera at the time it failed.

Winner get the matted 8 x 10 contact print shown.

Answer on Monday if no one comes up with the right answer.

[BarryS]

Total shot in the dark: The lens + lensboard experienced an impact and the torque from the lens sheared off some screws and broke the shutter.

[Nathan Smith]

Well, it does look like it took a hit somehow. The, uh, black ring thingamabob there on the top layer in that left portion is broken, parts of it are missing on the right side.


Total shot in the dark: The lens + lensboard experienced an impact and the torque from the lens sheared off some screws and broke the shutter.

[Jeremy Moore]

Lens was being held while a retaining ring was being torqued on the back of the lensboard or vice versa. Too much force and breaky-breaky.

[Gem Singer]

Someone tried to un-screw the shutter that was mounted on a metal lens board while the index pin was still attached.

[Carsten Wolff]

Liquid Nitrogen, tight filter, frostbitten hands....happens all the time...

[domaz]

The shutter blades are missing. That would do it.

[Richard Rankin]

Apparently the rest of you are just too young to see - a 3 year old grandkid did that...

Cheers,
Richard

[bvstaples]

My guess...

Dropped in the toilet, bouncing off the porcelain rim on the way down...

[Jim C.]

Someone either used the aperture lever as a grip to unscrew the shutter
or they pushed the aperture lever too hard thinking it was the shutter cocking lever.

[DanK]

Did the upper left screw head break off and 'play' around inside?

Dan

[Brian Stein]

on the RHS picture the rim is dinged, not on the LHS. Deduction: front bit of shutter came off and hit deck.
the lens and board were off the camera. Deduction: the lens was being changed in some way.
the shutter appears to have sheared nicely. Deduction: torque was applied.
the lens was on a board. Possibilities: torque was being applied to remove lens from board, attach to board, or in changing lens cell. Probability favours gradual increase in torque in attaching, and shear plane in front of board makes this unlikely, hence removal of "stuck" lens or lens cell more likely to lead to lethal force application.
Shear plane is just at Front of lens board. Deduction: lens cell more likely to be source of torque.

Envisaged scenario: lens and board removed from camera, aim to change lens cells. Twist, snap, horror, drop, ding.

[RichardRitter]

Someone tried to un-screw the shutter that was mounted on a metal lens board while the index pin was still attached.

If it was a metal board the pin would break off and could deform the back of the housing. Making the use of the aperture hard to move.

If it was wood the lens board would have a score mark in a arc where the pin is located.

[Gem Singer]

Richard,

I am well aware of the effect of un-screwing a shutter from both metal and wood lens boards while the index pin is in place.

That's why the first thing I do before mounting a shutter on a lens board is make sure that the index pin has been removed.

I don't like making holes in lens boards to accommodate index pins.

Judging from your pictures, it appears that the shutter was dismantled by someone who didn't know what they were doing. Springs,screws, and small parts are missing.

[BrianShaw]

I think it was used onone of the NASA missions and became detached from the camera during a spacewalk. After orbiting the earth for a few decades it re-entered the atmosphere and broke apart during re-entry.


p.s. the fact that large format cameras are used by NASA during space missions is a very very very highly sensitive piece of information, so please don't repeat it in situations where the wrong people might hear.

[Photomagica]

Richard,
On the left we see the back interior of the Copal shutter with the shutter blades in place, the plate that retains the shutter blades is in place but the diaphragm blades and everything behind that missing except for a portion of the body casting. On the right we see the diaphragm control disk (silver) and part of the shutter body casting (black) that has broken away.

The bad news is that Copal does not supply replacement body castings - so this is now a parts shutter.

The Copal body casting is brittle and it is not unusual to see one where the rear shutter threads have been broken off right at the base, likely due to serious over tightening of the retaining ring.

In this case the shutter body broke in the flat areas inboard from the rear threads. This leads me to believe the lens shutter experienced sideways torque of a type that would effectively "pry" it apart. I don't see damage to the diaphragm control ring so it was probably not a case of some misguided person literally prying the lens off the board. Instead an event occurred where the unit experienced a sharp strike to the edge of the lens board, a fall to a hard surface perhaps. Then the sudden deceleration of the heavy front element on the lens provided the torque to snap the body casting.

It is hard to tell in the little image, but I also observe the broken edges of the casting appear black rather than sliver or gray. This leads me to believe the casting was weak at the break points and is black because porous areas were infiltrated by anodizing solution when the shutter was coated. This suggests a more modest blow one would anticipate have been needed to break the shutter along the line of weakness.

Great puzzle. Thank you Richard!

[Bill Burk]

I get the feeling from the fracture all around, that it was a crushing force. Something very heavy landed on top of it while it was sitting on something very solid.

I can imagine two scenarios: You were out in a boulder field and a rock just missed you but landed on the lens. You set it down for a moment and forgot about it until you heard the thunk as you drove right over top of it.

[dsphotog]

Whatever the cause, they sent it to the right guy for repair!

David Silva
Modesto, Ca

[John Bowen]

Personally, I believe the photograph on the right is part of the solution. Now let me see if my Sherlock skills can solve this riddle....

It is quite obvious the image of the stream was taken in VT's White Mountains. From the angle of the shadows, it can be determined this image was taken in the fall, late one afternoon. A very careful review of the photograph indicates the presence of moose in the area. From these clues, it is most obvious that a moose must have scared the photographer who, reacting in horror, dropped the lens causing the trauma described by Photomagica above.

Richard, you can hold the print until I see you in a couple weeks :-)

[RichardRitter]

John you were 20 feet behind me when the photo was taken.

[RichardRitter]

A lot of ready go stories for why this shutter failed.

Let me baffle you a little more the second shutter was also damaged (deformed) but not as bad.

[Phil]

Richard,

This is easily a disqualification! The White Mountains are in New Hampshire and the Green Mountains are in Vermont.

I'd just send him one of those "Brake for Moose - It could save your life" bumper stickers as consolation prize.

[Sirius Glass]

Richard,

This is easily a disqualification! The White Mountains are in New Hampshire and the Green Mountains are in Vermont.

I'd just send him one of those "Brake for Moose - It could save your life" bumper stickers as consolation prize.

Vermont ... isn't the state motto "Live, Freeze and Die"? :confused:

Steve

[David Karp]

The shutters were in a case for shipping and then entrusted to airline personnel. :)

[sanchi heuser]

Photographer was carrying his equipment 10 miles through Alaska.
Photographer built up camera.
Photographer was waiting for good light.
Photographer got hungry.
Photographer was eating a chocolate bar.
Photographer did not clean finger.
Photographer puts a lens on the ground.
Big bear came and confused the lens with a chocolate cake.
Big bear tried to eat the lens.
Big bear destroyed the lens.
Big bear found the photographer's lunch bag.
Big bear walked away with the bag.
Photographer got very hungry.

[Steve Goldstein]

May as well throw my hat into the ring...

Since you gave the hint of a second shutter that suggests both were in some kind of common case or package. The photographer put the case down near the edge of some sort of precipice, and it somehow went over and down a long way. Some along its rapidly accelerating journey it struck just right and sheared.

What happened to the glass?

[Jim Graves]

Or ... and, I've almost done this ... twice: The photographer set his lens bag down while he opened the car trunk ... loaded the rest of his gear in the trunk ... forgot about the the lens bag and wondered what that bump was when he backed up.

[jnantz]

dropped the lens/es while installing them on the camera ?

[Paul Kierstead]

Since I am sure plain ol' dropped lenses are a dime a dozen to richard (he has to have seen more then a few), I'd expect this one has to be something more 'original' to warrant the interest.

[RichardRitter]

Glass is OK had to be cleaned

[jnantz]

Since I am sure plain ol' dropped lenses are a dime a dozen to richard (he has to have seen more then a few), I'd expect this one has to be something more 'original' to warrant the interest.

;)

but sometimes it is the most obvious thing that people don't think about ...

[Steve Goldstein]

Hmm...glass is OK, had to be cleaned. Could our poor unfortunate photographer have put his wet photovest, containing a couple of board-mounted lenses, into the dryer?

[John Bowen]

John you were 20 feet behind me when the photo was taken.

I knew that :D

[John Bowen]

Richard,

This is easily a disqualification! The White Mountains are in New Hampshire and the Green Mountains are in Vermont.

I'd just send him one of those "Brake for Moose - It could save your life" bumper stickers as consolation prize.

VT/NH.....it's all the same to a New Yorker who relocated to VA

[John Bowen]

Richard,

Is this that famous lens that was dropped in salt water causing corrosion and broken when the owner over torqued it?

[Gem Singer]

Enlarged photo showed signs of rust, as well as deformation of the aperture ring. Shutter was probably immersed in water.

My revised evaluation is that the camera bag containing the shuttered lenses, mounted on lens boards, was accidentally dropped into the river shown in the second photo.

[John Bowen]

OK a new guess.....

This is the lens mounted on the Zone VI camera that you and Bruce repeatedly knocked over while making the Camera Repair in the Field with Richard Ritter DVD...

On second thought, your OP stated the lens was not attached to a camera, so this wild ass guess is wrong :-(

[Brian Stein]

Two shutters: bag with lenses in it, car trunk closed thinking there was clearance, but alas, the shearing of metal.....

[Sevo]

As it ought to be a odd one, my guess would be "dropped into water and frozen".

[RichardRitter]

One day when I was working at Zone VI someone from the other side of the country called and asked where in Maine is Vermont.

[RichardRitter]

Lenses where mounted on Ply wood lens boards that got wet for a unknown amount of time. The ply wood swelled and warped towards the front of the lens deforming the shutters. The one shown was the worse case. The area that broke on the shutter is the weakest area of the housing.

I have seem quite a few shutter ruined by ply wood lens boards. Its a shame when its a really good lens mounted in a Ilex #5 shutter that was improperly mounted on ply wood.

If you insist on using ply wood lens boards the best thing to do is mount the lens with a heavy duty flange that is screwed on to the board. If the board decide it is going to warp it will pull the screws out and the shutter will survive.

[RichardRitter]

The salt water lens was used in the taping of the DVD. It was dropped way too many times and since the shutter was no good . The owner of the lens dropped it a few times on cement and rocks. There is still some bits of stone in bedded in the front housing. And yes the shutter housing is deformed from all the abuse.

[SAShruby]

Lenses where mounted on Ply wood lens boards that got wet for a unknown amount of time. The ply wood swelled and warped towards the front of the lens deforming the shutters. The one shown was the worse case. The area that broke on the shutter is the weakest area of the housing.

I have seem quite a few shutter ruined by ply wood lens boards. Its a shame when its a really good lens mounted in a Ilex #5 shutter that was improperly mounted on ply wood.

If you insist on using ply wood lens boards the best thing to do is mount the lens with a heavy duty flange that is screwed on to the board. If the board decide it is going to warp it will pull the screws out and the shutter will survive.


Lenses where mounted on Ply wood lens boards that got wet for a unknown amount of time. The ply wood swelled and warped towards the front of the lens deforming the shutters. The one shown was the worse case. The area that broke on the shutter is the weakest area of the housing.

I'm on Neptune, shooting hurricanes, still Sunday here. Does it count?

[RichardRitter]

Sure shipping has to be covered by you so send 1000 oz. of gold. Delivery time about 50 years.

[SAShruby]

Sure shipping has to be covered by you so send 1000 oz. of gold. Delivery time about 50 years.

Nah, too late, I'm back home, came back last night. Save you shipping costs.