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View Full Version : Shen Hao XPO? Sinar Shutter? Any other options?



joelorbita
8-Sep-2010, 01:02
Hi, I am interested in the new Shen Hao XPO because of its ability to attach a Sinar shutter to it... I have only just found out about both these products.. While the use of barrel lenses is appealing and is what most people would probably want the combination for, I am also interested in using medium format lenses on my 5 x 4 with a roll film back.. Currently I have a Chamonix 45N-1 which is a folding field camera but I was wondering how hard it would be to attach this Sinar to other field cameras? Maybe one of the non folding varieties is easier? I have been looking at the Ebony SW45SIII for its extreme wide angle ability.. Is the only other option a Packard shutter for each individual lens? I noticed that the fastest speed of these is 1/25 which is really too slow for me I guess.. Also, they probably don't make it in a size for medium format..

Any one with any thoughts or suggestions on this topic would be greatly appreciated. Cheers joel

Bob McCarthy
8-Sep-2010, 09:08
I believe the S-H is the only camera to use the largish Sinar board in 4x5. The easy solution is to find a Sinar f on the cheap, excellent camera btw.

Bob

Ken Lee
8-Sep-2010, 09:33
If I recall correctly, someone on eBay was selling adapter boards for a variety of non-Sinar cameras, within the last year or so. They were made in China, and looked nicely done.

Several forum members have made their own adapters - you can search for postings which show their handiwork.

And of course, you can also have someone make an adapter for you. Richard Ritter, for example.

On a non-folding camera, you can leave the shutter on at all times if you like. Putting it on a folding field camera will probably result in its no longer being able to fold - unless you take off the shutter of course. If you only use it occasionally, then who cares.

I have gone the other route: taking my non-vintage lenses off their Copal shutters, and mounting them onto Sinar DB boards. That way, you get the full advantage of the system, even in the field: being able to control the camera from behind, without having to walk to the front of the camera to adjust anything, open anything, or close anything. You also get an SLR-like "depth of field preview', by holding the shutter down gradually. Those boards are bigger than Technika boards, but they don't weigh very much. I currently have a Rodenstock 150, Macro Sironar 210, and Fujinon 240 and 300 mounted this way. They can always be returned to their original shutters if required.

Bob McCarthy
8-Sep-2010, 09:51
I should note my post was referring to field cameras. Many monorails can use Sinar boards, but which ones specifically, I don,t know.

Bob

joelorbita
11-Sep-2010, 22:25
Hi, Thanks so much for the responses, greatly appreciated!! Ken, I read the FAQ on your website and found it extremely informative indeed! So am looking to keep with the field camera system as I do a lot of travelling.. So as it stands, the Shen Hao XPO is the only one camera that comes designed with this shutter in mind? Would it be hard to have one of the other non-folders converted to accept it? The ones I have been looking at are the Walker XL series (either the 45 or 57) and the Ebony SW45SIII. Any thoughts as to whether these models could have the Sinar shutter left on and still fold in for transport/travel as they exist at the moment? By looking at the article by Richard Sexton on the ebony website

http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/fold.exp.html

it looks like the 45SU when fully compressed has a lot of room left... Would the shutter potentially get damaged when left on for travel?

Ok, thanks so much again, cheers Joel

joelorbita
18-Sep-2010, 20:48
Hi, I have contacted Hiromi at Ebony with regards to the ability of attaching a Sinar Shutter to one of their non-folders but he has not responded back.. Does anyone know if this would be possible? Anyone know how to get in contact with the guys over at Ebony? I have also contacted Mike Walker but his email has responded saying he is out of office till later this month..

Anyone know of any other cameras that might be suitable? I liked the idea of the ebony because of its wide angle ability (and I presume this comes in handy when using medium format lenses) but am definitely open to suggestions.

Ok, thanks so much.. Best Regards Joel

Ken Lee
19-Sep-2010, 03:53
http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroom/redbook/collection/moriya01.jpg

Sinar Shutter on a Deardorff
http://homepage2.nifty.com/akiyanroom/redbook-e/collection/moriya.html

People have put Sinar shutters on a variety of cameras. Below are a few pages from this forum where this has been discussed. (I remember seeing others, but couldn't find them. You can search the forum for "Sinar Shutter" and "Sinar Copal Shutter").

Almost any camera can accommodate a Sinar Shutter. You just have to be willing to make, or have made, an adapter: that's what Shen Hao did.

You can send your existing camera to Richard Ritter (http://www.lg4mat.net/) or SK Grimes (http://www.skgrimes.com/), and they will work with you, to your satisfaction. Alternately, you can take your camera to a local machine shop, and they will make one for you. They will probably bill you by time and materials. In any case, it might cost more than your existing camera, because it's a "one-off" or custom job.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=60289

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=46110

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=31348

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=58181

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=57638&page=3

rdenney
19-Sep-2010, 08:54
[CENTER]Almost any camera can accommodate a Sinar Shutter. You just have to be willing to make, or have made, an adapter: that's what Shen Hao did.

What Shen-Hao did goes beyond that a bit. They made an adapter for the lens board, sure enough, but the bellows attachment on the rear of the front standard and the front of the rear standard are directly compatible with Sinar without any adapter. Thus, you can mount the shutter on the back of the front standard, as Sinar intended, and even mount a barrel lens in a Technika board on the front side.

As to handling wides, it appears to me that the XPO can handle lenses about as wide as anyone would want when using a Sinar shutter. Remember that no matter what camera one uses, the lens must mount all the way in front of the shutter, and wides typically have large rear cells that require a cone-shaped board. The DB boards could accommodate only as short as 65mm, and that required the double-pleated bellows (Wide Angle Bellows 2), when used with the Auto-Aperture Shutter. Shorter lenses, including the Sinaron Digital/Sinaron WE lenses when used with the Expolux shutter were mounted behind the shutter, inside the camera, near as I can tell from the Sinar literature. The focal lengths for those go down to 35mm for use on the Sinarcam. Standard DB-compatible lenses only go as short as 45mm in the literature.

Any medium-format lens retasked for a view camera using the Sinar shutter will, I believe, work on the XPO with the right wide-angle bellows. The 45mm lenses for Mamiya and Pentax SLR's, for example, have a retrofocus design that allows more bellows draw than a more symmetrical double-biogon design like the Super Angulon on Grandagaon (aka, Sinaron-W). They should mount in front of the Sinar shutter without the need for cones, if the right adapter can be fabricated.

The XPO should accommodate a 47mm Super Angulon XL (or older 5.6) mounted in its own shutter. This was something we discussed when the camera was introduced a few months ago.

Thus, I don't really understand why it would be the case that an Ebony would allow wider lenses when used with a Sinar shutter. There are other differences between a high-end Ebony and a budget Shen-Hao, of course.

Rick "for whom bellows compatibility is at least as appealing as lens-board compatibility with the XPO" Denney

Ken Lee
19-Sep-2010, 10:48
Rick - You're so right. Here's a photo that shows where the Sinar Shutter properly sits:

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/tech/SinarShutter.jpg

As you say, the front of the bellows goes into the rear of the shutter - and the front of the shutter goes into the rear of the front standard.

Ken "who admires Rick's reliable rightness" Lee

joelorbita
27-Sep-2010, 18:14
Hi, Thanks so much for the replies! Am slowly getting my head around this.. So I tried my Sinar Vario Zoom Back on my friends XPO and to my dismay, it doesn't even fit into the back properly! So much for using the Sinar Shutter with medium format lenses. Has anyone else ever tried this?

To RDenney, with response to the Ebony mentioned, I was only referring to its ability of using wide angle lenses, and I heard that medium format lenses might need to be closer to the camera for some reason. Also, I thought that the XPO could only go down to 70mm or so?

I haven't been able to get onto anyone at Ebony so I am thinking of going the Shen Hao option, purely based on the fact that Mr. Zhang has been very helpful with all enquiries and is quick to respond. Will email him and see if the back can be modified to fit my roll film back.

Thanks so much for all your help, greatly appreciated. Best Regards Joel

rdenney
28-Sep-2010, 07:53
So I tried my Sinar Vario Zoom Back on my friends XPO and to my dismay, it doesn't even fit into the back properly! So much for using the Sinar Shutter with medium format lenses. Has anyone else ever tried this?

...Also, I thought that the XPO could only go down to 70mm or so?

In what way did the Vario back not fit the XPO? This needs to be documented (with pictures if possible) so that it can be corrected. I doubt that this is an intentional interference, and I would want it corrected before considering the camera for myself. Did you only attempt to slide it in, or did you also try locking it in using the Graflok tabs?

I can't see anything in the mechanical design of the XPO that should limit it to 70mm. Where did you get that number? I do not know what limitations are imposed by the shutter, and there may be interference with the shutter and the rear standard that establishes this minimum. Exclusive of the shutter, however, it seems as though it should accommodate shorter lenses easily when using the correct bellows.

Most 6x6 or 6x7 lenses are designed for a camera with a mirror box, and usually provide at least 74 mm or more of clearance behind the lens at infinity focus. Some cameras are much more (the Mamiya RB is 112, but the focus mechanism is behind the lens on that camera, not built in as with, say, the Pentacon Six or the Pentax 6x7). Lenses with shorter focal length have the necessary retrofocus design to accommodate the mirror. Short view camera lenses do not.

Rick "who'd like to try an XPO" Denney

Lachlan 717
28-Sep-2010, 14:28
It's mounted in a Copal; however, my 72mm easily (repeat: easily) focuses at Infinity on my XPO.

If I get a chance, I'll throw the bag bellows and the Sinar shutter on, rack it in and measure the draw.