Info wanted on brass waterhouse stop mechanism

[buzzardkid]

Hi, I was given a box of old LF gear and in it found two brass shutterless lenses. One is marked 'J.L & S Opticians' and a single waterhouse stop that screws into the front, the other only is marked with '101' and has a sort of waterhouse stop mechanism mounted to the front.

Interestingly enough, both waterhouse stop and mechanism have the exact same diameter so they are interchangeable. I estimate both lenses to be approx 360mm.

I'd like to know more about them, any info is welcome. I attached pictures.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=44649&stc=1&d=1283118616

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=44650&stc=1&d=1283118646

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=44651&stc=1&d=1283118678

[Steven Tribe]

J.L & S is J.Lancaster & Son. B in the shield stands for Birmingham. And the shield is the "Coat of Arms" for Birmingham.
At one time, Lancaster announced saying "we are the largest maker of lenses in the world" which may have been true.

I can't quite put these parts together in my mind - it's late here!
These are early lenses from Lancaster - their later lenses have distinctive engravings. "Opticians" is early too.
These look like two identical landscape meniscus lenses with removable front stop(s) - they changed the design quite often. 14" is a large size made for 8x10" format. These are interesting as most later Lancaster landscape lenses have non-removeable iris apertures.

[buzzardkid]

Thank you Steven, that already is 100% more than I knew before!

The lenses are not completely identical, barrel designs and rear element mounting rings are different. One has the Lancaster engraving, the other not. The waterhouse stop assembly is just marked '101', rather crude and not even levelled. This is both on the front rim and the rotating waterstop disk, the barrel itself is unmarked. I reckon this is impossible to find any information on which is too bad since the waterhouse stop assembly is quite nice, I would have loved to know more.

[Steven Tribe]

Don't give up yet! A. Darlot is known to have sold also completely unmarked early landscape lenses with tiny "AD" impressions in some of the brass parts inside faces. The shown example is from a achromatic landscape lens like yours - on the back of the lid!

[Ernest Purdum]

I am being a quibbler, but Waterhouse stops are those that slide into a slit on the lens barrel. You seem to have a "washer" stop and a "rotary" stop.

[Chauncey Walden]

I've always called the "rotary" a wheel.

[Ernest Purdum]

"Wheel" will also do.

[buzzardkid]

hello guys,

thanks for helping me so far. I've spent some time online trying to find a match to either one of my lenses but have had no luck so far.

Although I am interested in shooting with shutterless lenses, I might be tempted to sell these if the price would be at all appealing, to support the purchase of a shuttered Symmar 210 lens for the camera I have in the mail.

Question: what should these lenses fetch when put on sale? Thanks for your replies!

[Stephane]

I have a symmar 210mm (convertible to 370mm). It covers 8x10. Maybe you want to trade? I am getting rid of all my shuttered lenses and this is the last one...
One of your lens would go for around 100 euros (see this one here: 130428132239).

[Steven Tribe]

There was a request for a meniscus landscape lens on the FS/WTD section (this is a HINT!) a week ago. Your sizes are suitable for full plate/8x10" depending on the edge characteristics wanted.

[buzzardkid]

I have a symmar 210mm (convertible to 370mm). It covers 8x10. Maybe you want to trade? I am getting rid of all my shuttered lenses and this is the last one...
One of your lens would go for around 100 euros (see this one here: 130428132239).

funny: that lens on eBay had the same markings as mine, but the seller did not know what those markings are... I'm lucky to have asked you guys!

At the moment money is tight so I'd prefer EUR 100 for it. Stephane, you can have the 'wheel-stopped' lens for that price if you like, and I'll like to get that Symmar of yours for EUR 100 in a few months if it's still there. Sending PM.

[Steven Tribe]

If you read the "questions" at the bottom of the listing you will find an explanation which looks very familiar to me! Guess why!