Super-Angulon 90 f/8 vs Super-Symmar 80XL (and 110 XL)

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Dear All

Having spent the last few days searching the archives here and on other forums and having had a long and close look at MTF and relative illumination diagrams, I am still not sure if it makes much sense for me to replace my SA 90 f/8 with a SS 80XL.

Why would I be thinking of doing that? I shoot mostly landscape with Ebony SV45TE with which I have travelled extensively and backpacked over the last 10 years. I shoot mostly B&W (which I have been doing for the last 30 years) with a very occasional colour.

My lenses are 90 SA f/8, 150 Apo-Sironar-S, 210 Apo-Symmar, and 300 Nikkor-M. I tend to use all of them. The 210 and 90 perhaps got more action because I got them when I started my LF adventure in 2001 whilst the other two joined me only three years ago.

Recently I felt I would like to have more choice on the wider end as on my upcoming trip I will take more closer pictures of curvy weathered rock. :) So my revamp of the wider end started first with a desire for a SS 110 XL. But then I thought, well, perhaps the 80 XL would be a nice replacement for the 90, spacing it further from the 110 yet also smaller and lighter than the 90. So I looked through the resources, and for all I can understand from MTF diagrams at infinity at f/22 the performance of my old SA 8/90 is awfully similar to the 80 XL. Would the focussing brightness of 80 be much better (90 is not great)? Then some say the fall-off of 80 is worse. And so on... Choice can be an ugly thing.

What about the more subjective opinion of those of you who have experienced those lenses? Above all, does it make sense to be replacing the pretty good 90 f/8 with the 80 XL? Would I be missing anything about my old SA 90 f/8? Should I just save my money? For what it is worth, I have never felt I needed to use a CF with the 90.

Thank you all for your wisdom and I apologise if this thread touches on a subject that has been discussed in other ways many times before. Still, the last three days of reading make me believe that you guys and girls really love to talk about your lenses so perhaps you won’t mind my questions.

Regards from Ireland,
Rafal

[Bob Salomon]

Why not the 75 or 90mm 4.5 Grandagon-N lenses?

[Arne Croell]

Just out of curiosity, where did you find the MTF for the old SA 90mm f/8? I know that both https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/index.htm
and http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm carry lens brochures, but usually these do not have MTF curves for the really old lenses.

[Brian Ellis]

I had your same four lens combination except that instead of a 150 Sironar S I had a 135. I replaced the 90mm SA (mine actually was a 5.6) with the 80mm XL because I wanted something wider than the 90. I originally planned to just add a 75mm lens but I didn't want to carry five lenses around and the difference between 75 and 80 isn't all that much. So I replaced the 90 with the 80 and forgot about the 75, which gave me the wider angle I wanted without adding a fifth lens. Plus the 80XL was a lot smaller and lighter than my 90mm f5.6 so I saved some size and weight as well. It made sense for me, I don't know whether it does for you or not.

In terms of technical quality of photographs, I didn't notice any difference between the 90 SA and the 80XL. But then I never made comparison photographs either.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Arne, you can download the MTF for the 8/90 Super-Angulon from here: http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/foto/an_su/pdf/AN_SU_56_90_R36085_2AD.PDF - the older lenses data files are a bit buried under the "Oldies" section of the site, navigated to from "Fotografie" link on their home page. The older Super-Angulons have their technical data at this link, but it is all in German, which I guess you won't mind. :) :http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/foto/an_su/an_su.htm

Bob, the reason I passed over the 75 and 90mm Grandagon-Ns was primarily on account of their weight and the feeling that I might not need their movement range as I mostly take landscapes. Besides, I already have a 90... Other than that, the 75 and the 65 Grandagons were the first lenses that I looked at when I started this quest for expanding my wider-angle end of the lens kit.

I look forward to your wisdom, thank you all in advance for your suggestions.

Rafal

[Nigels]

I did just that - I replaced my 90/8 SA with the 80/4.5 SSXL. I must admit, however, my prime motivation was the darkness when trying to focus the 90. The 90 was my first lens on my first LF camera and when I got my second lens, a 150/5.6, the darkness thing became obvious. Robert White gave me a good exchange deal so I took it. Very pleased I did too. Not demanding enough to say there is a performance advantage, I certainly got results I was happy with from the 90 but it seemed more of a chore using it. I also backpack with my LF so the weight issue was also a bonus.
As for a centre filter, I shoot landscapes and have never had cause to use a CF with the 80. Hope this helps.
Regards, Nigels.

[Rafal Lukawiecki]

Nigel, thanks for the comment - I follow almost the same path it seems, as the 8/90 SA was my first lens and I am now in contact with Robert White about the "upgrade".

Am I right in understanding you that focussing brightness of the 80 XL is as good as your 150 and way better than the 90? Are you using a special glass or a screen? And I wonder if you think the extra width of the angle of view you that you got on your camera (I presume 4x5) was worth the upgrade.

Thanks, Rafal.