New Cell Coverage in Death Valley NP

[Laura_Campbell]

For those visiting Death Valley this coming season, there's a new cell tower in the park located at Furnace Creek. While coverage is supposedly spotty outside Furnace, I've heard reports of the coverage reaching other areas within the park such as Badwater, Zabriskie, and to the north in Titus Canyon. Recent article at the Sierra Wave: http://news.sierrawave.net/eastern-sierra-news/3566-new-cell-tower-helps-save-three-lives-in-death-valley

[Juergen Sattler]

Oh no, now we have to put up with cell phone users yapping away even in Death Valley NP. Last week I was in Arches NP and at every viewpoint there was some moron on his cell phone talking very loud how beautiful the scenery is. I just wish they'd scramble all the signals in the parks (really everywhere outside the cities):-)

[Vaughn]

My first reaction was something along the lines of Juergen's. And even when I first read the article I was thinking along the same lines. But then I realized that having cell coverage will reduce the number of dead bodies the rangers will have to deal with, and that is a good thing. Few things will ruin a ranger's day more than having to deal with a dead stinking body.

[eric black]

People will forget to bring enough water with them on a 120 degree days hike into the dunes, but they probably wont forget their cellies. I also have mixed feelings about this-fortunately Im usually hiding out mid-day when I visit there and not dealing with the masses.

[Jim Noel]

Oh no, now we have to put up with cell phone users yapping away even in Death Valley NP. Last week I was in Arches NP and at every viewpoint there was some moron on his cell phone talking very loud how beautiful the scenery is. I just wish they'd scramble all the signals in the parks (really everywhere outside the cities):-)

I second the motion!!

[IanMazursky]

Put up a warning, “Cell Phones are only to be used in case of emergency! Violators will be dealt with!!!”
Let them fill in the blanks. I cant stand cell phones on trains, people don’t either care or know how loud they’re talking.
But on the other hand, safety is a real concern in areas like that. Hauling a body from the left of nowhere has to be a real ordeal.

[Jim Ewins]

Speaking on a phone so others can hear you is bad manners, speaking on a phone while driving is a danger to others and forbidding their use is dictatorial.

[D. Bryant]

My first reaction was something along the lines of Juergen's. And even when I first read the article I was thinking along the same lines. But then I realized that having cell coverage will reduce the number of dead bodies the rangers will have to deal with, and that is a good thing. Few things will ruin a ranger's day more than having to deal with a dead stinking body.

The coyotes will pick them clean after a few days, just leave them where they lie unless they present an eye or nose sore.

Maybe a few dead bodies laying about will remind the living how dangerous Death Valley is. After all they don't call it Death Valley for nothing. ;)

[Michael Gordon]

Darwinism should be permitted to prevail.

What's next? WiFi at the Racetrack?

[Laura_Campbell]

I'm not looking forward to hearing phones ring while taking in the views, but safety is a huge issue there particularly during summer. Until I started living next to the park, I didn't think DV saw many visitors during summer. But there's been a steady stream all summer, and many seem unaware of the dangers. I met a tourist traveling by motorcycle at Death Valley Junction one evening where it was a cool 110F. He pulled up in the shade where I was sitting to ask where the next gas station was. He then replayed the story of running out of gas in Death Valley where he'd been rescued by NPS who brought him a couple of gallons for his tank. Rather than return to Furnace Creek for more gas, he left the park and was concerned about running out of gas again by the time I met him. Sigh!

[Vaughn]

Unfortunately, with the coming of cell phones, GPS, etc, people have come to expect to be saved from whatever silly chances they may take -- depending more of machinery than on common sense. Witness people getting stuck in the snow on unmaintained roads just because their GPS told them to go that way.

The only solution I can think of is to charge full price of rescue serves provided, and charge families for body retrieval (think of it as a littering fine). That and not hanging out at viewpoints where there are lots of people to begin with.

[Curt]

What!!! I Can't Hear You!!!, Someone Next To Me Is Using Their Big Wood Camera And Mouthing F This And F That At 1/2 SECOND WHAT A ^&^%^&%(^!!!!

I'LL CALL YOU BACK WHEN I GET ON THE ROAD. BY THE WAY HOW IS THE KELOEIUIN AT EHIAHI HTAKE IS ITEHA DOING IEUIOANKJ OH YEA OITJEIOURI A.

[patrickjames]

The best places in Death Valley don't have tourists anyway. :)

[Laura_Campbell]

The best places in Death Valley don't have tourists anyway. :)

Yes, like the Confidence Hills, Ibex, Harry Wade Road.... :)

[Preston]

"Unfortunately, with the coming of cell phones, GPS, etc, people have come to expect to be saved from whatever silly chances they may take -- depending more of machinery than on common sense."

Try as we may, we can't protect people from themselves.

While I agree to a certain extent that cell coverage in DV is a good idea for the sake of safety, the use of phones should be limited to making contact with the Park Service, and 9-1-1.

Given the number of people that hike up Mount Whitney each year, I wonder when a tower will go up on the summit... "Help! (puff-puff-puff) I have really (puff-puff-puff)bad blisters, (puff-puff-puff) and can't walk! (puff-puff-puff). I want a (puff-puff-puff) Reeescue!"

I often wonder what happened to proper preparation, common sense, and self-reliance?

--P

[Dave Jeffery]

[Two rangers inspecting a dead body at Death Valley]

Rnager 1 "It looks like he brought his cell phone but forgot water"

Ranger 2 "My goodness! It looks like someone pulled out some of his teeth for the gold!?"

Ranger 1 "And his friends said he was wearing an nice watch which is gone!"

Ranger 2 "And his wallet is gone"

Ranger 1 "But look! That's odd, whoever did this left behind a very expensive digital camera"

Both rangers in unison "SOMEONE FROM THE LARGE FORMAT PHOTOGRAPHY FORUM!!!!"

[Dramatic Pause]

Ranger 2 talking into the mic on his radio "Put out and APB on all old geezers with wooden cameras"

The plot thickens.....................

[Paul_C]

A lot of people can't stand photographers. I don't care much for small children.

Guess what? When you go out in public part of the bargain is dealing with the public. Smokers, people on their cell phones, children, and yes - those damn photographers.

Suggesting that cell phones should be banned or limited only to uses you approve of is no less repugnant than suggestions of banning photography in public or allowing pictures to only be taken of pre-approved locations and subject matter.


I often wonder what happened to proper preparation, common sense, and self-reliance?

It's common sense to be properly prepared with gear that can help get you out of a jam. It's common courtesy to be properly prepared with gear that can help you help others out of a jam.

[Sirius Glass]

Common sense and common courtesy are not as common as they were in the past.

[eddie]

Common sense and common courtesy are not as common as they were in the past.

maybe if we left these people to their own accords we would eventually not have them any longer.....they would stop breeding and there would be less stupid people left.....

how does that song go? "only the stupid people are breeding".....

[Michael Gordon]

Unfortunately, with the coming of cell phones, GPS, etc, people have come to expect to be saved from whatever silly chances they may take -- depending more of machinery than on common sense. Witness people getting stuck in the snow on unmaintained roads just because their GPS told them to go that way.

Substitute snow for sand, and this is exactly what happened in the exceptionally remote Owlshead Mountains region in the lower SE corner of DVNP just last year. STORY (http://oldtrailmaster.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/owlshead-mountains-death/).

My belief is that those who rely on technologies like GPS, SPOT, cell, for navigation and life support are more likely to end up stuck or dead because of them. I'll take common sense, a map and compass, and a gameplan over any devices any day of the week. If I can't save myself, I don't expect anyone else to be able to.

[Jan Pietrzak]

Ah, the good old days of CBs. On the way down to Bad Water a car pass us at a good rate of speed. I know this road some what and know that afew of the bends and turns can not be taken real fast. Well, you might know the rest of the story. We saw a dust cloud in the distance. As we came up on the car it looked like it had rolled. Yes we got on the CB (not good range) and did the E channel call. We had to go past before I could turn around. Still on the CB, 2 or 3 of the cars behind us stopped. I stopped at one of the high points calling for help. A very short time later the first Ranger showed then the rest. At that time I though it was time to go down and tell them what I saw. One of the Ranger came up the the truck and we talked and thanked us for stopping. He saw my antenna and said if you talk to 'Ford Alaskan' tell them thanks for the E Call, he said it had gotten bounced all over the valley until we got it and where able to send units out. The folks in the car just got banged up a pit, but the rental was a total.

Jan Pietrzak
Oh ps did tell you I drove a Ford with a

[Vaughn]

Substitute snow for sand, and this is exactly what happened...

Another thing...about 4WD. If people drive in such a way that they get stuck with 2WD vehicles, when they get 4WD vehicles, they'll just get stuck further out in the boonies.

[Jan Pietrzak]

Vaughn,

Back in the old days, (the 70/80's) of Death Valley, some one rented 4wds, after a year or two of going out to get them unstuck. They stopped doing the rentals. It was so much fun to see the east coast city folks deal with the tow truck drivers out in the desert.

Jan Pietrzak

[Sirius Glass]

Substitute snow for sand, and this is exactly what happened in the exceptionally remote Owlshead Mountains region in the lower SE corner of DVNP just last year. STORY (http://oldtrailmaster.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/owlshead-mountains-death/).

My belief is that those who rely on technologies like GPS, SPOT, cell, for navigation and life support are more likely to end up stuck or dead because of them. I'll take common sense, a map and compass, and a gameplan over any devices any day of the week. If I can't save myself, I don't expect anyone else to be able to.

I can get lost on my own without GPS.

Steve

[Sirius Glass]

Another thing...about 4WD. If people drive in such a way that they get stuck with 2WD vehicles, when they get 4WD vehicles, they'll just get stuck further out in the boonies.

Those of us who know what we are doing do not have these problems.

Steve

[Mark Barendt]

It's common sense to be properly prepared with gear that can help get you out of a jam. It's common courtesy to be properly prepared with gear that can help you help others out of a jam.

None of us are born with common sense and courtesy, common sense and courtesy is purely cultural.

I grew up exploring California's deserts, Northern Mexican deserts, and Death Valley, I knew the risks early. I hung out with people who viewed painting the underside of there vehicles blaze orange as "common sense" because we "knew" eventually we were probably going to be alone and upside down and the search plane would be able to spot us better.

I have very smart successful friends that grew up in close to me in So Cal that had no clue about desert survival, let alone about the need to check the dipstick now and again or even how to change a flat tire. These smart successful people navigate in worlds that I don't understand, where I don't have common sense.

The "fall" of Death Valley and other isolated areas into cell coverage means that many people will never experience or understand "wilderness".

An entire set of common sense rules and courtesies is about to disappear, it's language lost to "can you hear me now?".

[Paul_C]

Mark, motor vehicles have done a lot more to destroy "wilderness" than cell phone coverage ever can.

[Dave Jeffery]

"Far more common but no less perilous, park workers say, are visitors who arrive with cellphones or GPS devices and little else — sometimes not even water — and find themselves in trouble."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/science/earth/22parks.html?_r=1&hp

Same story at the NY times.

[Paul_C]

Great article.


Cathy Hayes was cracking jokes as she recorded a close encounter with a buffalo on her camera... Seconds later, as if on cue, the buffalo lowered its head, pawed the ground and charged, injuring, as it turns out, Ms. Hayes.
...
A French teenager was injured after plunging 75 feet this month from the South Rim of the Grand Canyon when he backed up while taking pictures.
...
The national parks’ history is full of examples of misguided visitors... putting children on buffalos for photos

Yet for some reason I don't think I'll hold my breath waiting for an outcry to ban cameras from people here.



The service acknowledges that the new technologies have benefits as well. They can and do save lives when calls come from people who really are in trouble.
...
Like a lot of other national parks, Rocky Mountain does not allow cellphone towers, so service that visitors may take for granted is spotty at best. "Sometimes when they call 911, it goes to a communications center in Nebraska or Wyoming," Mr. Patterson said. "And that can take a long time to sort out."

One of the most frustrating new technologies for the parks to deal with, rangers say, are the personal satellite messaging devices that can send out an emergency signal but are not capable of two-way communication.

...without two-way communication, the rangers cannot evaluate the seriousness of the call, so they respond as if it were an emergency.

And these are great arguments for putting up cell towers.

[Jim Galli]

I'm a local. I don't bother going to death valley because no matter where I set up my tripod, some other "culturally challenged" photog will set up his tripod in front of me.

We drove 2 unrestored Model T's and a Model A through Titus canyon one year. No cell phones. Lots of water. The old cars with the skinny tires did little damage. Of course there were only about 1/3 the people on earth then.

[Michael Gordon]

It's coincidental that just yesterday I finished reading California Desert Trails (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1149312076?ie=UTF8&tag=micegorfinpho-20&link_code=as3&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=1149312076) (1919), written by Joseph Smeaton Chase, and in the Appendix he provides some "Hints on Desert Travelling", primarily:

"With some persons, however, the faculty of getting lost amounts to genius. They are able to accomplish it wherever they are. The only suitable advice for them is to keep out of the desert. There are safer places in which to exercise their talent."

[Laura_Campbell]

I'm a local. I don't bother going to death valley because no matter where I set up my tripod, some other "culturally challenged" photog will set up his tripod in front of me.

Jim have you checked out the southern portion of the park? I live just south of Jubilee Road about 8 miles from the southern entrance. I rarely see anyone in that area of the park. Last spring I made many trips there and counted one tourist. The Confidence Hills, west of Harry Wade Road, are similar to Zabriskie, and further south are Ibex Dunes which has low visitation. These places are well worth a visit, particularly if you want to get away from the crowds.

[goamules]

Fortunately there are true Wilderness areas that don't have cell phone towers, nor roads. You can't get your vehicle stuck in a Wilderness, because you can't have a vehicle. You walk in, you walk out, you better know what you are doing.

I wish more of the great areas in the Southwest had become designated Wilderness, like Ed Abby and Aldo Leopold wanted, instead of the drive up windows they've become. You walk in for 6 or 8 hours, you usually don't encounter anyone, much less anyone with a working cell phone. Of course, LF photography in such places is a pain.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Damndest thing is you can be standing at a high point and have several bars signal strength on your cell phone, twenty-five miles from a tower, yet not be able to connect due to distance/ping timing restrictions on the 3G/CDMA protocol.

So the sense that a cell phone offers any reliable or addtional security in the backcountry is pretty much a fiction, ever since the networks have gone 2nd generation digital.

[Sirius Glass]

Mark, motor vehicles have done a lot more to destroy "wilderness" than cell phone coverage ever can.

Paul, evidently you are not familiar with Tread Lightly. Nor are you aware that off-roading groups only use legal roads and are against driving on or across areas that are not designated a legal roads.

I have never widened a trail because I could not get past an obstacle nor have I ever driven where a trail did not exist. I'll bet you have hiked of a trail and destroyed crytobiotic soil while hiking with the Sierra Club.

Steve

[Paul_C]

Paul, evidently you are not familiar with Tread Lightly. Nor are you aware that off-roading groups only use legal roads and are against driving on or across areas that are not designated a legal roads.

Roads being legal or not has nothing to do with it. Like goamules said:


You can't get your vehicle stuck in a Wilderness, because you can't have a vehicle.

[Sirius Glass]

Roads being legal or not has nothing to do with it. Like goamules said:

Irresponsibility is wrong whether it is driving off designated trails or walking/hiking on crytobiotic soil. Both cases are examples of being where one is not supposed to be.

[Mark Barendt]

Paul,

The problems with cell phones is rooted in a different landscape, a social and experiential one.

Why shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't the principle of wilderness be applied in that sense too?

A lack of cell coverage in Death Valley does not limit anyone's physical access to Death Valley, it's only a social limit.

[LF4Fun]

"Technology Leads More Park Visitors Into Trouble" from the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/science/earth/22parks.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss) :D

[Frank Petronio]

Just paint em in Earth Tones and stop bellyaching about them, all these treehuggers waste so much energy yakking about a non-issue, they just want their own private elite wilderness experience no matter how many people die. That seems more immoral to me.

Just like all those poor loggers put out of work because of a freaking owl. Ridiculous. Maybe their families can eat owls before they have to go on Food Stamps.

[rguinter]

Those of us who know what we are doing do not have these problems.

Steve

My kind of vehicle. But after selling my landrover I'm saving for a Quigley van.

Just too much photo equipment to take in a Jeep.

No kidding though... love the Jeep shot. And that little hill is more than I would have tried. Cheers. Bob G.

[rguinter]

...Of course there were only about 1/3 the people on earth then.

Jim: Someday a lot more of us will realize the truth of this statement.

But I'm afraid (by then) many of the dire predictions of D. H. Meadows, et.al., "The Limits to Growth" 1972 will already have come to pass. Bob G.

[rguinter]

...Damndest thing is you can be standing at a high point and have several bars signal strength on your cell phone, twenty-five miles from a tower, yet not be able to connect due to distance/ping timing restrictions on the 3G/CDMA protocol...

Oh how I hate when that happens.

Perhaps all those hours studying radio theory in the 60s was valuable after all. I never seem to have that problem.

A hundred watts on one (or more) of the amateur bands was always enough to have clear communications from anywhere remote I ever was. Bob (KC2UU) G.

[Michael Gordon]

Just paint em in Earth Tones and stop bellyaching about them, all these treehuggers waste so much energy yakking about a non-issue, they just want their own private elite wilderness experience no matter how many people die.

The proliferation of humans and their infinite and various forms of shit are far from a non-issue, Frank. Some of us in the west value viewsheds that aren't cluttered with the artifacts of a consumptive species.

Y'know, the whole "private elite wilderness experience" thing is used rather often (most likely by those east of the Rockies) but couldn't be further from the truth. I simply like knowing that there is something out there far bigger than me, than us. What is bellyaching about preservation?

Wallace Stegner:
That is the reason we need to put into effect, for its preservation, some other principle than the principles of exploitation or "usefulness" or even recreation. We simply need that wild country available to us, even if we never do more than drive to its edge and look in. For it can be a means of reassuring ourselves of our sanity as creatures, a part of the geography of hope.

[Sirius Glass]

My kind of vehicle. But after selling my landrover I'm saving for a Quigley van.

Just too much photo equipment to take in a Jeep.

I did not plan on getting into off-roading. If I had I would have gotten a Wrangler. The short version is that my youngest daughter had put off driving for a year to save household expenses [Note: I had full custody of my two children, the ex got my dog, the dog was pissed ... we are talking California.]. So when I got a job offer for a little yellow box company in western New York state, you probably never heard of it - Eastman Kodak, I bought her the car of her dreams so that she could get around on her own. Three years later when she was going back to Santa Cruz to school after a weekend visit, a 360 mile trip, going 70 mph the car stalled. She called me and coaching her over the phone she got it started. Back at Santa Cruz it cost $1k to fix. A month later on the way back she had different problems, which I got fixed. She loved the car but was afraid to drive it back and forth to school. So I tried to drive the wheels of by going to Death Valley, Bristlecones in Inyo NF, Devil's Post Pile, Bodie, ... Took my girl friend to see the National Parks in Utah and Arizona. Too much time on my hands and thought I could put some tow hooks on the front and go to a Jeep Jamboree in Moab. The Jeep Jamboree told me what I had to do to get the Jeep built up to do off-roading.

The concept was to be able to get to places I could no longer hike to. Well, that led to what you see in the photograph.

The upshot is that since I did not start with a Wrangler, I have lots of space for camera equipment and on dusty days I can use the air conditioner. My girl friend and I go to the mountains and the deserts for photo expeditions.

And every once in a while, I end up hauling out a Sierra Club member that broke his leg.

Steve

[Drew Wiley]

The last three weekends I have encountered hikers lost on coastal trails, and in all
three instances they were on hillsides where all a person had to do is actually look in order to see where the trail headed. But in all three instances they had their eyes
glued to a GPS device instead. In one case - some friendly twenty-somethings, they were trying to find their way back to a firehouse in town where the trailhead began, and were arguing over the data on the GPS. I said, "See the trail down there, and see that big building with a flag, great big door, and big red trucks about half a mile away?" If they had followed the GPS they would have crawled through half a mile of poison oak. And I still recall an instance when a German hiker chewed me out for
despoiling a high country lake by propping up a big wooden tripod and 8x10 in front
of it. That was after he stumbled over quite a few rocks looking for the lake while
staring at his GPS. The lake was right in front of him the whole time. "Nice GPS", I
replied, "is that the same model John Muir used?"

[Brian C. Miller]

Many years back, my brother bought me a GPS. I thought it was a ridiculous waste of money. Then a few years ago I took it on a trip to Christmas Valley, OR, with a friend who is an amateur geologist. You know, somebody who ought to be able to read a map. Of course we got "lost" on the backroads. He said, "I know that the GPS says we're here, but I know that we're really here." So finally I had enough and made him ask a farmer for directions. The farmer said, "You've got an old map!" And so we were set straight. :) Visiting the Lost Forest was quite interesting, though. (I bought my friend a GPS with a lanyard on it, and named the GPS "albatross".)

The tools are only as good as the person who uses them.

[rguinter]

... The Jeep Jamboree told me what I had to do to get the Jeep built up to do off-roading.

The concept was to be able to get to places I could no longer hike to. Well, that led to what you see in the photograph...Steve

Great story Steve. Mine is similar. From visiting my uncle's wilderness camp so often over so many years... one thing led to another. First photography, then the landrover so I could carry my ever increasing amount of gear to places that needed good photos.

Had to sell the old bugger though several years ago and the camp was lost to landowner changes.

But as someone famous once said, "I'll be Back!"

Thanks for the story. Bob G.

[Dave Jeffery]

"I'll bet you have hiked of a trail and destroyed crytobiotic soil while hiking with the Sierra Club."

Just for fun........

Imagine if you were hiking on a really windy day with the Sierra Club, in a really huge flat area that was almost completely covered with crytobiotic soil and you inadvertantly stepped on just the wrong spot that allowed the wind to get under the crust and start lifting it, and then the whole crust starts peeling up and away from you and you can't possibly stop it!? All the people you are with watch in horror as the delicate crust which was minutely and slowly formed by cyanobacteria over many decades almost instantly gets stripped away in MASSIVE sheets for MILES and this continues until it's far beyond what the eye can see, and this nightmare that is playing out is entirely due to YOUR club footedness!
Next, while everyone watches in a state of total shock, what little soil and sand that was protected by the cryptobiotic soil crust quickly gets blown away by the strong winds leaving in the aftermath a rocky and totally desolate wasteland that will never support life again.

If you hike in the desert please make sure that you don't crack the cryptobiotic crust at the exact spot that will turn the whole area into a total wasteland.


Pay attention please!
:)

[Mark Barendt]

The last three weekends I have encountered hikers lost on coastal trails, and in all three instances they were on hillsides where all a person had to do is actually look in order to see where the trail headed. But in all three instances they had their eyes glued to a GPS device instead.

There are stories about this kind of problem from the dark ages. Essentially if you wanted to know something, say, how many teeth a horse had, you were expected to ask the powers that be rather than look in the horses mouth.

[Mark Barendt]

Many years back, my brother bought me a GPS. I thought it was a ridiculous waste of money. Then a few years ago I took it on a trip to Christmas Valley, OR, with a friend who is an amateur geologist. You know, somebody who ought to be able to read a map. Of course we got "lost" on the backroads. He said, "I know that the GPS says we're here, but I know that we're really here." So finally I had enough and made him ask a farmer for directions. The farmer said, "You've got an old map!" And so we were set straight. :) Visiting the Lost Forest was quite interesting, though. (I bought my friend a GPS with a lanyard on it, and named the GPS "albatross".)

The tools are only as good as the person who uses them.

Actually they are only as good as the map in them too.

Analog maps in an analog situation are self correcting. Even if there are errors in scale or placement on the globe.

Many of the maps stuffed into the GPS units have survey errors.

Places like the 4 Corners monument, where Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, and Colorado meet, were originally built about a mile from the right spot.

Analog maps show reasonable relationships between the roads and the monument, easy to find; dial in the real coordinates of where the 4 states meet into your GPS and you will get confused.

[Frank Petronio]

Imagine if you were hiking on a really windy day with the Sierra Club, in a really huge flat area that was almost completely covered with crytobiotic soil and you inadvertantly stepped on just the wrong spot that allowed the wind to get under the crust and start lifting it, and then the whole crust starts peeling up and away from you and you can't possibly stop it!? All the people you are with watch in horror as the delicate crust which was minutely and slowly formed by cyanobacteria over many decades almost instantly gets stripped away in MASSIVE sheets for MILES and this continues until it's far beyond what the eye can see, and this nightmare that is playing out is entirely due to YOUR club footedness!
Next, while everyone watches in a state of total shock, what little soil and sand that was protected by the cryptobiotic soil crust quickly gets blown away by the strong winds leaving in the aftermath a rocky and totally desolate wasteland that will never support life again.

If that ever happens just quickly drop trou and pee on the flaking crust to reseal it.

[Sirius Glass]

If that ever happens just quickly drop trou and pee on the flaking crust to reseal it.

:o

[rguinter]

"I'll bet you have hiked of a trail and destroyed crytobiotic soil while hiking with the Sierra Club."

Just for fun........

Imagine if you were hiking on a really windy day with the Sierra Club, in a really huge flat area that was almost completely covered with crytobiotic soil and you inadvertantly stepped on just the wrong spot that allowed the wind to get under the crust and start lifting it, and then the whole crust starts peeling up and away from you and you can't possibly stop it!? All the people you are with watch in horror as the delicate crust which was minutely and slowly formed by cyanobacteria over many decades almost instantly gets stripped away in MASSIVE sheets for MILES and this continues until it's far beyond what the eye can see, and this nightmare that is playing out is entirely due to YOUR club footedness!
Next, while everyone watches in a state of total shock, what little soil and sand that was protected by the cryptobiotic soil crust quickly gets blown away by the strong winds leaving in the aftermath a rocky and totally desolate wasteland that will never support life again.

If you hike in the desert please make sure that you don't crack the cryptobiotic crust at the exact spot that will turn the whole area into a total wasteland.


Pay attention please!
:)

Dave: Your point is great. I'm in total agreement.

Humans and their ancestors have been stepping on the Earth's crust for all of (their) time. When groups like the Sierra Club start worrying about what soil we are treading then something is radically wrong and they are addressing the wrong problem. We are not here to protect anything.

As another poster pointed out, there are 3-times the number of people on the planet now than there were when he was a child. Therein is the problem that needs to be confronted. Not whether or not any particular person is treading any particular piece of delicate soil.

As the population is progressing, it won't be long before all cryptobiotic soils are trampled simply due to the sheer number of people walking and taking "the road less travelled by."

Bob G.

[Nathan Potter]

Let's not obsess too much. Death Valley is well named. Maybe we should honor the name.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[evan clarke]

Oh no, now we have to put up with cell phone users yapping away even in Death Valley NP. Last week I was in Arches NP and at every viewpoint there was some moron on his cell phone talking very loud how beautiful the scenery is. I just wish they'd scramble all the signals in the parks (really everywhere outside the cities):-)

Perhaps the entire world:D

[rguinter]

Worse than that. They're in the gym on the eliptical trainer, right across from the bench-press of course, yammering at the top of their lungs, in languages other than English also of course.

Used to be that one wanted a bit of privacy on a phone call. And often looked for an enclosed phone-booth.

Alas no more. Unless we plug our ears, we are now forced to listen to the insipid drivel virtually everywhere we go.

What's an old frog like me to do?........ Bob G.

[dsphotog]

I think cel service in DV is a good thing, it could save the life of an LF'er someday!
About 15 years ago, a girlfriend & I were shooting in DV, I had a strange feeling that we should get home...... Her dad had died that day! With no cel service, we couldn't be reached.

[Brian C. Miller]

Substitute snow for sand, and this is exactly what happened in the exceptionally remote Owlshead Mountains region in the lower SE corner of DVNP just last year. STORY (http://oldtrailmaster.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/owlshead-mountains-death/).

What is really disturbing about this (for me) is that this could have been easily avoided by mopping up the dew each morning.

Tom Brown (http://trackerschool.com/) (wilderness survival expert, book author) had a couple of students who, one morning, took a car sponge in each hand, and raced around sponging up the morning dew on rocks and such. These two guys filled up a 30 gallon can with water.

When someone rides with me in my Jeep, I always get a comment about the stuff I have in the back. Yeah, I think that something could happen while I'm out and about. But chance favors those who are prepared.

[rguinter]

I think cel service in DV is a good thing, it could save the life of an LF'er someday!
About 15 years ago, a girlfriend & I were shooting in DV, I had a strange feeling that we should get home...... Her dad had died that day! With no cel service, we couldn't be reached.

I was on the East Branch Penobscot River ca. late 1980s. On the way back to camp coming down the river we spotted another canoe coming our way. It was one of the few Maine game wardens that actually knew the area. He was searching for us where it was reported to him that we would be.

There were no cell phones or other coverage at that time except for amateur radio. We were all licensed amateurs on the trip.

Turned out that another amateur had relayed a message from home (600 miles away) that one of our camper's wives was in emergency.

The amount of anxiety that message caused was quite off the chart. And the bottom line is the camper with us could do nothing to assist with the emergency anyway. But he was able (with great difficulty) to arrange a flight back the next day and get to the hospital to find his loved-one comatose but in good hands.

Sorry to sound cold... but I find myself wondering just what good all that effort to get an emergency message through really did. There was nothing much the camper could have done anyway from that distance and getting back even a day or two later would have made no difference at all.

Bob G.

[jp]

Damndest thing is you can be standing at a high point and have several bars signal strength on your cell phone, twenty-five miles from a tower, yet not be able to connect due to distance/ping timing restrictions on the 3G/CDMA protocol.

So the sense that a cell phone offers any reliable or addtional security in the backcountry is pretty much a fiction, ever since the networks have gone 2nd generation digital.

I've been to a bunch of places like this; offshore islands. If you reboot your phone, you will be able to make calls. I think the phones get re-associated with towers that aren't going to work (perhaps for the distance/timing limitations) because they have a strong signal, and stay connected with those towers, even though it's not a good functional choice.

Some phones allow you to force the phone to roam as well, which could get you some more options.

Amateur radio is the most foolproof option. Simplest infrastructure, longest range.

[rguinter]

I've been to a bunch of places like this; offshore islands. If you reboot your phone, you will be able to make calls. I think the phones get re-associated with towers that aren't going to work (perhaps for the distance/timing limitations) because they have a strong signal, and stay connected with those towers, even though it's not a good functional choice.

Some phones allow you to force the phone to roam as well, which could get you some more options.

Amateur radio is the most foolproof option. Simplest infrastructure, longest range.

Yes I agree. Of all the trips I've made to wilderness areas over the years I have always had reliable communications to the outside. Even now cell-phone communication seems a bit primitive in comparison.

But in the days when I was studying radio theory the whole licensing thing was much harder than it is today. Now it is rather easy with no morse-code requirements and relaxed theory requirements. One does not need to be an RF engineer to pass today's exams.

And more licensed members are needed. There is constant pressure from the RF business sector to take the amateur spectrum away. Goodness... it is free to use and doesn't make anyone any money.

I would encourage all who are here reading this thread (and traveling frequently to wilderness areas) to look into it. Bob G. KC2UU

[Brian C. Miller]

I would encourage all who are here reading this thread (and traveling frequently to wilderness areas) to look into it. Bob G. KC2UU

Oh, yeah, a mobile 80m Yagi beam antenna is gonna be really spiffy! :eek: I'll have to put training wheels on my Jeep for that thing! No, I'm not burning donuts, I'm rotating my antenna...

[goamules]

I agree bellyaching about people on cell phones is kind of silly. But certainly I don't want to throw out the whole idea of being conscious of what is left of our wilderness and wildlife. Loggers are out of work because we cut the last of the forests. The tiny, TINY specs that are left were about to be wiped out just like 95% of Americans old growth was. Have you looked at how many acres of even the iconic redwood were cut the last 20 years? Have you looked at how technology overfished the Grand Banks cod that had sustained Americans for 400 years? There are no cod left - fishing is over. Let the people "have jobs" for another, what, 10 years, and decimate what's left? I don't think so. I could tell you stories about how China is following our 19th century lead right now....give it 50 years and see what's left: people and pavement.

[Drew Wiley]

You're right, Goamules. Real wilderness is getting scarce worldwide, and here in the
USA what we have are really managed preserves, often under assault, and not many
cases of real wilderness capable of protecting itself by tooth and claw. The idea that
this is land "locked up" from the public is nonsense. I'm a lot more worried about the
long-term public good being locked out from massive amounts of land being given over to the destruction of a handful of greedy shortsighted commercial concerns. All one has to do is fly over the West to see roads and disruption everywhere, and many of
our national parks have commercialized theme parks and development right on their
boundaries. But people also underestimate the effect of noise pollution. Contrails all
through our skies are annoying to us as photographers, but mechanical noise from
low-flying aircraft can spoil an escape from the techie drone existence of everyday
America. Unlike in the city, one can choose to walk away from someone obnoxiously using a cell phone in the back country, or just not travel with them in the first place;
but once roads and towers are there, the special quality of wilderness itself is
violated, and further tampering with the land is almost inevitable.

[Kirk Keyes]

I could tell you stories about how China is following our 19th century lead right now....give it 50 years and see what's left: people and pavement.
I agree.

I guess I need to go and get in line for my rations of Soylent Green...

[David Luttmann]

Finally. When I was there last, I wanted to grab a few cell shots to send to my wife back home while I was out with all the camera gear. I could find no service for even a text. And with the hotels in Death Valley ripping you off for long distance at $4 to $5 per MINUTE, I welcome their revenue drying up on this.

[Mark Barendt]

For me one of the big points of going to places like Death Valley is to disconnect from the world.

What is being lost here (with cell service being available) is our ability to "drop out" and "get away" for a week or two without distractions from outside.

What I find truly amazing is the addiction modern society is developing to constant instantaneous contact and the belief that it's truly important, given the banality of most cell phone use (and facebook posts and twitters) I believe the "need" is oversold.

[Laura_Campbell]

For folks who live in isolated areas, like me, where there's spotty cell coverage, connecting to the outside world is important in the event of an emergency. I used to feel the way that many in this thread feel when I lived in more populated areas. But when you're living in an area that is somewhat remote, with hot summers and long travel distances between desert outposts and basic services, that connection in terms of safety is really huge to us. To me, it's a basic service that might come in handy some day. And since I drive around this neck of the woods every day, that means a lot.

Laura "who hasn't used her cell phone in 6 months" Campbell

[Mark Barendt]

For folks who live in isolated areas, like me, where there's spotty cell coverage, connecting to the outside world is important in the event of an emergency. I used to feel the way that many in this thread feel when I lived in more populated areas. But when you're living in an area that is somewhat remote, with hot summers and long travel distances between desert outposts and basic services, that connection in terms of safety is really huge to us. To me, it's a basic service that might come in handy some day. And since I drive around this neck of the woods every day, that means a lot.

Laura "who hasn't used her cell phone in 6 months" Campbell

I'm not against being safe.

Cell phones aren't the only or even the best way to get help. The spottiness is one of it's biggest failings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon For rescue this may be a better choice.

Another option is simply telling someone where you will be and when you will be back.

"Remote and isolated" could be defined by Canyonlands NP back in the 60's.

The norm was to check in with the ranger give them your plan, then go explore the park and check out on time. If you missed your check out a ranger would come looking for you.

It's tough to imagine today but this process was important because when our family did this, unless there was a special event going on, one ranger and maybe a rancher minding his cows were very possibly the only other people in the whole park district. 6-7 people total, sharing several hundred square miles of very unforgiving land.

Cell phones are simply a convenience, not a necessity.

[goamules]

I can think of a few times having a cell phone (and coverage) would have been "nice" but not imperative. Once, my 4runner got stuck in a slot canyon. We had to build a road out of rocks, jacking up the vehicle in stages, putting rock ramps under a side, building up the other side, all with about 6 inches of clearance between the cliff walls. It took about 6 hours to go 25 yards, but we got out. What would a call have done? Told others not to worry, we'll get there...but part of the adventure was dragging in, weary, late, but safe!

Lessons learned: don't go where you can't turn around....and - Do not give up in a survival situation, you're not beaten until you say you are.

[rguinter]

Oh, yeah, a mobile 80m Yagi beam antenna is gonna be really spiffy! :eek: I'll have to put training wheels on my Jeep for that thing! No, I'm not burning donuts, I'm rotating my antenna...

I've seen some 80-meter yagi's and mobile they definitely are not.

But who said anything about 80-meters anyway? There are certainly many other options than that for mobile communications spectrum.

Although hoisting an 80-meter dipole up a couple of trees would certainly do in a real wilderness emergency. I used to do it all the time in the woods with my fishing pole and a heavy sinker. Bob G.

[Joseph O'Neil]

I can think of a few times having a cell phone (and coverage) would have been "nice" but not imperative.


Between my wife and myself, there has been 8 or 9 times we have used the cell phone for 911 calls. 3 times we were in or had bad car accidents - both my wife and I almost got killed, on seperate occasions, with another driver running a read light and hitting us. Twice I was the first on sight (by pure luck) for a fire. Once our daughter got lost on a public beach (that scared the living daylights out of me - everything worked out well, but lesson well learned).

There were a few others two where I was first at an accident site, so in the long run,t he cell phone is a life saver. Litterally in a couple of cases.

What I cannot stand to see, nor understand, is turning a cell phone into a MP3 player or some kind of toy. You play with your phone all day, talk on it all day, run down your battery, and then the moment you need your phone for a real emergency, see what happens. You just might be a candidate for the next Darwin award. :(

joe

[Preston]

Mark wrote, "What I find truly amazing is the addiction modern society is developing to constant instantaneous contact and the belief that it's truly important, given the banality of most cell phone use (and facebook posts and twitters) I believe the "need" is oversold."

I believe this is the crux of the matter. The media, telecoms, and phone manufacturers have convinced the masses that we must stay connected to everyone and everything 24/7, or life as they know it will end. It's no wonder (to my mind, anyway) that people are stressed out and suffering from depression.

I certainly won't argue the value of a phone for high priority or emergency communications; I've reported several fires, potential criminal activity, and accidents over the years.

As I stated earlier in this thread; if there existed a way to limit calls in DV to those of an emergency nature, I'm OK with that.

--P

[Mark Barendt]

What I cannot stand to see, nor understand, is turning a cell phone into a MP3 player or some kind of toy.

I agree with you here, this is the way they are sold and used though.

They also seem to get attached to one appendage permanently which provides a real and dangerous distraction which creates a real hazard.

I work in rural and remote areas, the norm locally is to wave as you pass on any road that has a speed limit under 45.

More than half my drive time is spent at 25MPH or less on roads that about 18 feet wide between the ditches. They are seriously rutted year-round because they are just dirt, with lots of rocks none of us could throw more than 15-20 feet, they are sometimes steep and many are on the sides of mountains where falling off the road could mean rolling off a cliff. These roads are used regardless of what the weather is doing day and night. Driving safely takes real work even when the weather is good.

Anyone that has driven a lawnmower knows that they will turn on a dime and don't do straight all that well, their big brothers, backhoes, have the same problem and are regulars on "my" roads, as are water trucks and drilling rigs that range from 40,000# to 120,000# and are up to 12 feet wide leaving me 6 feet of road. That might work if I drove a Mini but an F250 is a bit wider

I've given up waving at anybody even at 15MPH.

This is because the cell phone that is permanently attached to one arm and one ear of seemingly every driver doesn't move when I wave; the other arm, the one that should be steering, starts waving back at me.

Literally, without a thought, the driver gives up control of their vehicle on a rough and rutted road, instead of giving up on the conversation.

This is a cultural problem, we as a culture seem to believe that we have a god given right to use cell phones whenever and wherever we damn well please and that arranging a date for Friday is more important than living that long.

Cell phones, unless strictly prohibited or where service unavailable, are currently used almost without any thought about how that use will affect or bother anyone else.

Thank sucks.

I'm not against reasonable uses like calling for help, but our society hasn't defined reasonable use yet.

As far as I'm concerned right now, since there is cell coverage in DV already we simply ought to make it expensive. If you need help $50 a minute is nothing and the revenue could go to search and rescue costs, if someone just wants to talk it might make them think twice.

I also think that cell phones should be automatically disabled if they are moving over 5MPH.

Maybe I should call Arnold, he needs new revenue sources. ;)

Fat chance but a guy can have hope.

[rguinter]

...I certainly won't argue the value of a phone for high priority or emergency communications; I've reported several fires, potential criminal activity, and accidents over the years.

As I stated earlier in this thread; if there existed a way to limit calls in DV to those of an emergency nature, I'm OK with that.--P

I agree completely with that.

I recall being at a professional convention in New Orleans ca. 2000 when cell phone usage was still in the early stages. I was on a bus waiting for it to fill up and return us to our hotels for the evening.

The guy next to me spotted a friend just outside our window. He immediately called his friend on the cell phone to let him know he was standing right beside him and to join him on the bus.

Now I was then employed with Bell Labs where much of the cell phone technology originated. But the thought that went through my mind at that moment was: here was a guy using up valuable system bandwidth, on a multi-billion dollar communications infrastructure, paying good money for the minute he used, in order to do something he could easily have done with a tap on the window.

So I see what we are experiencing now is the rapid evolution of this addiction of using the system for little more than trivial purposes.

And with that, in true (large scale) emergencies, the system quickly becomes overwhelmed and crashes completely. Bob G.

[Brian C. Miller]

I've seen some 80-meter yagi's and mobile they definitely are not. Although hoisting an 80-meter dipole up a couple of trees would certainly do in a real wilderness emergency.

Yeah, I know! :) When I was in the Army I used the ones at my station. 80m-10m beam antennas, oh yeah! Europe was available for about 20hrs a day. I've been thinking of getting a Hi-Q for my Jeep.

While getting someone to come out and help you is OK, it is also a good thing to have the ability to get back. I have a Dahon Curve D3 (http://us.dahon.com/bikes/1638/curve-d3), which does pretty well on dirt with its little balloon tires. It folds up nicely and rides well.

[rguinter]

Yeah, I know! :) When I was in the Army I used the ones at my station. 80m-10m beam antennas, oh yeah! Europe was available for about 20hrs a day. I've been thinking of getting a Hi-Q for my Jeep.

While getting someone to come out and help you is OK, it is also a good thing to have the ability to get back. I have a Dahon Curve D3 (http://us.dahon.com/bikes/1638/curve-d3), which does pretty well on dirt with its little balloon tires. It folds up nicely and rides well.

As my uncle, who was Penobscot native used to say, "you'll drive further in an hour than you can walk back in a week." His point: was to be prepared. Busting a prop on a small outboard motor several miles down-river while fishing can wind up being more than a nuisance. And it takes little room to carry a spare and some tools.

And driving sensibly while off-road is also a good idea. I've had my 4x4 in places where I wouldn't have tried to walk. But being prepared to do some basic self-recovery and carry out minor repairs is an absolute necessity. There are some places where busting a driveshaft means that's where it'll stay until it rusts away. Bob G.