H&S Lens for 8x10

[Pawlowski6132]

I have a 370m which isn't even close. How long a lens will I need? I can't even imagine the bellows length ill need.

[Pawlowski6132]

Sorry, allow me to rephrase my question now that I'm at a full size QWERTY keyboard and not my Blackberry.

I'm shooting a 370mm lens on 8x10 and, at not quite full extension, I can only reasonably get a 3/4 portrait shot.

I was wondering what length of lens and bellows extension I could expect to get head and shoulders or even - gulp - headshot.

thanx much in advance,

Joe

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

How long are your bellows?

[MIke Sherck]

What focal length lens would you use with another format? Then convert to the equivalent lens size for your camera and see whether you have a long enough bellows to focus the lens at a reasonable portrait distance.

For example, in round approximations, for a nice head and shoulder portrait on 4x5 I like a lens in the range of 300mm. Double that for 8x10 and I'd need a 600mm lens and perhaps 750mm (30-ish inches,) of bellows to focus it at 6 to 8 feet. I don't have such a lens and even if I did, my camera doesn't extend anywhere near that far. Thus, I can't do a tight head & shoulders portrait with my 8x10 camera. It isn't important to me so I've never made the investment. My 16 1/2" lens will give me a nice waist-up portrait, and that meets my simple needs.

Mike

[cowanw]

You will need a shorter lens. This will let you get more magnification with a bellows that will not be long enough for a 360mm headshot.
Regards
Bill

[John Koehrer]

Do you have any more bellows extension available? You don't really say. If you do, move in. You may experience a little exaggeration of features on your subject.
A shorter lens won't help unless you're willing to move in even closer.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Don't forget that a close head-shot on 8x10 is about 1:1, so your lens works as one twice its focal length, thus a 210mm lens at 1:1 is effectively a 420mm. It is all about perspective, not absolute focal length. Lesser formats don't normally go into the macro range for portraiture.

[Bob Salomon]

You will need a shorter lens. This will let you get more magnification with a bellows that will not be long enough for a 360mm headshot.
Regards
Bill

That will also result in foreshortening and the subject would end up with a larger nose or ears or forehead or chin or shoulders. Remember, objects closer to the lens will reproduce larger then objects further from the lens. That is why you want a longer lens for head and shoulders or most portraiture. You will also have more of the background in focus which you might not want with a shorter lens. H&S portraiture is rarely done with a normal lens and that is what you are suggesting.

Maybe shoot it on 45, 57 or split 57 and enlarge a bit? Then your lens will be long enough.

[Mark Sawyer]

Consider an extended lensboard. We don't know what extension you have to work with, but you may not need much more.

[Jim Galli]

Here's one with a new2me 375mm Bausch & Lomb petzval. Bellows and extension weren't even breathing hard for this one. About 22" iirc. I had the extension on but didn't need much of it. this with the Kodak 2D and Packard shutter.


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/MsclPetzvals/15f5BLPetz/PhilipSomberS.jpg
philip, somber

[cowanw]

That will also result in foreshortening and the subject would end up with a larger nose or ears or forehead or chin or shoulders. Remember, objects closer to the lens will reproduce larger then objects further from the lens. That is why you want a longer lens for head and shoulders or most portraiture. You will also have more of the background in focus which you might not want with a shorter lens. H&S portraiture is rarely done with a normal lens and that is what you are suggesting.

Maybe shoot it on 45, 57 or split 57 and enlarge a bit? Then your lens will be long enough.

What you say is absolutely true. I am just saying if you don't have a longer bellows and you want to shoot 8X10 at 1 to 1 You have got to go with a shorter lens to get that magnification. The OP wanted an 8x10 headshot and doesn't have the bellows length to make his 370mm lens work. With those two parameters as a given only a shorter lens will work.
Of course as has been pointed out there are disadvantages and a longer bellows or a smaller format are alternatives.
Regards
Bill

[Pawlowski6132]

I have about a 29" rail if I recall. Does that seem too short to you?

[Jim Galli]

I have about a 29" rail if I recall. Does that seem too short to you?

30" was normal for an old time field 8X10. You should be able to do a head shot with 370 and 30 inch. 370 is 15" and at 30 you're 1:1 which is too much for a full head even on 8X10. I mean you'll be at less than 1:1 for a head on 8X10.

[Pawlowski6132]

30" was normal for an old time field 8X10. You should be able to do a head shot with 370 and 30 inch. 370 is 15" and at 30 you're 1:1 which is too much for a full head even on 8X10. I mean you'll be at less than 1:1 for a head on 8X10.


Hmmm. Something's not adding up. I had my bellows racked out to almost full extension and was still getting up to 3/4 length portrait. Distance from subject to lens was about 5'.

The lens is a 210/370 convertible. Does that have something to do with it?

[aduncanson]

The lens is a 210/370 convertible. Does that have something to do with it?

Exactly! Reportedly, the rear nodal point (the point from which the Image Distance is measured) for the converted lens is well behind the diaphragm. Focus the lens at a distant object and measure from the film plane one focal length toward the lens. That is approximately the rear nodal point and it should fall well behind the lens. You would need to move the lens another 370mm forward to get to 1:1 magnification.