Some Soft Focus Lens Sales Information

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Royal Portrait Lens F3.8 with Century 10A camera attached for $495 (360757793725)

Kodak Portrait 305mm in No 5 Universal Shutter for $500 (300987799603)

Wollensak Verito 9" in Studio Shutter for $500 (231069569821)

Dallmeyer Soft Focus F/4.5 f=6 inch for $800 (26130477241)

Wollensak Verito 6.125in/4 Diffused Focus Lens #13834 in Compur shutter for $1,375 (221293290167)

Voigtlander Universal Heliar 360mm f4.5 on lens board for $2,250 (261302263148)

[Steven Tribe]

Some modifications to Plasticca detailed in post # 2003!
Condition is average minus - with edge (filter?) breakdown! It is the version engraved with a Belgium agents name.
It has already been listed by the winner (with excellent photos) as item 161134877648. A very different price now. The same lister has more items hot from the Breker auction.

[goamules]

The buy high, try to sell even higher business model doesn't work very well.

[evan clarke]

If you are only interested in using it, you could have this lens MADE for less money.

[Amedeus]

Pinkham Smith P&S Visual Quality no 2 12" f4 for $3,565 (281192257357)

Wollensak Verito 7" for $300 (360770343612)

Cooke Portrait 5.6 Soft Focus Series VI in need of TLC for $382 (380747692445)

Taylor & Hobson Series II. A. Cooke 12 inch f3.5 soft focus on lens board for $2,400 (200949387960)

[Mark Sawyer]

Yup. Even noting the difference in condition, both Cooke's would shoot well. And there's a difference between Cooke Portrait f/3.5's and Cooke Portrait f/4.5's. And between Cooke Portrait f/4.5's and Cooke Portrait f/5.6's...

Still, they're all Cooke's..

[Andrew Plume]

The buy high, try to sell even higher business model doesn't work very well.

yes, it certainly doesn't Garrett. mind you these Eastern European sellers have extremely large pockets

best

andrew

[Pete Roody]

Wollensak Verito 14 1/2" in barrel and in need of some TLC for $474 (271286660235)

It cleaned up fine!

[Amedeus]

It cleaned up fine!

Glad to hear ... congrats !

[Amedeus]

Dallmeyer 4D for $947 (131027423941)

Som Berthiot Eidoscope #3 4.5/275mm # 565955 on lens board for $916 (BOBIN, 251153720960)

Hermagis Eidoscope #5, 150mm f4.5 for $460 (121200003271)

[Emil Schildt]

Som BERTHIOT Paris 190mm f4.5 EIDOSCOPE No.4

GBP 439.00

eBay item number:171160579801

[Amedeus]

Good looking Hermagis Eidoscope #4 F=4.5 #381221, no flange for $1,000 (BIN, 161006124522)

Dallmeyer 4D, no flange for $950 (BOBIN, 171167127653)

[Amedeus]

SOM Berthiot Eidoscope 275 mm F4.5, no flange for $899 (BIN, 200984274613)

Cooke Portrait Lens Series VI 8x10 13.1 In. F/5.6 with flange for $580 (281202406252)

[Emil Schildt]

Objectiv Artiste Formule anachromatique L de Pulligny & C Puyo

£470.50

eBay item number:151159318657

[Mark Sawyer]

Objectiv Artiste Formule anachromatique L de Pulligny & C Puyo

£470.50

eBay item number:151159318657

I bought this one, trying to inspire myself to get back on film for a bit. I've always wanted an "Objectif d'Artiste". One just can't be an Artiste without the proper Objectif! Using it may take a bit of figuring out...

[Emil Schildt]

I bought this one, trying to inspire myself to get back on film for a bit. I've always wanted an "Objectif d'Artiste". One just can't be an Artiste without the proper Objectif! Using it may take a bit of figuring out...

I wanted it badly!!

but it is in good hands!

[Mark Sawyer]

Thank you, Emil! I'd feel guilty, but I know what gems you have. :)

A rare and lovely lens; I'll try to do it justice...

[Emil Schildt]

Thank you, Emil! I'd feel guilty, but I know what gems you have. :)

A rare and lovely lens; I'll try to do it justice...

yes - I do have nice gems - but not this one....

And I am now pursuing something intirely different: a sculpture with two/three bullet holes made in WWII....

Back to the thread..

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Verito 8.75in/f4 in Studio Shutter for $455 (141110790033)

[Mark Sawyer]

You know, a couple of Martinis, and suddenly every lens in this thread looks like such a bargain...

[Amedeus]

Dallmeyer 4D, Waterhouse slots, rear SF adjustment with flange for $1,172 (BIN, 291017195231)

Wollensak Vitax manufactured for Ralph J. Golsen, 10" F/3.8, brass barrel, aluminum flange for $809 (111213269318)

Wollensak Veritar in Alphax shutter, 14", f/6 on lens board for $300 (221313857075)

[Steven Tribe]

Good value for Your GBP, Mark!

It looks all wrong - but that is because the cells are mounted at the wrong ends! So that the engraved scale falls outside the Waterhouse cutout.

[Mark Sawyer]

Good value for Your GBP, Mark!

It looks all wrong - but that is because the cells are mounted at the wrong ends! So that the engraved scale falls outside the Waterhouse cutout.

Yes, it may be mis-assembled, I'll have to study it when it arrives. I'm not sure if it's meant to be used racked forward so the scale and Waterhouse slot are both in the cut out? Or if I even need to worry about chemical vs. visual focus on modern panchromatic film. This one will take some thought and research, and I may have a few questions for you!

[Steven Tribe]

There is the photoclub de Paris book, which covers This and the versions with a negative Rear cell.

[Mark Sawyer]

Steven, I just bought this,

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1924-objectifs-dartiste-Pulligny-Puyo-photographie-/300845444064

...and will have to brush up my French to struggle through it. (I can't find mention anywhere of an English translation, surprising for such an important text. Well, important to us, anyways...)

[Jim Galli]

If you get anywhere with this, please include me. I have the same book and alas my french is far too poor to make any use of it.


Steven, I just bought this,

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1924-objectifs-dartiste-Pulligny-Puyo-photographie-/300845444064

...and will have to brush up my French to struggle through it. (I can't find mention anywhere of an English translation, surprising for such an important text. Well, important to us, anyways...)

[Steven Tribe]

This must be later edition of the original book. I recognize the pages shown in the listing.

The copyright has probably elapsed, and I, and probably others here too, would be delighted to "order" a copy from you or Jim and contribute to your purchase costs. It is readable on-line (very slow) but not downloadable.

[Mark Sawyer]

I think it's a couple of hundred pages long, so it might be too much to post or download. I keep hoping someone will pop up and say, "Oh there's an English translation!" In print or on-line, either one...

I may loan my copy out for someone to scan, post, or translate after I've had it a month or two...

[Amedeus]

If you get anywhere with this, please include me. I have the same book and alas my french is far too poor to make any use of it.

I can help with the French ... ;-)

[Amedeus]

GRAF Variable 7.5" - 8.5" F:3.8 for $680 (131047406294)

[Steven Tribe]

A "good" translation of the usage section would not be too difficult! I did a total "reading" scan of all pages a few months ago and found that the central description of use covered just a few pages with associated line drawings of the scale. I even attempted a translation! I did this in connection with finding out the refractive index of the French glass used. Most of the text is a treatise on optics in relation to periscope constructions, rather than practical use of the O d'A.

As I think the Dallmeyer Soft Bergheim is exactly the same optical construction, I am sure the owners (all 2 or 3?) of this lens would also appreciate a guide!

[Amedeus]

A "good" translation of the usage section would not be too difficult! I did a total "reading" scan of all pages a few months ago and found that the central description of use covered just a few pages with associated line drawings of the scale. I even attempted a translation! I did this in connection with finding out the refractive index of the French glass used. Most of the text is a treatise on optics in relation to periscope constructions, rather than practical use of the O d'A.

As I think the Dallmeyer Soft Bergheim is exactly the same optical construction, I am sure the owners (all 2 or 3?) of this lens would also appreciate a guide!

Can you pdf that section and I'll give it a stab on my upcoming flights ... ;)

[Steven Tribe]

Will try!
Am learning that the iPad has some quirky differences.

Steven

[Andrew Plume]

at yesterday's SAS auction (in the UK), there were some sky high prices paid for five Dallmeyer Petzvals, an excellent 3B and an even better 6A plus three others

from what I can see, these prices were massively in excess (and this is no understatement) of recently recorded sales for the same line of lenses

in each case, the lenses were sold to the same telephone bidder from Slovakia, who also has Ukranian connections. He is, I believe, one and the same dealer who lists on eBay. How he intends to recoup these costs, is obviously unknown to me, unless he intends keeping them for many years. I expect he will also be bidding in Vienna tomorrow

is this, just a blip or a worrying trend?

regards

andrew

[Steven Tribe]

I was unable to follow the bidding yesterday 'cos of iPad limitations, but SAS auctions have shown an incredible inflation with "star" items since early 2012.
The spectre of money laundering has been mentioned before and I didn't take it seriously before now. But to reach unbelievable values there have to be at least 2 bidders.

The last time this winning bidder made clean sweep of "our" items at this kind of auction, the items reached EBay a few days after he had received in the post! So perhaps in about 10 days......?

I think in the rough set of a 3B and 5D, the 5D was missing the final "turn" lens?

[Andrew Plume]

thanks Steven

I deliberately avoided any mention of "ML", because of

I am a large fan of said auction house and the folk there and they do seem to be giving teambrekker and westlicht at least, some opposition and are starting to fill the hole that was left some years ago when Christie's exited the UK photographic auction market

when I looked at the SAS site very recently, the sale prices hadn't as yet been added, forget the very large Swift RR

best

andrew

[Andrew Plume]

here are the prices for the more relevant lenses (18% to be added for buyer's premium & vat)

3A (it really was lovely) £2,700
3B (comparable) 1,700
another 3B and a 5D, pretty good but neither were the greatest - 2,800

regards

andrew

[Andrew Plume]

here are the prices for the more relevant lenses (18% to be added for buyer's premium & vat)

3A (it really was lovely) £2,700
3B (comparable) 1,700
another 3B and a 5D, pretty good but neither were the greatest - 2,800

regards

andrew

[alex from holland]

wow, these prices are HIGH. These are in BP + 18%.
For that price they can by my 3a which is even older and better looking.....

[Petzval Paul]

What is SAS? Haven't heard of that one before, or at least that abbreviation.

[alex from holland]

http://www.specialauctionservices.com/large/cm211113/page007.html

[Andrew Plume]

What is SAS? Haven't heard of that one before, or at least that abbreviation.

here's the link Paul

http://www.specialauctionservices.com/index.php

regards

andrew

[goamules]

Note to self: sell at auctions, don't buy at auctions...

[Petzval Paul]

Thanks, guys!

[Amedeus]

Pinkham & Smith Synthetic Soft Focus Lens Series VI, #2 for $3,000 (151166947622)

[Petzval Paul]

That really seemed like a bit much for a no.2, which, in my experience, is the most common size to run into. Nice lens, though!

[Amedeus]

Good looking 380mm 15" F4.5 Cooke Knuckler Series IIB on lensboard for #3,500 (BIN, 200995082995)

16" F3.5 Wollensak Varium in Studio Shutter with flange for $1,200 (BOBIN, 200995088143)

Happy Thanksgiving all !

[Amedeus]

Wollensak verito 11.5 inch f4 for $315 (221321611523)

[Amedeus]

Hermagis , 375mm F5 Eidoscope NO 2 Brass Barrel, with flange for $1,641 (360801514802)

[Amedeus]

Som Berthiot Eidoscope #4, f/4.5 - 190mm #647310 with flange for $900 (BIN, 281127357788)

[Steven Tribe]

From a bi-annual Swedish auction this last Saturday. Including a 22.5% commission.

Imagon:

F4.5 120mm with prof adapter to Mamiya M645. $415. Included as someone was asking about small soft lenses a month ago!
F5.8 300mm complete boxed set (sinar). $526.

This is an auction which has been held regularly for a very long time and has been noticeably getting very "thin" during the past few years. A few lots of Heliars and a single "damaged" Darlot Cone - but very still disappointing.

[Amedeus]

Good looking Pinkham & Smith Visual Quality Series IV, #4 for $3,500 (151183423547)

DALLMEYER F4.5 3 1/2 INCH Soft Focus lens for $567 (200998839905)

Kodak Portrait 305/4.8 Lens # OA145 with lensboard and flange for $1,650 (BIN, 280970875612)

Wollensak Velostigmat 12" 300mm f/4.5 4x5 8x10 Soft Focus Portrait for $615 (181275036592)

[goamules]

Kodak Portrait 305/4.8 Lens # OA145 with lensboard and flange for $1,650 (BIN, 280970875612)


That price was an aberration from a notoriously overpriced seller. Not sure if you listed another Kodak 305 that sold in Oct for $499 (300987799603) but that's much more typical.

[Amedeus]

Totally agreed Garrett ... I had to look twice by double checking the listing on other E**y sites that this was a real sale ...


That price was an aberration from a notoriously overpriced seller. Not sure if you listed another Kodak 305 that sold in Oct for $499 (300987799603) but that's much more typical.

[Amedeus]

Hermagis Eidoscop Eidoscope f/4.5 #2 Soft Focus Portrait Lens with lensboard/flange for $710 (321268502590)

[Amedeus]

Som Berthiot Eidoscope #5 4.5/275mm #527479 for $820 (BOBIN, 161173525270) and from the same seller ...

Dallmeyer 2D for $900 (BOBIN, 161173525118)

[Emil Schildt]

Dallmeyer 3 b

eur 1,510.00

231112314143

[Tim Povlick]

Is this considered a soft focus lens?

e8*y = 121233368764

I didn't bit but sure nibbled...

_ .. --
TiM

[Steven Tribe]

And a very nice item too!
Some late Petzvals were sold by Hermagis at the same time they were still selling the l'Eidoscope.

[Tim Povlick]

And a very nice item too!
Some late Petzvals were sold by Hermagis at the same time they were still selling the l'Eidoscope.



Hmmm wish I had bit. Oh well.

Thanks for your expertise Steven

Best Regards,

Tim

[Steven Tribe]

These are not so common - Ilex Photoplastic 10.5". Ebay 121236858370. $380.
Just the standard rear lens. Condition is completely impossible to judge.

[Amedeus]

Good looking Voigtlander Braunschweing Universal Heliar 30cm f/4.5 Soft Focus Lens W/Hood for #1,600 (BOBIN, 151186076514)

[Tim Meisburger]

Quick question on protocol. I have a 3B I would like to sell on the forum and because there are many models made for so many years, I'm having trouble determining a fair price. Should I ask that question here (you guys are the experts), or start a new thread in "lenses"? Thanks for your advice. Best, Tim

[Steven Tribe]

Quick question on protocol. I have a 3B I would like to sell on the forum and because there are many models made for so many years, I'm having trouble determining a fair price. Should I ask that question here (you guys are the experts), or start a new thread in "lenses"? Thanks for your advice. Best, Tim

Having recently sold one of these, I am sending you a PM.

Actually, I think this is one of the few SF lenses that has a more or less standard price. Reasonable demand and (for the present) reasonable supply.

[goamules]

Tim, you could go to the site where all these posts are compiled, throw out the lowest and highest prices, and average the rest of the prices they've sold for.

Right now, the simple average including the outliers, is $1703.

[Andrew Plume]

Is this considered a soft focus lens?

e8*y = 121233368764

I didn't bit but sure nibbled...


that's a terrific one

andrew

_ .. --
TiM

[Darren Kruger]

Wollensak 14.5" Verito in studio shutter, 181285594965

$550 USD

[evan clarke]

These are not so common - Ilex Photoplastic 10.5". Ebay 121236858370. $380.
Just the standard rear lens. Condition is completely impossible to judge.

I'd love to habe one of these, but this one had bad pocs and looked a little iffy. Really want one, though!,

[Amedeus]

Happy New Year !

Wollensak Portrait Veritar 14" (355mm) f/6 with Shutter for $825 (BOBIN, 231057355852)

[Jim Galli]

Wollensak 14.5" Verito in studio shutter, 181285594965

$550 USD


Happy New Year !

Wollensak Portrait Veritar 14" (355mm) f/6 with Shutter for $825 (BOBIN, 231057355852)

Go figure. $550 for the real deal, and $825 for the Wannabe.

[Tim Meisburger]

My 3b sold for $1700.

[Steven Tribe]

"Right now, the simple average including the outliers, is $1703".


"Actually, I think this is one of the few SF lenses that has a more or less standard price. Reasonable demand and (for the present) reasonable supply."

Sometimes, the information given here is spot on!

[goamules]

My usual appraisal fee is $100, but I'll let you have this one for free!

[Steven Tribe]

If there is a valuation fee, I would like to claim half, as my PM valuation was £1000 - which is just under $1700!!

[Tim Meisburger]

You can both split my goodwill!

[pierre506]

My usual appraisal fee is $100, but I'll let you have this one for free!

Ohh my goodness~

[goamules]

And Pierre, my usual humor insertion fee is $10, but I'll let you have this one free too!

[Amedeus]

Hermagis Eidoscope #4 F=5 in brass (#110814) for $944 (BOBIN, 161076658006)

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Velostigmat 12" 300mm f/4.5 4x5 8x10 Soft Focus in Studio Shutter for $708 (111246685684)

[Amedeus]

Nice looking Voigtlander Universal - Heliar 36cm for $1,802 (261365447128) and equally nice looking Voigtlander Universal - Heliar 30cm from same vendor for $1,225 (261365431763). Both lenses with flange and leather lens cap(s)

[ImSoNegative]

Wollensak Velostigmat 12" 300mm f/4.5 4x5 8x10 Soft Focus in Studio Shutter for $708 (111246685684)

I have a 12 velostigmat but mine is not SF, but it is without a doubt my favorite lens

[Emil Schildt]

Graf Variable Lens 11-12.5 Inch

300$

I was half a minute late... :(

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Graf Variable Lens 11-12.5 Inch

300$

I was half a minute late... :(

Wow! Nice price. I never even saw it. Could have been a good companion to my 16-18" Graf.

[evan clarke]

Graf Variable Lens 11-12.5 Inch

300$

I was half a minute late... :(

I saw your post and pulled the trigger instantly..I'm usually an hour late..:)

[Emil Schildt]

I saw your post and pulled the trigger instantly..I'm usually an hour late..:)

I need to learn to write the seller before I write on the board....

Good for you.

bad for me...

[Steven Tribe]

Toil yourself, Emil! You can't own everything!

You know where the big Graf is available - but, be warned that is very heavy.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Toil yourself, Emil! You can't own everything!

You know where the big Graf is available - but, be warned that is very heavy.

Steven, yes it is a heavy lens but so, so nice!!

[Steven Tribe]

I was thinking about my own, Jim! The first and cheapest SF lens I ever bought. Perhaps 2014 will be year it really gets used in earnest?

[Emil Schildt]

Toil yourself, Emil! You can't own everything!

You know where the big Graf is available - but, be warned that is very heavy.

I don't own everything!! by a far side....

And this one was on my very top wish list... I saw the add by chance - missed - I am almost out of searching lenses - mostly searching ArtNuveau objects now...

BTW: weight is no problem here... ;)

[Amedeus]

Great price ... I've lost quite a few BIN ...


Graf Variable Lens 11-12.5 Inch

300$

I was half a minute late... :(

[Emil Schildt]

Great price ... I've lost quite a few BIN ...

...and this was NOT on the evil site...
It was on the good one... (APUG)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

That is a steal for a Graf. I'm loving mine!!

[evan clarke]

I was so shocked when I saw it that I almost sprung my back..Couldn't compose the PM fast enough.

[dap]

Igor camera just sold a 7 1/4" Gundlach achromatic portrait meniscus lens for $695 in excellent + condition.

[Amedeus]

Once and a while these do show up ...

Karl Struss 9" pictorial lens on lens board with caps and hood #272 for $3,333 (BIN, 380818060506)

An unmarked version of this lens was sold on this board for $3,500 in December 2013.

[Jim Galli]

Once and a while these do show up ...

Karl Struss 9" pictorial lens on lens board with caps and hood #272 for $3,333 (BIN, 380818060506)

An unmarked version of this lens was sold on this board for $3,500 in December 2013.

And offered here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?106834-Holy-Grail-Stuff-Struss-Pictorial-Lens-No-155&highlight=Struss) for $5,000+. A case where so few are sold that no one really knows what 'might' fly. Waiting is a good posture. $3333 a good buy perhaps. No, my price isn't coming down to match, you'll have to wait some more :cool:

[goamules]

This is exactly the 3rd Struss Pictorial I've seen on Ebay in 7 years of very close watching. I'd say if you want one, and see it for sale, buy it! You may not see another for years. I know I didn't bid high enough on the first one I saw in 2007, and it took several more years before I got mine, a 9 inch. And yes, it covers 5x7 just fine. I like the way the bidder tried to down-talk the lens, to get the seller to take his offer. Sounds like some serious scamming talk to me, from the Questions Asked at the bottom of the auction:
"I just made an offer a minute ago, and forgot to leave a message explaining that I'm also in San Francisco, I'd be happy to pick it up in person, and I'd pay cash if you wanted to save on fees or whatever. Another thing, no way this covers 5x7. The 9" is the least desirable of the Struss lenses because it has very narrow coverage and only works up to 4x5. To cover 5x7 you'd need to find the 15" Struss, and that one IS rare. The Holy Grail of Struss lenses, however, is the 21" for 8x10. In my 30+ years of collecting, I've never seen one. Thanks for your time and consideration!"

A: I have seen some photos online that are 5X7 with a struss 9" and they did NOT show vingnetteing..in the first 20 minutes of the listing I recieved an offer for 2000 . thanks for your time...

With talk like that, and in the city mentioned, I have a feeling I know who wrote that. Rhymes with Scamolski, but I could be wrong....

[analoguey]

Just chanced upon this thread. For a beginner on 4x5 what would be your recommended soft-focus lens, let's say, under 500$.

I'd want to try one of the older models to see if I can get a true vintage/classic look.

[goamules]

That's a great question that will generate a lot of discussion. So we can keep this thread on topic (tracking the prices of sold lenses), I recommend you repost your question in a new thread, "What Soft Focus for 4x5?" or some such.

[analoguey]

I shall just do that, Goamules. Was debating that myself!

[Tim Meisburger]

Soft Focus Dallmeyer Portrait Anastigmat 10” f/3.5. $900

[Amedeus]

Pinkham Bi-Quality 14", f/4.5 with flange and cap for $2,700 (301066514327)

[Petzval Paul]

I've seen more than three Struss lenses on eBay in just the past couple of years, including the fabled 21." Mostly 9" but at least one twelve that I can remember.

[Darren Kruger]

11.5" Wollensak Verito in a studio shutter $473 321295068309

15.5" Wollensak Series II, barrel, with diffusion ring $523 321295062403

[Amedeus]

13" Cooke Series VI portrait lens f/5.6 on Deardorff lens board for $699 (321297264254)

Dallmeyer 2B with flange for $655 (111253387365)

[Steven Tribe]

Rudi, this is not to be thought of as anything other than a curious enquiry - your splendid work with the sales register is much appreciated! But, have you any idea about when we might expect the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2013 to appear?

[Amedeus]

Thanks Steve ... working on it and trying to get this wrapped up before we get into next month ... ;)


Rudi, this is not to be thought of as anything other than a curious enquiry - your splendid work with the sales register is much appreciated! But, have you any idea about when we might expect the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2013 to appear?

[jp]

141170753195
Just snagged a 7.5" verito for $100.
That doesn't happen every day.

[jp]

201023565137
and a 9" gundlach hyperion diffusion for $100 BIN also! Maybe I should get a lotto ticket on the way home.

[Simon Benton]

2 Great Bargains!!!

[Jody_S]

201023565137
and a 9" gundlach hyperion diffusion for $100 BIN also! Maybe I should get a lotto ticket on the way home.

You would think "Billscamera" would at least do a simple google search before listing those. Don't tell Bill. If Bill can't figure it out on his own, I'll see if I can snag the next one.

[Ramiro Elena]

That's not "soft focus lens sale information", that's soft focus lens sale bragging! :D:D:D
Congrats!

[evan clarke]

Jeez! I look every hour and missed both..

[goamules]

God, I thought the days of uber-snagdom were over. 100 bucks??!

I did get a really good, really big, early American radial drive petzval the past few days that way, but not that cheap!

[jp]

I just went to ebay to give some good feedback for a lens that arrived, and you know how they show all the camera porn or whatever your interests are on the main page, it was right there, so I clicked on it. Unusual timing. I'm broke for a little while longer, so someone else can watch that seller.

[cjbroadbent]

350968646017 Busch Rathenow 30cm/4,5 Nicola Perscheid. That's about $2k. Should I buy it?

[8x10 user]

Its hard to tell but that might be the triplet version, and there is a little bloom from fungus. It should work fine but will effect resale value.

[Steven Tribe]

Agree about the bloom.
Not many NP's in this size have been sold recently - you must check the list.
Think this may end up as a "or best offer" sometime.
This is for 5x7 ?

[Amedeus]

It is most likely the less desirable triplet version. I only look at Nicola Perscheids if the lens ring clearly indicates "Portrat Objektiv" ... all those I've seen so far turned out to be the keepers ...


Its hard to tell but that might be the triplet version, and there is a little bloom from fungus. It should work fine but will effect resale value.

[Amedeus]

Pinkham Bi-Quality 14" with flange and original cap for $3,419 (181303923653)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I can't believe I was cash poor for this lens! I mean $499.00 for a Darlot this size is crazy! One bid and I was not in town!

390750421618

[Steven Tribe]

It is amazing how easily we forget what is not a soft lens when we get excited/agitated!

[Amedeus]

Portrait Art Plasticca brass vintage lens 3.5/450mm Serie B #18723 for $3,200 (161134877648)

[Steven Tribe]

This was an interesting Plasticca with the name of the Low Country (Belgium?) imported engraved with the same ( and very distinctive style) layout as Zwerzina's from Dresden. The serial number is quite high, but still a couple of thousand less than one I had from Dresden. So this suggests that, perhaps the Low Countries' Plasticca were sold before production was given up in Dresden.

The separation (just the edges) shown in the photos is a just the slight breakdown of the rear yellow filter.

[alex from holland]

Good price. They can have my 500mm f 4.0 Oscar Simon for much less.... ;)

[evan clarke]

Good price. They can have my 500mm f 4.0 Oscar Simon for much less.... ;)

And how much would that be? :D

[lucaas]

Hermagis Portrait No.6 €421, 231140904715
Is it the same formula as Eidoscope?

[Jim Galli]

Hermagis Portrait No.6 €421, 231140904715
Is it the same formula as Eidoscope?

No, and Hermagis numbers seem to go backwards so No. 6 may be quite small. It is a petzval type.

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Velosigmat 9.5" f/4.5 Series II, soft focus, for $455 (281249835762)

[Amedeus]

This was indeed inscribed (in French) with the name of the importer in Brussels.


This was an interesting Plasticca with the name of the Low Country (Belgium?) imported engraved with the same ( and very distinctive style) layout as Zwerzina's from Dresden. The serial number is quite high, but still a couple of thousand less than one I had from Dresden. So this suggests that, perhaps the Low Countries' Plasticca were sold before production was given up in Dresden.

The separation (just the edges) shown in the photos is a just the slight breakdown of the rear yellow filter.

[Amedeus]

Taylor Hobson 13 inch f/4.5 Anastigmat Series 2 Soft Focus, no flange, for $1,611 (360841057814)

[Amedeus]

I always wonder what happens next with brand name lenses without glass ?

Karl Struss 9" (#718) pictorial lens housing without Glass was offered for $199 (271384491861)

Listing was closed and same article was sold BIN for $500 (271386086416) hours later. Steep if one considers there was no glass in the tube ... but it comes with a flange !

I believe this is the highest serial number I've seen on a Struss lens.

G.Rodenstock munchen soft focus lens 220mm f4 Germany 5*7 inch, no flange, for $599 (201024509235) ... anyone know anything about this specific soft focus implementation ?

[Jim Galli]

Rudi, you would do the community a great service if you keep track of that serial number. My first thought was someone will buy that thing and grind the edges of a magnifying glass lens, a 1F99 and drop it in and sell it to some poor un-suspecting person. When you post this sale on the page, note: missing glass and the serial number so those in the know will have a fighting chance when it re-appears in 18 months.


I always wonder what happens next with brand name lenses without glass ?

Karl Struss 9" (#718) pictorial lens housing without Glass was offered for $199 (271384491861)

Listing was closed and same article was sold BIN for $500 (271386086416) hours later. Steep if one considers there was no glass in the tube ... but it comes with a flange !

I believe this is the highest serial number I've seen on a Struss lens.

G.Rodenstock munchen soft focus lens 220mm f4 Germany 5*7 inch, no flange, for $599 (201024509235) ... anyone know anything about this specific soft focus implementation ?

[anachromatic]

If appears in Ibey also we can bid for.......USD 14200.-:rolleyes:

[Steven Tribe]

I don't know about this soft focus Rodenstock but would suggest the following:

- it is a rebadged Mutar.
- it is triplet design without adjustment other than aperture influence.
- sold for export market when German/Germany association was not a help for exports (1914 - late 1920's).
- sold in very low numbers.

I suppose a sceptic would say that making an achromat (with some home-grown modifications) mirrors very well the original Karl Struss/P&S production!?

[Petzval Paul]

Steven, the Struss lens was actually a fairly thin meniscus. The P&S semi-achromatic was really just a thick achromat, like an old landscape lens, which was supposed to have been hand ground to achieve its exaggerated aberrations. That bit of trivia aside, you ate pretty much on the money, though. Very simple lens designs; the key to their success, optically, was in fine tuning the aberrations to achieve a very unique look. Rudi, there are higher number Stuss lenses out there that have a more modern iris design - the entire ring rotates, as opposed to just the little knob. As far as the old school irises go, this one was the highest serial number I have seen. I agree with Jim completely, btw, this little barrel could be a time bomb for an unsuspecting buyer in the future.

[goamules]

So the details will live forever, for keyword searchers;
Karl Struss Pictorial 9 In 718, that is serial number 718 is missing it's glass. Sold on ebay 28 January, 2014 by seller jcam222211.

If it comes up for sale again with glass in it, it is not original.

Rudi and Dan, can you note that on your website listing of sales? The more places the better.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3687/12222099755_abf1b7f3a1_b.jpg

[Jim Galli]

So the details will live forever, for keyword searchers;
Karl Struss Pictorial 9 In 718, that is serial number 718 is missing it's glass. Sold on ebay 28 January, 2014 by seller jcam222211.

If it comes up for sale again with glass in it, it is not original.

Rudi and Dan, can you note that on your website listing of sales? The more places the better.



Bravo!

[jp]

seems like one sold a couple years ago for not much without glass. Or it could have been a spencer port-land, I don't remember. It's a fair price for parts if anyone is repairing/restoring such a lens too.

[8x10 user]

Its the finest paperweight / pen holder that I have ever seen!

[Amedeus]

Two Spencer Portlands were sold without glass, one in 2012, the other in 2013.

Couldn't get serial numbers, not all Spencer Portlands have serial numbers ...


seems like one sold a couple years ago for not much without glass. Or it could have been a spencer port-land, I don't remember. It's a fair price for parts if anyone is repairing/restoring such a lens too.

[jumanji]

Out of soft focus category, but I remember that one member here asked about a huge Voigtlander petzval missing flint glass (or crown, not recall exactly) that he was offered that lens for $1000, is this a fair price. He did included its serial number. One year later the same lens (same serial number) was up for sale on ebay without any description about the glass missing, and it was sold pretty quick (the price is $5000 IIRC)

[andrehh]

Dallmeyer 5D EUR 839 (111262052550)

[lucaas]

No rear element?


Dallmeyer 5D EUR 839 (111262052550)

[Steven Tribe]

I thought so at first, but is it one of these elongated American labelled D's with the thread (or quasi-thread) extended at the rear. So the rear lens is deep down. Whether it is turnable for soft adjustment is not something I can answer, as they usually appear only in the US. I seem to recall that James Galli esq. knows about these and their history.

[andrehh]

I thought so at first, but is it one of these elongated American labelled D's with the thread (or quasi-thread) extended at the rear. So the rear lens is deep down. Whether it is turnable for soft adjustment is not something I can answer, as they usually appear only in the US. I seem to recall that James Galli esq. knows about these and their history.

This sounds very feasible, as in another auction (390752402882) was the camera showing a plate "Eagle Cameras, New York".

[goamules]

109578
I thought so at first, but is it one of these elongated American labelled D's with the thread (or quasi-thread) extended at the rear. So the rear lens is deep down. Whether it is turnable for soft adjustment is not something I can answer, as they usually appear only in the US. I seem to recall that James Galli esq. knows about these and their history.

I had one of those, and the glass screwed into the very rear. It was NOT inset deep in that threaded part. These were aero reconnaissance versions, from WWI. I have a thread with pictures somewhere here.

Here's a pic of the rear of my 5D, now sold.

109577

[ivans]

wow ..... very nice forum .... a lot of information that I can ..... thank you



http://moviediablo.com/kaylila/upload/18/wso.jpg

[Steven Tribe]

I am not sure about this Dallmeyer. It is certainly built-up differently from Garrett's.

In the enclosed photo from the listing, you can see some sort of deep internal ring opposite the flange area (rear lens mount or support for WHS, if there is one?), but also the very clean internal brass thread - for a depth which looks like the outer mounting male thread depth on a complete rear lens cell.

If the purchaser sees this - and it is indeed missing the double cell - then he should send me a PM, as I wrote to the lister, early in the listing, suggesting this was missing the rear cell section. No reply.

[vitality]

Steven, It looks like support for WHS.
I have 4d which looks the same. WHS is next to the flange (you can actually see on the photo cut for WHS) and rear group is screwed at the end of black barrel. So most likely this lens is missing rear elements.

I wrote to the seller as well, and no answer.

[alex from holland]

This lens is surely missing it's back element. I have had a lens similar to this one.
As votaly says, the whs is directy in fornt of the flange thread.

[Steven Tribe]

The "winning" bidder is likely German speaking (he watches German language listing). If feedback is not left within the next week or so, he may never be identified. Which would also probably mean that the deal has not gone through.

[Amedeus]

Kodak Portrait lens 305mm in Ilex #5 Universal for 615 (261384470444)

Wollensak Vitax #5, 16", f/3.8 for $1,125 (111266310260)

Wollensak Velostigmat 15.5", Series II in Studio Shutter #4 attached to a Century camera for $575 (261381495199)

Wollensak Verito 14 1/2" in non-working Studio Shutter for $529 (321305491361)

[Andrew Plume]

The "winning" bidder is likely German speaking (he watches German language listing). If feedback is not left within the next week or so, he may never be identified. Which would also probably mean that the deal has not gone through.

and yes too regarding this eBay listing, when I looked at it, albeit not spending too much time, it didn't look "the full ticket"

regards

andrew

[Steven Tribe]

Almost forgot.

T,T & H complete casket including the RV(P) 5.4". Made for 1/4 plate, I think, but the RV(P) combination will cover 4x5.

350985463554 - £293. Over 40 bids.

[goamules]

Nice casket set, I think Mark got one last year too.
Though I know what you're saying (they're probably the same except for the speed) but for the record there is no RV(P) lens. Their lenses are either marked Rapid View (RV) or Rapid View Portrait (RVP), with correspondingly different speeds.

[Steven Tribe]

Agreed. What I implied was that the iris on these casket sets allows a faster F compared with the standard RV from Taylor.

[Amedeus]

Dallmeyer 3B with flange for #2,300 (BIN, 221365858317)

Wollensak Velostigmat 12" Series II, Soft Focus on Kodak 2D lensboard for #325 (BIN, 151227653799)

[Geoffrey_5995]

Very large Wollensak Velostigmat Series II 19 1/2 inch f4.5 soft focus lens. BIN $950 / 221365635573. Don't recall seeing one this large. Don't see it listed in any Wollensak catalogs.

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Verito 8 3/4" on Graflex D board for $700 (BIN,261394822083)

[8x10 user]

16" Visual quality, $4550 (BIN 371005701005).

[Amedeus]

Very nice one ... and one more serial number for my list ;)


16" Visual quality, $4550 (BIN 371005701005).

[Steven Tribe]

The Dallmeyer 5D, which raised doubts here a couple of weeks ago, has been relisted.

Still no lister admission it is incomplete, but it starts at 1 Euro.

[Steven Tribe]

A couple of rare Frenchies to-night.

Both sold as "no name" after Darlot was closed and the buyer didn't want to continue the two in their offerings.

De Pulligny anachromatigue adjustable landscape lens. Chipped front meniscus - both irises OK. 360856045909. 307 euros.


Puyo Objectif d'Artiste anachromatique complete Trousse set ( the large size) devided into 2 listings.

121271994957 had the barrels and the two standard lenses and a full set of WHS. 307 euros (again!).
121271996092 had the 2 extra lenses and the brass lens hood. 143.99 euros. The odd figure is due to my odd bid of 142.99!

The Trousse set looked good.

The winner must have been nervous about getting both - which I think he did.
This is the bayonet type. I think it is exactly the same production batch as the one I have.

[8x10 user]

I saw all of those lenses but did not recognize what they were!

[Steven Tribe]

The first two listings were quite easy:

- double iris at these positions mean anachromatique landscape.
- the bulge in the internal barrel is a characteristice of the trousse set and the engravings in and around the WHS stop are typical of late O d'A.

The third one is trickey, but I have posted a photo here of what the "T" on the extra lenses looks like.
Many O d'A had the bayonet feature instead of threads.

Of course, it is a guess that listings 2 & 3 are part and parcel of the same Casket set. But what are the chances of them not making up a a complete set when the same seller has both listed on the same day?

[Mark Sawyer]

"*Very Rare* Dallmeyer Bergheim No. 1 Soft Focus Brass Petzval Lens for 8x10?" sold for $1250. (ebay 301073408354)

The small size, won't cover 8x10 and isn't a Petzval, but still a historically important soft focus lens. Missing the front aperture mechanism, but otherwise looked to be in pretty good shape.

[Steven Tribe]

I have always imagined that the Bergheim is basically no different from De Pulligny (+ & - simple meniscus) or the alternative Puyo combination in the Casket set ( also + & - meniscus)? I suppose experiments in telelenses got these started simultaneously in England and France?
They must have been cheap to make, too.

[8x10 user]

It should be easy for the buyer of the Bergheim to adapt a regular lens hood into an water house stops hood. Does anyway know how far in front of the lens the aperture should be? Is the aperture even required on the Bergheim? It sounds like the lens produced an image with it on the ground glass with out it.

I've always wanted to see an example of the bergheim and la'adjustable landscape lens at infinity. I find it interesting that they achieve softness at smaller apertures. When I think about a soft focus lens I think about two lenses they part that makes up the inner core and the part after the "breaking point" where aberrations are introduced to cause the light to go out of focus and create that glow. Many of the soft focus portrait lenses the lens sharpens up at F/8, a common "breaking point" so the lens lens might be an F4.5 but the DOF of the inner core will be roughly an ~F/8. F/8 is of course great for portraiture and other close ups (still lifes), at this aperture it gives good depth but also good separation. Also at 1:1 the F/8 becomes an F/16 so it is wide enough for diffraction to not be an issue.

On the other hand the Bergheim is an F/9 that is said to sharpen at F/27 (1/3 aperture diameter), so I would think it would make for a great lens to shoot things that are further away like landscapes, city-scapes, groups of people, ect. It has more then 3 stops of softness instead of 2 so the focus effect should be pretty strong at some points of the long band of focus. Close up I would not expect to much sharpness in the inner core as diffraction will come into play. Soft focus lenses are very limited in this regard it is best to use the aperture to control softness so the DOF properties need to be built into the lens design.

I find it interesting that the No 1 size is an F/9 at 20"s but this one goes to 16" where it would be an F7.2, the other sizes of Bergheim are an F/8 or F/9 at the shortest focal length but are closer to an F/15 at full extension. At 16" the inner core on the no 1 size should be roughly at F/22. I could see how it could fill a space in ones smaller format kit. I think it would be fun to play with a no 1 on a 4x5 or 5x7 camera and because of its tele-photo design it will only require 8"-15" of extension. Longer focal length soft focus lenses tend to be extremely expensive, large, and heavy.

Again I wish there were more examples from la'adjustable and the Bergheim.

[jp]

I have never observed diffraction to be a concern for soft focus, (pinholes aside).

[8x10 user]

It depends on what aperture the inner core separates from the cone of focus. I do suspect that something that sharpens at F/8 will be handle close ups better then something that sharpens at F/22.

[Mark Sawyer]

It should be easy for the buyer of the Bergheim to adapt a regular lens hood into an water house stops hood. Does anyway know how far in front of the lens the aperture should be? Is the aperture even required on the Bergheim? It sounds like the lens produced an image with it on the ground glass with out it...

Any positive lens will throw an image on the ground glass without the aperture control device. But without the aperture control device, (iris, Waterhouse stops, an Imagon disk...) you have no aperture control. I'd offer that this control is even more important on a soft lens than a conventional lens. On a conventional lens, the aperture controls the depth of field. On a soft lens, the aperture controls the depth of field and the amount of softness.

Yes, something can be scabbed onto the front easily enough. But on a lens that is valued primarily as a historic collector's item, it's pretty significant that a main component of the lens is missing.

[Tim Meisburger]

Well, my Dallmeyer 3b has now unsold. Apparently the rear group is not original to the lens. The buyer compared it to another 3b and found significant differences and asked for a refund. I'm fine with that, but have asked he post the pictures and description in a lens thread so we can learn from it. I never saw any signs on the lens that it had been changed, but was never able to get the soft focus unstuck, and based on some of the lenses I've seen floating around southeast Asia, I would not be surprised.

[dap]

A big ol' cooke knuckler sold recently in the forum classifieds (18" f5.6 VIa). It looked to be in pretty amazing shape - it was listed for $2800

[Steven Tribe]

Tim, to my great surprise, I found differences in the internal rear cell thread on 2 3B's that were only 10,000 apart. This is when I bought an incomplete 3B from MW to make-up 2 other 3B's here and in Ireland. This exercise was a success (using the achromat and brass sleeve) - but the "non-standard" inner rear cell remains.

I assumed there had been a design change, but it could have been a loan from a 3A?

[Tim Meisburger]

I really don't know. Pierre has said he will post the photos of the two different lenses when he gets the chance, so you may be able to see whats going on from that. I didn't ever see anything that looked mismatched, and from Pierre's message they seemed to think that the little screw that keeps the element from turning was not supposed to be there, but I remember Eddie mentioning it when he was explaining how to take one apart. In any case, I've already sent the refund, so when I get the lens back I can try to get to the bottom of it. I'm just sorry that it didn't work out for Pierre.

[pierre506]

110884
110885
110887
110888
Barrel is a little bit of short than the normal one.
Thank for Tim's permission~

[pierre506]

110889
110890
110891
110892

The last one (my friend's black aluminum 3B） has the 4 positions of soft focus symbol. They could be found on other 3A, 3B, 3D.
However the brass one does not have. And the brass rear glass' size is smaller than the normal one's.

[goamules]

Well, my Dallmeyer 3b has now unsold. Apparently the rear group is not original to the lens. The buyer compared it to another 3b and found significant differences and asked for a refund. I'm fine with that, but have asked he post the pictures and description in a lens thread so we can learn from it. I never saw any signs on the lens that it had been changed, but was never able to get the soft focus unstuck, and based on some of the lenses I've seen floating around southeast Asia, I would not be surprised.

What?! Oh no. As of yet, I have not heard of anyone replacing glass in lenses, and the robust, precise Dallmeyer would not make a good candidate. I'd have to see it to believe it. Another case of how photography equipment buyers have a very critical eye when they buy 100 year old stuff. In 35mm, you'd be amazed at the claims asking for refunds such as "shutter speeds not accurate....touch of oil on aperture blades....scratch on base plate....faded paint on lens filter ring...." etc. Antique clock and pocketwatch buyers do not do this. Clocks are sold on ebay with the claim "is ticking, but I cannot guarantee if it works or keeps time." I guess it's just an evolving, unreasonable expectation. But if it's truly the wrong glass, I'd be asking for a return too. Just have no clue how he can suspect that.

[pierre506]

110894
110895
110896
110897

Rear and Side view of the barrel.
The first picture shows a tiny screw to fix the mid glass of the rear group.

[pierre506]

110899
110900
110900
110901
This is the rearest glass I can screw down.
I guess that I should loose the tiny screw to let the mid glass out.
It's really different from other Petzval lenses my friends and I met.

[pierre506]

What?! Oh no. As of yet, I have not heard of anyone replacing glass in lenses, and the robust, precise Dallmeyer would not make a good candidate. I'd have to see it to believe it. Another case of how photography equipment buyers have a very critical eye when they buy 100 year old stuff. In 35mm, you'd be amazed at the claims asking for refunds such as "shutter speeds not accurate....touch of oil on aperture blades....scratch on base plate....faded paint on lens filter ring...." etc. Antique clock and pocketwatch buyers do not do this. Clocks are sold on ebay with the claim "is ticking, but I cannot guarantee if it works or keeps time." I guess it's just an evolving, unreasonable expectation. But if it's truly the wrong glass, I'd be asking for a return too. Just have no clue how he can suspect that.


Thank you, dear Garrett,
My friends (one ownes a Brass Dallmeyer 3B, one owns the black aluminum 3B) and I also had been amazed by Tim's 3B because it had been modified carefully according our on-the-spot visual comparison. They brought their 3Bs to meet me.

Our conclusion is that Tim's 3B is not original one:
1, the barrel's rear screw thread had been machined shorter to fit the differend rear group. So, the barrel is shorter.
2, the rear glass diameter is smaller than the normal one's, at least the other two 3Bs.
3, the soft focus is stuck as Tim's description (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?109621-Dallmeyer-3B ) because the rear group does not have the mechanism and it had been fixed by the tiny screw.
4, the rear group does not have the 4 postions to show the soft focus degree. It's the significant symbol.

Tim and I, welcome any comment~

[Steven Tribe]

I'll look through the photos in detail tonight!

But my first reaction is that the difference is just the design difference between the rear adjustment system with notches and the "turn the whole barrel in front" system which was fairly standard in the later decades.

[Tim Meisburger]

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. If its not relevant maybe the the moderators could move these posts to a separate thread.

[goamules]

Well, I stand corrected! Thanks for showing these pictures Pierre, you know your lenses and had examples for comparison. So now we know, it does happen.

[pierre506]

I'll look through the photos in detail tonight!

But my first reaction is that the difference is just the design difference between the rear adjustment system with notches and the "turn the whole barrel in front" system which was fairly standard in the later decades.

dear Steven,
I am not sure about the exact meaning of ' turn the whole barrel in front'. However, we tried to turn the front and rear group, but only the rearest glass was down. Or, the whole barrel was screwed down from the flange.
I believe Tim's 3B is later version, same as the black aluminum 3B, because they are not 'water house' style.

[Tim Meisburger]

As I recall, the rear screw locks the barrel to the rear group. To unscrew the barrel you have to remove the screw. The front screw holds the diaphram in place. Interesting that the soft focus mechanism is missing. I didn't have any lens to compare it to, but thought that turning the barrel would move one of the elements in the rear group, and that these were joined by a threaded connection that was seized.

On the other 3b do you adjust the soft focus by backing out an element on the rear of the lens?

[pierre506]

Well, my Dallmeyer 3b has now unsold.

dear Tim,
Don't worry about it. I did want to own your 3B.
I also hope my judgement was wrong. I will pay you again if there is conclusive proof that your 3B is original.
There are two 8x10 ambrotype plates made by Tim's 3B.
Sorry, they took by cellphone.
110914
110913

[Tim Meisburger]

Its okay. I surely don't want you to be unhappy with the lens, and I have already sent you the refund. But I do want to try to figure out what the difference is, if we can.

Best, Tim

[Steven Tribe]

Both my working 3B's (both versions) are loaned out at present.

But the old design works by the ultimate part of the rear cells, containing the last lens, screws out from other rear lens to increase softness. Positions at 45 degrees, 90 degrees etc. are indicated by the positions opposite a small indicator - which eventually gets a little bent. There is, however, no limit on the softness which can be acheived. The mount is the standard Sleeve with flange attachment and barrel.

The more modern version is made up of a complex last lens mount which includes the flange thread. The somewhat shorter barrel (it doesn't "overlap the final lens" has the achromat at one end and the first of the rear lenses at the back. This single rear lens mount in the barrel has a thread which screws into the first mentioned last lens mount which is already attached to the flange/lens board. Screwed right in - it is in the Sharp position and it screws out to attain the soft effect wanted.
I believe there are different versions of this, some where this last thread is anticlockwise. There must have been complaints because when attempting to increase softness by screwing the barrel assembly out, the whole lens might turn around on the flange. I seem to remember mine has a grub screw to ensure this doesn't happen!


The direction of the arrow "turn for soft" indicates, of course, whether it has a clockwise or anti-clockwise thread for removal! And Tim/Pierre's must be screwed clockwise for softness and for dismantling.

A last check of the many photo:
-the round headed brass screw near the end of the barrel is an addition by someone who wanted the 3B as a sharp lens. This locking screw should just be removed and thrown away.

[alex from holland]

I had a 3d were the back glass was smaller than the front glass. It was an aluminium version. Was surprised about that also but to me it look original.

[Tim Meisburger]

When I get it back I'll take it apart and check it out. So far I have bought one petzval that was missing a lens element (believe it or not I bought it without checking to see if it formed an image) and bought one lens that had an obvious replaced element (a glass from a magnifying glass). I think a fair number of grandpa's old lenses sat around until some kid dug em out of the closet, and pulled them apart to get a magnifying glass they could use to start fires and burn ants. Plus there is that whole weird thing of counterfeit lenses, so nothing really surprises me anymore.

[pierre506]

A last check of the many photo:
-the round headed brass screw near the end of the barrel is an addition by someone who wanted the 3B as a sharp lens. This locking screw should just be removed and thrown away.

dear Steven,
I strongly suspect this point because it's easier to let the lens keep sharp or soft position (don't turn it and let it be).
There was not any excuse to (ruin )dig a hole to put a screw to fix the sharp position whatever a professional or amateur photographer wanted to use it well.

[shangheye]

Believe me folks I know Pierre and the friends he mentions and if they say isn't a standard 3B...it most definitely is not! Very wired to spend that effort on such a modification unless someone found one without a rear group and changed it but that isn't exactly easy work...

[Tim Meisburger]

Okay. No worries. I believe everyone, especially Pierre. At this point I think it best to stop discussing it in this thread, as it is devoted to sales information. When I get the lens back I'll open a separate thread to look at the modification.

I'd also like to apologise, as I would never intentionally misrepresent a lens.

Best, Tim

[pierre506]

Exact size and strange shape of the rearest glass.
110972
110973
110974

[pierre506]

110975
110976
110977
110978

Height of the barreal with and without the strange rear group~

[pierre506]

110979
Strange mid glass edge has teeth.
The teeth edge normally is at the rearest glass.
110980
comparison together~
The front is the rearest glass.
They all have the teeth edge.
110981
110982
The left is the rearest glass.
The right is the mid.



110981

[pierre506]

110983
Obvious teeth edge inside~
110984
This side towards the front.
110985
Interesting and strange rear group.
I guess it must come from other lens.
110986
The small hole let the tiny screw in to position the rear group.

[pierre506]

So, every one should know the result.
Pity, strange and interesting~

I will send the lens to Tim today.

[Tim Meisburger]

Thanks Pierre. Don't forget the flange!

Cheers, Tim

[Tim Meisburger]

Well, I have been reading over this, and I think I have it figured out. The view is that the rear screw was inserted to hold the rear element in the sharp position. In the older version of the lens you unscrew the rear element to introduce softness, but in the newer version you rotate the rear housing group causing the inner element to move closer or farther from the rear element, introducing or reducing softness. The internal threads are fine and precise, and in most examples seem to be seized, which I think is the case with mine. The rear screw is merely there to prevent one from accidentally unscrewing the barrel while turning it to adjust sharpness. I think the ones Pierre compared it to were the older versions where the mechanism to introduce softness is merely unscrewing the rear element (which in hindsight seems the superior method, since examples from the 19th century still work).

[Steven Tribe]

I have kept away from this here, as I was expecting it to re-emerge in another thread.

I have no doubt that this is a 3B, with all elements as it left Dallmeyers!
This one has a reverse thread for the soft adjustment - not something you can pick up from a box of spare parts!
The fact of the counter clockwise thread may be the cause of the current seizure.

[goamules]

Some of the "Turn for Soft" Dallmeyers had a locking tab in about that position too. My 3A did. It was a sliding bar that locked into a notch in the flare/fillet area, so it would not turn unless you released it.

[pierre506]

Some of the "Turn for Soft" Dallmeyers had a locking tab in about that position too. My 3A did. It was a sliding bar that locked into a notch in the flare/fillet area, so it would not turn unless you released it.


So, does your 3A rear glass have the normal 4 indicators for soft focus degree?

[goamules]

Pierre, good question but I'm afraid I've sold the lens, and don't remember if it had the notches in the rear. It seems to me the "Barrel Turn" ones would not need them. But - I hate to say yes or no without finding a picture. I'm still looking in my computer for a rear shot, but here are the tabs. Note one for holding the barrel focus, and another to hold the lens on the flange.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6127/5964189489_62c7016816_b.jpg

[Emil Schildt]

111057
Pierre, good question but I'm afraid I've sold the lens, and don't remember if it had the notches in the rear. It seems to me the "Barrel Turn" ones would not need them. But - I hate to say yes or no without finding a picture. I'm still looking in my computer for a rear shot, but here are the tabs. Note one for holding the barrel focus, and another to hold the lens on the flange.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6127/5964189489_62c7016816_b.jpg

I bet it doesn't.... (mine hasn't) BUT you can actually see notch nr 3 onth every right of your image! they are placed on that rigde where the lock also is located... (see the little image)

[Steven Tribe]

Garrett's image shows a front version that has a standard thread for the shorter barrel which unscrews for softness. The Tim/pierre version has the arrow pointing the other way (clockwise) - thus indicating a reverse thread.


I am certain that has been discussed/illustrated in a previous thread (pun not intended!).

[pierre506]

111057

I bet it doesn't.... (mine hasn't) BUT you can actually see notch nr 3 onth every right of your image! they are placed on that rigde where the lock also is located... (see the little image)

There is no any notches there according to the pices.
111079111080

I gradually agree with Steven.
But some questions:
1, does the photographer need to bring a small screwdriver? Dallmeyer engineer made the design. I believe there must be very easy solution.
2, the photographer can decide the soft focus degree more freely without the notches， just like automatic transmission compares manual one?
3, my friend's Black aluminum 3B is also a very late version.

[pierre506]

4,the size of the flint and crown glasses is obviously smaller than normal.

[analoguey]

Wouldnt it be possible to move the specific Lens thread out? It would be more topical and easier to find for anyone looking for information on the web?
/suggestion.

Right now, easier for me here - as I have one less thread to subscribe!

[Amedeus]

Dallmeyer 3A for $4,275 (BIN, 161184241214)

Cooke 13" Series VI Soft Focus for $669 (201038538928)

Wollensak 14 1/2" Verito for $493 (321323181552)

Cooke 13" Series VI Soft Focus for $593 (321316944505)

Kodak 305mm Portrait Lens for $615 (360863347842)

[cyberjunkie]

Capi Amateur Plasticca 15cm f/4.5 - CELLS ONLY
Ebay # 151225264609
100 USD

I know nothing about "Amateur Plasticca", but i know that the other Plasticca, Kronar, etc. have just one cell...
From the picture the back cell looks a bit different, like it's coming from a different objective.
The parcel should be at my mother's address by now, so when i will get there, i will inspect the cells personally, and see how they look "de visu".
I have seen on Ebay a small Plasticca adapted for cine use. It was not long ago, as far as i remember it had an even shorter focal, but was not branded "Amateur".
I bought the lens with the hope that i would get enough coverage for the 4x5" format. If not, given the price i payed, i would be content to use it on bellows with my Pentax 6x7.
I was amazed that just after the purchase, i received an offer for 500 USD!
It's plenty of money for a lens cell(s). I didn't follow soft focus lens sales during 2013, but i feel that prices haven't gone down... :-)
111125
111126

UPDATE:
Sorry, searching for "Amateur Plasticca" (thus removing "Capi" from the search string)
brought this picture:

Oskar Zwierzina Dresden Amateur Plasticca 1:4,5 F=150mm
111127
Definitely there are TWO cells!
Now i am very curious... why on earth the only two examples i have found have loose cells, without barrel?

IIRC, the Capi Plasticcas were made in Holland, in the city of Nijmegen i think. Though i was totally unaware of the "Amateur" version, with two cells!
I am sure somebody knows much, much more about these lenses... i'm holding my breath and waiting :-)

[Steven Tribe]

This is certainly new to me - but I can't say I am surprised! The engraving style is identical with the other German and Lowlands versions.
It was not uncommon for makers to list extra smaller sizes for, for instance 9x12, as "amateur" versions. Voigtländer made a minor and major "Amateur Euryskop".

I doubt these are two lenses. Probably a yellow filter (which could be replaced by one in better condition!) and the real lens.
The plasticca used to be a budget item, remember!

[jp]

Bausch & Lomb Sigmar 16" soft-ish lens went for $1499. ebay 271405503145
that's some serious money and a serious lens. (packard shutter included)

[Jim Galli]

111057

I bet it doesn't.... (mine hasn't) BUT you can actually see notch nr 3 onth every right of your image! they are placed on that rigde where the lock also is located... (see the little image)

I have a 3A identical to Gandolfi with the notch and latch assy.

[Jim Galli]

Bausch & Lomb Sigmar 16" soft-ish lens went for $1499. ebay 271405503145
that's some serious money and a serious lens. (packard shutter included)

If you were next in line bidder I have identical I would sell for that money. Never made an image with it. Bad Jim

[jp]

If you were next in line bidder I have identical I would sell for that money. Never made an image with it. Bad Jim

I've got one already and it's a wonderful smooth lens. It's what I use once in a while with my 4x5 speed graphic shutter in front of my 8x10 camera.

[Jim Galli]

I've got one already and it's a wonderful smooth lens. It's what I use once in a while with my 4x5 speed graphic shutter in front of my 8x10 camera.

Need to schedule some time for that beastie. Feel bad that I've not used it. I DO use my lenses, mostly.

[goamules]

I've not looked it up recently, but do you recall if the Sigmar is a triplet? I'm wondering if it's the same as a F3.5 Wollensak Varium I have. I happen to have it on a Century camera from this weekend, was about to shoot it. It seems pretty soft, wide open.

[Jim Galli]

I've not looked it up recently, but do you recall if the Sigmar is a triplet? I'm wondering if it's the same as a F3.5 Varium I have. I happen to have it on a Century camera from this weekend, was about to shoot it. It seems pretty soft, wide open.

Yes, identical. Ford and Chevy.

[Steven Tribe]

This may ruffle a few feathers! So perhaps a technical discussion is best in a separate thread?


Reinhold Schable: 500mm Plain meniscus F8 - complete with flange etc., unused $80. Sold in FS here.
Reinhold Schable: 285mm Plain meniscus F4.9 - complete with flange etc., unused $65. Sold here in FS.

Logic?:

A simple meniscus lens with lots of chromatic abberation. Sounds like the Plasticca to me.
And I have seen recent images posted.

[Jim Galli]

This may ruffle a few feathers! So perhaps a technical discussion is best in a separate thread?


Reinhold Schable: 500mm Plain meniscus F8 - complete with flange etc., unused $80. Sold in FS here.
Reinhold Schable: 285mm Plain meniscus F4.9 - complete with flange etc., unused $65. Sold here in FS.

Logic?:

A simple meniscus lens with lots of chromatic abberation. Sounds like the Plasticca to me.
And I have seen recent images posted.

If you're going to include his, you'd better include my little creations (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?67483-Antique-4X5-Achromatic-Meniscus-Lens-in-modern-Copal-Shutter!&highlight=antique+meniscus) in the Copal 0 shutter also. But I don't think that's the intent of the thread.

[Steven Tribe]

[QUOTE]But I don't think that's the intent of the thread. [QUOTE]

No it was implicitly for "historical" soft lens designs - closely linked to Dan's summaries.
But I have difficulty in totally excluding other designs with controlled aberration, like your fast achromats and Reinhold' plain meniscus designs - which are both echos of a number of vintage products.

[8x10 user]

Speaking of newer soft focus creations.... Does anyone know where I could borrow a P&S series III from?

I found an optical engineer who is interested in recreating them!

[Jim Galli]

Perhaps start another thread. No one should have any interest in the sales prices of these type lenses though. The whole idea is to get folks shooting in a soft focus genre without having to spend crazy money.


[QUOTE]But I don't think that's the intent of the thread. [QUOTE]

No it was implicitly for "historical" soft lens designs - closely linked to Dan's summaries.
But I have difficulty in totally excluding other designs with controlled aberration, like your fast achromats and Reinhold' plain meniscus designs - which are both echos of a number of vintage products.

[Jim Graves]

I bought the two Schable lenses referenced ... one for my WP and 8x10 and one for a shared 11x14.

Not sure what your question is Steven ... but I assume it is whether those sales belong in this thread. And, I don't see why not.

I have Petzvals, Veritos, some home-made double convex lenses, a Lancaster Landscape lens and these two now ... and I would consider them all as "soft focus" lenses. But, I also think this thread was mainly started to keep track of cost trends on the more exotic older lenses ... . I don't think it's a big issue.

[Amedeus]

There are quite a few soft focus lenses we don't keep track off ... Fuji SF and Imagon i.e.
But, I also think this thread was mainly started to keep track of cost trends on the more exotic older lenses ... . I don't think it's a big issue.

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Verito 7" in Studio Shutter for $400 (BIN, 400670786415)

Cooke Portrait 13", f/5.6 Series VI, knuckler for #2,501 (321329206842)

Wollensak Veritar, 14", f/6 on lensboard for $565 (161228475624)

[lucaas]

Nice looking Cooke Portrait Series IIb 15"/f4.5 with knuckles for $2500, 121284724650

[Amedeus]

Taylor & Hobson Cooke Series II f/4.5 10.4 inch Soft Focus Lens wit missing aperture and no flange for $635 (141200668277)

[Amedeus]

KODAK PORTRAIT LENS 305mm (12 in.) f/4.8 in No.5 Universal for $900 (BOBIN, 171213945147)

Bausch & Lomb - Zeiss Portrait Unar Lens No 9 1b 14 3/4" f/4.5 on 6x6 lens board for $830 (201040356371)

[evan clarke]

I bought a little 6 1/2" Ilex portrait for $157. 301102758127 Looked hideous in the pictures but the glass is perfect and the iris adjusts snoothly..

[Emil Schildt]

I bought a little 6 1/2" Ilex portrait for $157. 301102758127 Looked hideous in the pictures but the glass is perfect and the iris adjusts snoothly..

Gotta love that word: Snoothly.... :)

I have the bigger one - one of my favorites!

[evan clarke]

Snoothly is one bubble better than smoothly, it almost turns itself..:rolleyes:

[Amedeus]

Nice looking Cooke 15" f/4.5 Series IIb on lensboard for $3,291 (221384777666)

[Amedeus]

Nice looking Cooke Portrait Anastigmat, 18", f/5.6 Series VI on lensboard for $2,276 (131126666138)

[Amedeus]

Few more Cooke lenses ...

Good looking COOKE 15inch f4.5 (380mm)Series IIB Soft Focus Portrait with flange for $2,500 (BOBIN, 351015979526)

COOKE Series VI 13-inch f/5.6 in need of some TLC for $355 (221388737869)

[Amedeus]

Pretty uncommon lens today ...

Dallmeyer Banfield Portrait Astigmat, 22" (seller reports 36"), flange included for $3,350 (261417104616)

[pierre506]

Pretty uncommon lens today ...

Dallmeyer Banfield Portrait Astigmat, 22" (seller reports 36"), flange included for $3,350 (261417104616)

interesting structure~

[Steven Tribe]

It is built like the Port-land and I think I can see slight edge yellowing - indicating an achromat. But could be a Plasticca type (simple meniscus) as the mount looks very thin for an achromat? The "easiest" way would be check the original price levels in appropriate catalogues.

[CCHarrison]

Dallmeyer-Banfield is considered, according to various texts, to be a modified telephoto. From the BJP

<<<<Dallmeyer Variable Focus Telephoto lens..... Incidentally the Dallmeyer-Banfield portrait lens was a modification of this lens>>>


Attached is an article from 1926

Dan




112139112138

[Amedeus]

After reading the article the lens most likely is a thin meniscus ... requires to rack the focus back or use filter ...

[Steven Tribe]

That is my opinion too.

A thin meniscus (plasticca) in a Port-land type mount.
The basic marking and date of appearance (mid 20's) suggests a popular/budget product.

[Steven Tribe]

Those with experience taking a Plasticca apart say it IS a cemented achromat - sorry, I was misled by the total lack of separation on mine and the very thin lens construction. Thanks.

[Amedeus]

Dallmeyer 4D attached to a Century 4A camera with stand ... $1,225 (151250460855)

[Amedeus]

Voigtlander Universal Heliar, 30cm, f/4.5 for $1,908 (BOBIN, 370985543125)

[pierre506]

Dallmeyer 4B ( 141218566645) without rear group went to Shanghai.
$1569

[jumanji]

What would he do with a lens without rear cell? He's already got another 4B without front cell? :confused:

Dallmeyer 4B ( 141218566645) without rear group went to Shanghai.
$1569

[Amedeus]

What would he do with a lens without rear cell? He's already got another 4B without front cell? :confused:

You can put the front cell in the rear and use this as a longer focal "landscape" lens ...

I found a Hermagis Petzval without rear lenses for very low money and I'm using this in the above way ...

Ymmv