Some Soft Focus Lens Sales Information

[Amedeus]

A couple of Milwaukee Photo Works "portrait lenses" with rear element diffuse-focus were sold recently

16" f4 for $599.99 which looks like the 3A version based on the catalog page shown in the auction (120968277349)

15." f5 for $599 which looks like the C.T.S version based on the catalog page shown in the auction (360480515385)

I understand Milwaukee Photo Materials Co to be a reseller from lenses in the days. Anyone any idea who the original manufacturer cold have been ?

[Jim Galli]

A couple of Milwaukee Photo Works "portrait lenses" with rear element diffuse-focus were sold recently

16" f4 for $599.99 which looks like the 3A version based on the catalog page shown in the auction (120968277349)

15." f5 for $599 which looks like the C.T.S version based on the catalog page shown in the auction (360480515385)

I understand Milwaukee Photo Materials Co to be a reseller from lenses in the days. Anyone any idea who the original manufacturer cold have been ?

Those were both Bausch & Lomb products. Excellent petzvals both, but the soft feature is more of a sales gimmick than usable soft focus lens.

[Mark Sawyer]

Graf variable soft focus lens 7 1/2" - 8 1/2" F/3.8 (sounded nice, but w/ "cleaning marks" on the glass. w/ flange) $556 + $20 s&h (#320964915953)

Kodak Portrait Lens 405mm 16" f/4.5 Lens (sounded excellent) $888.88, free s/h (#360480391299)

Rodenstock Imagon Lens & Accessory Kit 420mm (sounded excellent, missing green filter) $312, "shipping varies" (#130746497747) (That was a bargain!)

18 inch Wollensak Verito w/ flange & Studio Shutter, sounded fairly nice $788 + $25 s&h (230836189687)

Cookie Portrait Lens, 12.75in f4.5 Series IIb, sounded fairly nice, $1262.74 + $71.12 shipping to US (was in UK) (#360479104781)

[jp]

Kodak Portrait Lens 405mm 16" f/4.5 Lens (sounded excellent) $888.88, free s/h (#360480391299)


I wonder who told that person the extra piece of glass didn't go with the lens! The seller clearly did no homework and should have kept it as a "lens that I can't get back together" :-)

[evan clarke]

Yeah, I think there is a bad surprise there..

[Mark Sawyer]

A couple of days before the auction ended, the seller posted: "UPDATE: it seems this lens is at it should be, and the free glass shown in the photos has nothing to do with this lens. there is one convex rear lens facing the film/interior of camera, then there is a flat glass inside the lens very close to the convex glass. no glass in the front."

There should only be a cemented doublet at the rear. That could be what it has, but it's hard to say. When reviewing prices in this thread, always bear in mind that ebay purchases are risky at best.

Hmmm, maybe a couple of my recent ebay purchases would qualify as "soft focus lenses"... :rolleyes:

[Amedeus]

Those were both Bausch & Lomb products. Excellent petzvals both, but the soft feature is more of a sales gimmick than usable soft focus lens.

Thanks Jim, much appreciated ...

As for the Kodak Portrait lens, the helpful pointer from a forum member prompted the update and drove the price up significantly after the lens was called out in another thread on this forum ...

[William Whitaker]

Verito 22 1/4" extension cell $500 Buy-It-Now on Ebay 8/25/2012.

[evan clarke]

A couple of days before the auction ended, the seller posted: "UPDATE: it seems this lens is at it should be, and the free glass shown in the photos has nothing to do with this lens. there is one convex rear lens facing the film/interior of camera, then there is a flat glass inside the lens very close to the convex glass. no glass in the front."

There should only be a cemented doublet at the rear. That could be what it has, but it's hard to say. When reviewing prices in this thread, always bear in mind that ebay purchases are risky at best.

Hmmm, maybe a couple of my recent ebay purchases would qualify as "soft focus lenses"... :rolleyes:


Well diffused...EC

[Amedeus]

Som Berthiot Eidoscope #3 4.5/275 for $1200 (261002402697)

Gundlach-Manhattan Hyperion Diffusion F4 18 inch w No. 5 Wollensak Rochester Studio Shutter for $2000 (200800266390) ... front and rear-element re-cemented by Focal Point but sounds like the shutter seems to need some work

Gundlach-Hyperion 18 inch F4 Hyperion Diffusion lens in Deardorff lensboard for $1950 (200762896913) ... nice sounding, no shutter but comes with flange and lens board.

Wollensak 14 inch camera lens 356 m-m f/6 Veritar in Alphax shutter for $676.66 (251130052745)

[Amedeus]

Kodak Portrait Lens 405mm 16" f/4.5 Lens (sounded excellent) $888.88, free s/h (#360480391299)

18 inch Wollensak Verito w/ flange & Studio Shutter, sounded fairly nice $788 + $25 s&h (230836189687)


This 18" Wollensak Verito deal fell through and was sold again today for $750 (230840834414)

The Kodak lens Mark mentions above is in perfect condition, no scratches, no cleaning marks, no smudges, both lens caps. The extra piece of flat glass the seller mentioned in the update was no more than a color correction gel wedged in the lens. Came with an "extra" 4" diameter, 9" focus lens :)

[Mark Sawyer]

The Kodak lens Mark mentions above is in perfect condition, no scratches, no cleaning marks, no smudges, both lens caps. The extra piece of flat glass the seller mentioned in the update was no more than a color correction gel wedged in the lens. Came with an "extra" 4" diameter, 9" focus lens :)

Glad it worked out for you! Hope you mount and try that 9-inch f/2.25 lens too.

I had daydreams of picking up this 15-inch f/3.5 Cooke Portrait Lens for around $1500, but not to be. :( $2822 + $51.10 s&h. (#150884278158) The Cooke Portrait Lenses are things of beauty to look at and to use.

[Steven Tribe]

I am glad that I don't have to mount this 8x10" Portric - it must be well over 5 kilos.
It is also described as only slightly soft. Perhaps this is why Voigtländer didn't make a Universal version of their F3.5 Heliar?

[evan clarke]

Ha, you guys missed my 300mm f4 Plasticca. Two guys were trying to bid on the auction, $.25 at a time and I snagged it for $400 BIN..

[Amedeus]

Glad it worked out for you! Hope you mount and try that 9-inch f/2.25 lens too.

I had daydreams of picking up this 15-inch f/3.5 Cooke Portrait Lens for around $1500, but not to be. :( $2822 + $51.10 s&h. (#150884278158) The Cooke Portrait Lenses are things of beauty to look at and to use.

I plan on mounting that 9" f2.25 lens with a 4" iris I have lying around in a tube and see what I get. I have few 95-100 diameter lenses (meniscus and plano convex) that are in need of mounting ;-)

I was looking at that Cooke Portrait Lens also and was a few hundred short ... never thought it would go as high as what I picked the P&S VQ 2b up for ... but yes, it is a pretty unique lens in specs, size and built quality.

[Steven Tribe]

Ewan - how did you manage to keep quiet about this for 10 days!

He listed it perfectly too - just made a "slight" pricing/valuation error!

[Amedeus]

Nice looking Wollensak Verito diffused focus 7 1/4" in a Betax 4 shutter for $736.50 (330783789469)

From the same source a Wollensak 14" f6 Veritar in Alphax shutter for $743 (320970270813)

Kodak Portrait Lens 305mm F4.8 in Ilex #5 Universal shutter for $635 (290763534006)

[evan clarke]

Ewan - how did you manage to keep quiet about this for 10 days!

He listed it perfectly too - just made a "slight" pricing/valuation error!

IDK, I was excited to get it, I have been scouring the web for a year, several times a day. I have the lens in hand and mounted now but it has been windy here all week so haven't made my first exposure yet..

[evan clarke]

I am looking for a 500mm Plasticca and/or a 16" or 20" Darlot single view (landscape meniscus). It seems these things are even harder to find when you want to cover 11x14!!..Evan Clarke

[eddie]

I am looking for a 500mm Plasticca and/or a 16" or 20" Darlot single view (landscape meniscus). It seems these things are even harder to find when you want to cover 11x14!!..Evan Clarke

i got a 450mm plasticca....not sure if i wanna sell it though......but money talks.....:)

[Steven Tribe]

Evan, you will look for ever!

I think you mean the 600mm Plasticca. I have pleasure of owning the only one I know of anywhere (but there must be others !).

[evan clarke]

i got a 450mm plasticca....not sure if i wanna sell it though......but money talks.....:)

So, Eddie, how much? Does it cover 11x14?

[Geoffrey_5995]

Hi Steven, I have two of these 600mm Oscars. One is a 600mm Plasticca that is marked Oscar Zwierzina and another 600mm that is marked differently but is definitely an Oscar Plasticca. This second one has the photo equipment maker's mark but can't remember the marking. The lenses are packed away so can't get to them at the moment but will unpack shortly and get you the info if you are interested. These are quite magnificent lenses and massive. I am planning on shooting them as soon as I get my set up set up. Geoff


Evan, you will look for ever!

I think you mean the 600mm Plasticca. I have pleasure of owning the only one I know of anywhere (but there must be others !).

[Steven Tribe]

Nice not to be alone!
Although out of place here, a unmarked Plasticca doesn't surprise me as Oscar Zwierzina shut down his Optische Anstalt in Dresden very suddenly in the 1930's. I believe Simon in Dresden continued for a bit. Mine is the F4, Serial number 20018.

There are 2 versions of the 18" (450mm). An F4. and an F3.5.
In the, not to be believed, cameraeccentric US guide, both are for full plate - and the 600mm is for 10x12".
The real coverage is much more and I can get lots of movements for the 600mm on 30x40cm, so Eddie is probably right on the ball!

[evan clarke]

It's crazy, I have seen Dan's literature which has them listed in English focal lengths but the lenses I have seen were marked in Metric..I just want to cover 11x14, A Kronar would be good, the Darlot would be good , a Plasticca would be good, all three would be great!!

I am crazy happy with the Darlot I have but it's only 9 1/2"..

[Amedeus]

Not sure if the Wollensak Varium is considered a "Soft Focus" lens by design but one 19" f4 version sold for $2000 (260991815307) and another one sold on this forum for $1449.

OIP Gand Labor 300mm f3.5 soft focus lens was sold on this forum for $875.

[Amedeus]

One more nice Kodak Portrait lens 305mm for $491 in working Ilex No5 shutter (120975083759)

[cyberjunkie]

One small Cooke Portrait sold for quite cheap, even considering it's just a 5x7" lens.
Ebay item # 140838253866
The vendor reported that it was engraved "Cooke Portrait", but there were no soft-focus adjustment markings.
Placed an half-assed bid, partly because i really didn't need it, partly because i don't know very much about early Cooke Portraits.
It went for little more, but i don't regret being a tight wallet... playing it safe didn't get me into any major disaster, and most of the time i get more than what i expect - helps a lot if you keep your expectations low, but being content after you've opened the parcel it's always a beautiful sensation :)
I am left with a question though.
Is that lens a soft focus? Are there Cooke Portrait lenses with no "soft" adjustment?
My best guess is that the front of the lens can be turned, and that the softness markings got erased after long years of use.

[Amedeus]

I believe this is a soft focus portrait lens being a series II, diffusion set by unscrewing the rear element ... great deal imho ... ;-)

[vitality]

I believe this is a soft focus portrait lens being a series II, diffusion set by unscrewing the rear element ... great deal imho ... ;-)
"Soft" is when rear element is completely screwed in? And for Sharp image you need to unscrew rear element? Or you unscrew for "softness"?

[Amedeus]

You unscrew for softness :)

[Steven Tribe]

I think (and thought!) it is an ordinary series II Cooke.
Engraving with "Portrait Cooke" appears on some of these (American Importer?).

[Amedeus]

79988

From Antique Cameras ... This is what the ad says for the Cooke Portrait Series II about being sharp with the option for diffusion ...

Copying Dan (CCHarrison) from another post:

From "Camera...." 1904:

"In our November issue we announced two new series of Cooke anastigmats and now give an illustration of the series IV lens. It works at a full aperture of F 5, 6, and is designed for the finest portraiture, for high-speed photography, and for difficult photographs in poor lights. The series II lenses working at F 4.5 are intended for still more trying conditions, and the makers guarantee sharp definition with the diaphragm wide open to the extreme corners of the plate specified for each lens.. The Cooke anastigmat has the advantage of an extremely simple construction. It consists of three thin glasses which obviously admit more light than does a combination of six, eight or nine. The difference in lighting is distinctly noticeable in
practice, and the makers invite fair comparison between Cooke lenses and others of the same focus and aperture. They have a delicate screw-adjustment for the final corrections of the lens. Sensitive and efficient, the adjustment always remains rigid, and besides increasing accuracy, it is immensely more durable than the old-fashioned balsam, with no disadvantage of any kind. With its help can be secured the most critical definition throughout the plate for which each lens is listed, and one uniform excellence is attained.

These advantages are fully developed in the new series, and result in objectives of greater rapidity and defining power, with a more uniform excellence than has hitherto been possible in lenses having these large apertures. The series II, excel for portraiture by the adjustability of the back glass. This enables the photographer to secure at will uniform sharp definition, or to diffuse any required softness evenly throughout the plate. The value of this device can best be appreciated by the professional photographer."

Similar verbiage can be found in the Lens Vademecum. I guess you'll have to wait till you open the box and examine the engraving :)

[Steven Tribe]

Engravings in lens brochures are notoriously unreliable and designs changed, but I don't think the rear of the listed item looks much like the figure above. The flange thread is very close to the end of the rear cell on the e**y series II. But the thread could still be unscrewed to ape the rear cell adjustment soft version.

[taulen]

280953835650
9.5" velostigmat with diffusion. 383.99
(included a 12" velostigmat series IV)

[eddie]

One small Cooke Portrait sold for quite cheap, even considering it's just a 5x7" lens.
Ebay item # 140838253866
The vendor reported that it was engraved "Cooke Portrait", but there were no soft-focus adjustment markings.
Placed an half-assed bid, partly because i really didn't need it, partly because i don't know very much about early Cooke Portraits.
It went for little more, but i don't regret being a tight wallet... playing it safe didn't get me into any major disaster, and most of the time i get more than what i expect - helps a lot if you keep your expectations low, but being content after you've opened the parcel it's always a beautiful sensation :)
I am left with a question though.
Is that lens a soft focus? Are there Cooke Portrait lenses with no "soft" adjustment?
My best guess is that the front of the lens can be turned, and that the softness markings got erased after long years of use.



Is that lens a soft focus?

NO.



Are there Cooke Portrait lenses with no "soft" adjustment?


YES.


I believe this is a soft focus portrait lens being a series II, diffusion set by unscrewing the rear element ... great deal imho ... ;-)

this is NOT a SF version. FWIW the front group(s) move on a cooke SF lens not the rear. not really a great deal for a pretty worn looking regular 5x7 cooke portrait lens with no flange.....

[eddie]

79988

From Antique Cameras ... This is what the ad says for the Cooke Portrait Series II about being sharp with the option for diffusion ...
The series II, excel for portraiture by the adjustability of the back glass.


Engravings in lens brochures are notoriously unreliable and designs changed,

i agree with steven regarding adverts.

while you can unscrew the rear of a cooke series II it only moves very very little....while the adjustment from a true cooke SF lens moves a great deal (and as i said before the front groups are the ones being moved..... FWIW). i just checked my SF cookes and my series II cookes. neither series II cooke portrait lens had any markings on the rear, etc etc.....just a regular portrait lens.....
80083800798008080081

[Amedeus]

Eddie,

I stand corrected.

I've looked at my two Cooke Series VI SF lenses and my regular Series II (non-portrait) and all have significant differences in design.

My 13" Cooke Portrait Lens f5.6 Series VI #107598 is of the no-knuckle variety with the front ring turning 90 degrees (6 gradations) which moves the positive magnification front element (only) 0.6mm away from the stationary negative middle element to go from "Sharp" to "Soft"
My 13" Cooke Portrait Anastigmat f5.6 Series VI #202102 is of the knuckle variety with the front ring turning 40 degrees (3 clicks) which moves the whole front group (front+middle element) 8mm towards the rear element to go from "Sharp" to "Soft"
The distance front element/middle element between these designs is significantly different. The older model has these elements within a few mm while the latter design has about 10-12mm in-between.

A regular Series II (non portrait) would have insufficient travel in the rear element to separate rear from the front group to achieve a "meaningful" SF effect.

The differences between those three lenses are intriguing enough for me to throw these designs in Zemax or Tracepro and see what happens at the imaging front with the displacements both SF portraits designs are capable off/designed for. This has to wait for a rainy day though ;-)

[massimodec]

@Amadeus, is your "no-knuckle" portrait series vi a good lens for the purpose ?

[Amedeus]

@massimodec: my early no-knuckle portrait lens is nice but I prefer the later model with the knuckle-duster as the displacement of the front group is larger and there's a wider range to work with.

Anachromatique 450mm/f5.6 d'atelier de Mr Le Ct Puyo Darlot Paris sold for $1600 BIN (120943930720) ... focal length possibly mislabeled
Taylor Hobson Cooke Portrait Soft Focus lens 13in f5.6 series VI sold for $649 (200815845117)
Kodak 405mm portrait lens sold for $850 BIN (261095701490)
Pinkham & Smith Series II 12" f:6 S.A. Doublet Soft Focus Lens sold for $4050 (300772150929)
Gundlach-Manhattan Hyperion Diffusion 15" 5x7 f4.0 15 Lens sold for $700 BIN (170908909469)
Dallmeyer 3D 12.5" f6 attached to a very nice (keeper) full plate camera sold for $800 (private sale)

[Steven Tribe]

"Anachromatique 450mm/f5.6 d'atelier de Mr Le Ct Puyo Darlot Paris sold for $1600 BIN (120943930720) ... focal length possibly mislabeled"

Not by that much - should be 400mm. It probably has the 2 standard lenses mounted, whilst the alternative 2 lenses are gone.

[Jim Galli]

Gundlach-Manhattan Hyperion Diffusion 15" 5x7 f4.0 15 Lens sold for $700 BIN (170908909469)


This was really a 9" lens. The seller didn't realize 15" was for the single element alone. These are convertibles.

[Amedeus]

This was really a 9" lens. The seller didn't realize 15" was for the single element alone. These are convertibles.

Just confirming ... 15" in the rear and 21" in the front ?

[Amedeus]

Wollensak 12" f4.5 Series II Velostigmat Soft Focus lens 8x10 in non-functioning Betax #5 shutter with good iris, no flange for $425 (271045405159)
Wollensak Verito 11.5" Diffused Focus lens in barrel no flange for $499 (190726544498)

[goamules]

Two Dallmeyers just went for the same price

170906691809 is a 3B that had a little front glass separation around the rim. $1236

300776805624 is a No. 4 Wide Angle Rectilinear (these have outstanding soft focus if you remove the wheelstop). $1200. I've never seen a No. 4, this lens would have huge coverage, 20x22 at least. I really wanted this one, but will have to be content with my No. 3.

[Amedeus]

Very nice looking Bausch & Lomb 15" EF Plastigmat Portrait Lens 8x10" Soft Focus for $1175 (320981357337) in barrel, no flange ... first time I see one offered ...

Although not a LF lens but only 35 mm I'll mention the 90mm f2.2 Leica Leitz Thambar soft focus lens that finished at $3050 just as a $$$ reference point ... (120984276493)

[cyberjunkie]

Very nice Eidoscope No.3 (item # 190723515715) sold for 355 euros + shipment.
I see a noticeable tendence towards cheaper prices, especially for readily available items.
Do you agree?

On the other hand, some very useful accessories (for old brass enthusiasts), are selling for crazy prices.
In the last weeks, i have seen a not_so_special diaphragm lens holder (max internal diameter 80mm) sell for 357 USD,
and a large front-mount accessory shutter (nothing special, definitely NOT an XXL size) going for big money as well.
Fortunately i have ammassed a good number of both kind of accessories, for some strange reason i love them.
Sooner or later i will take a new round of pictures, and add them to my Flickr set especially dedicated to lens holders and accessory shutters.
For those interested, you can reach the first round of pictures following the "For sale" link in my signature, and then navigating to my other sets.

Back to price dynamics:
while i see an healthy trend in many recent Ebay sales of the most common types of soft focus lenses, i can't find much common sense in the prices reached by some accessories.
I would love to get your opinion, maybe i am missing something.

[dap]

Back to price dynamics:
while i see an healthy trend in many recent Ebay sales of the most common types of soft focus lenses, i can't find much common sense in the prices reached by some accessories.
I would love to get your opinion, maybe i am missing something.

The high accessory prices are probably due to the fact that a lot of these accessories are relatively hard to find. At any one point in time you can find a couple of handfuls of vintage soft focus lenses on the bay...how many large universal focal plane shutters do you see? (just as an example). How many of these items were produced/sold (after all most of these accessories were luxuries in the photography world - you didn't NEED them to take photos)? Of the accessories that did find their way to the market I'd imagine that most of these "old fashioned" doo-dads were tossed in the garbage bin long ago when they stopped working and needed repair (how many people hang on to out-dated non-working shutters?). On the other hand, not many lenses get tossed in the trash - even a non-photographer could see that some old lens in a box of crap that dear old gramps left them when he kicked the bucket might have some value...not so much for that iris/clampy looking thingy who's function is a total mystery (right into the bin with all the other junk). Couple this with the fact that some of these accessories are pretty damn useful and have gained new appeal in this day and age of experimenting with old barrel lenses and suddenly the whole supply vs demand thing comes into play.

[Amedeus]

Back from PhotoKina ...

A Wollensak 16" f3.8 Vitax was sold for $1,200 Studio 5 shutter with flange (140854174847) BIN

A Wollensak 12" f4.5 Velostigmat with Soft Focus ring in non working Ilex 5 shutter for $233.5 (1209858797120

A uncommon 20" Ilex Paragon Variable Soft Focus lens with a Deardorff 8x10 studio camera attached sold for $1,750 (BIN) (261099348072) Camera stand included ... making it a bit harder to extract the lens value ;)

[Jim Galli]

A uncommon 20" Ilex Paragon Variable Soft Focus lens with a Deardorff 8x10 studio camera attached sold for $1,750 (BIN) (261099348072) Camera stand included ... making it a bit harder to extract the lens value ;)

Sounds like it cost him about $100 bucks to dispose of that lens by leaving it with the camera.

[Amedeus]

Yep ...

[Amedeus]

Cooke Brass Portrait Knuckle Soft Focus 13in f/5.6 Series VI for $1,200 BIN (320909016923) ... no flange

Wollensak Verito 9 inch Diffused Focus F4 for $313 (110954635909) ... Studio Shutter issues

[taulen]

Kodak 16 in. 405mm f4.5 w/ Packard Ideal Shutter on 9x9 Board (320988044628) - Winning bid:US $715.00

[Jim Galli]

Kodak 16 in. 405mm f4.5 w/ Packard Ideal Shutter on 9x9 Board (320988044628) - Winning bid:US $715.00

Again, it cost the guy about $100 bucks to include the Packard. My current Kodak 16" bought just this way with a non working Ilexpo shutter. All anybody ever saw was non-working. I think I paid $458 (there was also a question about aperture blades that the seller answered incorrectly putting off more of his buyers. It turned out to be perfect). I repaired the Ilexpo and sold it for 150 - ish so the Kodak was mine at like $300+ bucks.

This buyer can do the same and probably put $125 against his 700 making a very affordable Kodak 405 in the end.

[Amedeus]

Large Wollensak Veritar 14 inch f6 lens in Alphax Synchronized shutter for $656 (251155736379)

Another Kodak 405mm f4.5 today for $799 BIN + $65 EMS shipping ... (110956752619)

[evan clarke]

I just bought a 250mm soft focus Fujinon with both disks from a Japanese eBay seller..$250.00, mint condition. I'm already in love with this. Bought the 180 this morning, 1 disk, $250.00

[Amedeus]

Cooke 13in/5.6 Series VI Portrait Variable Soft Brass Lens for $1000 ... earlier no-knuckle version with flange (330774931067)

[Steven Tribe]

SAS auction (UK) yesterday - the only soft focus item this time: LOT 674.
T,T & H, Cooke - middle period F3.5 series II with ring adjustment. 12" made for the French market (seen before) 307mm. Looked OK with some movement in the SF mechanism.
£500, plus approx. 20%.

[Amedeus]

Dallmeyer 3A Brass Portrait Soft Focus for $1575, with Waterhouse stops, focus drive knob missing (150915700887)

Dallmeyer 3A Patent Portrait Soft Focus for $1825, Waterhouse stops at some point replace with iris, focus drive know missing (280978082836)

[eddie]

Dallmeyer 3A Patent Portrait Soft Focus for $1825, Waterhouse stops at some point replace with iris, focus drive know missing (280978082836)

WOW! and with separation! nice work steven! how do you do it?

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Verito 18" f 4.0 Diffused Focus in Studio Shutter for $1400 BIN, no flange (150915309373)

Nice looking HERMAGIS "Eidoscope N°3" f 5 for $910, missing flange (120994415230)

[lucaas]

Nice looking HERMAGIS "Eidoscope N°3" f 5 for $910, missing flange (120994415230)

Was it a re-sell of the item 190723515715 which sold by €355？ I made a $800 bid and lost it.

[Amedeus]

It was indeed a quick resale ...

[Amedeus]

Wollensak 15 1/2 in f/4.5 Series II Velostigmat Soft Focus lens for $700 BIN (271076357673)

[Steven Tribe]

Kershaw soft (portland look-alike) 11.5" F5.6, 221134865035, just £137.

Seller made a "ba**s u*" of the listing. Questions made it obvious he should have opened up for non-UK.
I suppose there was enough time for interested to have made "arrangements" with UK based friends?

[Amedeus]

Steven,

Seller absolutely refused to sell outside of the UK ... didn't even want to send it to Belgium where my sons live and I offered significantly more than what he got for it ... Hope someone else here got arrangement made with UK friends ... just don't get it ...

A very nice, great condition 280mm Plasticca sold on LFPF for $740

Kodak Portrait Lens 305mm ( 12inch ) f/4.5 Lens # RY214 sold for $405 (330805291757?)


Kershaw soft (portland look-alike) 11.5" F5.6, 221134865035, just £137.

Seller made a "ba**s u*" of the listing. Questions made it obvious he should have opened up for non-UK.
I suppose there was enough time for interested to have made "arrangements" with UK based friends?

[evan clarke]

I could slit my wrists over the Plasticca...

[Amedeus]

Tell me about it ... was number 2 in line ...


I could slit my wrists over the Plasticca...

[pierre506]

Steven,

Seller absolutely refused to sell outside of the UK ... didn't even want to send it to Belgium where my sons live and I offered significantly more than what he got for it ... Hope someone else here got arrangement made with UK friends ... just don't get it ...


The Kershaw seems that it lacks 1 or 2 piece of the apertures.
But still great.

[jumanji]

The Kershaw seems that it lacks 1 or 2 piece of the apertures.
But still great.

I did mention the seller about this. He described "I believe all the d=blades are there but I suspect one as slipped from it's securing pin and stopping down after f11 creates the discrepabcy u highlight.However there is no physical gap"
I think this shouldn't affect to the image. Well, we will know soon...

[cyberjunkie]

Kershaw soft (portland look-alike) 11.5" F5.6, 221134865035, just £137.

Seller made a "ba**s u*" of the listing. Questions made it obvious he should have opened up for non-UK.
I suppose there was enough time for interested to have made "arrangements" with UK based friends?

I didn't dare to disturb anybody to help me... but i asked the seller to open up his auction.
He replied that Ebay requested some kind of paper to be filed to open the auction of vintage items to foreign bidders.
I don't remember the exact terms of the problem, but i remember that he was offered 250 pounds for a BIN :)
After sending two emails i gave up.
I don't understand why he didn't relist the item, for example as large format lens, instead of antique/vintage.
I am a very tight pocket (i wish i could buy whatever i like, instead of what i can afford), but i was eager to beat the £250 offer. I payed 270 pounds for my No.3 Hermagis Eidoscope, and the Kershaw was well worth the same money, IMHO.

[Jody_S]

I didn't dare to disturb anybody to help me... but i asked the seller to open up his auction.
He replied that Ebay requested some kind of paper to be filed to open the auction of vintage items to foreign bidders.


Strange. I've bought lots of vintage items from UK sellers, many of them small sellers (all my Periflex and Agiflex gear, as well as a bunch of lenses). No one has ever had any objections to selling outside of the UK, nor has postage ever been that expensive, except for my Marion Soho Reflex with the Dallmeyer Pentac.

[Amedeus]

Good looking Wollensak Rochester Verito 9" Barrel Diffused Focus F 4 Lens Studio 1 Shutter for $393.88 and some shipping

[Amedeus]

Another Wollensak Vitax #3 Portrait, 16" for $835 and some shipping. Working studio shutter and flange included. (160898551837)

Wollensak Rochester Verito 8-1/2 inch Diffuse Focus F-4 Lens in nicely polished brass pneumatic shutter for $800 and some shipping (290787992741) Flange included.

[Steven Tribe]

Shame on you bargain hunters - where were you ?!

300793233506 - Cooke Series VI early soft version 13" (8x10). £263. VM suggests this version is the same optical design as the series II.

Reasons?

Early version , single photo, Reserve bid level.
But good description and a history of listing quality lenses.

[Jim Galli]

Series VI and IV are both f5.6 triplets but the VI is Portrait with soft focus and IV is mostly for smaller press cams. and field cameras. Series VI is actually more interchangeable with Series II. Why bother with an f5.6 and an f4.5 series? The difference in physical size was a magnitude. Series II 12 3/4" and Series VI 15 1/2" are physically the same size lens. They use the same flange.

$100 US to get it shipped here is excessive.


Shame on you bargain hunters - where were you ?!

300793233506 - Cooke Series VI early soft version 13" (8x10). £263. VM suggests this version is the same optical design as the series IV.

Reasons?

Early version , single photo, Reserve bid level.
But good description and a history of listing quality lenses.

[Amedeus]

I have already two ? :) ... but yes, this is a bargain ...


Shame on you bargain hunters - where were you ?!

300793233506 - Cooke Series VI early soft version 13" (8x10). £263. VM suggests this version is the same optical design as the series IV.

Reasons?

Early version , single photo, Reserve bid level.
But good description and a history of listing quality lenses.

[Steven Tribe]

Sorry about the "IV" slip - it's corrected to II in my note - but the original mistake carries through in the quotes!

[Amedeus]

Another Wollensak Vitax, No 5 f 3.8 today for $1,000 BIN (121000950790) ... no mention about iris or SF adjustment condition ...

[pierre506]

How about Ross 13in 330mm XIV F6.3 lens?
I found that it was listed yesterday evening but disappeared now.

[Amedeus]

360494790117 ended at $1007


How about Ross 13in 330mm XIV F6.3 lens?
I found that it was listed yesterday evening but disappeared now.

Just noticed that another Wollensak Vitax No5 was sold with what looks like a fresh polishing job on the forward barrel for $556 ... no flange, working shutter but no work on iris or SF adjustment (150922305515)

[Steven Tribe]

The only Ross candidates I can find are the two Cabinet no.3 lenses - both reaching very substantial prices. But these are not really soft lenses - just a standard Petzval with the same kind of aura as the Dallmeyer 3B's.

[Andrew Plume]

SAS auction (UK) yesterday - the only soft focus item this time: LOT 674.
T,T & H, Cooke - middle period F3.5 series II with ring adjustment. 12" made for the French market (seen before) 307mm. Looked OK with some movement in the SF mechanism.
£500, plus approx. 20%.

but you've overlooked the Swift Cabinet lens, Steven - surely that deserves a mention.....................

best

andrew

[Steven Tribe]

I agree it was interesting (and I did have the "bid now" button ready) but it is still a non-pictorial/non soft lens in CCHarrison's definition for this thread.

I also agree that some other classic/rare lens sales are of general interest and deserve an airing here - but it would require a linked and updateable website to collect and collate - in the same way as CC has done with soft lenses.

[jumanji]

You guys didn't mention an Universal Heliar in excellent condition recently ended for about $1300 on ebay :D.

[Steven Tribe]

Not mentioned because it ended after the last posting!

110962835506. Very nice looking Heliar (Universal only mentioned in the text) 360mm from the 1930's.

[Steven Tribe]

T,T & H, Cooke series 2E, 10.25".
110962835506. Looked nice but minus flange. Unable to see (from serial number) whether this is pre-war uncoated or coated later.
£1288.

Tempus fugit and when checking this 2E figure in CC's sales list, I discovered that the last updating of entries was the 4th quarter of last year!
I understand the demands on people lead to backlogs - I am a big sinner myself - but perhaps CC could mention whether it is likely to be updated at some time?

[CCHarrison]

Hi Steven

You are correct, I havent updated it an quite some time, for two reasons. First, is this thread provides a great deal of information and second, I dont think prices have changed that much from the data I have recorded. I think I have a fairly good sample. SF lenses have a large standard deviation, but the average price has been pretty stable over the past year or two in my opinion.... Having said that, if I can muster a half a day or so, OR some kind soul would like to help me - I'd be glad to update my list.

http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenssales.html

Thanks
Dan

[Steven Tribe]

I tend to agree about the stability of prices in general and the occasional atypical auctions. Especially as regards the massive data for Cooke, Dallmeyer and Wollensak! But some "lesser" names (frequencywise) could do with some more data, perhaps?

[Amedeus]

Dallmeyer 6D Soft Focus Petzval Lens with Iris for $1877 in aluminum with flange but stuck SF ring (290788329592)

Taylor Hobson Cooke IIe Portrait Soft Focus 10.5" f4.5 for $2065, no flange ... (310477388504)

Dallmeyer 6D Soft Focus Petzval lens with Iris for $1400 in aluminum, no flange and stuck SF ring on this forum

[Amedeus]

SNIP ... some kind soul would like to help me - I'd be glad to update my list.

http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenssales.html

Thanks
Dan

Not necessarily kind but I can spend some time and help out here by putting all the info in this thread into Excel. Can email and then Dan can easily extract and put into his format. I'll use the quarter/year format for timing as it can be hard at times to get the real sell date.

[Andrew Plume]

I agree it was interesting (and I did have the "bid now" button ready) but it is still a non-pictorial/non soft lens in CCHarrison's definition for this thread.

I also agree that some other classic/rare lens sales are of general interest and deserve an airing here - but it would require a linked and updateable website to collect and collate - in the same way as CC has done with soft lenses.



thanks, yes it's an interesting and pretty heavy lens

best

andrew

[CCHarrison]

Not necessarily kind but I can spend some time and help out here by putting all the info in this thread into Excel. Can email and then Dan can easily extract and put into his format. I'll use the quarter/year format for timing as it can be hard at times to get the real sell date.

Rudi - that'd be great ! If you can pick up the date (by quarter, price, location (ie ebay) and any notes that might be important (poor cond-old...black or brass etc...)

Thanks !
Dan

[Amedeus]

Will do.


Rudi - that'd be great ! If you can pick up the date (by quarter, price, location (ie ebay) and any notes that might be important (poor cond-old...black or brass etc...)

Thanks !
Dan

[pierre506]

130788783428 $1500
Som Berthiot Eidoscope #3, 375mm f/4.5
On Sinar board
With an adapter to Kodak 2D

[cyberjunkie]

130788783428 $1500
Som Berthiot Eidoscope #3, 375mm f/4.5


The Hermagis version of the No.3 has a FL of about 275mm.
Mine is in aluminium as well, nearly identical to the version sold after the acquisition by Berthiot.
I guess that the 375mm focal length was a typo.

If i am right, i hope that the buyer didn't bid so high because of the advertised FL!
Whatever... the Eidoscope No.3 seems to have very volatile prices. Very recently two different examples sold for much less.

[pierre506]

The Hermagis version of the No.3 has a FL of about 275mm.
Mine is in aluminium as well, nearly identical to the version sold after the acquisition by Berthiot.
I guess that the 375mm focal length was a typo.

If i am right, i hope that the buyer didn't bid so high because of the advertised FL!
Whatever... the Eidoscope No.3 seems to have very volatile prices. Very recently two different examples sold for much less.

Nope.
The seller listed a wrong number of the lens.
The actual engraved number is No. 2.

Som Berthiot is the late version of Hermagis.

[Steven Tribe]

I do hope luphot is not the French ebay lister!

[Amedeus]

Confirming the Berthiot is actually #2 (as engraved) and has a focal length of 375mm as engraved on the barrel. The listing is in error.

The Sinar board mounting and the additional Sinar adapter to Kodak 2D inflates the the lens price of course. I can see this adaptor as a desirable item for those with a variety of old and new 8x10 camera's :)

In addition but not related to this lens, just a reminder the Eidoscope lens #'s can be confusing at times when it comes to focal length. Some of you may have seen the link below:

http://mauritsbollen.com/2012/01/a-hermagis-eidoscope-no-3-that-is-not-a-no-3/

In short, test and doublecheck when in doubt ...


130788783428 $1500
Som Berthiot Eidoscope #3, 375mm f/4.5
On Sinar board
With an adapter to Kodak 2D

[alex from holland]

I do hope luphot is not the French ebay lister!

Yep, but also a very reliable seller!

[Emil Schildt]

Just want to state I did not make any ebay cross-posts!!

[goamules]

...Dallmeyer 3A Patent Portrait Soft Focus for $1825, Waterhouse stops at some point replace with iris, focus drive know missing (280978082836)

That lens has been relisted, either it didn't sell, or it was returned, same asking price 281009164749.

[Amedeus]

... and sold today for the same price ...


That lens has been relisted, either it didn't sell, or it was returned, same asking price 281009164749.

360mm GOERTZ PORTRAIT HYPAR f3.5 for $889, some coating issues (230866242712)

[Steven Tribe]

I have more data on:

"300793233506 - Cooke Series VI early soft version 13" (8x10)."
as it was bought by a very close relative ( no, I don't have a twin like Gandolfi!).

It is, indeed, the front lens soft adjustment model mentioned in VM.
This, I think, was sold through the American sales organisation as it includes New York, along with Leicester and London.
The adjusting soft focus control and the iris control have matching knobs.
Condition ( for statistical sales data) is excellent.
Serial number is 24809 which is in the period of uncertain dates for T,T & H - but around WW1.

I don't recall seeing any catalogue illustrations of this version - so I have included a few photos.

[Amedeus]

Thanks for the images Steven ... good to see this early Series VI variant. I have two Series VI, one without knuckles and one with knuckles. Both are quite different optical designs.

A Dallmeyer 3A was pulled off the bay today ... (271078493847) ... item no longer available

I looked at these Hermagis lenses also but seller didn't want to ship out of France ... (261115225824) ... both objectives are quite small (38mm), so wondering where they came from


I have more data on:

"300793233506 - Cooke Series VI early soft version 13" (8x10)."
as it was bought by a very close relative ( no, I don't have a twin like Gandolfi!).

It is, indeed, the front lens soft adjustment model mentioned in VM.
This, I think, was sold through the American sales organisation as it includes New York, along with Leicester and London.
The adjusting soft focus control and the iris control have matching knobs.
Condition ( for statistical sales data) is excellent.
Serial number is 24809 which is in the period of uncertain dates for T,T & H - but around WW1.

I don't recall seeing any catalogue illustrations of this version - so I have included a few photos.

[cyberjunkie]

Wonderful B&L Portrait Unar, with behind-the-lens Packard, sold for $875.
Item # 130788869686
I was going to submit my (lower) offer :(

Even more desiderable:
Busch-Perscheid 420mm, non symmetric version, removed from Ebay, after the vendor repeatedly stated that he wasn't going to stop the auction.
Probably he got a substantial offer, but i guess he made the wrong choice!

@ Steven:
i got beaten by your relative for the early Cooke Portrait
Didn't bid higher because i was unsure about the condition of the lens
I have seen the pictures you posted, and now i feel a little regretful.
Enough time to find another Christmas present for myself... :)

cheers

[Amedeus]

Wollensak 4/7,25' Verito Diffused Focus for $1,950 (370668482732) ... no flange but comes with a lens cap ...

[goamules]

Wollensak 4/7,25' Verito Diffused Focus for $1,950 (370668482732) ... no flange but comes with a lens cap ...

Sheeze, what's the deal with this? I guess my 7 1/4 in a Betax shutter is worth....oh....double that?!

[desertrat]

Sheeze, what's the deal with this? I guess my 7 1/4 in a Betax shutter is worth....oh....double that?!
A couple of wealthy collectors in a bidding war?

[Steven Tribe]

CJ - my son's decision to bid (and my support), and the bid level he made , was based on many factors. The most important were a previous sale by the lister and the listing English text and the knowledge the previous sales reserve bid was only £200. His current listing has a much higher reserve.

[pierre506]

Wonderful B&L Portrait Unar, with behind-the-lens Packard, sold for $875.
Item # 130788869686
I was going to submit my (lower) offer :(

...

The B & L 16in F4 portrait lens' price is reasonable with the shutter.

[cyberjunkie]

The B & L 16in F4 portrait lens' price is reasonable with the shutter.

Agreed.
Compared with the small Verito in shutter that went for nearly 2000 USD, 875 bucks for that nice B&L cannon is definitely dirty cheap...
BTW, those Portrait Unars are a work of art!

cheers

[Amedeus]

Wollensak 14" Veritar in shutter on Deardorff board sold for $650 (160913841696)

[CCHarrison]

Thanks to Rudi, "Amedeus," The Soft Focus Lens Sales page is now updated through October 31, 2012. Thanks Rudi !!

Please see http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenssales.html

Dan

[alex from holland]

Thanks to Rudi, "Amedeus," The Soft Focus Lens Sales page is now updated through October 31, 2012. Thanks Rudi !!

Please see http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenssales.html

Dan

WOW, what a great job. thumbs up for Rudi?

[Steven Tribe]

Indeed!

Have all the achieved prices been turned into USD? There seem to some sales in 2012 that I can't find or recognise from UK and other non-e**y auctions?

[Amedeus]

Steven,

I did turn into USD after applying auction fees where stated. Exchange rates are always tricky ... I try to apply the exchange rate of the day but when you go back to an e**y auction in euro 3 months later, you will see the USD amount changing as the exchange rate of the day you're looking on is used ...

If you have a list Steven, then email it to me so I can double check I indeed covered it all ... there's always a slight chance I overlooked an entry or so.


Indeed!

Have all the achieved prices been turned into USD? There seem to some sales in 2012 that I can't find or recognise from UK and other non-e**y auctions?

[Steven Tribe]

You seem to have got almost everything into the new list.
I have further info on 2 in 2012 - PM coming.

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Veritar 10" in Alphax shutter on lens board, with instruction book for $599, in nice condition. (330817908861)

DE PULLIGNY - Ligny (Meuse) Adjustable Landscape, with flange on lens board for $835 (280908210315)

A nice Wollensak Verito 8 3/4" f/4 Diffused Focus lens in Betax No5 with hood, cap on Graflex lens board $600, private sale

[goamules]

I'm sure everyone followed the 11" Graf Variable on a 5x7 Graflex. At least a few of us did, but I decided I have too many soft focus lenses right now.

181013473465 $2247

[dap]

I'm sure everyone followed the 11" Graf Variable on a 5x7 Graflex. At least a few of us did, but I decided I have too many soft focus lenses right now.

181013473465 $2247

That was one of those rare occasions where the lens/camera package ended up going for quite a bit more than the individual items would have if they were sold in separate auctions. I was really suprised by the final price - I didn't think it would go that high.

[Emil Schildt]

maybe I should mention I was th ebuyer of this nice eidoscope by Hermagis on this forum.. (400$)

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?96568-FS-Hermagis-Eidoscope-No-3-F5

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Emil, you were faster than I was on that one. Great deal! Congratulations

[Steven Tribe]

You paid too much Emil - it was only listed at 399, not 400 usd.
Did you see my email about a gandolfi lens board last week? Or are you too busy picking up bargains?

[Amedeus]

Congrats Emil and Maurits ... that one was sold before I even woke up ... lol ...
Emil, you were faster than I was on that one. Great deal! Congratulations

[Steven Tribe]

281017503980.
Later model Dallmeyer 2D with "turn the front barrel".
Looked OK, minus flange. As we know from another thread, the adjustment thread can be difficult if unused for decades.
£408.

[Amedeus]

Vintage Kodak Portrait Lens 405mm for $840 (170937479082) on 9x9 wooden lensboard. Serial RM239

[pierre506]

Wollensak Vitax 3# without the rear piece US $156.26（200844686854）

Dallmeyer 3B with lens board US $996.38 (150939289766)

[Steven Tribe]

281018055335
This is a Dallmeyer 3D from the same seller as the earlier 2D.
Late early model with rear cell adjustment.
£600.02 - the next highest bidder was at £600.00!
Looks quite good - but no Waterhouse stops or flange, as usual.

[Amedeus]

£400.02 ?



281018055335
This is a Dallmeyer 3D from the same seller as the earlier 2D.
Late early model with rear cell adjustment.
£600.02 - the next highest bidder was at £600.00!
Looks quite good - but no Waterhouse stops or flange, as usual.

[Steven Tribe]

Whoops!
Yes indeed - £400.02 - with next highest bid, £400.00.
It always pay to bid a bit up from round numbers!

[Amedeus]

Kodak Portrait Lens, 305 mm on metal 6x6 lensboard. Good condition, minor coating issues ... $600 (330822924363)

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Veritar 10" lens in Alphax shutter with flange for $300 ... nice looking with some coating issues on the rear element (300809081420)

[Amedeus]

Spencer Port-Land 15" f/5.6 for $2,000 with flange and extension tube (330828741733) ... Nice looking

Kalosat Series 1A f/4.5 Soft Focus Lens for $2,125 with flange (230881640071) ... Nice looking

Dalllmeyer 4D for $458 ... Some oxidation, some fungus mentioned ... (190754744392)

HERMAGIS EIDOSCOPE No 1 f/4.5 for $1065, nice looking ... Great deal ...

[lucaas]

Spencer Port-Land 15" f/5.6 for $2,000 with flange and extension tube (330828741733) ... Nice looking

Kalosat Series 1A f/4.5 Soft Focus Lens for $2,125 with flange (230881640071) ... Nice looking

Dalllmeyer 4D for $458 ... Some oxidation, some fungus mentioned ... (190754744392)

HERMAGIS EIDOSCOPE No 1 f/4.5 for $1065, nice looking ... Great deal ...

Was the eidoscope lens sold on E-bay? I can't believe I missed it....

[Amedeus]

No, sold on a Czech auction site ...


Was the eidoscope lens sold on E-bay? I can't believe I missed it....

[Steven Tribe]

Dalllmeyer 4D for $458 ... Some oxidation, some fungus mentioned ... (190754744392)

Fungus (of consequence)? I doubt it. Balsam problems are more likely. NO FLANGE!


Spencer Port-Land 15" f/5.6 for $2,000 with flange and extension tube (330828741733) ... Nice looking

Not a common size. First series (black Port-Land). Serial number is very close to mine. They all have some loss of enamel around the stamped data.

[Hugo Zhang]

There are a few soft focus lenses on this list:

https://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=2402231&acat=2402231&_ssl=off

[Steven Tribe]

Well this is one auction I forgot about!
Still prices way beyond my capabilities!
The Busch Nicola Perscheid 6/18cm is a big question mark - especialy at 7,200 euros!

[Amedeus]

Capturing Hugo's link info at Nov 24 conversion rates:

Busch Nicola Perscheid 180mm f/6 for $9342. Near mint condition, black painted brass, flange and original yellow filter.
Busch Nicola Perscheid 450mm f/4.5 for $5294. Mint black painted brass, leather front cap, flange
Busch Nicola Perscheid 450mm f/4.5 for $4049. Black painted brass, front cap and flange
Dallmeyer 3B for $2024. One WH stop included, flange. Good optics, few fine scratches on front element.
Voigtlander Universal-Heliar 420mm f/4.5 for $4671. Mint, clean lenses, flange, original lens caps and box.

From the usual spot:

Busch Nicola Perscheid 210mm f/4.5 for $2115. Black painted brass, some separation, flange. (150951328735)
Som Berthiot Eidoscope #4, 190mm f/4.5 for $750. Nice looking, with flange. (Image shows Hermagis Eidoscope) (160928396872)

[Amedeus]

Nice looking Taylor Hobson Cooke 13" f/4.5 Series II with front ring soft focus adjustment for $1500. Original flange included. (BIN, 221149933620)

[Amedeus]

Another nice looking Som Berthiot Eidoscope #4 F=4.5/190mm with flange for $800 (BIN, 160928396854)

[Steven Tribe]

Late "front turn" Dallmeyer 3B.
Barrel completely green, optics filthy or delaminated - with flange and screws!
281028735022 and £883.00.

[lucaas]

HERMAGIS eidoscope 150mm f4.5 in a focusing mount sold for GBP920 (US $1,480).
150955240804

[Amedeus]

Kodak 305mm f/4.5 Portrait Lens with flange and original lens cap for $500 (230882725588)

Very nice looking Hermagis Paris Eidoscope F/4.5 n° 2 with flange for $1570 (181034339090)

[eddie]

Capturing Hugo's link info at Nov 24 conversion rates:

Busch Nicola Perscheid 180mm f/6 for $9342. Near mint condition, black painted brass, flange and original yellow filter.
Busch Nicola Perscheid 450mm f/4.5 for $5294. Mint black painted brass, leather front cap, flange
Busch Nicola Perscheid 450mm f/4.5 for $4049. Black painted brass, front cap and flange
Dallmeyer 3B for $2024. One WH stop included, flange. Good optics, few fine scratches on front element.
Voigtlander Universal-Heliar 420mm f/4.5 for $4671. Mint, clean lenses, flange, original lens caps and box.

From the usual spot:

Busch Nicola Perscheid 210mm f/4.5 for $2115. Black painted brass, some separation, flange. (150951328735)
Som Berthiot Eidoscope #4, 190mm f/4.5 for $750. Nice looking, with flange. (Image shows Hermagis Eidoscope) (160928396872)

Okay. Not sure why they say 450mm on the nicola.... I have a 480mm. Nicola and a 480mm universal heliar......

I think i am going to offer them for sale. :)

[Amedeus]

Okay. Not sure why they say 450mm on the nicola....

Good catch Eddie ... it's a typo ... has to be 420mm in both cases ;-)

[Amedeus]

Wollensak Verito Diffused Focus 14.5" f/4 in Studio 4 shutter for $1149 (BIN, 261096489628). Tiny scratch on the front element, doubt this would affect imaging at all.

[cyberjunkie]

Wollensak Verito 4.5/14.5" 381 USD
Ebay item 221162819360
small ding on lens rim, not specified if the Studio shutter is working... but the lens looked nice in the 10" LCD of my cheap chinese pad.
I checked, and saw that the lens didn't sell twice as a BIN. So i was not entirely sure that there were no flaws that would be evident with a bigger monitor.
I didn't check before because i thought i was going to win another auction.
In fact, i lost that auction and decided to bid on a whim: it came a couple of bucks short from the winning bid. My snipe was too late, so i didn't learn if the winner's bid was higher...
After checking the pictures on my computer monitor, i guess the winner got a nice bargain.

Another nice lens (for B&W work) that's not so common in the longer focals:
Boyer Opale 4.5/300mm
660 USD
Ebay # 230892594368

[dap]

Just to balance out the over the top price on the ebay 150mm eidoscope mentioned several posts ago I'll mention the 150mm eidoscope I just sold on the forum classifieds...$725 (In ibsor shutter, nice shape, slight separation - a fair price for both buyer and seller IMHO).

I also sold a 11.5" verito in barrel (nice condition) on the forum classifieds for $500

[Emil Schildt]

DALLMEYER 3B $1,936.20

130814003004 Item number

[Emil Schildt]

Dallmeyer 3B

$3,707.60

190766340402

[Steven Tribe]

This is, of course, much more than any previous 3B in Dan's list.
More than most of the size 4, 5 and 6's too (of all A,B & D versions).

Personally, I think the front turn versions should be at a premium, as the "back notch" rear adjustment must be a PITA.

A lovely example of a lens that was almost standard equipment - and quite common, beating lenses that are rarer, but not so generally useful!

[lucaas]

Cooke Portrait Series VI 18"/f5.6 sold for $1630
380533130860

[goamules]

It says something that a Dallmeyer portrait lens made in the thousands for generations, and available 10 or 20 times a year is worth more than rare, pictorial era, true soft focus lenses that only had a few hundred made for only 5 or so years, and are available only once every couple years. I tell people all the time, "rarity" doesn't count for value, "popularity" does. There are dozens of other manufacturer's Petzvals that will give you the exact same look as a 3B. But there are only a few, true soft focus lenses, that all give a different, unique look on film. Go figure.

[Mark Sawyer]

"Beach Auxiliary Lens No. 5 - Very RARE Pictorialist Filter! (Multi-Focal)" $193.50, + $7.99 s&h

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beach-Auxiliary-Lens-No-5-Very-RARE-Pictorialist-Filter-Multi-Focal-/170957431163?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&nma=true&si=%2FQzwFu41Xpm8JhvUhGP%2FIDdkXVs%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Sounded like quite a nice collector's item, and one I'm not very familiar with.

[Jim Galli]

It should be noted for when the sale expires very soon, that this is not a Beach Wollensak lens, it is a filter that goes in front of an ordinary lens and supplies some of the qualities of the Beach lens. So it's a filter with three set screws to hold it onto a lens, not a lens.

Yes the guy's title states that nicely. But future readers could easily assume it was the usual ignorant ebay title, viz-a-viz a Beach 12" lens in a #5 shutter or some such.


"Beach Auxiliary Lens No. 5 - Very RARE Pictorialist Filter! (Multi-Focal)" $193.50, + $7.99 s&h

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beach-Auxiliary-Lens-No-5-Very-RARE-Pictorialist-Filter-Multi-Focal-/170957431163?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&nma=true&si=%2FQzwFu41Xpm8JhvUhGP%2FIDdkXVs%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Sounded like quite a nice collector's item, and one I'm not very familiar with.

[Mark Sawyer]

It should be noted for when the sale expires very soon, that this is not a Beach Wollensak lens, it is a filter that goes in front of an ordinary lens and supplies some of the qualities of the Beach lens. So it's a filter with three set screws to hold it onto a lens, not a lens.

Yes the guy's title states that nicely. But future readers could easily assume it was the usual ignorant ebay title, viz-a-viz a Beach 12" lens in a #5 shutter or some such.

Quite right, Jim! A Beach Multi-Focal filter could easily be confused with a Beach Multi-Focal lens, especially when the listing disappears. BTW, do you (or anyone else here?) know anything about this filter? It sounds a little like the Duto filter with its "concentric rings", but its ability to spread the depth-of-field (a claim common for early soft lenses) makes it sound different from the simple diffusion qualities of a Duto.

[Jim Galli]

Quite right, Jim! A Beach Multi-Focal filter could easily be confused with a Beach Multi-Focal lens, especially when the listing disappears. BTW, do you (or anyone else here?) know anything about this filter? It sounds a little like the Duto filter with its "concentric rings", but its ability to spread the depth-of-field (a claim common for early soft lenses) makes it sound different from the simple diffusion qualities of a Duto.

Hi Mark. No, first I've ever seen or heard of one of these. So I don't know any more than what the box claimed. Interesting though.

[goamules]

I think it works the the Beach Multi-Focal Wonder Cream I have. Comes in a jar like vasoline. Looks and smells like it too. (this should throw off lens surfers in the distant future).

[cyberjunkie]

I watched that auction.
Interesting item, though the final price is a little bit on the silly side for a filter!
No way i'd pay 193 USD for something as basic, especially when there are full-fledged soft-focus lenses which can be had on the cheap:

Ilex Paragon 12" Series A in black Ilex No.5
$195
Ebay item # 130818437007

Is it an exact replica of the Velo Series II?
The barrel looks to be more or less the same (as in the latest? version of the soft-focus Series II).
I am wondering if there is the same small screw that stops the soft ring after one full turn...

It's not as common as its Wollensak counterpart. I guess it was not a mass production, is there any info about when the production started/stopped?

[Hugo Zhang]

A nice Cooke Anastigmat 12 1/2" f/3.5 lens sold for $1,328.88. Item #:300833428386
I think it's a soft focus lens when shooting wide open.

[dap]

A nice Cooke Anastigmat 12 1/2" f/3.5 lens sold for $1,328.88. Item #:300833428386
I think it's a soft focus lens when shooting wide open.

That was an interesting one. The f.l. and speed is the same as a IIa but without the soft focus feature and placed inside some kind of processing style barrel. I wonder what the original market was for this one (custom job, industrial,????).

[Emil Schildt]

Ilex Paragon 12" Series A in black Ilex No.5
$195
Ebay item # 130818437007

Is it an exact replica of the Velo Series II?
The barrel looks to be more or less the same (as in the latest? version of the soft-focus Series II).
I am wondering if there is the same small screw that stops the soft ring after one full turn...

It's not as common as its Wollensak counterpart. I guess it was not a mass production, is there any info about when the production started/stopped?

I have a 16" Paragon.

And I think you're right in it being made as the Velo.

The ring does stop after one full turn - I have to go to my studio to see if I can see a screw...

I am sorry I missed out on this - I'd be happy to pay more for that one... great lens!

[Amedeus]

The Ilex lens was indeed a nice deal ...

Aluminum barrel Dallmeyer 3D attached to a non-functioning focal plane shutter for $812 (360535691247)

Nice looking brass barrel Dallmeyer 2B with flange for $1500 (BIN, 110988652483)

Nice looking brass Dallmeyer 5D with iris and flange for $2000 (BIN, 150961926409)

Nice looking Hermagis Eidoscope No 1 for $2000 (BIN, 251114152814)

Good looking Gundlach Manhattan Optical Hyperion Diffusion Portrait lens, 18" f/4 with flange on Deardorff lens board for $1299 (BIN, 400364792908)

[eddie]

th eonly problem is the front turn versions are mostly always stuck....unless you can find a brass version. better chances of teh brass ones working.

also, truth be known very frew people ever use the "soft focus" on a petzval anyway. do you know anyone who does? does any one here use it? IMO only a gimmick.


This is, of course, much more than any previous 3B in Dan's list.
More than most of the size 4, 5 and 6's too (of all A,B & D versions).

Personally, I think the front turn versions should be at a premium, as the "back notch" rear adjustment must be a PITA.

A lovely example of a lens that was almost standard equipment - and quite common, beating lenses that are rarer, but not so generally useful!

[goamules]

I used the Dallmeyer "soft" feature....once. Hated it. If you focus one of these Dallmeyers so the image is sharp, then turn the "soft" adjustment, it's basically out of focus, not really soft focus. Because if you then leave the soft focus where you've set it, and refocus the lens, it goes back to sharp again. With no difference that I can discern. I'm sure it changes the field curvature a little, but that is going to be hard to notice unless you are shooting a graph on a wall or something.

[Amedeus]

Nice looking Wollensak Velogstigmat, 16" with soft focus for $405, in barrel with flange. (140898053202)

Bausch and Lomb Portrait Unar Soft Focus 18" for $1500 (BIN, 200867242375) Earlier model with the little ears on the iris and SF adjustment.

Nice looking Hermagis Eidoscope #2 for $2300 ... lens cap, leather lens holder but no flange ... (BIN,160940387668)

[Jim Galli]

Nice looking Wollensak Velogstigmat, 16" with soft focus for $405, in barrel with flange. (140898053202)

Bausch and Lomb Portrait Unar Soft Focus 18" for $1500 (BIN, 200867242375) Earlier model with the little ears on the iris and SF adjustment.

Nice looking Hermagis Eidoscope #2 for $2300 ... lens cap, leather lens holder but no flange ... (BIN,160940387668)


Rudi, that Velostigmat did NOT have soft focus and I alerted the seller that he was being dis-honest but he ignored my advice. Ebay buyer's beware. Know what you're looking at. Lots of dishonest greedy sellers that will say anything to get your money.

[Amedeus]

Jim, you are right of course ... I missed the added images and the seller's note that this wasn't a SF version ...

[Amedeus]

Nicola Perscheid, 480mm for $1,830, with lens cap but no flange (190773628644)

Kodak Portrait 305mm in Ilex #5 shutter, original box, lens cap and cable release for $799 (BIN, 160944121739)

OIP (Gand) Labor, 440mm soft focus lens, similar design as Universal Heliar for $1,465 (360542703912) ... SF mechanism stuck... Lens made in Belgium (Not Dutch/French as the description states)

[Steven Tribe]

Actually "Dutch/French" is not a completely misleading name for Belgium!

[Jim Galli]

Nicola Perscheid, 480mm for $1,830, with lens cap but no flange (190773628644)

Kodak Portrait 305mm in Ilex #5 shutter, original box, lens cap and cable release for $799 (BIN, 160944121739)

OIP (Gand) Labor, 440mm soft focus lens, similar design as Universal Heliar for $1,465 (360542703912) ... SF mechanism stuck... Lens made in Belgium (Not Dutch/French as the description states)


Rudi, the NIcola was the triplet version. Is there a big value difference between the original modified aplanat version of this and the later triplet?

[Hugo Zhang]

Rudi, the NIcola was the triplet version. Is there a big value difference between the original modified aplanat version of this and the later triplet?

Few sales of 48cm Nicola Perscheid lenses in the past few years and they went from a few hundred to 3k. There are 3-4 listings of them on ebay for some time asking 4-5K. This particular seller in HK mostly deals in small format cameras/lenses and the lens was listed as $3,800 and went unsold before this sale.

This is a good deal and somebody beat me.

Is that you, lucky Jim? g***m( 722)

[Amedeus]

Actually "Dutch/French" is not a completely misleading name for Belgium!

Try Flemish/Walloon ;-)

But yes, the Gent "elite" spoke "French" in the days this lens was manufactured at OIP ... aiding to the confusion of what is spoken where in Belgium ... I went to senior high in Gent and even then some students were mostly French speaking at home

[Amedeus]

Rudi, the NIcola was the triplet version. Is there a big value difference between the original modified aplanat version of this and the later triplet?

Jim,

I believe the original modified aplanat is the desirable version and I've seen significant price differences in the past ... this is most likely why this lens (clearly triplet) didn't sell at $3800+ BIN first time around ...

[eddie]

Jim,

I believe the original modified aplanat is the desirable version and I've seen significant price differences in the past ... this is most likely why this lens (clearly triplet) didn't sell at $3800+ BIN first time around ...

Yup. Big difference in price.....and image. And i gotta 480 original.......non triplet...:)

:)

Eddie

[tgtaylor]

A near mint 250mm Imagon complete with 3 disks and filter sold for less than $500 on eBay recently.

Thomas

[Amedeus]

Crown Optical Co 14 Inch F/5 8x10 Portrait Soft Focus (through rear adjustment) Petzval Lens for $815 (251205540021) ... brass in studio shutter with flange

Good looking 14.5" Verito for $725 (BIN, 150968944752) with flange but Studio shutter could use CLA

[kapro]

Dallmeyer 3.B.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dallmeyer-3B-Soft-Focus-Petzval-Brass-Lens-/300839322036?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item460b6bc1b4

The same lens (No.18393) which was sold at Westlicht Camera Auction 21 - November 24th, 2012 in Vienna for €1560,-

[goamules]

I can't tell if this one has the soft focus adjustment, but a very rare [no kidding] Dallmeyer 2C just sold for only $440. 150967279742 These were one of the fastest petzvals made (for actual photography use), and were advertised at just over F2. I have people calling me all the time asking for Petzvals "...faster than the normal F3.7..." and I tell them 99% were that fast or slower. The C model is one that is Extra-Quick, among a couple other types. It's funny that they sometimes sell so cheap as everyone is climbing over themselves to get a B model.

[alex from holland]

Garrett. The problem is that many wet platers want to go bigger and bigger.
Thtat's why everybody is looking for big fast petzvla lenses and forget how nice little ambro's can look like...

Alex

[Steven Tribe]

Yes, this is a shocking price for a 2C.

I didn't even both to follow it as it was "beyond my means" - I thought.
Another very fast item, made by old ex-associate of Dallmeyer - called a "baby" lens, rather than just for fidgeting children, sold for much more recently.

I suppose that people could see the lack of soft adjustment.
I don't think any "C"s were made with soft adjustment - perhaps they even have the original Petzval rear cell arrangement.

It is considered bad form by many to draw attention to current active listings (last post on previous page) and may be considered as being due to vested interest!

[Emil Schildt]

Nicola Perscheid 42cm: 2,827.60

121043486496

[kapro]

It is considered bad form by many to draw attention to current active listings (last post on previous page) and may be considered as being due to vested interest!

It seems weird or suspicious if the lens bought at the end of November in auction is offered for sale month later. That's the only reason why I pointed at that particular auction.

[Steven Tribe]

Which, of course, is a reasonable thing to do. But that wasn't clear to me, sorry.

[Tim Deming]

It seems weird or suspicious if the lens bought at the end of November in auction is offered for sale month later. That's the only reason why I pointed at that particular auction.

This happens quite often on the auction site. I suspect some folks are trying to turn a quick buck, so to speak. Or, perhaps want to try out a lens and just dont like it (but would have to lay out a few hundred $ for the pleasure). From what I've seen, few of these re-sells make much money, and sometimes lose money

cheers

Tim

[Steven Tribe]

Westlicht described the Dallmeyer as B/C condition. But it has quite extensive Balsam separation, not described in the original auction, which may have worried the original winner. Alternatively, the Austrian lister could be a system of disposing of "returned" "not as described" items which the Auctioneers get back in the month after an auction?

[cyberjunkie]

Something i've never seen before:
Fujinon SF 420mm f/5.6
820 USD
Like new, in box, with the two usual disks common to all other Fuji SF lenses
Ebay item number: 221170745391

I though i was aiming quite high, with my snipe, but the final price was much higher!
As far as i remember, i have seen no other modern SF lens (unshuttered) reach a similar price.
The only coated SF lenses that can go for even more, are the Cooke Portrait Series IIe (especially the longer focals). Not properly a "modern" lens though, albeit still made for some time after WWII.
Now that i think about it, i realize that all the modern, coated SF lenses (read: still in production during the seventies), in barrel or in shutter, are quite cheap.
I am not aware of any exception.
Am i missing something?

cheers

[evan clarke]

Jeezuz, tell us before the auction is done!!

[kapro]

Westlicht described the Dallmeyer as B/C condition. But it has quite extensive Balsam separation, not described in the original auction, which may have worried the original winner. Alternatively, the Austrian lister could be a system of disposing of "returned" "not as described" items which the Auctioneers get back in the month after an auction?

All the items sold by Westlicht had been exhibited in their premisses for a while before the auction started. Everybody could see and check it in advance. I had done the same before the the 21st auction in the May 2012 and then bought just selected lenses. Some of those I had intention to buy weren't in acceptable condition. Even the bidders bidding via internet or phone have had the possibility to check the chosen items in advance or somebody could do it on behalf of them. I think that Westlicht have used to answer the questions on auctioned items as well. I don't have knowledge about returning items after the auction because of "not as described". When I discussed with lady in Westlicht, she didn't mention this possibility but who knows...?
BTW in the case of 21th W. auction most of the lenses from the "Historical lenses" sections were bought by the bidders in the auction hall, not via internet or phone.
When I took part on the auction in May 2012 there was sold this leica for €2.160.000,-:
http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?f=popup&id=256084&_ssl=off#256084

I can't imagine anybody buying such an expensive camera without checking it. OK, I can't imagine spending 200.000 times less for lens or camera without seeing it before auction in Westlicht. I should fix my wallet.. ;-)

[jp]

When I took part on the auction in May 2012 there was sold this leica for €2.160.000,-:
http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?f=popup&id=256084&_ssl=off#256084

I can't imagine anybody buying such an expensive camera without checking it. OK, I can't imagine spending 200.000 times less for lens or camera without seeing it before auction in Westlicht. I should fix my wallet.. ;-)

People routinely pay far more than that for antique cars at auction sight unseen. Internet and phone auction participation is an important part of their business.

[Steven Tribe]

I have never bought from Westlicht, but I have done so from a number of UK and Swedish on-line auctions with competitors in the room. These have not been at same prestige levels as WestLicht and co. Sometimes, I have had someone look over them in the room (preview) - but mostly I have bid based on instinct, experience, photographs and worst case scenario. A high percentage of purchases of soft lenses in the auctions I have followed have been by internet bidders (myself included).

UK Auctioneers tend to describe the condition of lenses I have bought much lower than I would have done and they do not attempt to diagnose optics problems! Getting a reasonable reply through questions and extra photos which should help, doesn't help too much - and there will always be the element of risk.
I know that certain UK auctioneers do except returns on items.

Back to Dallmeyer 3B: this type of separation (clear concave phase) is the type which could have occured recently (transport, temperature?) and looks labile to me!

[Emil Schildt]

Dallmeyer 3B
EUR 1,642.00 (2136$)

300839322036

[8x10 user]

42 cm Universal Heliar

$3,137 300839518334

Listed at $1000 with $2000 BIN

[cyberjunkie]

.. Dallmeyer 2C just sold for only $440. 150967279742
These were one of the fastest petzvals made (for actual photography use), and were advertised at just over F2. I have people calling me all the time asking for Petzvals "...faster than the normal F3.7..." and I tell them 99% were that fast or slower.


I wouldn't be as definitive in my statement. Unless you are limiting your consideration to lenses of the same vintage or older.
I am not going to check when the "C" Patent Portrait lineup was introduced, but i am 100% sure that i have two petzvals which are as fast or faster, plus a few other ones that still awaits to be measured (or which i don't remember well enough to be 100% sure about their specs).
The first two are:
1) a 120mm f/2.2 (made by the company that took the name of ISCO, and produced in early 20th century)
2) a post-WWII 110mm f/1.9 cine petzval made by Galileo, in Italy

back to the core of the thread now... i just wanted to make it clear that petzvals faster than f/3.2 are not an impossible find.
unless you add to the equation "with some collector's value"

have fun

CJ

[Steven Tribe]

I am not going to check when the "C" Patent Portrait lineup was introduced

I have checked all the available catalogues for Dallmeyer and they support my idea (and many others too, probably) that there never was a "Patent" series C Dallmeyer Petzval. The latest catalogue being from 1904.

That is, the rear arrangement of the 1840's and 1850's was continued in the C's which excluded the provision of a screw-out rear lens.

There are no soft focus model C's! And the one given in the "sales register" should be expunged!!

[eddie]

Dallmeyer 3.B.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dallmeyer-3B-Soft-Focus-Petzval-Brass-Lens-/300839322036?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item460b6bc1b4

The same lens (No.18393) which was sold at Westlicht Camera Auction 21 - November 24th, 2012 in Vienna for €1560,-

wow! loks like a gamble and a loss. €1642 on e bay and €1560 from the auction.....so did they include the auction fee in the 1560? if not the ebay person lost on this one. kinda hard to buy from a famous auction house like westlicht and sell on e bay and make $$$. maybe the other way around.....

[Mark Sawyer]

I wouldn't be as definitive in my statement. Unless you are limiting your consideration to lenses of the same vintage or older.
I am not going to check when the "C" Patent Portrait lineup was introduced, but i am 100% sure that i have two petzvals which are as fast or faster, plus a few other ones that still awaits to be measured (or which i don't remember well enough to be 100% sure about their specs).
The first two are:
1) a 120mm f/2.2 (made by the company that took the name of ISCO, and produced in early 20th century)
2) a post-WWII 110mm f/1.9 cine petzval made by Galileo, in Italy

back to the core of the thread now... i just wanted to make it clear that petzvals faster than f/3.2 are not an impossible find.

Note that Garrett used the phrase "one of the fastest petzvals made" and the qualifier "for actual photography use", which for our purposes usually leaves out cine and projection lenses. He also noted "The C model is one that is Extra-Quick, among a couple other types."

You're right though, other extra fast Petzvals do exist, and are not impossible to find, especially if one goes to projection lenses.

[goamules]

cyberjunkie, yeah, what mark says, plus I wasn't considering cine or 35mm lenses, just LF photography. Because I have a ton of 35mm lenses that are faster than F2.0, like sonnars and just about any "Fast 50" speed lens. It's not the same thing on small format. But if you know a Photographic Petzval longer than 150mm and faster than F3.1, what have you got on your list? Huh? Tell me...huh?!

[CCHarrison]

Steve, you are correct about the "C" not having the Diffusion of Focus features. In 1860, Dallmeyer produced his first Petzvals. The "B" model (known as the "Quick-Acting Portrait Lens" ) was first, followed by the "C" model ("Extra-Quick Acting Portrait Lens") in 1861. It was until 1866 that Dallmeyer started selling Petzvals with the Diffusion of Focus feature (and were named "Patent-Portrait" lenses), but the C model was never made with this feature- only the B, A, D, models.

[Steven Tribe]

Question is why?

- Couldn't get the this speed with the redesigned rear pair?
- Low sales of the C not worth the design investment? -or-
- Children are "fuzzy" enough without including this feature - snapshots rather than portrait art?

[CCHarrison]

Not sure. Although a couple of things to remember, this model was very expensive (3x more than the B model) and the largest C model only covered 4x5 inches. So perhaps expense, demand, and/or simply the fact that these produced relatively small images and therefore difffusion was less necessary.

http://antiquecameras.net/images/447_dclens89.jpg

Dan

[eddie]

cyberjunkie, yeah, what mark says, plus I wasn't considering cine or 35mm lenses, just LF photography. Because I have a ton of 35mm lenses that are faster than F2.0, like sonnars and just about any "Fast 50" speed lens. It's not the same thing on small format. But if you know a Photographic Petzval longer than 150mm and faster than F3.1, what have you got on your list? Huh? Tell me...huh?!


uuummmm? i got a 3c! 8 inch......240mm......:p nah ! nah nah nah nah! :p

[Amedeus]

305mm Kodak Portrait lens in barrel on lensboard for $372 (121047312523)

Nice looking TAYLOR - HOBSON COOKE PORTRAIT ANASTIGMAT 12 3/4 INCH SERIES II F/4.5 No. 120514, knuckle version, for $1800 (230907520415)

Hermagis Eidsocope 150mm in shutter for $835, private sale

[cyberjunkie]

cyberjunkie, yeah, what mark says, plus I wasn't considering cine or 35mm lenses, just LF photography. Because I have a ton of 35mm lenses that are faster than F2.0, like sonnars and just about any "Fast 50" speed lens. It's not the same thing on small format. But if you know a Photographic Petzval longer than 150mm and faster than F3.1, what have you got on your list? Huh? Tell me...huh?!

I reported the first two lenses that came to my mind.
You are right, one was a cine lens, and the other was the Gottingen Werke (ISCO), which is not cut for waterhouse stops, so probably is a projection petzval, but in absence of a catalogue, we can't be 100% sure.
I can say it with good reasons:
i have another unmarked petzval, very big in size, and for sure quite fast, which has no WH slot, but does not look at all like a projection lens.
The lens has a very deep sunshade (not needed in a projection lens), is 25/30cm tall (going by memory), large diameter, and short FL (about 210mm, which makes it quite fast... soon i have to check the exact speed).
It was made by Voigtlander between early 1850 and early 1860 (going by memory again, i am writing from my tablet), because it is signed "... Wien und Braunschweig" in two glasses. It is different from all the Voigtlander petzvals i have seen in picture.
AFAIK at that time there was no differentiation between photographic and projection petzvals, the Projectos were made about two decades later.

The Voigtlander was one of the (very) few examples i had in mind, but i refrained from citing all of them because i don't have the exact speed, or because i already reported a similar specimen (other than the post-WWII Galileo, i own a few Koritska pre-war petzvals with f/2.1 and f/2.2 speed, clearly proj optics).

Frankly i don't get your critics.
Both lenses i mentioned have a place here.
NO 50mm, NO small or medium format lenses, NO microscope petzvals, JUST petzval formula optics which cover more than 6.5x9, albeit one would slightly vignette on 9x12, and the other would give a good amount of swirl...
Today i gave another example, and there are at least two other old petzvals (both british-made) which i deem to be faster than f/3, but i don't know how much.
If somebody completes/revises something i have said or written, i am happy to learn something new.
No need to get heated if i am giving you a couple of examples.
Believe me, nobody is trying to attack you or question your competence. There is no need to backtrack to a safer ground changing f/3.7 in f/3.1, and placing an ex-novo limit of 150mm.
I get your point, and i agree with you in global terms.
I just dare to object that there are few exceptions. :)
Come on!


P.S.
I asked for help about the identification of the big Voigtlander petzval, on this forum and elsewhere, with zero success.
The thread is wrongly titled because i thought it was an Hermagis, before examining the lens (which was incredibly difficult to open).
When i'm done with the restoration, i will post pictures and quotes.

P.S. 2
If i haven't been clear enough: i must agree that old petzvals are quite rare in speeds greater than f/3.8, especially the longer focals.
Usually i buy lenses that would cover whole plate or larger. With long FL's, a speed of f/4 is already good.
As everything started with a Dallmeyer "C", here is an ad-hoc example: the B&L copies of Dallmeyer "Patent Portrait" petzvals were made in f/4 and f/5 speeds, and even at f/5 an 8x10" portrait lens isn't small at all.
I have a 12" f/4, originally sold for 5x7" and possibly whole plate, which is NOT a feather-weight!
Though smaller petzvals, like some CdV ones, were made by some manufacturers in much larger apertures.


have fun

CJ

[Amedeus]

uuummmm? i got a 3c! 8 inch......240mm......:p nah ! nah nah nah nah! :p

Is it 8" or is it 240mm ... two different things ... ;-)

[eddie]

Is it 8" or is it 240mm ... two different things ... ;-)

yeah yeah yeah....public school math....dont you know nuttin? how about 200mm? better?.....now where did i leave that damn slide rule....not worth the money!

[Jim Galli]

305mm Kodak Portrait lens in barrel on lensboard for $372 (121047312523)

Nice looking TAYLOR - HOBSON COOKE PORTRAIT ANASTIGMAT 12 3/4 INCH SERIES II F/4.5 No. 120514, knuckle version, for $1800 (230907520415)

Hermagis Eidsocope 150mm in shutter for $835, private sale

Thanks for all the hard work keeping up with this stuff. Wish I'd gotten the Kodak.

I consider the 150 Eidy the penultimate soft focus lens for 4X5. imesho that is.

[Amedeus]

Thanks for all the hard work keeping up with this stuff. Wish I'd gotten the Kodak.

I consider the 150 Eidy the penultimate soft focus lens for 4X5. imesho that is.

You're welcome ...

The Kodak was nice and a great deal. Eidoscope 150mm is on my wishlist ... I've adopted the 190mm Eidoscope on my Mamiya 645AFD and very happy with the results ... looking for shorter focus SF llens ... P&S Gillies would be nice too ...

Voigtlander Universal Heliar 30cm f/4.5 Variable Soft Focus for $1,247 ... (261149906171)

SOM BERTHIOT Eidoscope 275mm f/4.5 for $1,100 ... (261152156622)

Wollensak Verito Diffused Lens 18in f=4 with Studio 5 shutter on Packard Shutter for $1,405 (321051125960) on lensboard with extra Packard shutter.

[john wood]

Thanks for all the hard work keeping up with this stuff. Wish I'd gotten the Kodak.

I consider the 150 Eidy the penultimate soft focus lens for 4X5. imesho that is.

I miss it already, but bills to be paid...it is a rather wonderful length for the Eidy lineup. I like the 275mm too for 4x5, which I watched until it went passed my pay grade...

[Amedeus]

Brass Wollensak - Rochester Verito 9 Inch Diffused Focus F - 4 Lens with Studio Shutter mounted on lens board and Packard shutter for $306 (300844381301) ... Shutters not tested

Like new looking Dallmeyer 2A London Patent #39451 for $2516 (BIN,160951018570)

Wollensak Verito soft focus portrait lens 9", f/4.5 for $500. On lens board, nice looking. (200875694665)

Very nice looking Cooke brass portrait lens 16", f/5.6 Series VI for $3050 (200875660503)

Graf Variable f/3.8-4.5 lens. with (EF) is 11-12.5 in. Very nice looking with original brochure for $2025 (200875653827)

Ligny (Meuse) Anachromatique 385mm f5 soft focus portrait brass lens for $818 (281047805138)

Wollensak Vitax No. 4 Soft Focus Portrait Lens f3,8 for $780 (121046766290) ... in barrel, on lens board with Packard shutter. Internal lens clouded.

[Steven Tribe]

The Graf Variable was described as coated. I believe B & J marketed this model post-war? Far above previous listed achieved prices.

Perhaps this and the early Cooke series VI 16" should have a star (*) mark in the sales register to indicate "known" provenance (owner or user).
The Alt collection photo shows that they are selling the items nearest the camera first! A lot of these are not softies, I suppose.

[Jim Galli]

Brass Wollensak - Rochester Verito 9 Inch Diffused Focus F - 4 Lens with Studio Shutter mounted on lens board and Packard shutter for $306 (300844381301) ... Shutters not tested

Like new looking Dallmeyer 2A London Patent #39451 for $2516 (BIN,160951018570)

Wollensak Verito soft focus portrait lens 9", f/4.5 for $500. On lens board, nice looking. (200875694665)

Very nice looking Cooke brass portrait lens 16", f/5.6 Series VI for $3050 (200875660503)

Graf Variable f/3.8-4.5 lens. with (EF) is 11-12.5 in. Very nice looking with original brochure for $2025 (200875653827)

Ligny (Meuse) Anachromatique 385mm f5 soft focus portrait brass lens for $818 (281047805138)

Wollensak Vitax No. 4 Soft Focus Portrait Lens f3,8 for $780 (121046766290) ... in barrel, on lens board with Packard shutter. Internal lens clouded.

Watching "trends" which are as fickle as a 3-some of junior high school girls, it looks like a great time to buy a Verito. Check out the "Verito Post" (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?25518-Verito-Picture-Post) for some fabulous examples of what this lens is capable of doing. Still a favorite, and I have a full set, save the 9" which someone talked me out of.

[Mark Sawyer]

The Graf Variable was described as coated. I believe B & J marketed this model post-war? Far above previous listed achieved prices.

Perhaps this and the early Cooke series VI 16" should have a star (*) mark in the sales register to indicate "known" provenance (owner or user).
The Alt collection photo shows that they are selling the items nearest the camera first! A lot of these are not softies, I suppose.

B&J coated early lenses for resale. I have a 16" f/4.5 Cooke Portrait they coated, and though I had my doubts about it at first, after one use it became a "keep-it-forever" lens. Collectors may have different priorities than uses, though...

I don't know what to think of the Patrick Alt lenses. The 9" Verito from his collection went for $500, at or below market value for a nice clean example. The 16" f/5.6 Cooke and 14" f/5 Conley (a rebranded Vesta, and not sf) from Alt's collection went at double or more what I would guess at market value, considering that these were originally the slower, cheaper lenses from their manufacturers. But still fine lenses.

[Mark Sawyer]

Watching "trends" which are as fickle as a 3-some of junior high school girls, it looks like a great time to buy a Verito. Check out the "Verito Post" (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?25518-Verito-Picture-Post) for some fabulous examples of what this lens is capable of doing. Still a favorite, and I have a full set, save the 9" which someone talked me out of.


Agreed! I need to get back to using mine on film soon. The big ones are still getting the respect they deserve:


Wollensak Verito Diffused Lens 18in f=4 with Studio 5 shutter on Packard Shutter for $1,405 (321051125960) on lensboard with extra Packard shutter.

[CCHarrison]

<<Graf Variable f/3.8-4.5 lens. with (EF) is 11-12.5 in. Very nice looking with original brochure for $2025 (200875653827)>>>

Over $ 2,000 for a Graf ? Ouch. Even coated with box, its almost triple the average price for used Graf SF lenses.... The ebay ad was great which certainly added to the price, but in my opinion, the final price was pretty steep.

Dan

[Amedeus]

Two in two days ... another quite steep Graf Variable Anastigmat 14-16in f/3.8-4.5 for $1100 (BIN, 370722459779) ... small nick on front element, flange included

[uphereinmytree]

9 1/2" velostigmat with fuzz and in rough condition for 700+ ??? ebay# 121049603487

[Jon Wilson]

9 1/2" velostigmat with fuzz and in rough condition for 700+ ??? ebay# 121049603487
In reading the Seller's description, he stated essentially that since this was an early production lens versus the later production lens it would be "softer". This was attributed to the photography communities demand for sharper portrait lens as the years passed. This struck me as odd for as far as I recall, Wollensak would change their lens names or series designations instead of changing their glass and leaving the name/model on the lens the same. Am I mistaken in thinking this for the Wollensak Soft Focus Velostigmat?

[Jim Galli]

In reading the Seller's description, he stated essentially that since this was an early production lens versus the later production lens it would be "softer". This was attributed to the photography communities demand for sharper portrait lens as the years passed. This struck me as odd for as far as I recall, Wollensak would change their lens names or series designations instead of changing their glass and leaving the name/model on the lens the same. Am I mistaken in thinking this for the Wollensak Soft Focus Velostigmat?

Jon, you read it on the internet, so it must be true. Now we know that "early" Velo's are more desirable than late Velo's.

[goamules]

Jon, you read it on the internet, so it must be true. Now we know that "early" Velo's are more desirable than late Velo's.

Ha!

[Mark Sawyer]

Just to clear it up for anyone running across this, the Velostigmat II with the optional diffusion ring isn't really a soft lens unless you modify it. And no, the earlier ones were not softer than the later versions. This one went for a lot because it had the much sought after ebay-seller-hype. :p

[Jon Wilson]

Jon, you read it on the internet, so it must be true. Now we know that "early" Velo's are more desirable than late Velo's.
LOL you are killing me Jim. Thanks I appreciate the laugh!

[cyberjunkie]

And no, the earlier ones were not softer than the later versions. This one went for a lot because it had the much sought after ebay-seller-hype. :p

If the final price is so affected by the oversize blurb of some vendors, i think we can safely assume that MANY buyers don't do their homework before buying...
Other way some dubious assertions would work against te seller.
Probably we should condone a safe, almost physiological, amount of hype, especially from pro sellers, but i really can't stand some practices.
Probably i will stop searching both title and description, because the same seller is a champion of keyword spamming!
I see the same auction coming up a dozen times.... that's really too much.
I have seen the same projection triplet mushrooming on each and every of my memorized SF searches. :(

[Paul Fitzgerald]

" Jon, you read it on the internet, so it must be true. Now we know that "early" Velo's are more desirable than late Velo's."

Just like early(w/hood), late(wo/hood) and modern(Dynar) Heliars

"In reading the Seller's description, he stated essentially that since this was an early production lens versus the later production lens it would be "softer". This was attributed to the photography communities demand for sharper portrait lens as the years passed."

There actually are early and late(post WWI) Velostigmats and they ARE different. Wollensak moved their factory so the threads and spacing are different, they may not thread together. They also changed the optical fomula so you can not mix&match early and late cells. I think the change was do to patents after the war.

[Mark Sawyer]

There actually are early and late(post WWI) Velostigmats and they ARE different. Wollensak moved their factory so the threads and spacing are different, they may not thread together. They also changed the optical fomula so you can not mix&match early and late cells. I think the change was do to patents after the war.[/QUOTE]

Wollensak changed housings, spacings and grinds a number of times on the Velostigmat Series II, and on some of their other lenses. But I have earlier and later diffusing Velostigmat II's than the one in question, and the diffusion effect on all of them is the same, virtually undetectable after refocusing. With the "uncorking" option, it's not that big a deal, as the new user can have wide range of softness to choose from. But the information about earlier versions being softer is erroneous by my direct experience.

[Emil Schildt]

Dallmeyer 3.B

$2,339

Item number:130834533400

[pierre506]

Brass Dallmeyer 3B
$2325
251215132861

[Jim Galli]

Well, I didn't get the Kino Plasticca (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300847504779&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:3160) but I surely cost Mr. Berliner an extra $390 bucks in his quest.

$723.78 for an 85mm f2.7 Oscar Zwierzina Plasticca + $45 to ship from Russia. I was serious but Geoffrey was more so.

I wanted to dangle it in front of the Nikon, of course.

[Steven Tribe]

Not strictly large format - but very interesting, nevertheless!

Worth listing in the sales register, too - so we have a permanent record that such items exists.

I gave searching for Plasticca months ago, as I got just got "plastic" return from the e**y search.

[Jim Galli]

Not strictly large format - but very interesting, nevertheless!

Worth listing in the sales register, too - so we have a permanent record that such items exists.

I gave searching for Plasticca months ago, as I got just got "plastic" return from the e**y search.

The ebay search machine is abominable. Every change they make renders it worse! I don't remember how I found that lens in the first place. Perhaps it was a search other items by same seller. That should be a $350 dollar lens. A couple of nutballs drove up the price. I was one of them. It's just a simple achromat. Nothing special.

[Amedeus]

Nice looking Hermagis eidoscope 150mm f/4.5 with compur shutter for $999 (200880042964)

Good looking SOM BERTHIOT Eidoscope 275mm f/4.5 with flange for $1,035 (251215126304)

TAYLOR HOBSON Cooke 10.5in f/4.5 Series II Portrait Anastigmat Soft Focus lens knuckle version with flange for $1,612 (170975080050)

Early Series II Soft Focus Cooke Taylor Taylor & Hobson 10.4 Inch f/4.5 for $1,375 (350689148591), no flange but includes lens cap and leather lens case

Taylor Hobson Cooke 13" f/5.6 Soft Focus Portrait Lens Series VI, Packard shutter and lens board for $952 (281049671271)

[Jody_S]

Not strictly large format - but very interesting, nevertheless!

Worth listing in the sales register, too - so we have a permanent record that such items exists.

I gave searching for Plasticca months ago, as I got just got "plastic" return from the e**y search.

Try searching for: "plasticca -plastic" (without the quotation marks). I found the completed sale in about 3 seconds.

[Jon Wilson]

7 inch Wollensak Hyperion..836 pounds +/_ $1300. Appears to be a nice Hyperion lens. Just could not afford if. Ugh!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-LENS-GUNDLACH-MANHATTAN-OPT-CO-NY-HYPERION-DIFFUSION-SANDS-HUNTER-/230915306666

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Wow, this sold fast! I guess someone here should have jumped on this!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140911187760&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

[cyberjunkie]

If somebody didn't take notice, i posted an inquiry about a Kern Soft Focus Portrait Lens.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=99565
Prvate sale. If somebody is interested i can ask about the price, but i don't think it would be very relevant as an indication of market value (my friend is not into SF lenses, must have been a lucky find).

cheers

Paolo

[Emil Schildt]

If somebody didn't take notice, i posted an inquiry about a Kern Soft Focus Portrait Lens.
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=99565
Prvate sale. If somebody is interested i can ask about the price, but i don't think it would be very relevant as an indication of market value (my friend is not into SF lenses, must have been a lucky find).

cheers

Paolo

I'll be interested in hearing about it. Looks fun!

[evan clarke]

The ebay search machine is abominable. Every change they make renders it worse! I don't remember how I found that lens in the first place. Perhaps it was a search other items by same seller. That should be a $350 dollar lens. A couple of nutballs drove up the price. I was one of them. It's just a simple achromat. Nothing special.


I found the Kino by searching Plasticca and I got my 300mm Plasticca the same way. If there's one there, I think it'll bring it up. I don't search it more than 20 times a day 8).. Want a long one..

[ghostcount]

Yowza! 140911700472 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/140911700472;jsessionid=A893AE33F092EBCCDF31FF6F435CE4CA?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D140911700472%26_rdc%3D1)

Legend has it it's got a twin and just as pretty.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Yowza! 140911700472 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/140911700472;jsessionid=A893AE33F092EBCCDF31FF6F435CE4CA?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D140911700472%26_rdc%3D1)

Legend has it it's got a twin and just as pretty.

I posted the link to this above but looks like no one noticed. Now this is a lens. I know the seller and have seen this beauty. Still some deep pockets out there.

[Jim Galli]

I posted the link to this above but looks like no one noticed. Now this is a lens. I know the seller and have seen this beauty. Still some deep pockets out there.

Did it sell? Looked to me like the listing ended . . . unsold. I can't even think about something like this. Way way way out of my reach, unless I get lucky some time and trip over one in an old building.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Jim, yes it sold. I know the seller. It was listed here. It is staying in the states. It is a beautiful work of art and a fine investement for someone. I had the pleasure of looking through it on a Century 8A.

[Jon Wilson]

12 inch Karl Struss pictoral lens just sold for $5166. That is amazing, at least to me. Thankfully my 9.5 inch Struss was purchased for a fraction of that. Eddie, you still have your 18 inch Struss?

[jp]

12 inch Karl Struss pictoral lens just sold for $5166. That is amazing, at least to me. Thankfully my 9.5 inch Struss was purchased for a fraction of that. Eddie, you still have your 18 inch Struss?

271143355753

That is amazing. "Your search returned 0 items" didn't show in my list of Ebay Saved Searches the other day, and I couldn't resist windowshopping it. To me, that's too much $ to enjoy using, and you'd have to use it regularly to get the skills of a hundred-year-ago photo secession member.

[goamules]

That Struss Pictorial is only the 3rd I've ever seen come for auction on Ebay in 5 years. It's an amazing lens, made by an amazing icon of soft focus photography and cinematography. So many soft focus lenses came later, but the Struss and the Pinkhams and a couple others started it all.

[CCHarrison]

Here are the previous sales of Struss lenses I have recorded at my page http://antiquecameras.net/softfocuslenssales.html

88474


Doesnt shock me it sold for that much - these are typically found in rough condition and this one looks complete and nice !

Dan

[Hugo Zhang]

I wonder how many people put a bid through ez sniper based on that information and got blown away without even seeing a trace of their bids except an email notice from the sniping service....

[Jim Galli]

....and you'd have to use it regularly to get the skills of a hundred-year-ago photo secession member.

Surprisingly, you'd find it a very easy lens to get lovely results from. No long arduous learning curve.

I have no. 1018 in like or better condition. Anyone want it for $5500. Now's your chance.

[Amedeus]

Doesnt shock me it sold for that much - these are typically found in rough condition and this one looks complete and nice !

Dan

+1