What is wrong

[Steve33]

Hi,

Newbie seeking your help. Took my Chamonix, shot couple of sheets. I get this result. Is it a film flatness issue or I am not careful enough when I close the film holder once I took the picture? How can I avoid this kind of results? Thanks. Steve

[Brian Ellis]

It doesn't look like a film flatness problem, that would cause things to look out of focus but that isn't your problem. Looks more like light coming in from the base of the holder (since the film was reversed in the camera). Is it possible that you didn't have the holder seated properly in the camera? I don't know, I'm not very good at diagnosing these kinds of things but that would be my best guess. Is this the only image that had the problem?

[Merg Ross]

My guess is that the holder was not covered with a darkcloth when the darkslide was pulled and reinserted. A very good habit is to cover the groundhlass and holder in such cases. The fogging most likely resulted on reinseretion of the darkslide.

[MIke Sherck]

In the past I have had negatives look like that when the film holder was not completely seated into the camera's film back. If you look closely at the end of the holder with the flaps (opposite the end with the dark slide,) you'll see a slight ridge running across the holder. This is a light trap, which fits into a corresponding trough in the back of the camera, when you slide the film holder under the ground glass. Sometimes it takes a little effort to get the film holder seated all the way; after you've inserted the holder, take a quick look at how it fits under the ground glass. In most cameras, it's pretty obvious that it isn't in all the way if that's the problem.

The other easy mistake to make is inserting the dark slide between the film holder and the film back, instead of into the slot in the film holder, after you've taken the photo and are putting the dark slide back in. That causes a leak like this at this end of the film holder. Since I see no sign of film notches in the good end of the negative, I assume that they were on the end which got blasted, which points to the first idea, above, not this one,.

As previously mentioned, it's also possible that this is sunlight blasting past the light traps which supposedly seal the slot the dark slide slides into, in the end of the film holder. Personally, new film holder or ancient, I've never trusted these light traps and make ever effort to avoid ever pointing the end of a film holder with the dark slides anywhere close to directly at the sun. I go so far, in most cases, as to pull the dark slide, make the exposure, and replace the slide, with the focusing cloth hanging over the back of the camera, covering the film holder. I'm just not a trusting soul, I guess! Although to be honest, whenever I've had a light leak of this nature it wasn't so consistant over the entire end of the film: in my experience, some parts of the light trap work and some don't, usually at the corners. I usually get bright rays crossing the film, starting from one corner or the other. As I sad before, though, this looks like a light leak at the flap end of the film holder, not at the dark slide end. I just mention this because it's possible that you cropped the film notches out in the scan.

I suppose that it's also possible that you didn't get the dark slide seated all the way into the holder after you loaded film and light entered at the bottom of the holder there, or the slide came partially (even very slightly will do,) pulled out sometime between the time you loaded the film holder and unloaded in for development.

If this is just a "one-off" and not happening to more than the first couple of negatives, it's just a boo-boo, the purpose of which is to help you remember to pay attention in the future! We all have plenty of opportunities to re-learn this lesson over the course of time. Have fun and good luck!

Mike

[Vaughn]

Be sure that you pull the dark slide straight out -- you might have pulled it a little towards the back, causing some light to sneak in between the back of the camera and the film holder.

We need a little more info that showing the entire neg (including the rebate) would have provided.

Vaughn

[Frank Petronio]

Your film holder isn't seated properly.

If it were a film flatness issue it would simply be out of focus, not fogged/lighter. And it would just a tiny bit out of focus at that.

[Ken Lee]

It's a good practice to squeeze the back of the camera tightly against the film holder with your thumb and index finger, whenever inserting or removing the dark slide.

Keep the camera back sealed at all times. The slightest jiggle can break the seal. All it takes is a fraction of a second, and a fraction of a millimeter, and the light comes in, as you've seen.

[ww129]

I guess the problem was caused by the dark slide. In case it is not possible to cover with darkcloth when pulling or inserting the dark slide, try at least doing so from the bottom as a safety precaution. It's because light usually comes from the top, there is always a possibility of slight fogging through the neck of the holders when the dark slide is moved.

Just my 2 cents.

[mandoman7]

The 6 preceding guesses are very good, although I would say that if your holder is that leaky at the darkslide opening, leaving the dark cloth on during exposure is not going to help very much. Also when there is a leak at the time of exposure, it usually gives more streaking on the upper, more sunlit side, and doesn't spread quite so evenly as the shown image. One corner would have more exposure typically. So I'm guessing that it could be in the loading or handling before shooting as well.

[David Aimone]

The chamonix is a great camera, but when first using it I found it very easy to unknowingly pull the back off the camera slightly when reinserting the darkslide. I am now very mindful when I do this that the camera back doesn't pull away at all. It's held there by spring like tension, and is easy to move if you're not careful.

That's my guess...fwiw

[Vaughn]

...So I'm guessing that it could be in the loading or handling before shooting as well.

Which is why I would like to see the entire sheet of film -- it would help to determine if the fogging occurred during loading the film vs while the holder was in the camera.

I doubt that that much fogging would happen via the light trap when the dark slide has been removed. Rarely (but possible) are the holders' light trap that bad.

Vaughn

[GPS]

You have already received good answers (Mike, Ken). I would warn you against the idea to leave the dark cloth on the standard during exposure. It is the best way how to introduce unwanted vibrations to the camera with a wind moving the cloth. Not to speak about the negative effect of the cloth's weight on the standard.

[Steve M Hostetter]

you just were to rough when you handled the darkslide and at some point,, taking it out or putting it back in you lifted the film holder ever so slighly which caused this leak.

I've done it enough to know this is what happens:D

Go slower when you handle the darkslide and while you are handling it while it's in the camera you need to pinch the groundglass holder tight to the film holder,,when removing the darkslide and returning back into the film holder..

someone mentioned sun leaks through the holder having no darkslide inside it,,, I never had a 4x5 do this but with 11x14 I always take the darkslide out while I'm under the darkcloth ,,keeping the darkcloth over the camera back and film holder as I make the exposure and untill I get the darkslide back into the holder.

[Steve33]

Thanks to all for your answer. I will try to be more careful with the darkslide.

[al olson]

The 6 preceding guesses are very good, although I would say that if your holder is that leaky at the darkslide opening, leaving the dark cloth on during exposure is not going to help very much. Also when there is a leak at the time of exposure, it usually gives more streaking on the upper, more sunlit side, and doesn't spread quite so evenly as the shown image. One corner would have more exposure typically. So I'm guessing that it could be in the loading or handling before shooting as well.

I agree that the cause could be in the handling of the film, either loading the holder or from the holder to the process.

Assuming you load the film into the holder the normal way with the notches at the flap end (and, when in the camera, the dark slide is removed from the right -- not the left) then the streaking is from that flap end ... not a dark slide/light trap problem.

If the streaking is caused by the holder not being seated properly (or unseated while handling the dark slide), usually there is a narrow unfogged area where the edge of the holder throws a shadow from the fogging light source. I don't see that here either.

As Vaughn says, it would be useful to look at the whole negative. If your rebate is also fogged, then it is unlikely that it was fogged while the film was in the holder. Thus I would lean toward it being caused by a film handling error.

[Louie Powell]

This is a fogging problem. There are several possible explanations:

1. I wouild assume that you had the camera set up such that the darkslide pulled from the right side of the camera. One explanation is that the light seals in the holder have failed, and light was able to get in through the open end of the holder to fog the film. You shouldn't have to put the dark cloth over the camera for every exposure, but if the sun is shinning directly on the camera and potentially into the open dark slide opening, draping the cloth over the camera may be helpful.

2. Another possiblity is that the holder wasn't seated properly onto the back of the camera. I have had this problem using a Polaroid 405 holder - the darkslide handle is very short, and on my camera there is a tendency for it to be wedged against the back of the camera. My fingers are fat (actually, that's not all that's fat), and when I try to fit my fingers under the handle, I tend to pull the holder away from the camera.

3. I the fogged area was on the hing side of the holder, it is possible that you didn't push the darkslide all the way into the holder after making the exposure, and when you removed it from the camera, light was able to get into the holder through the slit between the hinge and darkslide.

[Steve33]

I have checked the sheets again, and the fogging comes from the notches side (at the flap end). I am pretty sure I loaded the sheets the proper way i.e. complete darkness and the notches at the flap end. Could it really be during sliding the darkslide? I don't see how fogging can happen at the flap end unless...

[al olson]

I have checked the sheets again, and the fogging comes from the notches side (at the flap end). I am pretty sure I loaded the sheets the proper way i.e. complete darkness and the notches at the flap end. Could it really be during sliding the darkslide? I don't see how fogging can happen at the flap end unless...

Steve, do you have any fogging on the rebate? These are the edges of the film that are covered by the film holder. They should be clear.

[Steve33]

Yes I do have fogging on the rebate starting from the notches side then it becomes white in the middle of the sheet.

[ROL]

I think the answer to the problem you've described will most likely be found among the great advice you've already received. However, if not, you might also want to look post-exposure/processing (which you have not described as of yet), and this (http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/news/film#tripleboxes).

[al olson]

Okay, this suggests that the fogging occurred when the film was not in the holder.

This implies a handling error (I would rule out a batch problem unless similar fogging occurs on more than one sheet).

Think carefully when you were handling the film whether there was a possibility for any stray light. This includes when you were loading the film holders and also when you transferred the film from the holder to the developer.

The fogging may also have occurred at a previous time when you were loading the holders. You may have flipped on a light before you had the film box closed up tight.

Were you handling the film near dim lights such as timers or luminescent strips? Do you have light leaking around a door? Luminescent watch dial? This usually has no effect unless it is in close contact with the film.

Were there any intermediate steps such as transferring the film temporarily from the holder to a box (2 section or three section)?

How did you develop the film? Tray? Tank? Jobo? ...? Were the lids on tight? Was other film affected similarly?

From the appearance of the fogging streaks the rest of the sheet must have been in the shadow of the light source.

As you can tell from my questions I have done most of the things mentioned above. Best wishes in solving the problem.