oh so new it hurts...help... 10x8 madness

[newboybobby]

Evening all..

I'm a snapper by trade up north in sunny scotland and am now diving in to large format for the first time...previously a 35mm/120mm boy.

I'm looking for some expert advice on what, when, where and how.....maybe why?

Bascially I want to shoot a portraits project on 8x10 or 10x8? (which is it?)....B/W...basic old school....outdoors...insitu portraits...i think..

I need a hardy 10x8 plate camera that is easy to use in the field and will with stand some serious use and abuse....outside...in rail, hail, snow, sea spray etc etc.
I also need a standard portrait lens for 10x8 to go with it....is that 300mm or 210mm....?

I've no idea really...of brand, style, make , model etc etc....as i said I'm so new it hurts. I've been all over t'internet to find a wealth of conflicting advice...so far i've worked out that i think i need a 10x8 field camera...with either of the above lenses..and some plates..or dark slides sorry...oh and a big tripod....some 10x8 film...some nuns nickers....a big wallet....strong shoulders....er....help

So answers on a post card please...

Thanks very much for all or any help!

Best wishes

Rob

[Lachlan 717]

Rob,

You'll find 300mm lenses that cover 8x10 easily and (relatively) cheap. In terms of their "magnification", they're roughly a normal lens.

On the other hand, 210mm for 8x10 are much harder to find, and will tend to be much more expensive. It is also a wide angle lens for 8x10.

Either lens will be large if you get it in f5.6 guise.

Why 8x10? It's a great format, but it is big. And the range of products (including range of films) seems not to be as wide.

Have you considered 4x5?

[Steve Hamley]

So you're going to shoot portraits outside in rain, hail, snow, and sea spray? When you find subjects that hold up and look good in these conditions, then worry about the gear!

More seriously, the lens and shutter is more of an issue than the camera. Field cameras can be easily wiped down, cleaned, lubed, etc after exposure to the elements, coated glass and delicate shutter parts are another story.

For your conditions as stated, I'd look at a Wehman 8x10. Bruce said the last time he got back from a western trip his was really dirty so he hosed it off with a garden hose.

http://www.wehmancamera.com/camera.html

Cheers, Steve

[Tobias Key]

I'm by no means a large format expert but I think you could buy a 4 man tent big enough to stand up in a shoot for about £200. You could pitch that in 20 mins set up your camera inside it and then shoot. I think that would be a lot easier than finding a weather proof 10x8.

[brian mcweeney]

Definitely get some nun's nickers ... and then show us in the states what they look like!

[BrianShaw]

Definitely get some nun's nickers ... and then show us in the states what they look like!

The very thought makes me queasy; the sight of them might make us blind.

[BrianShaw]

... and to the intent of the thread...

as Lachlan said, have you considered 4x5?

[brian mcweeney]

Definitely get some nun's nickers ... and then show us in the states what they look like!

Never mind. B&H has them:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/660866-REG/Genus_GL_GARD_NK_GARD_NK_Universal_Donut_Nun_s.html

[BrianShaw]

Oh... I had something else in mind. Pardon me.

[BrianShaw]

like this:

http://images0.cpcache.com/product/skull-nun-kool/296770730v2_225x225_Front.jpg

[Wade D]

4x5 is much more practical for portraits unless you want to contact print from 8x10. The film selection is better for 4x5. Enlargers are also plentiful for very low prices for 4x5.

[Jim Galli]

Look for a vintage Kodak 2D in 10X8. They're cheap (in a relative way), and the front buttress is strong enough to hold some of the best old portrait lenses. Start with one of Her Majesties' air ministry 14" f5.6 lenses (http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Portraits/CocaCola14AnastigCookeS.jpg). The one that has serial starting with TT. It's a Cooke Aviar. One of the best ever. Find a 6 1/2" Packard to go inside the Kodak (http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Article_About_Packard_Shutters.html) and you'll be in business. Don't let 'em talk you into a 4X5. 10X8 is grand.


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/1929_Phaeton/Glens1929/GlenPortraitCooke_1s.jpg
glen's new car

Done with 10X8 Kodak and 13" Cooke Series IV

[Pete Watkins]

I'll go along with Jim, 8x10 is far better for portraits. For one thing when the sitter sees you standing next to a decent sized camera they get a sense of ocassion and tend to take more notice of what you're telling them (especially kids). One thing to watch is that some of the old cameras don't have front tilt, this is no problem with portraits but I would not be happy doing landscapes without this movement. They're all gonna jump on me now but that's my opinion!
As for film Foma 100 is reasonably priced and I really like it. The makers claim that it's O.K. at 200 (see AG photographic and Silverprints sites for information).
240mm G-Clarons come shuttered in most instancies and are not too bad for price. I've never owned one but I'd love a commercial Ektar, they have a great reputation as portrait lenses.
One last word of warning, beware of cads in South London. U.K. shooters will know what I mean.
Pete.

[Steven Tribe]

Jim, As all the 14A/xyz AM objectives were made between the reigns of Victoria and Elizabeth II, it should be "His Majesties'" rather than "Her Majesties'"! At least, I don't think there are many after 1952.

In the old world (Scotland incuded), there are not a lot of the excellent Kodak 2D models around. Apart from those that have crossed the Atlantic during e**y era. But Kodak (UK) did make a series which included at least 5x4 and 7x5 - I think this was in the time period 1930's - 1950's. They look very well-built. These may have been in larger sizes, too? Apart from these, most large format cameras series in the UK were prestigious items from Gandolfi etc. rather than work horses like Ansco/Kodak Eastman.

[Andrew Plume]

I'll go along with Jim, 8x10 is far better for portraits. For one thing when the sitter sees you standing next to a decent sized camera they get a sense of ocassion and tend to take more notice of what you're telling them (especially kids). One thing to watch is that some of the old cameras don't have front tilt, this is no problem with portraits but I would not be happy doing landscapes without this movement. They're all gonna jump on me now but that's my opinion!
As for film Foma 100 is reasonably priced and I really like it. The makers claim that it's O.K. at 200 (see AG photographic and Silverprints sites for information).
240mm G-Clarons come shuttered in most instancies and are not too bad for price. I've never owned one but I'd love a commercial Ektar, they have a great reputation as portrait lenses.
One last word of warning, beware of cads in South London. U.K. shooters will know what I mean.
Pete.

Rob

As Peter has (imho) rightly said 2D's are great for portraits (which is why Jim (who does great portrait work) loves them) but not what you need for landscapes and other subjects, unless you're satisfied with a 'straight ahead' look - having said that Ken Lee (whose work is posted on here) has done some excellent landscapes with a 2D

...............cads in South london, well (and I have to be careful since this is a public forum) there's a wee amount of mileage in that statement - having said that the camera store (more a warehouse) has a veritable stock of quirky items - you just have to be an experienced buyer and visit them beforehand - I did a post on the UK Large Format Forum two days ago on second hand stores generally and I included that store in that post, so you may want to have a look at that

The late Yousuf Karsh, if I recall rightly used Commercial Ektar's for his portrait work - that's a decent endorsement.....................

Rob - I'll send you a pm with some allied thoughts

andrew

[cosmicexplosion]

get a calumet 810 or 108 as i prefer as that is the sacred number from all rosary and meditaion beads around the world from buddists to hindu's to abbots coincidently, just ask you nun before you take her nickers.
any way
calmut C-1 seem to be the most bomb proof i have come accross and is their reputation.
but a little more expensive, but who cares its only money and your scottish, grand!
lenses well you cant argue with that photo up there a thousands words no less.
but soem advice was given me was use paper negatives made from proccessing paper to start as is simple and you dont need an enlarger just a piece of glass a light and some chemicals
oh and some darkness
look forward to your work scottland is rich in images history and crazy blue bastards on magic mushrooms, maybe that will help?

[newboybobby]

Many thanks for all your help and tips….and the comedy.
Nuns nickers = a changing bag…keep it clean people!
I’ll ponder all that info and do some more research.
More info if your interested…
It’s a 10x8 project or nothing chaps! I want big bold, messy, tricky and the real deal. I want to feel like a photographer again, bored with being a digital monkey for clients. I’ll learn the ropes as soon as ….no bother there. So bollocks to 5x4, 4x5…5x6, 6x7..etc etc…no offence if that’s your bag! Looking to process myself also…..easy tiger!
The project is straight out of the “Avedon” hand book I’m afraid and I make no bones about that. Is it original…no…is it unique…probably not….but I think it’s valid…hence that’s all I need.
So essentially it’s a 10x8 field camera and portrait lens I need, I’ll worry about landscapes options another day.
I’m currently looking at UK made Field cameras…a john nesbitt and garibaldi bros…(?)…you know who I mean…anyone else I should consider? I really would like UK made…shop local and all that. No offence to any other brands, or nationalities.
I also want a camera with personality….not an off the self new boy…I want some history and soul. It might be heavier or tricky to use…but fuck it…I want soul brothers!
As for the lens….I want one that’s going to do the job….sharp as you like…robust…trustworthy. Also one that I can clean well….it sounds like a 300mm/360mm Symmar Schneider is about right.....?...any thoughts?

And finally…
Re The weather - Billy Connelly Quote. In Scotland, there is no such thing as bad weather - only the wrong clothes
Re: Tent – it’s outdoor or not all.
Steve – love the hose down story….very rock n roll!
Jim – Nice pic….go 10x8!
Comic – balls to calumet…they have had far too much of my money already…amen!
Andrew – will email you.

Many thanks all....esp for being nice to the newboy!

Cheers
Rob

[newboybobby]

opps i forgot to mention that i also want my cake and i want to be able to eat it!

[Lachlan 717]

Seems like you didn't need to post your original question given your last couple of responses...

[newboybobby]

Seems like you didn't need to post your original question given your last couple of responses...

i was waiting for someone to sour the dough....thanks to Lachlan for getting that out of the way.

All other previous comments were very helpful in forming my last post..i thank you again.

Rob

[newboybobby]

"Always happy to assist an ingrate" Lachlan 617
'This message has been deleted by Lachlan 617. Reason: I shouldn't call people ingrates."

why oh why oh why?

I did question my need to post on a forum such as this....and why was that...because you always get someone who turns it into a bitchy little argument...and why? I never did understand...are they bored, unemployed, do they feel need to bully, to argue....

in·grate   [in-greyt]
–noun
1.
an ungrateful person.
–adjective
2.
Archaic . ungrateful.

How many times did i say thank you to all members for there comments and tips?

Lachlan 617...i thank you again for your comment and thank you again for convincing me that posting on here was a huge mistake...

there is always one...

Thanks again

Rob

[Fotoguy20d]

Complete newbie to 8x10, so what do I know, but I've got to throw in my 2 cents for the 2D - a great camera for portrait work. I just started with mine at a living history event this past weekend. A sampling of comments - "is that a reproduction?", "does it work?", "who do you think you are, Matthew Brady?", "you need to get one of these" (as a Nikon D_SLR got waved in my face).

Here's a first effort - 240mm Goerz Dagor onto Ilford MG IV paper.

Whatever you decide, enjoy!
Dan

[newboybobby]

Dan...cheers fella.

I'll defo look at 2D.

Great pic...

Go Matthew Brady....my surname is Brady....it's in the genes i tell you.

Rob

[Rui Morais de Sousa]

Beeing british and wishing to go british, I believe there is only one real option for you: GANDOLFI!
That's the road I went for 8x10 (or 10x8, as you wish) and I never regretted it.
It will survive Scotland...
Cheers,
Rui
AL-MOST-LY PHOTOGRAPHY (http://ruimoraisdesousa.blogspot.com/)