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KyledeC
7-Aug-2010, 14:53
Hello

So I am interested in buying an Arca Swiss Field. Currently I am photographing with a Sinar F. I like the Sinar, but it is very difficult to do any extensive traveling with it by foot. I have seen and played around with the Arca, and I really love the way the camera feels and operates. And I especially love how the camera folds down like a field camera but has the movements and controls of a view camera. So I am wondering if there is anything about Arca that I should be aware of that may deter me from spending such a large amount of money to buy one. Also on average how costly are the parts and accessories for the Arca, things like lens boards and bellows.

Thank you greatly

SW Rick
7-Aug-2010, 15:46
Sent you a PM

memorris
7-Aug-2010, 15:59
I have an Arca Field and pack it frequently as well as using it in the studio. It is light weight and very useable. Sometimes I wish more of the movements were geared but there is a weight penalty to pay for that. Given the option again I would buy another Arca field.

Darren H
7-Aug-2010, 17:46
Arca-Swiss is a great brand. The F-Field may be the best field monorail there is. About as compact as one can get with a monorail. But it is still bigger than a field camera. I have the Arca-Swiss Discovery. It has the 171mm standards (both are) and not the smaller front standard like the field. I swapped out to a folding rail like the F-Field has and the 110 boards via the adapter giving me a camera similar is size and bulk to what you are looking at. I can pack it. Here it is in a LowePro Photo Trekker
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50965440@N08/4805402470/

Remember though that an Arca is bulkier than a folding field camera because of the rail and with some of the newer fields like the Chamonix it is heavier too. However if you can handle the bulk it is an outstanding unit in the field.

The accessories are pricier. Note many special items are preorder and wait. They are of the finest quality.

BTW- simce you live in Arizona you can check with Photomark in Phoenix as they are one of the few dealers of Arca-Swiss.

You can see images of it in the field on my blog linked below.

You have picked a winner!

Good luck!

KyledeC
7-Aug-2010, 21:12
Thank you Darren! I really appreciate your advice and help. I do know of photomark. Rod Klukas the large format specialist actually is the one who turned me on to the Arca. And he is the one who would be selling me the camera. You provided me with some great insight, so thank you!

-Kyle

Robert Fisher
7-Aug-2010, 22:52
Kyle, your Sinar F is at least as good and probably superior to the light weight, flimsy and over priced Arcas. If your goal is to produce images, why not: (1) keep your Sinar; (2) buy additional quality glass; (3) buy an 810 Sinar for big negs/positives, and; (4) buy a quality Chamonix 57 or 58 for a light weight solution.

BTW, I have owned new 45 & 810 Orbix Arcas. IMO they are great $800 to $1,200 camera bodies but obviously grossly inferior to Sinar P/P2's.

Best of luck!

Rust Never Sleeps
7-Aug-2010, 22:57
I have a AS 45 Field [141] and good God I could not imagine using another camera. The thing is a absolute joy to use. From wide [47-90] to long [300+] the thing handles them all with ease. Has a expensive but very well thought out and well built lens hood that is fast and easy to use. Not too heavy and small for a fully featured monorail. Packs a little bulky with dead space but that is easily filled with stuff [filters, meters, dust rockets, loupes, etc]. I have never had problems with the screen and far as focusing and brightness is concerned. Millimeter markings on the rail are very useful. Focusing and movements are smooth. Level bubbles are very useful and it is very easy and fast to level the camera, and also to use indirect rise or fall. Back rise is nice and I use it a lot more than I thought i would.

If you get the camera I would get the geared axis tilt [orbix, I think it is called]. Very very useful. In Jack Dykinga's Large Format book he says he uses back tilt more often than front, but while I like the distortion of back tilt on some shots, I don't on others. On those I quickly focus using front axis tilt. Usually focus on infinity and tilt for the foreground and see what happens depending on the plane of the crap in front of me and then go from there.

Along with the AS, I was considering a Ebony 45S or 45SU, great cameras but I am glad I went with the 4x5 Field. It feels very good to have a camera that gets out of the way and just lets you focus on shooting.

Got the thing from Rod at Photomark before the price increase because of the crappy value of the almighty US dollar a few years ago. Good Luck.

Rust Never Sleeps
7-Aug-2010, 23:29
Kyle, your Sinar F is at least as good and probably superior to the light weight, flimsy and over priced Arcas. If your goal is to produce images, why not: (1) keep your Sinar; (2) buy additional quality glass; (3) buy an 810 Sinar for big negs/positives, and; (4) buy a quality Chamonix 57 or 58 for a light weight solution.

BTW, I have owned new 45 & 810 Orbix Arcas. IMO they are great $800 to $1,200 camera bodies but obviously grossly inferior to Sinar P/P2's.

Best of luck!


Ha, good luck with a back surgery every couple of years hauling a Sinar around. Wonderful studio or on location cameras but to hike or backpack with the thing is a joke and you might as well pack cast iron pans with you too.

The Chamonix cameras look nice but a picky person could find faults with them too or any camera for that matter. Didn't they have a focusing issue??

I agree the prices are a little steep on the Arca-Swiss cameras and accessories but in my opinion are worth it. Hell, if you want overpriced look at Linhof or better yet the joke that is Hasselblad. Also some price increases are due to the weak US dollar compared to the euro. I haven't check the rates in a while though.

Hey KyledeC, since you are lucky to have a A-S dealer near by and you can see and toy around with the camera in person, if you like what you see and feel the price is fair get one or if you don't like it then don't buy one and look elsewhere. Also see if Rod has any demos that he will let you try out if the field.

Richard M. Coda
8-Aug-2010, 10:49
I do know of photomark. Rod Klukas the large format specialist actually is the one who turned me on to the Arca. And he is the one who would be selling me the camera.

Where have I heard this before? Oh, wait... it happened to me... three times! :)

Rod's a great guy.

Good luck and I know you will enjoy your Arca!

Frank Petronio
8-Aug-2010, 11:49
Ditto to what Robert Fisher said. I can appreciate the Arca having owned them too, but the cost-quality-weight equation makes them the sort of item better acquired by wealthy hobbyists, the kind of people who collect titanium bicycles and obscure cars.

The weight and bulk of a Sinar is only a bit more and you can actually find parts and accessories. For the cost of an entry level 4x5 Arca F, you can get a complete mint 8x10 and 4x5 Sinar outfit.

They are nice cameras but they aren't that much nicer.

KyledeC
8-Aug-2010, 13:31
Thank you all very much for the advice! I am currently a junior in college working on my bachelor's degree in photography, so if I do end up buying the Arca it's going to take some saving. And I'm also gonna have to sell some more photographs to justify spending that kind of money :) But you all provided me with insightful information that is very much appreciated.

jb7
8-Aug-2010, 14:06
I've never regretted buying an Arca, never regretted returning a rented Sinar.

If only I was a dentist, I'd buy another one-

Darren H
8-Aug-2010, 17:00
You know Frank still has an older Arca-Swiss for sale in the for sale section. No it aint the F-Field but its still Arca. Now seeing is you have a Sinar you might consider a lightweight wooden field camera as a combo to go with the heavier Sinar for a lot cheaper than the F-Field.

And you might also consider my route of a Discovery and add a folding rail. It is 95% of the camera, only 10% larger, but 50% or more cheaper.

KyledeC
8-Aug-2010, 17:04
That is a great idea Darren, thank you. I am going to look into it!

Darren H
8-Aug-2010, 17:17
That is a great idea Darren, thank you. I am going to look into it!

Glad to help. The Discovery is a great camera. The 171mm standards are a smidge bigger than the 141 rear 110 front on the current F-field but the slight increase in bulk is worth it for the reduced price.

Remember the Discovery as it shipped had a non-folding rail but add in the folding (or really the telescopic too) really makes it a great field camera.

Especially if you add the adapter to a smaller lens board like the Linhof or the 110 Arca boards. Finally if you like lenses wider than 135 you will want the bag bellows. Speaking of bellows, I have the regular, wide angle vinyl bag, and the wide angle leather bellows too. The leather wide angle is by far the best of the three. It is useful with any lens upto a 210mm and is a much better bellows than the vinyl.

Now a used Discovery, lensboard adapter, folding rail and a bag bellows will set you back $1500-1800 depending on what you can find used, but that is a significant savings over an F-Field.

You can see some write-ups I did about using the Discovery and some images with various bellows on my large format blog.

http://thetravelingcamera.blogspot.com/search/label/Arca-Swiss%20Discovery

Frank Petronio
8-Aug-2010, 17:19
I'd love to sell the older Arca but... actually to be honest, a 171mm Arca Swiss -- either the older or the later F series -- is just as bulky as a Sinar Norma or F. The base can be smaller than the Sinar but the frames are actually a good inch larger all the way around. And frankly holding both in hand, the Arca is lighter... by a little bit. Not a lot.

To me at least, they seem close enough in bulk-weight to say, why bother? And with the price of a decent Sinar F hovering under $300, you'd have to want to waste money -- you'd have to be working for the government -- to buy an Arca for 3x to 15x more.

Now if you want a 141mm with Orbix it will be a thing of beauty, no question. But if you're borrowing money to buy it, don't. That's stupid debt. It really is a luxury you give yourself after you've "made it".

It won't help you get a better picture, no matter how hard you rationalize. Or to look at it another way, of all the great and famous photographs you've studied and grown to love, how many have been made with a $5000 Arca? Something between Zero and 0.001%.

If you haven't noticed, I like playing Devil's Advocate. But the advice to go with a super-light field camera as a counter to your Sinar should be an interesting experiment.

The nice thing is you can buy a $500 Tachihara or a $800 Chamonix and if you tire of it, you can break even reselling it. Do your homework and be patient....

KyledeC
8-Aug-2010, 17:23
Wow that was extremely helpful Darren. It was also nice to see all the different images of the camera, thank you.

KyledeC
8-Aug-2010, 17:47
And Frank I couldn't agree with you more. It would be a very nice luxury, but definitely not a necessity. The only reason that I have even given the camera a thought is because of the fact that it would be so much easier to backpack with, and it has more movements than a typical field camera. I photograph nature, and I will go out for days backpacking and photographing. And the weight and bulk of my Sinar can be very frustrating and painful. But I am going to give it some major thought, because like you said a high priced camera won't help me get a better picture. I am going to continue doing research and saving. Thank you Frank.

Frank Petronio
8-Aug-2010, 18:45
http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/reviews.htm

This is older but still accurate, Kerry carefully figured out some optimal backpacking configurations. The best value in an ultralight is going to be a used Tachihara or Ikeda type camera, $500 if you're patient and lucky. But with such a light camera you have to use light lenses, and so on....

Tim Meisburger
8-Aug-2010, 19:22
Regarding Franks comment, I've got an Ikeda, and it is very light, but when you add in the film holders, tripod, lenses, filters, one degree spot and all the other assorted doo dads, the camera itself is a relatively small percentage of the weight you will be carrying.

Here is my advice, for what it is worth. Use the camera you have, or another that fits your budget and needs. Buy or make a box for your equipment that allows easy and fast access and fit that box to a good pack frame, and have at it. Think of all the weight they carried in the old days. You're a young fellow, and should easily carry 30-35 lbs all day up and down mountains with a good rigid pack frame. That will be all your equipment and enough camping gear for summer trips. Add fifteen pounds and you're ready for any season.

Forget the weight. Its your willingness to do whatever it takes that will allow you to get the shots that no one else can. Someone once said you have to suffer for your art...

Cheers, Tim

Rust Never Sleeps
8-Aug-2010, 23:47
Ditto to what Robert Fisher said. I can appreciate the Arca having owned them too, but the cost-quality-weight equation makes them the sort of item better acquired by wealthy hobbyists, the kind of people who collect titanium bicycles and obscure cars.

The weight and bulk of a Sinar is only a bit more and you can actually find parts and accessories. For the cost of an entry level 4x5 Arca F, you can get a complete mint 8x10 and 4x5 Sinar outfit.

They are nice cameras but they aren't that much nicer.


It's been a while since I priced cameras, so here goes. Some popular models.

Arca-Swiss F-Classic Field 4X5 Compact: $4149.00 + $738.00 for geared Orbix
Ebony 45S: $2795.00
Ebony 45SU: $4295.00
K.B. Canham DLC 4X5: $2595.00
K.B. Canham Wood 4X5: $2895.00
Linhof Master Technika Classic 4X5: $7195.00
Linhof Master Technika 3000 4X5: $6795.00
Linhof Technikardan 45S: $4995.00
Sinar P2 4x5 Camera: $5939.00
Toyo 45AII: $2277.00
Toyo VX125R Basic (Matte Black Finish): $4968.00

With this partial list in mind, I don't think it is fair to pick on Arca-Swiss for selling expensive cameras. Are any of these cameras worth the asking price?? Are you getting your monies worth?? Just depends on the buyer I guess. Some will, some won't. I won't spend that much on a technika but another person will not think twice whether they have a Buffett/Gates bank account or not.

Aren't top line digital SLRs still demanding $5000.00 price tags only to be worth little a few years later. At least a person who spends five grand on a Arca-Swiss has a camera that will last forever as evident by old models on the used market and will not be outdated after a few years and have to be replaced.

A lot of people on this forum and elsewhere have the cameras listed above and got them for their precision and design to better their photography. So I think it is unfair to label them "wealthy hobbyists" who dine on caviar daily, drink Westvleteren 12 and Rochefort 10[<-me like] beers, sip on Lagavulin 16 [<-me like] and Laphroaig 18 [<-me like] single malts, fly first class to "exotic" locations to photograph, hang with Michael Fatali coming up with cute names for their latest photographs, ride ten grand bikes, smoke Cubans with Arnold on the Cali coast, play Stradivari violins for fun while strategies are thought about for their next shoot, go through da top notch lady models like socks, all while contemplating how good greed is with Gordon Gekko. :D

Like I said in my previous post, I got lucky and got my Arca before the price increases. Hopefully the camera lasts me a long time before I need to replace it. Back then a base model F-Field was $3000.00-$3300.00. If buying new today I would probably past on the camera unless I found a used one for a good price or I would get one without the orbix. Maybe a Ebony 45S or 45SU or maybe something else, who knows. A lot of the good cameras cost a lot.

Darren H
9-Aug-2010, 03:11
Do you mean hike with or backpack with it? If you mean hike, then I think an Arca with a folding rail is a good set up. If you mean backpacking into the mountains for several days, I have to say I would be tempted to go with a wooden field camera like a Chamonix. At 3 lbs and a small wooden square it would be much easier to backpack.

The Arca's are outstanding but still bulky. Not many camera backpacks will fit them and if you put it into a big pack it's awkward shape fills your pack quickly. I am not saying it cannot be done, but as a backpacking camera I think a small square box would be much easier to work with simply from a bulkiness perspective.

As a nature or landscape photographer I doubt you need more movements than a wooden field camera has. Or maybe a better way to say it is when photographing landscapes I never need extreme movements. Just a little tilt or rise.

Darren H
9-Aug-2010, 03:14
It's been a while since I priced cameras, so here goes. Some popular models.

Arca-Swiss F-Classic Field 4X5 Compact: $4149.00 + $738.00 for geared Orbix
Ebony 45S: $2795.00
Ebony 45SU: $4295.00
K.B. Canham DLC 4X5: $2595.00
K.B. Canham Wood 4X5: $2895.00
Linhof Master Technika Classic 4X5: $7195.00
Linhof Master Technika 3000 4X5: $6795.00
Linhof Technikardan 45S: $4995.00
Sinar P2 4x5 Camera: $5939.00
Toyo 45AII: $2277.00
Toyo VX125R Basic (Matte Black Finish): $4968.00

t.


When I see this list and think how even a 7D goes for $1700, I think a Discovery becomes all that much more of a deal since for that money or less you get a much better camera. Plus you would have to spend much more on Canon L glass to make use of the 7D's packed sensor. Where a few used lenses under $500 will see you through years of sheet film.

A Tachihara at $700 and a Chamonix at $900 or so even more of a deal.

evan clarke
9-Aug-2010, 05:13
Depending on what focal lengths you wish to use, Shen Hao has a beaytiful little camera which will handle up to a 180 and sells for about $650.00. I have 5 Arcas but own one of these Shen Haos, have a 150 Nikkor on it, pack it with 3 filmholders, a small loupe, a compact meter and a light dark cloth. The whole package is only about 8-9 pounds and is a setup I can grab if I really need to go for a long walk. I think I can make most reasonable photographs which interest me with a 150. The model is Shen-Hao TFC45-IIB and I bought mine from Badger Graphic...EC

Frank Petronio
9-Aug-2010, 05:37
The price of the cameras for most people reflects buying used, I agree that new retail prices for LF cameras is stratospheric. When you talk about real numbers, you see that you can pick a used but excellent Sinar Norma for $500 or a P2 for under $1200. Wheras Arca and Ebony prices really don't deflate that much. That says a lot about the desirability of those cameras, and they deserve it, they are well-crafted marvels.

But they still aren't worth going into debt over. I have no problem with what you do with your money but telling a kid that he needs to take a loan out to get a $3K+ Arca in order to do successful landscape photography is flat-out bad advice.

My point is that a lot of the demand for Ebonies and Arcas is based on the fact that they are newer, in production, and finely designed and crafted... they are the cool cameras to have nowadays, like a hot Audi or trophy wife or... but when you look at the utility and practicality of it all, lugging a slightly heavier Sinar (or whatever) or slightly clumsier Shen or Chamonix, bought for a fraction of the upscale camera's price, is where we should be pointing this guy.

Ivan J. Eberle
9-Aug-2010, 07:08
I'm on an extended road trip where I'm extensively hiking around the Northern Rockies.

I brought my Meridian 45CE (later prototype evolved from the 45B) that folds up into a protective metal box like a Linhof Technika. It has an accurate rangefinder, is tough as nails, weighs about 5.5 lbs, and cost 1/20th used what a new Linhof costs. This Meridian can be set up and shot in under a minute in fast-changing light, as it doesn't require GG focusing with its rangefinder. (RF makes Grafmatics a lot more useful, incidentally.)

I also brought a Sinar Norma, which I bought this year because it has a bag bellows option, and would give me back falls for my Nikkor 90mm f/8 (besides focusing more easily with it's fresnel GG). It was also tremendous value and a bargain and is beautiful. It's relatively easy and fast to use, for a monorail. That said, I haven't touched it yet this trip as I haven't required the moves it's capable of that the Meridian isn't, shooting landscapes.

Oh, might mention too that I've got maybe half as much invested in both these cameras combined than what even a used beater Arca Field would've cost.

Brian Ellis
9-Aug-2010, 07:51
With most of those cameras on Rust N. Sleep's list, you aren't paying for that much better camera, you're paying for European wages, benefits, vacations, pensions, value added taxes, universal health care, etc., all of which are great things for the people who enjoy them but aren't so great for buyers of the products those people make. Then add a distributor's mark-up and a retailer's markup to all that and you end up with a $1,000 camera that costs $6,000+.

Completely apart from how much money I have or don't have, unless I was a pro and could write off the cost against my taxes I wouldn't even consider buying any of the cameras on that list new except the Canham and I actually wouldn't consider it either, I'd buy a Chamonix or Shen Hao for $900 instead and dare anyone using a much more expensive camera to make better photographs that are directly attributable to their camera vs my camera.

Darren H
9-Aug-2010, 09:26
but when you look at the utility and practicality of it all, lugging a slightly heavier Sinar (or whatever) or slightly clumsier Shen or Chamonix, bought for a fraction of the upscale camera's price, is where we should be pointing this guy.

Agreed.

Especially important is the point not to go into debt over a camera. Be smart buy used and cheaper.

With already having a Sinar for the studio and roadside a wooden box like a Tachihara, Shen-Hao or Chamonix is more economical and a better pair. If you get the Arca, I'd sell off the Sinar. No need for two 4x5 rail cameras, especially as a student on a budget.

As a counterpoint to that though is I am amazed by what people have and spend on stuff. Every week I am at Costco I see people with big hand carts getting 40,50 and 60" TV's. $500 for putters or fishing rods seem wide spread these days. A D700 is over $2k and your lenses for it will probably run $1200+ per. So maybe dropping $1200-1800 is acceptable for a good rail camera.

A used Discovery can be had for about the price of a Chamonix and if you hotrod it over time with parts it will do all of what the Field does. And again, if you get the Arca, cash out the Sinar for the folding rail.

Be smart and good luck!

Frank Petronio
9-Aug-2010, 10:46
There is a nice Discovery on eBay right now and they are usually the best value, all the quality of Arca-Swiss without the geared front focusing (right?) which you don't really need anyway. If it goes in the $600 to $800 range it's a good deal.

I'm done beating this dead horse ;-)

KyledeC
9-Aug-2010, 10:51
Thank you all for your generous help! I do mean backpacking for days on end :/ . I have thought about buying a wooden field camera in addition to my Sinar. And most of you make a good point that doing that would be the smartest decision. And I would just buy a field camera and get rid of the rail, but the truth is that I use the movements that my rail offers on a regular basis. So what do you guys think about this, would it be smarter to buy a separate field camera in addition to my Sinar? Or save the money that would be spent on the field camera including the accessories that come along with it and eventually sell the Sinar for the Arca. I guess what I am worried about is that in buying a field camera and then owning two cameras that each use there own accessories, and after doing that for about a year would I have spent pretty much the same as what I would spend on a used Arca, and for reference I just found a used Arca Field w/ bellows, extension rail and lens board for $2200. Now $2200 is not something that I can afford all at once, I would have to save and sell the Sinar. But do you guys think the cost of owning two cameras would be equal to owning one Arca?

Thank you all again for your helpful thoughts! I very much appreciate it :)

Bob McCarthy
9-Aug-2010, 11:17
I think the only thing I could offer is: don't equate the cost of the camera with the quality of the taken photography. There is no connection. I've owned 2 late model Linhofs and the resulting photos don't look one wit better than the used Sinar F I bought on the cheap.

Don't get me wrong, I love photo "jewelry" too. I've bought my share along the way. Im assuming value is more important at this point.

You do know how to fold the optical bench to nest between the standards don't you. I carry a Sinar F, 2 lenses, 5 holders. spot meter in a shoulder bag w/o any issue. It could be easily strapped at the top of a frame pack with room for tent, bag , etc..

bob

KyledeC
9-Aug-2010, 11:24
Hey Bob, Ya I have tried that. I just have not figured out a good way to secure the camera once its in my shoulder bag. How do you do it?

Bob McCarthy
9-Aug-2010, 12:04
Hey Bob, Ya I have tried that. I just have not figured out a good way to secure the camera once its in my shoulder bag. How do you do it?

I have an old kelty frame that i removed the bag from. Bottom is tent, just above is a small duffle with Bag and some rain clothes. Thats about 1/2 the frame. My Lowe Reporter stacks on top held in with straps. Camera goes in center pocket of bag with rail extending across all three pockets. The cover easily covers all the equipment.

Need a photo? Let me know.

Next trip Colorado in Oct, if all works out at work.

This is for reasonable overnight w/o need of hot meals. Day trips are with shoulder bags only.

bob

Bob McCarthy
9-Aug-2010, 12:14
The reason used Sinar cameras are so cheap, is they were too successful. They won the view camera wars and were the dominate brand used by many if not most professionals studios. Arca was relatively rare.

So when digital took over, there was a flood of good used equipment on the market. A flood that still exists today as the market for view cameras shrank along the way.

It's only the scarcity of arca that gives it a leg up pricewise. Both cameras are equally excellent, maybe with a slightly different emphasis.

Who in there right mind would buy a "new" monorail today unless they wanted photo jewelry.

Bob

Darren H
9-Aug-2010, 12:47
Thank you all for your generous help! I do mean backpacking for days on end :/ . ........
and for reference I just found a used Arca Field w/ bellows, extension rail and lens board for $2200. Now $2200 is not something that I can afford all at once, I would have to save and sell the Sinar. But do you guys think the cost of owning two cameras would be equal to owning one Arca?

Thank you all again for your helpful thoughts! I very much appreciate it :)

$2200 is still a lot of coin in my book regardless of working or student. The Arca-Swiss is nice but as others have stated other cameras are nice and more than capable. I think if you got a Tachihara or Shen Hao it comes in with a couple of lens boards at under $800. Then spend the rest of your money on film and go backpack.

Badger Graphic has a Shen-Hao PTB that is a copy of the Chamonix 45n1 for $650 new. It weighs 3 lbs. That could be all you need because for a field camera I do not think you need many if any accessories. Maybe 1-2 lens boards or if you like very wide angles a bag bellows (the Chamonix fits the Shen-Hao). That gives you a very featured camera that is super light and very easy to pack.

If you want to think about an Arca-Swiss that Discovery on eBay would be a decent buy. Then you can say you use an Arca. Then sell your Sinar and take that cash to get a folding rail. Then look at getting an adapter to a smaller lens board when you have more cash. Until then just use one lens. You will have a have a great Arca setup.

But I think you may find that while it can be backpacked-its still bulky. The setup Bob carries can work but I have to think putting a small folded up She-Hao into a regular backpack sounds alot lighter and easier. If I backpack I limit myself to one night in the backcountry as all that camera gears is bulky. I skip the tent and take a bivy sack and skip the stove and eat cold food. It works but I gotta tell you I think about a 3lb lightweight box as what I would want to backpack with rather than a rail camera. I know others do it but frankly I have carried 70 lb loads of climbing gear on trips so now that it is photography gear I'd sure like it to be 45 lbs.

Even Arca guru Jack Dykinga used a wodden field camera to backpack with accrording to his book on LF Landscape Photography (which is a great book!)

Mark Carstens
9-Aug-2010, 13:43
Now a used Discovery, lensboard adapter, folding rail and a bag bellows will set you back $1500-1800 depending on what you can find used, but that is a significant savings over an F-Field.
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Or, at that price point, you might consider this Arca F-Line Metric offered on the FS forum...
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=65175

FWIW, I've owned a Discovery and I have been using an Arca 8x10 Model C (older version) for some time... I also own a Sinar 5x7. Clearly, as has already been established, there are trade-offs between economy and user-friendliness (just made up a word :p ) when comparing Arca to Sinar. Also, if you do your homework and due diligence, then buying a used Arca from a reliable seller would likely cut your costs significantly.

In the end, it depends on your priorities (and biases) with respect to how you work in the field. I've attached a couple of images showing how I pack the Arca 8x10 on a 15cm (~6 inch) rail. It's a snap. I'm still working on how to pack the Sinar into the field with similar efficiency...and that's a work in progress that my buddy Bob will eventually help me figure out (shh... don't tell him...I want it to be a surprise.) :)

Hope that doesn't muddy the waters.

~Mark

Bob McCarthy
9-Aug-2010, 14:14
Mark,

Hope your summer is productive.

Carrying an 8x10 monorail on your back is above and beyond. I believe in wheels. With wheels, there is no weight issue. I suppose one can take an anvil into the field with wheels. My featherlight setup is a softside wheeled cooler lined with fleese-cloth covered 2 inch memory foam. Unlike most wheeled setups, this one is very light and easy to lift in and out of a vehicle. But the small wheels limits me to sidewalks, hard surface paths.

But I can get the 8x10 P into lots of places.

I still am working out something more HD for serious backcountry. Something that works with Sinar boards/shutter for barrel lenses.

bob

Rick Russell
9-Aug-2010, 14:29
I have what for me is the best of all world's in terms of camera. I will be taking it to the Eastern Sierra next week to backpack, with most of my time either at destinations in which the trailhead starts at above 10,000 feet or above 8000 feet but hiking 6-8 miles to my destination. My Ebony SV45U2 weighs more than the lightest wooden field cameras, but it has all the movements I need and is able to focus my 75mm and 450mm lenses. I will place it in my full pack next week and hit the trail, knowing that it will allow me to accomplish everything I might need. The downside of my camera is its weight, which could be up to 3 lbs. more than the lightest wooden field camera.

YMMV

Rick Russell
richardrussell-1@ca.rr.com

KyledeC
10-Aug-2010, 10:27
Ya I guess for now a field camera would be the best way to go. I am definitely gonna look into the Shen Hao! Thank you everybody for your help :) And Bob I would love to see a picture of how you pack that camera! Because being able to do that would be very helpful while I am still looking for a field. Thank you all again!

Bob McCarthy
10-Aug-2010, 12:02
Give me a few days and I'll gladly post it.

bob

CHT
11-Aug-2010, 09:25
Hello All,

I recently got a Discovery and I'm thrilled. Yes, not as compact as a true field camera but still seems light enough.

This is probably a question more for Darren.

I'm looking for a good pack to put the Discovery in. It looks like the Photo Trekker (which looked great) is no longer made (both B&H and Adorama in NYC--where I am--don't have it anymore).

I'd like to keep it on its non-folding rail as I want to keep its quick set-up time. I shoot alot on the streets and quick breakdown/set up is essential.

Can anyone suggest a another good bag that has the space so I don't have to completely break down the Camera?

Thanks,

Colin.

Darren H
11-Aug-2010, 09:44
Hello All,

I recently got a Discovery and I'm thrilled. Yes, not as compact as a true field camera but still seems light enough.

This is probably a question more for Darren.

I'm looking for a good pack to put the Discovery in. It looks like the Photo Trekker (which looked great) is no longer made (both B&H and Adorama in NYC--where I am--don't have it anymore).

I'd like to keep it on its non-folding rail as I want to keep its quick set-up time. I shoot alot on the streets and quick breakdown/set up is essential.

Can anyone suggest a another good bag that has the space so I don't have to completely break down the Camera?

Thanks,

Colin.

Congratz on the Discovery! I really like mine and I think you will find you are getting the Arca-Swiss experience at a fraction of the regular price.

When I had the regular 30cm nonfolding rail I used a LowePro Super-Trekker. That pack was big enough to hold the camera. Note the frame poked the back out a little but it worked.

I hated the Super Trekker. As Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons would say....Worst. Pack. Ever. It is not a backpack, it is luggage with straps. Way too heavy (13 lbs EMPTY)and way uncomforatble. I woud never want to use it in the city as you will be bumping people wearing it and they will be tripping over it when you set it down. I sold mine and never want to see it again.

The new LowePro Trekker 600 might work. I recently got the Trekker 400 and it is too small for the nonfolding rail and could be bigger for even a folded camera. It does carry all the extras well and carries them well. Pack seems lighter than my old Photo-Trekker did.

For use in town, if you got the case the Discovery came with I would say that is the best way to carry it it on a nonfolding rail. Holds the camera with lens attached. Grab it and it goes right on the tripod. Small footprint so it will fit under the tripod too. has enough storage for an extra lens, film, darkcloth, meter. Carrys ok for a shoulder bag.

If you did not get the bag, I'd maybe suggest a soft sided cooler. Put the camera upside down in the center and two thin bags on either side with extras. I think that would work well and not scream camera either. Although it might scream beer, and that could attract the worng element. ;-) See some of Ken Lee's posts for examples of what he does with coolers and soft sided bags.

And even in town the folding rail takes just a few seconds to use. Fantastic (albiet expensive) accessory that I highly reccommend. I only use the old non folding rail when I need more than 30cm of the folding rail.

Hope that helps, check out my blog linked below for more info on the Discovery and feel free to PM or contact me with any questions.

CHT
11-Aug-2010, 11:42
Hi Darren,

Thanks for the quick reply!

I did manage to get the Discovery pack (and the wide angle bellows as well!) along with the camera. It's a little wobbly and doesn't really hold the weight THAT well. I should have mentioned that I'm coming from that and looking for something a little more supportive...

I'll check out the dimensions on the Pro 600 again. I did see that but didn't think it would fit.

I think I DID read your posts when I was hemming & hawing on buying the Discovery earlier this year. Very informative and definitely put a big check in the Plus column for me.

Cheers,

Colin.

Darren H
12-Aug-2010, 10:43
Hi Darren,

that I'm coming from that and looking for something a little more supportive...

I'll check out the dimensions on the Pro 600 again. I did see that but didn't think it would fit.


Cheers,

Colin.

I have yet to see a Pro 600 in person but the listed internal dimensions are 14" wide and 7.5" deep which should hold the Discovery with the rail running across the inside width of the pack. At 7.5" deep the back may bow slightly but it will be less than my not so Super Trekker did. I think it should be do-able. Check it out if a retailer has one.

The listed height is about 19" which would still allow you some room for lenses and other goodies.

I find that the two side pockets on the Pro 400 will hold regular film holders (something like 3 on one side and 4 on the other) but not a Quickload box. The small top pockets will hold a few filters as its about the size for a paperback but not much bigger.

In the short time I have had the Trekker Pro 400 I have found it to carry better than my Photo Trekker AW did and significantly better than the not so Super Trekker AW II did. I would imagine the Trekker 600 to be better for bigger and have even thought of moving up to one myself. So if you get one report back on it.

siloseven
12-Aug-2010, 12:59
I've recently bought a Lowepro 650 AW shoulder bag to carry my arca about in. I decided against a backpack as I'll mainly be in cities and not walking all that far from the car. It's a big bag and is heavy when full but it's manageable and I like how everything is readily accessible once it's open.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4885655393_a1e11f85d5_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4885653513_1dc2f7cf18_z.jpg

jb7
12-Aug-2010, 13:09
That's a good looking bag, but, I looked it up-
7.7 kilos?
please tell me that's a typo...
And where does the tripod go?

I've been through a good few carrying strategies, and eventually found a pretty good one.

I'll photograph it tomorrow-

siloseven
12-Aug-2010, 13:23
No, it's nothing like 7kgs when empty. It only weighs about 9-10kgs when full of gear.

I carry the tripod in separate bag which goes over the other shoulder. Keeps me reasonably well balanced if a little overloaded.

jb7
13-Aug-2010, 10:10
http://a.imageshack.us/img32/7316/carryinganarcajb77724.jpg




Like everyone else, I've been through a few bags in my time-
For ease of setup, this is the best I've come up with.
I've hiked this in the Mourne Mountains, and used it around town, works fine.

Of course, it won't suit everyone, particularly not the requirements of the original poster-

A second bag is needed too, for all the other bits, though something like a messenger bag should be enough- depending on how many lenses and and filters and holders- and other stuff- you need.
A photographer's jacket might also work-

I haven't tested this to destruction, so don't go blaming me if you do-
I'd recommend an extra strap, and a stronger strap too-
Using an extra strap, you can carry it like a backpack, but the main reason is for safety- I've had plastic strap clips break before, but under much heavier load than this.

Of course, this will only work with a lightweight tripod.

The bag is a Gill Drypack, designed for gear stowage on boats-
it's also available in a 50L size, which might be better.

A second bag could go over the tripod legs, and that should be able to keep the rain out, but I haven't got around to getting a second one yet.

The main advantage here is speed of setup- the camera is ready for use almost as soon as you set it on the ground and remove the cover.

As I said, it won't suit everyone- not even me at times- but then, I don't think the perfect bag exists-

rdenney
13-Aug-2010, 10:40
And with the price of a decent Sinar F hovering under $300, you'd have to want to waste money -- you'd have to be working for the government -- to buy an Arca for 3x to 15x more.

Okay, Frank, now you are starting to tick me off.

First, you tell me that buying my Sinar system was good financial decision-making, when I was clearly intending to buy something that would allow me to show off, especially to chicks. After all, my Cambo was fine as long as I didn't mind not being able to focus my shortest lenses or fit it into the back of my Subaru (L.L. Bean edition, of course).

And I am a government employee, and wasting money was my primary goal. Heck, I thought buying that Swiss-made Sinar was just the ticket. Now, I have to hang my head in shame. I didn't overspend. Oh, the shame!

Rick "thinking a search on brand names on ebay will identify which has the best availability of cheap parts and accessories" Denney

rdenney
13-Aug-2010, 10:52
So, the OP is looking for a back-packable addition to a Sinar, and nobody has recommended the Shen-Hao XPO? With the quadruple-extension bed, it will collapse tighter and more quickly than a Sinar, weight less, and cost little enough to avoid having to sell the Sinar.

And it will save more money for the OP, because he already has bellows and mounted lenses that can be used on the XPO without modification.

Rick "whose Sinar F is pretty compact, except for all the goodies that go along with it" Denney

RK_LFteacher
14-Aug-2010, 12:26
The Tenba shootout Large is deep enough for the 6" rail on the bottom of the collapsed
discovery body.
Lots more room and great harness as well.
Rod

Darren H
14-Aug-2010, 17:52
Like everyone else, I've been through a few bags in my time-
For ease of setup, this is the best I've come up with.
I've hiked this in the Mourne Mountains, and used it around town, works fine.

Of course, it won't suit everyone, particularly not the requirements of the original poster-

A second bag is needed too, for all the other bits, though something like a messenger bag should be enough- depending on how many lenses and and filters and holders- and other stuff- you need.
A photographer's jacket might also work-

I haven't tested this to destruction, so don't go blaming me if you do-
I'd recommend an extra strap, and a stronger strap too-
Using an extra strap, you can carry it like a backpack, but the main reason is for safety- I've had plastic strap clips break before, but under much heavier load than this.

Of course, this will only work with a lightweight tripod.

The bag is a Gill Drypack, designed for gear stowage on boats-
it's also available in a 50L size, which might be better.

A second bag could go over the tripod legs, and that should be able to keep the rain out, but I haven't got around to getting a second one yet.

The main advantage here is speed of setup- the camera is ready for use almost as soon as you set it on the ground and remove the cover.

As I said, it won't suit everyone- not even me at times- but then, I don't think the perfect bag exists-


That is one very unique way to carry a camera! Like it. May want a better shoulder strap like off a golf bag but that might be the way to photograph downtown.

Alex Smith
16-Aug-2010, 08:57
I purchased an Arca 4x5 Field only a few years ago from B&H for $2400. It was probably my shortest-lived camera purchase. I have regretted selling all of the Ebony cameras I have owned before or since, but thankfully I have another 45S on the way. A lot of people like the 4x5 Field (Dykinga performed a great service for that model), but the current asking price seems extremely exaggerated. I would consider one for half of what it costs now.